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Fox News Tells AP Not To Use Clips From GOP Debate; AP Apparently Unfamiliar With Fair Use

from the no-surprise dept

Fri, Aug 12th 2011 5:34pm — Mike Masnick

The Associated Press has a history that suggests it doesn't like fair use, even though its reporters and staff rely on it constantly. Yet, perhaps the AP is finally putting its money where its mouth is and will no longer rely on fair use at all. As Tim Lee points out, in this video clip the AP put together of the GOP presidential candidates' debate, there is no footage of the actual debate shown, and the AP says (at about 28 seconds) that "Fox News Channel did not allow AP to select excerpts of the debate for use in this online video story." But, of course, short clips from debates are always used by competing news channels and they know that it's protected by fair use. There's so much that's bizarre about that single line in the story when you think about it. Why would AP ask permission in the first place? The whole point of fair use is that you don't need permission. Why would Fox deny the permission? Fox relies on fair use just as much as others do, and "denying" another news provider seems likely to come back and haunt them. Why didn't the AP use the video clips anyway and stand up for their basic fair use rights?

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Filed Under: copyright, debate, fair use, fox news, gop
Companies: associated press, fox, news corp.

36 Comments

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The eejit (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 5:09pm

Gotta give props for the AP - they're learning to practice what they preach.
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- abc gum, 12 Aug 2011 @ 5:50pm
  
  Re:
  Honor among thieves?
  
  I'm guessing they will feel free to use the works of little people.
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- Donnicton, 12 Aug 2011 @ 6:13pm
  
  Re:
  Keep in mind as well that Fox doesn't have a lot of networks that are friendly towards them. Considering as pointed out before that the AP tends to have a pretty deceitfully hypocritical streak, it wouldn't surprise me if some lone AP reporter just wanted to make Fox look bad.
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  - The Mighty Buzzard (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 7:02pm
    
    Re: Re:
    More likely Fox was just returning some of the ass pain the AP has been giving everyone else. I'd have told them a heartfelt GFY too after some of the shat they've pulled.
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  - abc gum, 12 Aug 2011 @ 7:39pm
    
    Re: Re:
    "it wouldn't surprise me if some lone AP reporter just wanted to make Fox look bad."
    
    I doubt they need any help, they do a fairly good job themselves.
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  - tindiana (profile), 13 Aug 2011 @ 9:46am
    
    Re: Re: Donnicaton
    Fox knows there is a lot of ammo for the other side, which may or may not be the AP.
    
    They want to shape the news... not report it. This has become a problem in mainstream news on-line comments also. They (media "moderators") are "censuring" in the name of moderation and when someone doesn't like a comment, even when it makes sense, is reasonably argued and contains no names or profanity...it is "flagged" and it is removed quickly.
    
    I'm banned on Bloomberg, PBS, and censored significantly on CNN, especially CNN Money. They simply cannot argue and debate truthfully, openly, because often their arguments fail under analysis. Is that big brother controlling them?
    
    Courts are doing the same thing (ignoring reasoned argument and pleadings) and fraud is prevailing often.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 6:02pm

Fox relies on fair use just as much as others do, and "denying" another news provider seems likely to come back and haunt them. Why didn't the AP use the video clips anyway and stand up for their basic fair use rights?

Rope-a-dope?
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Tallbonez, 12 Aug 2011 @ 6:08pm

No CLIPS for YOU!
It would seriously hamper their ability to steer polls and the primaries if people actually saw what went down.
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Tallbonez, 12 Aug 2011 @ 6:08pm

No CLIPS for YOU!
It would seriously hamper their ability to steer polls and the primaries if people actually saw what went down.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 6:24pm

I think Gamefreak claimed copyright on those clips
With Cain's closing speech quoting Pokemon it seems likely.
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gorehound (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 6:25pm

Hahahahahaha
is all I have to say about these two giants of our modern media.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 7:09pm

Because anyone that watched the debate could see what a laughing stock the Republicans are. Fox being the Republican network wanted to protect their candidates from being exposed as nutjobs. The less people that see them the better.
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- abc gum, 12 Aug 2011 @ 7:40pm
  
  Re:
  "Because anyone that watched the debate could see what a laughing stock the Republicans are. Fox being the Republican network wanted to protect their candidates from being exposed as nutjobs. The less people that see them the better."
  
  This sounds like a reasonable hypothesis
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  - Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 7:49pm
    
    Re: Re:
    What I was going to say. The debates where a bizarro insane-fest suitable only for the mentally deranged. Fox news and the GOP receive no benefit for showing the debates. If anything it would hurt the pro-war neo-conservative stance as Ron Paul actually came out the frontrunner in the debates and thoroughly embarrassed Bachmann and whoever the #2 guy is. I'm not a fan of Ron Paul in the general sense, but if I had to vote for anyone currently running from the two crap-parties, I'd vote for him.
    
    Fox news actually removed the results of the opinion poll after the debate which showed the results heavily in his favor.
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    - The eejit (profile), 13 Aug 2011 @ 1:14am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      I'm bugfuck craxy, and even I wouldn't step into the current GOP primaries. I'd be too sane.
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- Anonymous Coward, 13 Aug 2011 @ 3:02pm
  
  Re:
  Does this mean that the rest of the networks are Democrat Networks??
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  - Anonymous Coward, 13 Aug 2011 @ 5:10pm
    
    Re: Re:
    No. The other channels are news channels. Fox "News" isn't a news channel. It's a Republican chennel.
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    - caspiansails (profile), 15 Aug 2011 @ 10:43am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      You are correct they are not Democrat they are liberal and Fox is conservative except hard news is fairly unbiased.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 7:54pm

I think that the reason is the the debates were not "news", as much as a program produced by Fox for the Fox networks. Think of it as "entertainment" rather than news.
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- yourelame, 24 Aug 2011 @ 1:47pm
  
  Re:
  So clever. Please, just keep writing so we can all enjoy more of your unique wit. Idiot.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Aug 2011 @ 8:15pm

Propaganda
Think about it - Fox knows that it's fair use. AP knows that it's fair use. What is the point of pretending otherwise?

Well, you have two copyright-maximalist organizations, who want to eliminate fair use. Why not pretend it doesn't exist, so as to convince anyone watching that it doesn't exist?

There is a word for this: propaganda.
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Any Mouse (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 9:34pm

Easy
Sometimes this stuff is just too easy to find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDSs_XFmacc
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- ANoiXioNA (profile), 13 Aug 2011 @ 4:06am
  
  Re: Easy
  Thank you Any Mouse.
  
  Let's cut and paste this all over the web.......
  
  Fair use styley.....
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- ANoiXioNA (profile), 13 Aug 2011 @ 4:32am
  
  Re: Easy
  just found a torrent on TPB...
  
  Better quality... 874mb
  
  Third GOP Debate 2012 ( misnamed as Ohio )
  a3fa0b63cf5f3257aee3d453f02b95dca41d5878
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A Guy, 13 Aug 2011 @ 1:31am

Well, as nice as it is to see them practicing what they preach, it won't last long. Someone will notice that blogs continually outperform the AP on a MORE regular basis when reporting on the same issue. If the AP is truly handicaps itself in this way, it will only serve to quicken their irrelevance and demise.
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BongoBern (profile), 13 Aug 2011 @ 8:35am

Fair use applies to all. No permits required. Irritating to see a "Goldline: The only gold company Glenn Beck recommends." ad underneath all of this - as if Glenn Beck wasn't a payed shill. Glenn Beck? Drech. A madman tilting at windmills.
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newsdork (profile), 13 Aug 2011 @ 9:56am

Fair Use is fairly straight forward...theoretically
Lemme quote from the U.S. Copyright Office -

"Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright."

Maybe the AP is subtly reminding us that they're not news reporters?
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tindiana (profile), 13 Aug 2011 @ 10:40am

AP is subtly reminding us that they're not news reporters
My wife, a journalist, explains to me that the AP doesn't even have an office in our state. They have no vested interest in bringing balanced news in my community. A small staff simply operates it as a business from another state, choosing what they want to pass on and what they don't. The comment about them respecting Fox request rings true as a way to eliminate "fair use", at the expense of their readers.
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NamelessOne, 13 Aug 2011 @ 5:33pm

Let me ask you Americans
WOULD YOU want to be the next president with a 16.5 trillion dollar debt?
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Matthew McIntyre, 13 Aug 2011 @ 7:59pm

AP are a bunch of Progressive Tools
The AP doesn't care about fair anything. FOX on the other hand did what was right and did not allow a bunch of anti american or anti free speech people get there hands on video so they could doctor it up so it looked like the candidates said one thing when they really did not. I swear FOX is the only semi honest news station out there the rest flat out LIE.
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- abc gum, 14 Aug 2011 @ 7:29am
  
  Re: AP are a bunch of Progressive Tools
  That's pretty funny, keep up the good work.
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- TIndiana, 14 Aug 2011 @ 5:55pm
  
  Re: AP are a bunch of Progressive Tools
  Since when do "sponsors" of public events have exclusive copyright? Were the Iowa organizers so desperate that they made some contractual agreement?
  
  Listen to the crowd reactions to answers...Paul was a hands down winner.
  
  I watched MSNBC News a few minutes ago and they didn't even mention Paul. Who owns/runs MSNBC for them to "shape" the news, not mentioning Paul
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- Anonymous Coward, 17 Aug 2011 @ 12:50pm
  
  Re: AP are a bunch of Progressive Tools
  Every time I think people couldn't possibly be this delusional, someone like you shows up to prove me wrong.
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Beaker1991, 13 Aug 2011 @ 9:19pm

Question
Since these people are running for public office, should/would not any "clip" of them be public domain? As FOX is suppose to be providing a public service so that information from the debate is disseminated to the public.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Aug 2011 @ 2:52pm

If I were shareholder of AP I would be having a word with the board members right soon.
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Dan Zee (profile), 15 Aug 2011 @ 7:55am

Smear Fox News
I agree with many of the other commentators that grabbing clips is pretty standard practice and this report seems created just to smear Fox News as if it's some sort of Pravda of the Republican Party. Very strange report.
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