Tolkien Estate Says Just Mentioning Tolkien Infringes; Tolkien Censorwear Appears In Response

from the that's-not-how-this-works dept

Mon, Feb 28th 2011 8:43am — Mike Masnick

We've been mentioning a bit about how the estate of JRR Tolkien has been overaggressive in trying to enforce (sometimes non-existent) intellectual property rights related to Tolkien. The estate has been like that for a while, but in the last few weeks it's seemed like the number of such stories have been ramping up. The latest one is particularly ridiculous. Boing Boing points us to the news that the Tolkien Estate has threatened a guy for having a button that merely mentions Tolkien:

If you can't see the image, the button reads: "While you were reading Tolkien, I was watching Evangelion." That's not infringing in any way, shape or form. Yet, the Tolkien Estate sent Zazzle (where the button was being sold) a cease and desist. Ridiculously, Zazzle simply complied. That's disappointing as well. In cases of obvious overreach, Zazzle should stand up for the rights of its users.

Of course, where Zazzle fails to stand up for its users, its users seem to be more than willing to stand up for themselves. A bunch of protest merchandise has suddenly been showing up on Zazzle, such as the following two shirts, which joke about Christopher Tolkien's desire to censor any mention of his father that he hasn't approved or been paid for:

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Filed Under: christopher tolkien, infringement, jrr tolkien, tolkien
Companies: zazzle

75 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 8:46am

Oh look, a childish response in a t-shirt.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 8:47am
  
  Re:
  Oh look, a childish response.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Dark Helmet (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 8:53am
  
  Re:
  Wow, you must hate political cartoons....
  
  And puppies....
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Derek Bredensteiner (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 8:55am
  
  Re:
  I have the perfect plan for getting back at those Zazzle bastards for censoring us. We'll make a t-shirt protesting this, put it on Zazzle, and then make them lots of money! It's foolproof.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - pixelpusher220 (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:31am
    
    Re: Re:
    I almost wonder if Zazzle caved on the button issue for just this reason. I mean, you make much more money selling shirts as opposed to buttons...
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Not an electronic Rodent, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:04am
  
  Re:
  Oh look, a childish response in a t-shirt.
  Must resist.... obvious.... feeder.... line....
  
  "Oh look, a childish response in a comment."
  
  Dammit! Soooooo close. More willpower needed.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- The eejit (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:04am
  
  Re:
  Only from the estate of a legendary author.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:12am
  
  Re:
  And an adult response would have looked like what?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - A Dan (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:18am
    
    Re: Re:
    It would have a lot more nudity and 4-letter words.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - The Groove Tiger (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:22am
    
    Re: Re:
    Lacy underwear?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:26am
  
  Re:
  I'm with Stupid ^^^
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Richard (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:27am
  
  Re:
  Oh look, a childish response in a t-shirt.
  
  But it was the Tolkien estate the "invaded Poland"
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- DS, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:56am
  
  Re:
  Oh look, a childish response.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Kevin (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:58am
  
  Re:
  Oh look a childish response by and anonymous nobody on a blog posting.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:06am
  
  Re:
  what ever you laughed and you know it.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- HarryMonmouth, 28 Feb 2011 @ 12:00pm
  
  Re:
  It says Anonymous Coward but that could well be Christopher Tolkien. :)
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:25am

A programmer's guide on how to make copyright infringement a million times in less than a minute:

1- Open python console
2- Write " print "Tolkien "*(10**6) "
3- Enter
4- Jail
5- ???

And then they wonder why programmers have 0 respect for I.P. laws.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- chamalulu, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:45am
  
  Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
  That's really memory efficient.
  Programmers... Hmpf...
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:55am
    
    Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
    Ah fine. Effect won't be exactly the same, but, what the heck:
    
    for x in xrange(10**6):
    print "Tolkien"
    
    Now, please, don't make me implement a fast exponentiation algorithm :)
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:57am
      
      Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
      Curse you Techdirt and your leading whitespace removing demons!!!
      
      Let's try that again:
      
      for x in xrange(10**6):
      ....print "Tolkien"
      
      where . is supposed to be a space.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - vivaelamor (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 4:39pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
        let's
        test
        pre
        tags
        
        If that came out cascading then pre tags work =)
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 1 Mar 2011 @ 4:05am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
        LoL
        LoL
        LoL
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        vivaelamor (profile), 1 Mar 2011 @ 4:17am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
        Blockquote is cheating (and not very useful for code).
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 1 Mar 2011 @ 5:06am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
        How about  ?
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        vivaelamor (profile), 1 Mar 2011 @ 5:41pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
        It works, but is kinda cumbersome. I had a look for any likely addons that could auto replace leading spaces with nbsps where appropriate but didn't find anything less complicated than greasemonkey. I suppose it's not like people need to post code on Techdirt anyway.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2011 @ 12:23am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
        Brute force approach.
        
        I just use Gedit to replace all spaces, noting that if you have only one space it will get mangled so you just need to be careful and put two spaces whenever you want something to appear indented.
        
        No need to be fancy LoL
        
        It ain't pretty but it does work.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2011 @ 12:50am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
        To be clear, I just replace every space with 2 nbsp and don't use tab to indent anything, then it is just copy & paste.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 1 Mar 2011 @ 4:59am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
        Using nested <blockquote> like this:
        <blockquote>LoL<blockquote>LoL<blockquote>LoL<blockquote><blockquo te><blockquote>
        
        Result:
        
        LoL
        LoL
        LoL
        
        Or using   like this:
        
         LoL
          LoL
           LoL
        
        Result:
        
        &nb sp;LoL
          LoL
           LoL
        
        Source:
        HTML Entities
        
        Other entities:
        
        &ensp;          en space
        &emsp;         em space
                 thin space
        &zwnj;          zero width non-joiner
        &zwj;            zero width joiner
        
        ps: Please note that the Techdirt filter mangles the result sometimes, so you can be left we part of the entities dangling out or a space where there should be none.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 1 Mar 2011 @ 5:03am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
        Using nested <blockquote> like this:
        <blockquote>LoL<blockquote>LoL<blockquote>LoL<blockquote><blockquo te><blockquote>
        
        Result:
        
        LoL
        LoL
        LoL
        
        Or using   like this:
        
         LoL
          LoL
           LoL
        
        Result:
        
        &nb sp;LoL
          LoL
           LoL
        
        Source:
        HTML Entities
        
        Other entities:
        
        &ensp;          en space
        &emsp;         em space
                 thin space
        &zwnj;          zero width non-joiner
        &zwj;            zero width joiner
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- vivaelamor (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 4:36pm
  
  Re:
  "And then they wonder why programmers have 0 respect for I.P. laws."
  
  Wouldn't that be better expressed as null respect?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Justin Olbrantz (Quantam), 28 Feb 2011 @ 6:28pm
  
  Re:
  Responding to a humorous post seriously, I rather suspect it's because they're simply not afraid of technology and what it allows. Out of all the programmers and other engineers (people that develop technology for a living) I know professionally and personally, only one has ever told me in private (as opposed to on the job when their superiors are listening) that they consider digital piracy a serious problem in need of a solution.
  
  In fact, the percentage of professional programmers/engineers I know that are self-confessed pirates and/or free-culture advocates is way higher than the percentage of non-technology people.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- G Thompson (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 7:43pm
  
  Re:
  10 print "Tolkien"
  20 goto 10
  
  LOL. Damn I used to love BASIC
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - mirradric, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:40pm
    
    Re: Re:
    that was infinitely harmful...
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Justin Olbrantz (Quantam), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:33pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      IP law: the only place in the real world where you can do an infinite amount of damage to anything (at least in the eyes of the law). And as an added bonus, you can do said infinite damage while at the same time doing 0 actual damage (and that's provable).
      
      I've never used the term "imaginary property" before, but when you consider that, it sure is hard to consider IP (as defined by current law) as anything but imaginary.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
AG Wright (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:34am

Tolkein
I can't help but to want to have the word Tolkein in every post I do for a period, /. sig, FaceBook post and everything else. Nah, too much trouble.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:36am

Hum...something that's bugging me.

Supposed some random dude named Tolkien decides to sell, I dunno, Tolkien brand helicopters. Is he going to be sued for trademark/copyright/whatever infringement? If yes, can someone please stop this world? I want to get out!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- :Lobo Santo (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:49am
  
  Re:
  Maybe--but if it IS his name, he has a legitimate claim/reason to using it, and likely would be able to get the case dropped.
  
  There's a similar case a year or so ago involving a Japanese doctor who had the same name (and website) as a large manufacturer. Wish I could recall his name at the moment...
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:48am
    
    Re: Re:
    Are you thinking of Nissan?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:00am
    
    Re: Re:
    I think you're referring to the Nissan lawsuit.
    
    http://www.nissan.com/Lawsuit/The_Story.php
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- HarryMonmouth, 28 Feb 2011 @ 12:04pm
  
  Re:
  He could try changing his name to Julian Assange. Whoops that is being trademarked too.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Richard (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:47am

The first law of Toklien Club is
you don't ....
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Joe T*lkien, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:57am

Just sayin'
When I see the letter "T" followed by a censor, "Tolkien" would not be the first word that springs to mind.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- vivaelamor (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 4:41pm
  
  Re: Just sayin'
  'When I see the letter "T" followed by a censor, "Tolkien" would not be the first word that springs to mind.'
  
  Is it Tigger?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
ElSteevo (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:00am

Hey, the Levitts who built Levittown lost the right to use their own name.

I wonder if a reprinting of "Bored of the Rings" is in the offing?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
VancouverDave, 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:10am

Use it or lose it?
Copyright lawyers always tell us that copyright must be vigorously defended in order to avoid losing it.

I suggest that the same applies to human rights, only far more so.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Mike Masnick (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:21am
  
  Re: Use it or lose it?
  Copyright lawyers always tell us that copyright must be vigorously defended in order to avoid losing it.
  
  I think you mean trademark.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Atkray (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:31am
    
    Re: Re: Use it or lose it?
    Mike,
    while you are technically correct I think the comment about copyright lawyers saying they need to vigorously defend copyright to avoid losing it is also a true statement. Sad thing is it seems most of the copyright lawyers think that way copyright works.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Atkray (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:33am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Use it or lose it?
      should be: that is the way
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Richard (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:35am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Use it or lose it?
      while you are technically correct I think the comment about copyright lawyers saying they need to vigorously defend copyright to avoid losing it is also a true statement. Sad thing is it seems most of the copyright lawyers think that way copyright works.
      
      I doubt that they think that way - but I don't expect that to stop them from talking that way.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Mike Masnick (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:57am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Use it or lose it?
      while you are technically correct I think the comment about copyright lawyers saying they need to vigorously defend copyright to avoid losing it is also a true statement. Sad thing is it seems most of the copyright lawyers think that way copyright works
      
      I really don't think that's true. Most copyright lawyers know that you don't need to protect copyright. There are some *copyright holders* who think you do, but I've never run across a copyright lawyer who thinks that's how it works.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:58am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Use it or lose it?
        But that wouldn't necessarily stop them from saying so in order to weasel a few more dollars out of unknowing clients.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - jsf (profile), 1 Mar 2011 @ 8:27am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Use it or lose it?
        The thing is there are now a lot of lawyers getting involved in copyright matters that are not really trained in copyright law. It is these lawyers that state that you must defend a copyright in order to keep it.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:51am
  
  Re: Use it or lose it?
  Losing what? A paycheck?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- MrWilson, 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:14am
  
  Re: Use it or lose it?
  IP lawyers will tell you that IP must be vigorously defended in order to avoid losing their paychecks.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Remo, 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:25am

Copyright
TolkienTolkienTolkienTolkienTolkienTolkienTolkien
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- The eejit (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:52am
  
  Re: Copyright
  SonySony
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Jackie, 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:49am

Good way to disappear
Somebody should tell junior that an author or book unmentioned is soon forgotten.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
RikuoAmero (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:01am

Any word from Gainax or ADV Films if they're pissed off as well about a small meaningless button merely mentioning the name of a popular show?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Trails (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:02am

I'm just naughty...
Tolkien walked into a bar. He said, "I'll have a 46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C2" to the barkeep.

"Sorry, sir. All we have are 09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0. Will that do?"

"It will"

Tolkien moved down the bar, and set next to Holden Caulfield, who promptly said "I am a former employee of Cash 4 Gold. I did not know much about the company before being hired. On my first day of being hired, I was taught the "Cash 4 Gold Scam" from beginning to end."

"Indeed?" said Tolkien, "and who told you about this?"

"It was Xuxa Meneghel, when she was working on the set of 'Amor, Estranho Amor'"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Jimmy the Geek (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:16am

Tolkien
Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Hiiragi Kagami (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:20am

I wonder...
...if the letters are sent from the desk of Gandalf, Baggins, and Sauron (Esq).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
DogBreath, 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:30am

I always thought...
this parody image was missing something,
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1962/poohwalken.jpg
and now I've finally figured out what it was:
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4638/poohwalkentolkien.jpg
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:41am

The funny part of all of this is that Tolkien copied Beowulf, the Bible and a lot of other sources to make that crap.

He basically remixed various tales from Norse Mythology, Fin Mythology and others to make that.

Is just impressive how the stealing have been going on for so long.

Anybody saw the new film called Thor? Who has the rights for the Norse God?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- harbingerofdoom (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 5:02pm
  
  Re:
  Who has the rights for the Norse God?
  
  i think greenland got those rights as part of the treaty of kiel...
  
  /sarc
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Jimr (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:55am

Tolkien
And here I was going to name my kid/pet "Tolkien" or "Tolkien of middle Earth" in hopes they would be famous one day. What are my other kids; Gandalf, Baggins, and Sauron going to do now?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Gwiz (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 1:20pm
  
  Re: Tolkien
  Personally, I liked the names from "Bored of the Rings" better.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Not an electronic Rodent, 1 Mar 2011 @ 4:24am
    
    Re: Re: Tolkien
    Personally, I liked the names from "Bored of the Rings" better.
    I'm fairly sure your child would never, ever forgive you and would likely consider patricide in later life if you named them "Dildo Bugger" :-)
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Gwiz (profile), 1 Mar 2011 @ 9:13am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Tolkien
      I'm fairly sure your child would never, ever forgive you and would likely consider patricide in later life if you named them "Dildo Bugger" :-)
      
      Yeah, lol, so true. Luckily, my kids' mother nixed all the suggestions I had for their names....but, on the other hand, the cats have VERY interesting names....
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 1:59pm

When I was younger, age 7, I was given a big enormous fantasy style book, written by someone. It had all those things you'd expect in a fantasy book, elves and wizards and so on.
It was really cool, when I was about 14 I had to buy a new copy 'cos the old one was falling apart.
I also got the computer game of it and I had a poster of it. I'd like to tell you who it was by, but unfortunately no one is allowed to write the name.

Sorry.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Vic, 28 Feb 2011 @ 2:56pm

I just have checked Zazzle' site and looks like the button is back. I was able to add a couple to my shopping basket. Did not log in and did not check out, though...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
hmm (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 3:16pm

a quote
"If more of us valued food and cheer above hoarded gold, it would be a much merrier world." J R R Tolkien.

I guess the apple fell too far from the tree, and the son isn't like the father at all......

Oh well, maybe true talent and genius just skips a generation?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
hmm (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 3:37pm

Copyright MUST be vigorously defended by lawyers, because the only way they can become aroused is by thinking of all the lives they've ruined.

OH MY GOD! can you imagine if they all stopped procreating and we had to live in a lawyer-free world?

/shudder at the thought of everyone dancing happily and creating stuff without having to worry about someone destroying their life!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 28 Feb 2011 @ 4:59pm

Tall, But Not So Keen
You can�t trademark your own name.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
G Thompson (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 7:50pm

I think JRR himself said it best when he wrote

�Dragons steal gold and jewels, you know � and they guard the plunder as long as they live (which is practically forever, unless they are killed), and never enjoy a brass ring of it. Indeed, they hardly know a good bit of work from a bad, though they usually have a good notion of current market value; and they can�t make a thing for themselves �� The Hobbit", J.R.R. Tolkien [emphasis added]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
ClariNerd, 2 Mar 2011 @ 7:50pm

?
Am I the only one in this thread who's worried about the state of mind of a person who'd rather watch a bunch of people being hugged and turned into tang rather than a great literary masterpiece?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]