On the Internet, Google+ Knows You're A TOS-Violating 10-Year-Old Dog
from the unintended-consequences dept
theodp writes"In its tear-jerker 'Dear Sophie' Google Chrome ad, a father creates a Gmail account (dear.sophie.lee@gmail.com) for his just-born daughter to preserve memories of her childhood. So, how does that work out in real life? Not so good, at least in the case of 10-year-old Alex Sutherland, who the WSJ reports was reduced to tears after being notified that the Gmail account his father created on his behalf two years earlier would be deleted because the Google+ Profile Alex created triggered a Google Terms of Service age violation. 'You made my son cry, Google,' wrote blogger Martin Sutherland. 'I'm not inclined to forgive that.' Not to pile on, but Alex may also be persona non grata at Khan Academy, where learning under the age of 13 can also constitute a TOS violation."
Of course, even bringing up how silly this is can lead to backlash. When Mark Zuckerberg recently suggested that perhaps the law needed some rethinking to make it more reasonable for those under 13 to use useful parts of the internet, it was dubbed "controversial", and he had to clarify his remarks to make clear that he wasn't trying to get under 13 kids on the site any time soon.
Either way, it does seem silly for Google to put out a commercial in which a father creates an email address for someone under 13... when it's taking away accounts from others who do the same thing...
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: coppa, terms of service, under 13
Companies: google, khan academy
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Unfair...
If the information is absolutely necessary (Zuckerberg has argued that the value of Facebook is that it creates networks of real people, who can really identify each other,) then all that is necessary is a COPPA approval from the child's parent, and Congress was forward thinking enough to permit those to be submitted by fax.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Unfair...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Unfair...
That was not forward thinking, no one in their right minds would assume such liability when they know if they ever have to come in front of a judge the prejudice and bias will all be against them.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Unfair...
Just one problem; That would require Google to actually interact with their users, which is something that they no longer do.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Unfair...
Congress is made up of pandering fools.
Their laws are shit.
Defending them makes you look like an idiot.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Unfair...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Did not get it... Thought it's about a dog's account.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: 10-year old dog?
"On the Internet, no one can tell you're a dog."
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Entitlement
Then they turn eighteen and suddenly they are expected to "just know" all sorts of stuff which they have never before been given the opportunity to find out about. This foolish technique results in a lot of failures. Then the poor old taxpayer has to pick up the pieces, with higher costs for things like law enforcement, social welfare and health.
Kids are tough. Expose them to everything, especially knowledge of all the badness in the world. The function of a parent is to prevent them from getting damaged. Anything short of damage is fair game. Protecting them too much stops them from growing up, then they are in trouble once they turn eighteen. That is no way to raise children.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Entitlement
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Entitlement
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Entitlement
I always say that, I think politics should be discussed around children. I think 'bad issues' such as sex, death and other should be openly discussed when they asked.
We are creating more and more moralist and clueless adults with this "think of the children!" attitude. It's up to the parents to educate the kids well so they can filter all the crap that's available in this world.
I do support some legislation on the topic but today the laws are only putting the children inside a crystal wall that's suddenly shattered when they turn 18. And then they don't know what to do.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Entitlement
And it's the job of the parents to help them survive and do that well. It is not the place of the neighbors.
Then they turn eighteen and suddenly they are expected to "just know" all sorts of stuff which they have never before been given the opportunity to find out about.
Things like sex! That's why child molesters are good! They're teachers!
/s
Kids are tough. Expose them to everything, especially knowledge of all the badness in the world.
Umm, no. Kids are different, and they are not all "tough" enough to handle anything that can get thrown at them. Kids *need* protection from some of the bad stuff in the world.
The function of a parent is to prevent them from getting damaged.
Which is exactly why many parents are concerned about what happens to their children online. They realize that simply keeping their kids offline would also be bad for them, so they seek to make online safer for them instead, much to the dismay of some who do bad things to them.
Anything short of damage is fair game.
Damage is exactly what the parents are trying to prevent. Trying to pretend that the parents are actually trying to damage their kids instead is ludicrous.
Protecting them too much stops them from growing up, then they are in trouble once they turn eighteen.
It is up to the parents to determine what is "too much". It is much easier for a parent that feels that the internet is too "tame" for their child to supplement it with additional experiences than it is the other way around. In fact, the other way around is practically impossible.
That is no way to raise children.
Maybe you think other people's children aren't getting exposed to enough on the net. I say, maybe you should quit trying to raise other people's children.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Have the parent login with their "verified" account and tick a binding box saying, Yes my child is under 13 and its perfectly ok for them to email Grandma or have a social network... because I'm a parent and I know what is best for my kid.
That should be ass-covery enough for the lawyers.
Maybe it is time to stop having stupid laws that let parents foist their responsibilities of raising their kid on society.
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showthread.php?t=197254
Its not my fault my kid plays the game and won't goto bed, so I should call 911 to solve this. And then we end up with more people calling 911 from the drive thru because they won't make it how I want it.
You can pass all the laws designed to wrap the world in a safe cushy nerf covering, or you can take charge and have rules with consequences for your kids and teach them how to fit into society, rather than force society to be warped for your precious snowflake.
(before the trolls hit, no we do need some laws but we do not need laws that give parents warm fuzzys that someone else is responsible for keeping their kid from exploring the web unsupervised.)
Well but kids understand tech better than parents!
Well then maybe you need to educate yourself about the magic box your kid is demanding you purchase for their "school work", rather than act like it is impossible for you to understand the scary computer.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Starting to see why almost no websites bother with this? It's ridiculous, and very onerous, no one offering free services wants to spend the time and money to get the required information to cover themselves legally. It's far, far cheaper just to go the "if you're under 13 you can't have an account" route. And yes, that includes deleting the account and all data associated with it the moment the company becomes aware the user is actually under 13. That's part of the law, it's not a punitive thing! This whole mess is Google obeying COPPA exactly as written. The problem truly is that COPPA is a really bad law.
I personally think the law is completely and utterly useless. All it's done is teach children that they should lie about their age online. And since they're lying about their ages, companies are still (inadvertently, because every legit company religiously complies with deleting accounts & data on discovery of a user under 13) collecting information on children online, and legally to boot. Seems to me the law's completely failed in its purpose and should be fixed. But you can't suggest that because the "think of the children" crowd goes ballistic and accuse you of all kinds of things.
Until we stop with knee-jerk reactions to the "think of the children" mantra we'll never have saner laws.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Or maybe we could remove the stupid laws put into place for panic stricken parents who can not understand it is their job to raise a child, not the job of society.
Of course some "genius" will bring up this is why we need the "verified identities" law they tried to pass, so we could be "protected" from fraudulent charges, and make it easier for the wire taps running online to know who was talking.
Deleting the account contents with no way for someone to export it is punitive, but it is also a CYA move.
Because parents have this way of shifting the blame to everyone but themselves.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Closing an account is a minor problem in comparison with the fact that there is no way to get your data back. Or Google operates on a premise that 12-years old's data is not as valuable as that shit serious grow-ups produce?
My friend's daughter (12) had Google account for years, communicating with her friends and grandmothers abroad. She also developed a habit of doing her school homework using Google Docs. Now all that wealth of information is gone forever. It is not just bad... It is evil.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Google is doing good job
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
(lack of tech skills , understanding etc..)
Kids NEED protected online.
Most of the time they need protected from themselves. They wont think twice about sending pics of themselves.Wont think twice about communicating to people who they would call STRANGER in real life.
They DONT / CANT UNDERSTAND the consequences of broadcasting personal info online. (they are too young)
@Martin Sutherland (the blogger dude)
Your kid (10)
uses email address online then gets spam for porn.
Member of facebook (Unknown stranger asking to be "friends")
Wow , just send your kid out to the local Dive-Bar and let him ""learn"" the realities of life.
or
Protect the child until it's developed enough to make clear judgement calls.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Children are little people and they understand a lot of things if those things are explained in a calm manner and they will develop the skills needed to deal with things like porn along the way.
Forcing the little people to do something will compel them to find ways around it and if you can't trust them to do something and if you are not the person they come for advise then you have a bigger problem than they giving away private information or putting themselves at risk for crooks and predators which could happen and they could get kidnapped or end up being tortured raped and killed as it happens today even with all the "protections".
Can you show any study demonstrating the "significant decrease" in those incidents since those protections were put in place?
Can you show how effective those "protections" are?
Because if you can't you are advocating for something useless for the desired effect just because you want something not because you know it is needed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
(lack of tech skills , understanding etc..)
I'm sure you have studies or have studied this intently to make such an assertion, right? Declarations like that are exactly what a plethora of legislation is made of.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
"for the children" is like "but. but.... Piracy"
which is truly worse, second hand smoke from a cigarette, or second hand car exhaust?
this is only "feel" good legislation. it makes for a great clip on the MSM news.
this is what politics IS, not much to do with reality but sure helps pick the prom king/Queen.
My niece was programming DOS at 5 years old, she would write her one programs, at 10 she was into C++.
children develop at different ages, it "should" be a parents choice, but too many parents have no Idea what little John/Jane are doing. because of being too busy or they just don't care.
the real world has "darwin" awards, the internet should also, if you cannot survive a virtual world the real would will surely kill you, as it should be.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It's sort of a Techdirt classic.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
i want to see
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
#fuckyouwashington
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]