Dear World: Self-Driving Cars Will Get Into Accidents Too (Though, This One Wasn't The Computer's Fault)
from the hello-technology dept
There's a bunch of talk today over the news that one of Google's self-driving autonomous vehicles apparently got into a minor fender bender. Google was quick to point out that it was actually under human control at the time, so really there's not much of a story here. However, since it's leading to a variety of discussions about how "scary" autonomous vehicles are, why don't we just get an important point out of the way: there's no way that autonomous vehicles will have a perfect track record and never, ever get into an accident. They will crash. It's just a matter of time. The real question is not whether or not they will crash, but whether or not the likelihood of getting into an accident (or the likelihood of the seriousness of any such accident) is significantly higher or lower than with a human at the controls. I'm certainly not confident in the state of the art today to be safer, but I find it likely that it won't be long until such vehicles have a much higher probability of getting you to your destination safely than a human-driven vehicle.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: accidents, autonomous vehicles, driving
Companies: google
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
This isn't something that will happen all at once.
One thing I know for sure, if Microsoft comes up with self driving software, I will be driving manually.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: This isn't something that will happen all at once.
Volks have one ready for the road already.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: This isn't something that will happen all at once.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: This isn't something that will happen all at once.
Predictions:
1. Microkernel architecture.
2. Planned failure states.
;-P
I, for one, look forward to when there are few ...individuals driving poorly.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: This isn't something that will happen all at once.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: This isn't something that will happen all at once.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: This isn't something that will happen all at once.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: This isn't something that will happen all at once.
Hee Hee
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
/sarc
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
"Unknown error, airbags deployed"
"Accelerator stuck at maximum, please contact vendor"
"You have 90 days to register your cars OS or it will be disabled"
"The OS has detected 'possible' infringing content, driving you to the police station"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Just vacate car, close door, open door and get in, then insert anykey.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
We're already beyond Safe with this technology
Are you kidding? These things have driven hundreds of thousands of miles and this is the first "potential" accident? I'm ready to sign on the line right now if that is any measure of future car driving.
Even WITH manual assisted driving, this is amazing!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: We're already beyond Safe with this technology
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
The same can be said of human drivers. Throw same rain, or :gasp: snow at people here and they loose all semblance of sanity.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
On top of that, a car would know immediately it starts loosing traction, unlike a human.
I think especially for us that gets a lot of snow cars without an ego or an overestimation of their own capabilities, will be a lifesaver.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Self Driving Awareness
The part I like about self driving cars is fewer drunks and easier to train my teenagers....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Self Driving Awareness
I'd say more drunks. Many people don't drink because of having to drive, now that they don't have to drive, more drunks.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Liability
It makes me wonder how insurance will change. Will insurance companies cover that (they'll charge for it no doubt), but then who will they go after? Maybe they'll make it so expensive to cover that they won't need to go after anyone.
I also wonder what will happen in the case that an automated car is in an accident with a manually driven car? I suspect the manual driver will sue the owner of the automated car, the manufacturer and the driving software writer, even if the fault lies with the manual driver.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Liability
Modern insurance structures have nothing to do with guaranteeing safety/costs being covered and everything to do with making sure EVERYBODY who drives must--by law--shell out $$$$ to insurers.
Therefore, following the "most money to be made theory" the insurance structure will maintain its present state even after everybody has begun using a self-driving car. Who is 'responsible' will still be determined in the same manner.
QED Car A strikes Car B, Car A's ower's insurance will be paying, and there Car A's owner will also be paying.
There is more money to be taken from everybody than from a handful of companies making car-algorithms.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Liability
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Liability
;-P
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Liability
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Liability
The more I think about it, the more I think things probably wouldn't be any different than they are now. Insurance companies (and by extension, the insured) pay in most circumstances, and of the remaining cases, barring situations where a party is obviously at fault, the entity being sued will be the one with the most money. Of course that doesn't answer how a judge/jury will rule.
Like I said, I'm all for automated driving, even while fully recognizing that it won't be perfect. I just wonder who will ultimately be held liable in cases where perfection is not only not achieved, but catastrophically avoided.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Liability
I hit a car a while back and didn't pay a dime. My liability insurance covered it completely.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
I'm that guy in a million! Then again, since I know I'm a bad driver I don't drive, so perhaps I don't count? ;-)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
First kid that gets run over ends this nonsense.
If it's claimed that robot reaction times and accuracy are far bettter than human, it's disproved by fact that wasn't. If try to weasel that "accidents will happen", then it proves they knew was unsafe.
Google can insure (by own deep pockets) that a few of these can be operated "safely". I doubt any insurance company would underwrite a whole fleet: unknown but large risks.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: First kid that gets run over ends this nonsense.
Ummm human drivers run kids over all the time
"it's disproved by fact that wasn't."
So they are not better because your hypothetical situation proves they are not?
"Google can insure (by own deep pockets) that a few of these can be operated "safely". I doubt any insurance company would underwrite a whole fleet: unknown but large risks."
"If try to weasel that "accidents will happen", then it proves they knew was unsafe."
But accidents will happen, you can't account for everything. If the robots drive safer than the humans, but not 100% safe we shouldn't let them drive? By that logic cars should be banned. Along with anything that has sharp edges, hard surfaces, and square corners.
Who owns a fleet of cars? If they are proven to be safer than the average human driver im pretty sure the insurance companies will love them. Oh thats right, that was "disproved by fact that wasn't."
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: First kid that gets run over ends this nonsense.
You may be right, but that doesn't mean that would be a rational outcome.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Do you believe it?
POLL: Do you believe that human error really caused the crash?
Vote: http://www.wepolls.com/p/1738107
I take them at their word.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
On the other hand, Astro Boy.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Automation will happen.
Liability isn't going to stop it.
Unions (truckers, taxi drivers, FedX, UPS, USPS) will not stop it.
There is a clock, and every second brings us closer to the day that our cars will drive us where we want to go.
We will be let off at the front door. Houses will not have Garages. Most people will not directly own a vehicle but will buy into a vehicle pool.
We will save 39,987 lives out of the 40,000 lives lost on highways each year. We will avoid 149,876 out of the 162,000 significant but non-fatal injuries that occur in highway accidents each year.
I don't know when this will happen. I always thought it would happen before 2020 at least, but that seems unlikely now. But it will happen.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I can't believe nobody said it yet
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
its time is comming
I see people on highways such as I 95 who are sleepy and their car starts to wander in lane, so wouldn't it be great to climb into back and get some sleep while computer drives car.
Airplanes have had auto pilot for years as do boats.
the ins issue would have to be worked out but i see a safer experiences on roads. Hope gov gets out of way of progress.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Human Driver
Congress considering ban on humans driving automobiles following Tuesday's accident....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Investigation from authorities after my tip confirms that it is people on Schmidt and Thrun's side who's behind May Zhou's murder case in order to threaten me and to terrorize Stanford. And the power on their side did try to plot a murder on me while I was in California. Before the case could be publicly clarified, neither Thrun nor Schmidt's name is clear in such plotted murder. So far, they dare not deny such accusation-s but pretend not seeing while publicly losing their faces.
In the past, Thrun's bosses had tried to get me work with Sebastian Thrun as a settlement of crimes from Thrun's
side, but I never compromised a bit, because as I told the investigat-ors, that it is unfair to that innocently murdered girl May Zhou.
It's unfair to myself as well, as Eric Schmidt, Sebastian Thrun and Gabriele Scheler's side did try to murder me
while I was in California;
Who wants to work with a professor who's misbehaviors had caused the murder of an innocent student of their own school anyway.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
References
For reference please read COMMENTS Part in
http://read.bi/thrunscase
http://bit.ly/schmidttt about Google's Eric Schmidt
http://read.bi/schmitie about Google's Eric Schmidt
Also attention to the photo evidence in the context http://tysurl.com/mssgYn
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
serious stuff
Investigation from authorities after my tip confirms that it is people on Schmidt and Thrun's side who's behind May Zhou's murder case in order to threaten me and to terrorize Stanford. And the power on their side did try to plot a
murder on me while I was in California. Before the case could be publicly clarified, neither Thrun nor Schmidt's name is clear in such plotted murder. So far, they dare not deny such accusations but pretend not seeing while publicly losing their faces.
In the past, Thrun's bosses had tried to get me work with Sebastian Thrun as a settlement of crimes from Thrun's side, but I never compromised a bit, because as I told the investigat-ors, that it is unfair to that innocently murdered girl May Zhou. It's unfair to myself as well, as Eric Schmidt, Sebastian Thrun and Gabriele Scheler's side did try to murder me while I was in California;
Who wants to work with a professor who's misbehaviors had caused the murder of an innocent student of their own school anyway.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]