Tolkien Estate Says Just Mentioning Tolkien Infringes; Tolkien Censorwear Appears In Response

from the that's-not-how-this-works dept

Mon, Feb 28th 2011 8:43am — Mike Masnick

We've been mentioning a bit about how the estate of JRR Tolkien has been overaggressive in trying to enforce (sometimes non-existent) intellectual property rights related to Tolkien. The estate has been like that for a while, but in the last few weeks it's seemed like the number of such stories have been ramping up. The latest one is particularly ridiculous. Boing Boing points us to the news that the Tolkien Estate has threatened a guy for having a button that merely mentions Tolkien:

If you can't see the image, the button reads: "While you were reading Tolkien, I was watching Evangelion." That's not infringing in any way, shape or form. Yet, the Tolkien Estate sent Zazzle (where the button was being sold) a cease and desist. Ridiculously, Zazzle simply complied. That's disappointing as well. In cases of obvious overreach, Zazzle should stand up for the rights of its users.

Of course, where Zazzle fails to stand up for its users, its users seem to be more than willing to stand up for themselves. A bunch of protest merchandise has suddenly been showing up on Zazzle, such as the following two shirts, which joke about Christopher Tolkien's desire to censor any mention of his father that he hasn't approved or been paid for:

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Filed Under: christopher tolkien, infringement, jrr tolkien, tolkien
Companies: zazzle

75 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 8:46am

Oh look, a childish response in a t-shirt.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 8:47am

Re:
Oh look, a childish response.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Dark Helmet (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 8:53am

Re:
Wow, you must hate political cartoons....

And puppies....
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Derek Bredensteiner (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 8:55am

Re:
I have the perfect plan for getting back at those Zazzle bastards for censoring us. We'll make a t-shirt protesting this, put it on Zazzle, and then make them lots of money! It's foolproof.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Not an electronic Rodent, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:04am

Re:
Oh look, a childish response in a t-shirt.
Must resist.... obvious.... feeder.... line....

"Oh look, a childish response in a comment."

Dammit! Soooooo close. More willpower needed.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The eejit (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:04am

Re:
Only from the estate of a legendary author.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:12am

Re:
And an adult response would have looked like what?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
A Dan (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:18am

Re: Re:
It would have a lot more nudity and 4-letter words.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The Groove Tiger (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:22am

Re: Re:
Lacy underwear?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:25am

A programmer's guide on how to make copyright infringement a million times in less than a minute:

1- Open python console
2- Write " print "Tolkien "*(10**6) "
3- Enter
4- Jail
5- ???

And then they wonder why programmers have 0 respect for I.P. laws.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:26am

Re:
I'm with Stupid ^^^
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Richard (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:27am

Re:
Oh look, a childish response in a t-shirt.

But it was the Tolkien estate the "invaded Poland"
[ link to this | view in thread ]
pixelpusher220 (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:31am

Re: Re:
I almost wonder if Zazzle caved on the button issue for just this reason. I mean, you make much more money selling shirts as opposed to buttons...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
AG Wright (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:34am

Tolkein
I can't help but to want to have the word Tolkein in every post I do for a period, /. sig, FaceBook post and everything else. Nah, too much trouble.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:36am

Hum...something that's bugging me.

Supposed some random dude named Tolkien decides to sell, I dunno, Tolkien brand helicopters. Is he going to be sued for trademark/copyright/whatever infringement? If yes, can someone please stop this world? I want to get out!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
chamalulu, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:45am

Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
That's really memory efficient.
Programmers... Hmpf...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Richard (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:47am

The first law of Toklien Club is
you don't ....
[ link to this | view in thread ]
:Lobo Santo (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:49am

Re:
Maybe--but if it IS his name, he has a legitimate claim/reason to using it, and likely would be able to get the case dropped.

There's a similar case a year or so ago involving a Japanese doctor who had the same name (and website) as a large manufacturer. Wish I could recall his name at the moment...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:55am

Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
Ah fine. Effect won't be exactly the same, but, what the heck:

for x in xrange(10**6):
print "Tolkien"

Now, please, don't make me implement a fast exponentiation algorithm :)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DS, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:56am

Re:
Oh look, a childish response.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Joe T*lkien, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:57am

Just sayin'
When I see the letter "T" followed by a censor, "Tolkien" would not be the first word that springs to mind.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:57am

Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
Curse you Techdirt and your leading whitespace removing demons!!!

Let's try that again:

for x in xrange(10**6):
....print "Tolkien"

where . is supposed to be a space.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Kevin (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:58am

Re:
Oh look a childish response by and anonymous nobody on a blog posting.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
ElSteevo (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:00am

Hey, the Levitts who built Levittown lost the right to use their own name.

I wonder if a reprinting of "Bored of the Rings" is in the offing?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
VancouverDave, 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:10am

Use it or lose it?
Copyright lawyers always tell us that copyright must be vigorously defended in order to avoid losing it.

I suggest that the same applies to human rights, only far more so.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mike Masnick (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:21am

Re: Use it or lose it?
Copyright lawyers always tell us that copyright must be vigorously defended in order to avoid losing it.

I think you mean trademark.
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Remo, 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:25am

Copyright
TolkienTolkienTolkienTolkienTolkienTolkienTolkien
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Atkray (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:31am

Re: Re: Use it or lose it?
Mike,
while you are technically correct I think the comment about copyright lawyers saying they need to vigorously defend copyright to avoid losing it is also a true statement. Sad thing is it seems most of the copyright lawyers think that way copyright works.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Atkray (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:33am

Re: Re: Re: Use it or lose it?
should be: that is the way
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Richard (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:35am

Re: Re: Re: Use it or lose it?
while you are technically correct I think the comment about copyright lawyers saying they need to vigorously defend copyright to avoid losing it is also a true statement. Sad thing is it seems most of the copyright lawyers think that way copyright works.

I doubt that they think that way - but I don't expect that to stop them from talking that way.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:48am

Re: Re:
Are you thinking of Nissan?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jackie, 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:49am

Good way to disappear
Somebody should tell junior that an author or book unmentioned is soon forgotten.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:51am

Re: Use it or lose it?
Losing what? A paycheck?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mike Masnick (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 10:57am

Re: Re: Re: Use it or lose it?
while you are technically correct I think the comment about copyright lawyers saying they need to vigorously defend copyright to avoid losing it is also a true statement. Sad thing is it seems most of the copyright lawyers think that way copyright works

I really don't think that's true. Most copyright lawyers know that you don't need to protect copyright. There are some *copyright holders* who think you do, but I've never run across a copyright lawyer who thinks that's how it works.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:00am

Re: Re:
I think you're referring to the Nissan lawsuit.

http://www.nissan.com/Lawsuit/The_Story.php
[ link to this | view in thread ]
RikuoAmero (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:01am

Any word from Gainax or ADV Films if they're pissed off as well about a small meaningless button merely mentioning the name of a popular show?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Trails (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:02am

I'm just naughty...
Tolkien walked into a bar. He said, "I'll have a 46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C2" to the barkeep.

"Sorry, sir. All we have are 09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0. Will that do?"

"It will"

Tolkien moved down the bar, and set next to Holden Caulfield, who promptly said "I am a former employee of Cash 4 Gold. I did not know much about the company before being hired. On my first day of being hired, I was taught the "Cash 4 Gold Scam" from beginning to end."

"Indeed?" said Tolkien, "and who told you about this?"

"It was Xuxa Meneghel, when she was working on the set of 'Amor, Estranho Amor'"
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:06am

Re:
what ever you laughed and you know it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
MrWilson, 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:14am

Re: Use it or lose it?
IP lawyers will tell you that IP must be vigorously defended in order to avoid losing their paychecks.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jimmy the Geek (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:16am

Tolkien
Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Hiiragi Kagami (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:20am

I wonder...
...if the letters are sent from the desk of Gandalf, Baggins, and Sauron (Esq).
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DogBreath, 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:30am

I always thought...
this parody image was missing something,
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1962/poohwalken.jpg
and now I've finally figured out what it was:
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4638/poohwalkentolkien.jpg
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:41am

The funny part of all of this is that Tolkien copied Beowulf, the Bible and a lot of other sources to make that crap.

He basically remixed various tales from Norse Mythology, Fin Mythology and others to make that.

Is just impressive how the stealing have been going on for so long.

Anybody saw the new film called Thor? Who has the rights for the Norse God?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The eejit (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:52am

Re: Copyright
SonySony
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jimr (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:55am

Tolkien
And here I was going to name my kid/pet "Tolkien" or "Tolkien of middle Earth" in hopes they would be famous one day. What are my other kids; Gandalf, Baggins, and Sauron going to do now?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:58am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Use it or lose it?
But that wouldn't necessarily stop them from saying so in order to weasel a few more dollars out of unknowing clients.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HarryMonmouth, 28 Feb 2011 @ 12:00pm

Re:
It says Anonymous Coward but that could well be Christopher Tolkien. :)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HarryMonmouth, 28 Feb 2011 @ 12:04pm

Re:
He could try changing his name to Julian Assange. Whoops that is being trademarked too.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Gwiz (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 1:20pm

Re: Tolkien
Personally, I liked the names from "Bored of the Rings" better.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Feb 2011 @ 1:59pm

When I was younger, age 7, I was given a big enormous fantasy style book, written by someone. It had all those things you'd expect in a fantasy book, elves and wizards and so on.
It was really cool, when I was about 14 I had to buy a new copy 'cos the old one was falling apart.
I also got the computer game of it and I had a poster of it. I'd like to tell you who it was by, but unfortunately no one is allowed to write the name.

Sorry.
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Vic, 28 Feb 2011 @ 2:56pm

I just have checked Zazzle' site and looks like the button is back. I was able to add a couple to my shopping basket. Did not log in and did not check out, though...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
hmm (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 3:16pm

a quote
"If more of us valued food and cheer above hoarded gold, it would be a much merrier world." J R R Tolkien.

I guess the apple fell too far from the tree, and the son isn't like the father at all......

Oh well, maybe true talent and genius just skips a generation?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
hmm (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 3:37pm

Copyright MUST be vigorously defended by lawyers, because the only way they can become aroused is by thinking of all the lives they've ruined.

OH MY GOD! can you imagine if they all stopped procreating and we had to live in a lawyer-free world?

/shudder at the thought of everyone dancing happily and creating stuff without having to worry about someone destroying their life!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
vivaelamor (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 4:36pm

Re:
"And then they wonder why programmers have 0 respect for I.P. laws."

Wouldn't that be better expressed as null respect?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
vivaelamor (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 4:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
let's
test
pre
tags

If that came out cascading then pre tags work =)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
vivaelamor (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 4:41pm

Re: Just sayin'
'When I see the letter "T" followed by a censor, "Tolkien" would not be the first word that springs to mind.'

Is it Tigger?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 28 Feb 2011 @ 4:59pm

Tall, But Not So Keen
You can�t trademark your own name.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
harbingerofdoom (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 5:02pm

Re:
Who has the rights for the Norse God?

i think greenland got those rights as part of the treaty of kiel...

/sarc
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Justin Olbrantz (Quantam), 28 Feb 2011 @ 6:28pm

Re:
Responding to a humorous post seriously, I rather suspect it's because they're simply not afraid of technology and what it allows. Out of all the programmers and other engineers (people that develop technology for a living) I know professionally and personally, only one has ever told me in private (as opposed to on the job when their superiors are listening) that they consider digital piracy a serious problem in need of a solution.

In fact, the percentage of professional programmers/engineers I know that are self-confessed pirates and/or free-culture advocates is way higher than the percentage of non-technology people.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 7:43pm

Re:
10 print "Tolkien"
20 goto 10

LOL. Damn I used to love BASIC
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), 28 Feb 2011 @ 7:50pm

I think JRR himself said it best when he wrote

�Dragons steal gold and jewels, you know � and they guard the plunder as long as they live (which is practically forever, unless they are killed), and never enjoy a brass ring of it. Indeed, they hardly know a good bit of work from a bad, though they usually have a good notion of current market value; and they can�t make a thing for themselves �� The Hobbit", J.R.R. Tolkien [emphasis added]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
mirradric, 28 Feb 2011 @ 9:40pm

Re: Re:
that was infinitely harmful...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Justin Olbrantz (Quantam), 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:33pm

Re: Re: Re:
IP law: the only place in the real world where you can do an infinite amount of damage to anything (at least in the eyes of the law). And as an added bonus, you can do said infinite damage while at the same time doing 0 actual damage (and that's provable).

I've never used the term "imaginary property" before, but when you consider that, it sure is hard to consider IP (as defined by current law) as anything but imaginary.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 1 Mar 2011 @ 4:05am

Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
LoL
LoL
LoL
[ link to this | view in thread ]
vivaelamor (profile), 1 Mar 2011 @ 4:17am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
Blockquote is cheating (and not very useful for code).
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Not an electronic Rodent, 1 Mar 2011 @ 4:24am

Re: Re: Tolkien
Personally, I liked the names from "Bored of the Rings" better.
I'm fairly sure your child would never, ever forgive you and would likely consider patricide in later life if you named them "Dildo Bugger" :-)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 1 Mar 2011 @ 4:59am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
Using nested <blockquote> like this:
<blockquote>LoL<blockquote>LoL<blockquote>LoL<blockquote><blockquo te><blockquote>

Result:

LoL
LoL
LoL

Or using   like this:

 LoL
  LoL
   LoL

Result:

&nb sp;LoL
  LoL
   LoL

Source:
HTML Entities

Other entities:

&ensp;          en space
&emsp;         em space
         thin space
&zwnj;          zero width non-joiner
&zwj;            zero width joiner

ps: Please note that the Techdirt filter mangles the result sometimes, so you can be left we part of the entities dangling out or a space where there should be none.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 1 Mar 2011 @ 5:03am

Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
Using nested <blockquote> like this:
<blockquote>LoL<blockquote>LoL<blockquote>LoL<blockquote><blockquo te><blockquote>

Result:

LoL
LoL
LoL

Or using   like this:

 LoL
  LoL
   LoL

Result:

&nb sp;LoL
  LoL
   LoL

Source:
HTML Entities

Other entities:

&ensp;          en space
&emsp;         em space
         thin space
&zwnj;          zero width non-joiner
&zwj;            zero width joiner
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 1 Mar 2011 @ 5:06am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
How about  ?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
jsf (profile), 1 Mar 2011 @ 8:27am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Use it or lose it?
The thing is there are now a lot of lawyers getting involved in copyright matters that are not really trained in copyright law. It is these lawyers that state that you must defend a copyright in order to keep it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Gwiz (profile), 1 Mar 2011 @ 9:13am

Re: Re: Re: Tolkien
I'm fairly sure your child would never, ever forgive you and would likely consider patricide in later life if you named them "Dildo Bugger" :-)

Yeah, lol, so true. Luckily, my kids' mother nixed all the suggestions I had for their names....but, on the other hand, the cats have VERY interesting names....
[ link to this | view in thread ]
vivaelamor (profile), 1 Mar 2011 @ 5:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
It works, but is kinda cumbersome. I had a look for any likely addons that could auto replace leading spaces with nbsps where appropriate but didn't find anything less complicated than greasemonkey. I suppose it's not like people need to post code on Techdirt anyway.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2011 @ 12:23am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
Brute force approach.

I just use Gedit to replace all spaces, noting that if you have only one space it will get mangled so you just need to be careful and put two spaces whenever you want something to appear indented.

No need to be fancy LoL

It ain't pretty but it does work.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 2 Mar 2011 @ 12:50am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Feb 28th, 2011 @ 9:25am
To be clear, I just replace every space with 2 nbsp and don't use tab to indent anything, then it is just copy & paste.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
ClariNerd, 2 Mar 2011 @ 7:50pm

?
Am I the only one in this thread who's worried about the state of mind of a person who'd rather watch a bunch of people being hugged and turned into tang rather than a great literary masterpiece?
[ link to this | view in thread ]