Kings Of Leon Management Issuing Questionable DMCA Takedowns To Stop Clips Of On-Stage Problems?

from the copyright-as-censorship dept

Mon, Aug 1st 2011 6:58pm — Mike Masnick

John Obeidin points us to the news that YouTube videos of a problematic Dallas concert by the band Kings of Leon are disappearing from YouTube under claims from Vector Management, who apparently represent the band.

Apparently Caleb Followhill from the band complained a bunch about feeling sick and saying that his voice was shot. At some point, he announced that he was going backstage to vomit and that he'd be back later -- which didn't happen. The rest of the band apologized (profusely) and later hinted at "bigger" problems with the band. Lots of folks in the audience were upset about all of this. Either way, a bunch of videos sprung up on YouTube. But as quickly as they go up, Vector Management appears to be pulling them down. Now it's possible that some of the videos include clips of copyrighted songs, but the whole thing certainly seems pretty questionable, and looks like an attempt to stifle the video of what happened. Assuming that most of the videos only included a bit of music, but focused on Caleb's statements, it seems like there would also be strong fair use claims.

Now, I did just find the following video, which does not appear to include any music, but merely clips out the statements made by Caleb and then other members of the band. It's still up as I'm posting this. If it remains up, then perhaps the takedowns are only directed at clips with actual music in them. Even so, the whole thing feels sketchy and, of course, is only drawing more attention to the whole story.

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Filed Under: caleb followhill, dmca, kings of leon, takedown, youtube
Companies: vector management

37 Comments

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byte^me (profile), 1 Aug 2011 @ 8:18pm

Interesting
I find it very interesting that right at a year ago, the Kings of Leon cancelled a concert in St. Louis after just three songs because of a pigeon crapping on them. Details at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/24/kings-of-leon-pooped-on-b_n_658330.html.

This is starting to sound like an ongoing theme for them.
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- Anonymous Coward, 1 Aug 2011 @ 9:18pm
  
  Re: Interesting
  Oh no, I got a little spot on my outfit, I can't continue
  
  ROCK N ROOOOOLLL!!!!
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  - Zot-Sindi, 1 Aug 2011 @ 9:33pm
    
    Re: Re: Interesting
    i just read it and i guess it pooped in someone's mouth, not on their clothes.... ....that would suck... alot
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    - Anonymous Coward, 3 Aug 2011 @ 1:47pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Interesting
      That happened to Cyndi Lauper, and _she_ kept singing.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Ellen Strac, 2 Aug 2011 @ 12:35am
  
  Re: Interesting
  Oh as if! Th crapped on jared 3 times you would ne'er stay on and play if you were covered on crap!
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  - Kaden (profile), 2 Aug 2011 @ 4:39am
    
    Re: Re: Interesting
    KOL fan, are you? Which one do you like the most?
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Matt, 1 Aug 2011 @ 9:37pm

"copyright" claim on KOL rant video
I posted a video that was subsequently removed like all the others. It contained no music and only showed Calebs speech. Same as the other videos. The one you have on this page was taken down as well but put back up with all the "property of trodmac" stuff. I was a little curious as to why my video was removed.

Matt
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- Mike Masnick (profile), 1 Aug 2011 @ 10:58pm
  
  Re: "copyright" claim on KOL rant video
  I posted a video that was subsequently removed like all the others. It contained no music and only showed Calebs speech. Same as the other videos. The one you have on this page was taken down as well but put back up with all the "property of trodmac" stuff. I was a little curious as to why my video was removed.
  
  Are you filing a counternotice?
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  - Anonymous Coward, 2 Aug 2011 @ 12:37am
    
    Re: Re: "copyright" claim on KOL rant video
    Mike Masnick is "Captain Privacy" in all situations unless it involves publicly embarrassing musicians.
    
    Y'know, people that actually possess talent, unlike himself and his douche brigade here.
    
    The terms of going to a concert are listed very clearly on the ticket. Just because musicians are generally chill and let you record/film their show does not mean they can't choose to invoke their rights about their performance.
    
    Is there a bigger hypocritical slimeball on the web than Mike Masnick?
    
    Nope.
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    - PeteProdge (profile), 2 Aug 2011 @ 2:11am
      
      Re: Re: Re: "copyright" claim on KOL rant video
      "Is there a bigger hypocritical slimeball on the web than Mike Masnick?"
      
      Yes, someone who rants against him with the "Captain Privacy" snide remark, yet refuses to put a name to their own ranting.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Mike Masnick (profile), 2 Aug 2011 @ 2:59am
      
      Re: Re: Re: "copyright" claim on KOL rant video
      Mike Masnick is "Captain Privacy" in all situations unless it involves publicly embarrassing musicians.
      
      Um. Dude did what he did in front of thousands of people. There's no "privacy" issues at all. How can you not see that?
      
      Y'know, people that actually possess talent, unlike himself and his douche brigade here.
      
      Moving on...
      
      The terms of going to a concert are listed very clearly on the ticket.
      
      Makes no difference. This is abuse of copyright. Nothing on the back of a ticket legally gives the band's mgmt copyright over videos taken by others.
      
      Just because musicians are generally chill and let you record/film their show does not mean they can't choose to invoke their rights about their performance.
      
      You don't understand a thing about copyright law, do you?
      
      Is there a bigger hypocritical slimeball on the web than Mike Masnick?
      
      Nope
      
      When you have to answer your own rhetorical, people might wonder if it's because no one actually agrees with your answer. Just saying...
      
      In the meantime, when are you going to stop with the ad hom attacks and actually pay attention to what we *actually* say? I mean it's fun and all to watch you make up shit all the time, but it's not very productive.
      
      So can we have a productive discussion?
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      - The eejit (profile), 2 Aug 2011 @ 3:44am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: "copyright" claim on KOL rant video
        Mike, two points:
        
        1) DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS :p;
        
        2) He doesn't care about his reputation,e lse he'd be actually innovating, rather than spending his time embracing the persecution complex.
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      - Anonymous Coward, 2 Aug 2011 @ 11:12am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: "copyright" claim on KOL rant video
        It's not about copyright you idiot- you're not allowed to record/film a show without permission. Period.
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        Mike Masnick (profile), 2 Aug 2011 @ 12:55pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "copyright" claim on KOL rant video
        It's not about copyright you idiot- you're not allowed to record/film a show without permission. Period
        
        I'm the idiot? Fascinating.
        
        FYI, while a venue may set policy barring video without permission, that only leads to a cause of action between the venue and the individual. It *does not* allow for a takedown to be issued on the video.
        
        Separately, there are additional questions about the legality of any such policy. At *best* it would allow the venue to remove the patron. It almost certainly would not allow for legal action as no actual contract was ever signed.
        
        And, even you admitting that "its not about copyright" proves my point: this is an illegal abuse of the DMCA.
        
        Period.
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        Anonymous Coward, 5 Aug 2011 @ 3:08pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "copyright" claim on KOL rant video
        Read the back of a concert ticket some time.
        
        Oh wait, that would involve "paying" to be entertained...
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        Mike Masnick (profile), 5 Aug 2011 @ 3:42pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "copyright" claim on KOL rant video
        Read the back of a concert ticket some time.
        
        I have. I addressed that in my post. It is not enforceable despite your claims, and the only thing they can do with it is kick you out. They cannot make a faulty DMCA claim.
        
        Oh wait, that would involve "paying" to be entertained...
        
        Are you really that much of an asshole? I pay to be entertained all the time. I go to lots of concerts and movies and I buy CDs and music from Amazon on a near weekly basis. I've told you this. Why do you insist on pretending I don't.
        
        In the meantime, learn something about copyright law before looking even more stupid.
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    - CL, 2 Aug 2011 @ 6:52am
      
      Re: Re: Re: "copyright" claim on KOL rant video
      Other people marked this as "funny", right?
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    - JMT (profile), 2 Aug 2011 @ 5:09pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: "copyright" claim on KOL rant video
      "Y'know, people that actually possess talent, unlike himself and his douche brigade here."
      
      So tell us who you are and what your talents are so we can make a call on who's talented and who's not, and who's a douche and who's not. Or are you too chicken?
      
      "Is there a bigger hypocritical slimeball on the web than Mike Masnick?"
      
      The irony is strong with this one...
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Matt, 1 Aug 2011 @ 9:37pm

"copyright" claim on KOL rant video
I posted a video that was subsequently removed like all the others. It contained no music and only showed Calebs speech. Same as the other videos. The one you have on this page was taken down as well but put back up with all the "property of trodmac" stuff. I was a little curious as to why my video was removed.

Matt
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Matt, 1 Aug 2011 @ 9:38pm

"copyright" claim on KOL rant video
I posted a video that was subsequently removed like all the others. It contained no music and only showed Calebs speech. Same as the other videos. The one you have on this page was taken down as well but put back up with all the "property of trodmac" stuff. I was a little curious as to why my video was removed.

Matt
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Matt, 1 Aug 2011 @ 9:38pm

"copyright" claim on KOL rant video
I posted a video that was subsequently removed like all the others. It contained no music and only showed Calebs speech. Same as the other videos. The one you have on this page was taken down as well but put back up with all the "property of trodmac" stuff. I was a little curious as to why my video was removed.

Matt
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- teka, 1 Aug 2011 @ 10:05pm
  
  Re: "copyright" claim on KOL rant video
  file a counternotice through youtube?
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- Nicedoggy, 2 Aug 2011 @ 3:38am
  
  Re: "copyright" claim on KOL rant video
  To much coffee can cause your hands to shake uncontrollably and hit the refresh button repeatedly when you are still on the send page.
  
  Cautionary tale about to much coffee.
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Brendan (profile), 1 Aug 2011 @ 10:28pm

Seems drunk, not "sick"
After watching the video, it seems like Caleb was in fact drunk, not sick, despite his protestations.

If he was only getting worse, it makes sense for the band to keep him offstage rather than coming out as an embarassment.

That was my impression. Maybe he was just sick...
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- Nicedoggy, 2 Aug 2011 @ 3:40am
  
  Re: Seems drunk, not "sick"
  Alcoholism is a debilitating sickness.
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  - The eejit (profile), 2 Aug 2011 @ 3:44am
    
    Re: Re: Seems drunk, not "sick"
    So's the Deadsies.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 2 Aug 2011 @ 7:53am
    
    Re: Re: Seems drunk, not "sick"
    He should have railed some coke off a hookers ass and gotten on with it.
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hmm (profile), 2 Aug 2011 @ 1:59am

simply because
Someone at the groups management has grabbed the idea that "there's no such thing as bad publicity" and has been reading techdirt it seems:

step1. have the band "cancel" halfway through a performance, drawing SOME media attention
step2. Issue massive takedown notices of any video about this to try to take advantage of the Streisand Effect
step3. ?????
step4. Profit when the "Surprise" new album/tour comes out......
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- Marcel de Jong (profile), 2 Aug 2011 @ 8:14am
  
  Re: simply because
  or
  step4. Realize you've just alienated your entire fanbase...
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Richard (profile), 2 Aug 2011 @ 2:40am

Citing copyright in order to censor information?

Who knew.

The word copyright has been over used and abused for so long now, the actual meaning of the word is becoming blurred.
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R. Decline, 2 Aug 2011 @ 6:35am

Who cares if your voice is shot, it is more annoying to keep making excuses over and over about it. Just get on with it.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Aug 2011 @ 8:21am

they suck anyway, canceled their tour as well so who cares!
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Aug 2011 @ 11:24am

Filing DMCA complaints against people you don't like/videos you don't approve of on Youtube is an old, old tactic. Youtube will axe pretty much any video on one or two DMCA notices or enough flaggings without as much as verifying that the person filing it is actually a verified source or that the person filing it is actually a legitimate rights holder and not some butthurt little kid trying to settle an internet argument. It might as well just be an automatic takedown, as it's nigh-impossible to ever actually get your account back once it has happened. And it only takes one little dickweed with enough patience to completely ruin your account.
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- chris, 4 Aug 2011 @ 9:29am
  
  Re:
  It would be nearly impossible for YouTube to determine if every person who sent a notice was the copyright holder for that work. They have no choice but to assume it is legit. A random kid has the same authority to enforce a copyright as some mega-corp, and is no more likely to file a false claim.
  
  I say that because I'm worried that people think materials produced by large businesses are somehow more copyrighted then say a personal blog, and should have more access to enforcement measures.
  
  Take a three strikes system for example, a copyright holder sends a claim of infringement to an ISP and the ISP takes action. Since the actually question of infringement can only be answered by a court, the ISP should not treat a claim from the RIAA any differently then some individual. If they do, then that undermines the legitimacy of copyright law because everyone is supposed to be equal under the rule of law.
  
  The reason there are little/no penalties for a false claim is because it would not benefit those who lobbied for the DMCA, and most people don't have the resources to fight for such a penalty using the court system.
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ofb2632 (profile), 2 Aug 2011 @ 11:56am

consequence or lack thereof
What are the consequences of filing a false take down order? and why are the penalties not more severe?
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- Anonymous Coward, 2 Aug 2011 @ 12:13pm
  
  Re: consequence or lack thereof
  None, they can't go after every person who files a false claim. And some of the people who file false claims are legitimate rightsholders that would be perfectly willing in fighting a long, drawn out legal battle over who can and can't file a DMCA notice.
  
  So youtube finds it safer to just axe every video, regardless if any sort of infringing takes place or even if the person claiming infringement actually owns the content in the first place. Anyone can do it because anyone can be considered a legal rights holder on the internet.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 2 Aug 2011 @ 2:26pm
    
    Re: Re: consequence or lack thereof
    Then be prepared to go balls up at some point. Someday, someone out there will get tired of the nonsense, and start something entirely new, and all of the lawyers, copyfreaks, and DCMASwingers will be standing at the side of the road with their broken business model in one hand and a bottle of jack in the other.
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