Restaurant Refuses To Serve TSA Agents
from the seems-a-bit-extreme dept
Apparently, a Seattle area restaurant (right near the airport) has announced that it's refusing to serve TSA agents in protest of the way the TSA treats passengers who wish to fly. While I think the whole TSA security setup is terrible, an invasion of privacy and does little if anything to actually stop terrorism, I do think this is a bad move. The restaurant, obviously, is free to refuse service to whomever they choose (within the law, of course), but the TSA agents aren't the ones making the policies here. I'm really not sure what kind of statement this really makes. We've already seen that many TSA agents themselves are fed up with the new rules and are upset at the way people treat them. I'm not sure that treating those agents worse is really any form of a solution. The problem is the folks at the top.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Filed Under: frustration, restaurants, tsa
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No way to affect the top
If it is made increasingly uncomfortable/undesirable to work for the TSA, to the point where it becomes difficult to hire people, then perhaps the "Top" will realize something needs to change.
I've begun to take the same attitude with Bell in Canada. The employees need to be treated like outcasts from society until they quit, forcing Bell to cahnge tactics.
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On top of that, I'd be more inclined to eat at an establishment that had that as a stated policy. Even if I wasn't actually hungry at the time.
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If you're -this- pissed off at the TSA, then you stopped flying last year.
I applaud this move by citizens who have -had enough-.
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"Look, the people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not... fuck with us."
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Frankly, I'm with the folks that say, maybe it would just be more pleasant to eat somewhere near the airport that doesn't have TSA agents sitting near you. They should have a private cafeteria.
No terrorists in their cafeteria, noone profiting off the dissolution of our civil liberties in our restaurants..
.. except for cops, of course, who will get a discount.
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Re: No way to affect the top
You know full well a large government agency isn't going to give a shit about its employees or their perception in the public eye. If they did their reprehensible policies would've changed a year ago. Taking it out on the people caught in the middle is cowardly and smacks self congratulatory ego stroking public grandstanding. How about taking time out of work to go down to TSA headquarters and picket the ones who are to blame?
Oh wait, you've gotta feed YOUR familes....
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If it really gets so bad that your hyperbolic "ability to feed their families" begins to be affected, they leave the job for another.
If it becomes too difficult for TSA to hire/retain employees, they will be forced to change policy.
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I'm saying that most of you are attempting to paint TSA agents with a single broad brush as if they have a say in the final outcome of the law. Should they simply just up and leave their jobs? How about a TSA officer with 12 years into a 20 year career after which he draws a pension? Also, sorry about "feeding their families" bit, what was a I thinking? a man should just up and leave his job based on a law that isn't exactly directing people into a fucking gas chamber and hope that his rent, utilities, kids college tuition, etc will come from some vague benefactor. Because God knows that the law can't be tweaked to be less invasive, that'll never happen. Best quit now to appease the rich suburban white-breads who have time to monday-morning quarterback.
This whole thread reminds me of the level discourse you'll see on a youtube video comment thread when a cop does something construed as invading someones rights. Suddenly the entire profession of law enforcement are filled with overcompensating jack-booted racist thugs who should locked up. For site that usually has reasonable intelligent people frequenting the comments, some of you seem to lose all sense of logic.
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Heh, Nazi types hate to have people reminded of their past.
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He must have gotten a really early start: The TSA is only 9 years old.
Also, sorry about "feeding their families" bit, what was a I thinking?
You were probably thinking about all the career criminals that are also just "feeding their families".
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I recall something that goes like "those who fail to learn from history...".
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While feeding your family is important it doesn't take precedence over the fundamental human rights every person deserves to be respected. They have a moral responsibility that they are not upholding. If they wanted to keep their jobs and all stood united against taking away our rights the law would be force to be changed. The TSA can't fire everyone. If even a 3rd of their workforce stood up for our rights the TSA would be crippled and a statement as such would have profound meaning.
Our founding fathers are probably rolling over in their graves at what we Americans are forced to endure in our modern lives.
"Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security." -Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Re: Re: Re: No way to affect the top
Yes, because no one can ever be like Nazis, ever. /sarcasm
Congrats, stupid.
The fact that you called me stupid for making a particularly apt analogy completely negates any chance you had at gaining credibility.
I'm saying that most of you are attempting to paint TSA agents with a single broad brush as if they have a say in the final outcome of the law.
We're not discussing the law. We're discussing TSA policies.
Should they simply just up and leave their jobs?
That's one option. Striking is another. If most TSA agents refused to complete unconstitutional searches for a day, that would pretty much lay this shit to bed right there.
How about a TSA officer with 12 years into a 20 year career after which he draws a pension?
What about a career soldier with no other marketable skills or options? Should he have refused to loan Jews onto trains? I mean, it's not exactly directing people into fucking gas chambers and, dammit, a man needs to feed his family! /sarcasm
Best quit now to appease the rich suburban white-breads who have time to monday-morning quarterback.
Wow, so you're upset that I made a Nazi analogy and yet you think it's okay to spew racism and classicism all over the thread? What was that you said about credibility earlier?
This whole thread reminds me of the level discourse you'll see on a youtube video comment thread when a cop does something construed as invading someones rights.
Yes, your comment is reminiscent of that level of discourse.
For site that usually has reasonable intelligent people frequenting the comments, some of you seem to lose all sense of logic.
It's not logical to ask that TSA workers - who hate these policies just as much as we do - fucking do something? When they're in the best position to effect a change? Seriously?
And you think I'm stupid? Wow.
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You might think this is falling down the slippery slope, but there's no reason your argument should be applied to TSA agents and not to Hitler's army. Your argument puts no limit on how unethical an action can be before feeding your family fails to justify it.
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Seriously man, if your job involves violating other people's fundamental rights or human dignity you should quit.
For instance all the guards involved in the current mistreatment of Private Bradley Manning are morally guilty of complicity in Human Rights violations. If they don't care that their job is to mentally destroy this person, then they're a bunch of sick f*cks, no better than the Nazi prison guards were.
One must know when to say "no". The current trend of obeying orders can only lead to one thing: fascism.
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wow.
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No, it's amazing that no matter how often it's explained, you still don't get the analogy.
TSA agents are just following orders, even though those orders are unlawful and contribute to a police state.
Nazis were just following orders, even thought those orders were unlawful and contributed to a police state.
If you still don't understand how TSA agents are like Nazis, then you need to sign up for literacy classes.
wow.
My sentiments exactly.
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Re: No way to affect the top
This reminds me of the BP spind doctors using the gasoline stations owner as folder, showing how it affected them because they were chained to a 10 year contract and couldn't just drop BP.
At the time my thought was "why do those people keep signing exclusive contracts for 10 years?".
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At the time my thought was "why do those people keep signing exclusive contracts for 10 years?".
I'd say it's a calculated risk. You get a franchise license to sell one of the largest oil producers in the world's fuel, and hope that the oil producer doesn't have a PR catastrophy in that time period. Usually it works out for you, but every now and then you roll snake eyes.
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Re: No way to affect the top
Abusing the low end guys isn't going to fix anything.
I'm sad about this, because I really LIKE the idea of abusing the low end guys as a way to fix things (after all, they are the ones abusing us!), but it's NOT going to change anything! All it's going to do is make the TSA guys at the gate even grumpier and less helpful than they were to start with.
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Yeah, some people will do anything for money: Lie, cheat, steal, sell drugs, torture, kill, even work for the TSA.
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When their table is ready, show them instead to the radiation room. The bypass option is that the head cook prods their loins with his special cutlery.
"MARVIN! We have a good one!"
Inevitably, they will strip to undergarment in order to be escorted out properly by the 70 or so ex green barets.
And that's when you hit them with the $10K charge clearly marked in their entrance ticket!!!
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Impressive.
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Feel free to talk to yourself. I'll try to scare up an old cell phone so you don't look quite as crazy as you are.
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Why do you hate artists so much?
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I rather think this is exactly a business model analysis (well, maybe not an analysis, but certainly a discussion). Here we have a monopoly, much like the old telephone and electric utilities with which a statistically large number of [flying] consumers must interact on a regular basis without a competitive option or alternative, other than to not fly. Management does not take into account customer satisfaction or treatment, which by significant accounts, is pretty awful.
So now the question becomes what tools at hand does the consumer possess to effect change or bring in competition besides finding an alternative mode of transportation or not traveling (not practical for many)? Although I tend to believe exploding bags of itching powder would prove personally satisfying, social ostrasization and thus employee exodus seems like a viable (but not likely widely adopted) tactic and thus worthy of discussion as a consumer tool. If it actually works (and I don't believe it will), *that* would be impressive.
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The rest of it is petty and childish.
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I had no idea there were other modes of travel.
Hey, everybody, this guy figured it out. He figured out how to get places without going through the TSA!!!
Speaking of petty and childish, I think that pretty much sums up your entire presence here.
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This happens everyday where businesses refuse who do business with people. Where is the outrage where it concerns normal citizens? The only reason everyone is outraged is because this time Federal employees are being targeted.
The TSA is going to be forced to change its policies when more businesses start acting this way.
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If your employer told you to go sneak into womens changerooms, would you?
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This may actually be a hoax but it still hasn't been confirmed one way or another.
http://www.saysuncle.com/2011/02/23/getting-back-at-tsa/
Where’s the cafe that refuses to serve the TSA?
http://www.elliott.org/blog/wheres-the-cafe-that-refuses-to-serve-the-tsa/
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I've worked with TSA agents
TSA agents behave like asses because they report to asses who were hired by asses. That restaurant has every right to refuse service to the people who've made air travel intolerable.
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Re: I've worked with TSA agents
>> TSA agents behave like asses because they report to asses who were hired by asses.
"It is said that power corrupts, but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power." - David Brin
http://abazoo.angelfire.com/quotes32.html
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No way to affect the top
apart from monopolistic practices, Fascism, and bad laws to protect the big guys only from competition.
we have the right to disagree... we have just been spoon feed for so long we tend to forget at times.
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big whoop
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TSA agents really have no complaint here.
To quote an articulate character, "What you want is irrelevant, what you have chosen is at hand."
It'd be great to see every restaurant, every shop, in every airport follow suit. Maybe then it would dawn on them that "just following orders" hasn't been considered a valid excuse for a long, long time.
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Someone has probably said this already, but...
The proper thing to do to send the right message is to refuse service to every congressman and senator who voted for either the TSA regulations, or in a broader sense, the Patriot Act in general, since only via the suspension of all rights via the Patriot Act is any of this even possible.
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Their defence
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I await the "performance art"
Buy some veggies at the wholesaler, set up at a farmers market in New York near Wall Street and don't sell to people in, say banking or with a net worth over X million.
Oh the youtube views of such 'art'.
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unintended consequences
The second option is stupid, but much more comfortable, very appealing to idiots, bullies and would-be police.
Do we really want to torment the A group and provoke the B group until the checkpoints are staffed by nothing but hardened B's?
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Re: unintended consequences
Third choice: Go on strike.
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Re: following orders
Kind of shines a different light on the poor helpless TSA workers.
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Nero Wolfe was careful who he broke bread with....
Just because it is done legally, these so-called screening procedures constitute assault. Before or after having to be "pornscanned" or grope searched by TSA officers, I certainly wouldn't want to eat with them.
For much the same reason, executioners used to wear hoods.
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But then again I'll have lots of spare money to frequent restaurants that don't serve our Airport security staff.
Buildings can be toppled when pushed from the outside, but if the base/foundation has rot too they will collapse so much faster.
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Nice misread of human nature/psychology, Tech Dorks
Either live out your values, or don't have values. It's really quite simple.
Why are tech-geeks so incredibly stupid about everything outside the world of "technology"? Especially human nature and psychology... ATTENTION GEEKS: simulated emotional responses due to the quasi-orgasm you feel at spying the latest iTampon or iCondom, that's not understanding human interpersonal exchange.
If people don't live according to values and quit jobs where they are asked to do inhumane things, we become destructive robotic slaves.
I guess that's enticing to a tech geek though. Kinda sounds like a shitty Robert Sawyer novel.
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Simple answer- Boycott the machine.
So why do we have this damned machine? I blame the company, their lobbyists, and their semi-immoral connections among top decision makers within the TSA and other government departments. But that doesn't really help us- after all, there's a reason it's called "business as usual". And blaming the TSA employees doesn't help- they're hardly to the level of the SS, and probably feel pretty shitty. Plus, America's a pretty fat, ugly nation. For ever "7+" they end up inspecting, there are gonna be dozens of ugly guys and gals.
SO WHAT SHOULD WE DO? Simple. If everyone were to demand a full body check, the policy would have to be revisited within days. The airports don't have the number of staff on hand to perform full checks on every person, which means these checks are threat to keep us sheep in line. Call their bluff. Also, the machines are expensive. No one can justify buying one if it won't get used. So, take the pat-down option.
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It's a Hoax
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Or are you saying you don't represent the head office in Sydney?
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What am I supposed to do? Complaining to me about the policy after I explain it to them it is policy is the most pointless thing on the planet, and all they're doing it making fools out of themselves. They go on and on and on. Yesterday some woman went on at me for 20 minutes about public toilets, then another 30 at the manager - To show her stupidity she was already finished shopping, so if she walked out of our store and about 10m in the centre she could have found public toilets. That was explained to her, but she wanted to use OUR toilets, not the centre ones.
Anyone that thinks employees will put in a request for policy change for every idiot that comes to the counter is a moron, especially since the same 20-30 things are said about 100 times a week. In fact, it's company policy (and industry standard, not just us) that employees aren't permitted to go to head office with policy changes unless they believe there is a legal issue with the current policy.
As our store manager says such a shame we can't ban people for being morons.
If you want to complain about company policy then write to head office. Pretty simple. We have no power. Head Office can (and has before) changed policy from complaints from the public. Complaining to the employees in the store is idiotic.
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Did you ask why?
Could you have not accommodate that one lady? why not? every single customer of yours get in in your store and ask to use the toilet and don't want to use the public one?
Is the public one offered by the centre not clean? if not it is not in your interest to keep it clean so you don't have those kind of problems?
Heck once in my youth I remember going to a parlor just to use the bathroom that was nicer than the one I had at home LoL
And how would they do that? do you give a card or something, do you have complaint forms available? would you give them the head office email, fax or website?
What do you do to make that easier? it is not in your best interest to make it so? why?
Do you catalog and maintain a database of complaints to see which ones are most common and can be addressed?
I highly doubt every customer you have gets in the store and starts the high people places routine, beside those are not honest people, so to say that you are saying the majority of people are dishonest which I doubt it is true.
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It is extreme and unfair: but it clarifies the point: the guys at the bottom should not be able to say "I am just following orders" to absolve themselves from the sins of the guys at the top.
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TSA
If we do no form of criticism or protest, none of us wins.
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Restaurant Refuses To Serve TSA Agents
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Restaurant Refuses To Serve TSA Agents
He is using his only tool to protest and make a difference. If EVERYONE would speak up and act up at every instance of fascism, America would be better.
People are timid, afraid and won't stand up unless everyone else does also.
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I remember one time I was crossing the border to pick up car parts, and the border agent asked me what I was picking up. Starting listing off... brake parts, clutch, flywheel, etc. and he asked me "No guns or anything like that?". I started laughing thinking he was joking... but the look he gave me... well I thought he was getting ready to arrest me.
If you ask me, although some of the policies are questionable, I'm sure some of the TSA agents make the situation worth. Its only a matter of time before more and more people start doing this.
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I would agree with you Mr. Masnick, but
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And at this point there's a lot more pride to be found in working at McD's then working for the TSA.
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