Police Caught Tasing Teen Without Warning

from the is-that-really-the-best-use? dept

Tue, Sep 27th 2011 7:37am — Mike Masnick

quack points us to a story in which police in London Ontario came to break up a fight among some teens. Rather than say anything, asking the participants to stop, or even holding any of the participants, a cameraphone video from someone across the street shows the cop just walk into the area and immediately shoot his taser into one kid's face. A report on the incident has the police saying that the officer acted appropriately. The mother of the kid who was tased argues otherwise. She says her son was the victim, was attacked by two other boys and was trying to defend himself when he got tased. Furthermore, the taser got stuck in his face and had to be removed by medical professionals.

Of course, if the whole thing weren't on videotape, most people would probably have taken the police officers' word on the story. But the video shows that he made no other effort to stop the fight, when it seems clear that he easily could have used less dangerous methods. Hell, by the time he gets to the area and shoots the kid with the taser, the two boys have already separated. He easily could have stopped the fight by stepping into the space between the two of them.

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: canada, police, taser, warnings

242 Comments

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread

aguywhoneedstenbucks (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:09am

To Protect and To Serve
The person with the camera phone will be hauled to jail so that the police can Protect this guys job and Serve their own self interests.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:39am

Single cop, working alone, facing a street brawl.... I think he did exactly the right thing. He ended the situation directly.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jay (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:41am

Re:
... When it was almost over anyway.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Digger, 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:45am

Re:
The fight was already ended. The cop's a bully, and should be imprisoned for unwarranted assault. They should be fired and lose all pension and benefits before being imprisoned for abusing their position for personal jollies.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
WDS (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:45am

While I think the tasing was over the top, it certainly looks like the person tased was the aggressor and not defending himself.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Digger, 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:46am

Re:
also - the next time you're pulled over by a single cop, working alone, the first thing the cop should do after you stop is tase you? Cool, let me know how that feels.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Digger, 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:48am

Re:
Unless the video shows the complete fight from start to finish, you have no way of determining who the aggressor was.

Perhaps the two kids who picked the fight got their asses handed to them by a pissed off, adrenaline pumping through their veins teen.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Doe, 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:51am

I couldn't tell for sure from the video who was the aggressor. Maybe the cop thought he knew. Either way, a verbal warning should have been issued before going right to the taser.

That being said, I wouldn't want to be in the cops shoes. A local cop followed a robbery suspect and was attacked by the suspect and is now a paraplegic. A fight may seem childish at times, but it can carry serious consequences.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:52am

Re: Re:
Curious how one can discern that it was almost over.

Curious who took the video and how it happened to be recording.

Does seem to appear as if two "fist sessions" took place, each with a pause where persons stepped back.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Spaceboy (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:52am

Re:
lol that's how you define a street brawl? Pretty weak even for an AC.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The Incoherent One (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:54am

Re:
No one says that a cop cannot be cautious when confronting a situation like that. Blindly tasing someone like that should never be okay. From 10 ft away he would have had plenty of time to react of attacked, but a verbal "knock it off" should have been his first course of action.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Spaceboy (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:00am

Re:
The Internet is full of stories where bad things happen to good people. In your example the cop was being a cop. Being a cop means you take on a certain amount of risk.

The cop in the above video didn't even announce his presence or give a warning. He tased a guy in the face. Again without warning. He had no way of knowing what was happening and his life wasn't in immediate danger, nor were the lives of the other people.

He walked up to the guy, he didn't run. There was no sense of urgency in his actions.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Nate (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:00am

semantics are everything
I have an alternative view on this situation:

The kid wasn't tased; he was _shot_ with a Taser.

A Taser is shaped like a gun, is used as an alternative to a gun, and can kill someone if misused. The operative word here should be shot, not tased. It might seem like a small thing but the word shot has a much worse mental image than the word tased. One feels violent and the other does not.

Needless to say, I think the office misused the Taser when he shot the kid.

Stuff like this will continue to occur so long as a Taser is not viewed with the same seriousness as other weapons such as guns.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
crade (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:00am

I certainly agree that we should be allowed to video the police, but I don't agree with jumping on every out of context grainy video. Corruption, actual malice are things to watch for. This is (read: could very well be) just a cop not knowing how dangerous a violent situation is until afterword when you can sit in safety and pour over a video.

" if the whole thing weren't on videotape, most people would probably have taken the police officers' word on the story"
What is the officers word on the story? Where is the part where he is lying about what happened?

Also, of course the mother says he's the victim and it was all the other kid's fault. It's always the other kid's fault.

The nice thing is that we have this video as evidence, which should help in any lawsuit or trial but that doesn't mean it tells the full story. I believe procedures around tazer use are under scrutiny recently in Canada as well, so videos such as these might help with that as well.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:00am

Re:
A rifle with non-lethal rounds would've ended the situation directly too. With a bonus: he could've shot the kid from across the street.

Hurray for excessive use of force!

/sarc
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Doe, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:00am

Re: Re:
I knew someone would misread what I wrote. Read the first paragraph, slowly. I stated he should have issued a warning. My second paragraph does not excuse his behavior, only states why he might have gone straight to the taser, to avoid risk to himself.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Doe, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:02am

Re: Re:
Wow, two people misread my post. See my reply to TIO above.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
anonymous, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:06am

i think this cop, the police force and the city want to be extremely grateful that the kid wasn't hit in the eye. i can feel a law suit coming here, and rightly so, in my opinion. anything the kid gets could have been substantially more had he been blinded!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Spaceboy (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:06am

Re: semantics are everything
Interesting. When I was just out of High School in 1986 or so my friends and I were in to paintball. We would shoot each other in our neighborhood. We never shot at anyone else or cars, just us. No one paid us any mind and we didn't bother anyone else.

Today paintball guns are considered firearms.

There is a massive marketing and legal effort behind the Taser brand to make sure the public does not associate it with lethal force. This is part of the reason that they people are 'tased' and not 'shot with a taser'.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/05/02/20080502taser0503.html
[ link to this | view in thread ]
WarOtter (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:14am

This may be the wrong crowd to mention it...
... but people need to realize that the risk of injury is much greater when physical restraint and force is used. I know pepper spray and taser might seem to be more dangerous, but the risk of lasting injury is MUCH lower(if I remember the statistics about 60% lower) than if the police have to wrestle someone to the ground.

I'm not commenting on the usage here, and policies should be in place for their usage. I'm just saying that before you go condemning their usage overall, please know that the alternative will mean more injuries and unnecessary deaths than they ever cause. (side note: I have been both tased and pepper sprayed. Yes it sucks when it happens, but then you man up and grow a pair)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:14am

Re: Re:
If I am beating someone, yeah, I would expect him to take action.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
crade (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:15am

Re: Re:
Maybe pouring over the video afterward in complete safety you can see that a tazer wasn't neccesary but thats a far cry from blindly tazing someone. For all we know the last time this cop arrested this guy for fighting he tried to stab him with a knife. Just because we have no context doesn't mean the cop doesn't.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:17am

Re:
The kid should be extreme grateful that, even after repeated illegal acts, fighting in the street, and causing a public nuisance that all he got was a tasing.

Cause and effect here - don't fight, no requirement for police to use non-lethal force to break it up.

I wish people would take responsibility for their own actions and understand why they are where they are. The entire situation is avoidable, and it doesn't start with the cop (but he certainly ends it).

They yutz with the camera yelling "you shot him you shot him" over and over again isn't helping out much, is he?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DCX2, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:18am

He was SHOT IN THE FACE
WTF is wrong with you people? Arguing over whether the use of the taser was excessive force?

Whether the taser was appropriate or not may be debatable, but the officer shot the teenager IN THE FACE. The teen needed medical professionals to remove the taser. And yet the vast majority of commenters don't even seem to care about this detail, when in my opinion it is the deciding factor in making this a totally inappropriate use of force which rightfully deserves a lawsuit, even if the kid who got shot in the face started the fight
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Stephen, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:20am

Tase first, and let the lawyers sort them out! :-D
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Richard (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:22am

Re: Re:
Just shows the cop lacked the kind of "presence of authority" that used to be burned into the profession.

I remember a teacher at my school breaking up a fight like this by just shouting at the boys to stop - he then commented that the deputy head would not have needed to raise his voice - and the headmaster would only have had to look - whilst a ypoung teacher would have had to go and get between the qrring parties physically. Oddly enough the young teacher was the only one who could have stopped the fight physically - the others were relying on psychology. Seems to me that being routinely armed (even with a tazer) makes police too lazy to learn how to do things properly.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DCX2, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:23am

Re:
Yeah, the solo kid could have been the aggressor...because it's definitely a smart thing to jump two guys by yourself.

/sarcasm
[ link to this | view in thread ]
crade (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:23am

Re:
Better safe than sorry, better sued than dead.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:27am

Mike, I also have to say I love the title.

"Police Caught Tasing Teen Without Warning"

"caught" suggests that they are doing something specifically illegal (not proven). Perhaps the more logicial is:

"Video Shows Police Tasing Teen Without Warning".

The assumption also is that the police had not been on the scene before, that the fight happened only in this location, and isn't part of a large situation, or one that occurred around the corner in front of the cop already. We just don't know - it's an incomplete video.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jimr (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:30am

I would appear, just from the video, that undo (unreasonable) force was used to stop the situation.

Just because you have a weapon in your hand does not give you any right to use it when not necessary. Tasing like shooting someone should be seen as one of the last options.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Prisoner 201, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:33am

Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
I agree. Why the face? High risk of damage to the eyes, and any resulting scars will be visible no matter how you dress.

A more proper target would have been the chest area or the legs.

And at least a courtesy "cease and desist or I will shoot!" would have been nice.

Also, re: safer than wrestling, falling uncontrollably from standing is quite dangerous. Your head falls 5-6 feet down into the street. I have ben told by two different cops that its common for people to suffer more damage falling down than the actual punch that made them fall down.

So on the whole, less violence is better.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
cc (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:44am

Re:
Tasers can kill. Maybe next time the cop should just shoot somebody in the leg. Perhaps that will be you, while you were getting mugged.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Bengie, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:44am

Re:
"Single cop, working alone, facing a street brawl.... I think he did exactly the right thing. He ended the situation directly."

By attacking the victim?..according to the mother anyway.

So, all I have to do is "pretend" to want to start a fight with someone, and a police officer will taze them? Wow, now I can NEVER get in trouble while still getting what I want.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
MikeC (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:44am

I am in the camp of out of context -- I don't see that much wrong with his actions and give him the benifit of the doubt. Could it be to agressive, probably, but I don't know the context so I won't judge to harshly. The cop didn't start the fight, it's just his job to end it before it escalates - who knows what they were yelling - maybe the kid was saying he's going to be shooting someone.

The kid or kids could have a history, the cop is by himself. Does anyone know - maybe he broke up a fight last night with these kids, or they are known gang members, previous arrestees, or just boys who are being boys. Odd no one on news front seems to ask this question - it's not the storyline that sells now is it.

Also if he'd called for backup and the kid(s) got hurt he would be crucified for not stepping in quick enough. I doubt he aimed for the kids face too - tasers aren't that accurate.

Another point, he's out numbered 3 to 1 min (lots of other folks around that might get involved) he's at big risk of someone behind him or outside the immediate fight, etc.. pulling a knife or gun or whatever. His first duty is to go home alive IMHO.

Lastly it is funny though, in these situations, the one who gets the bullet or taser or whatever always seems to be angel among the devils.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:45am

Re: To Protect and To Serve
No, he will be hauled to jail to protect the public interest.

Sometimes you just have to have faith in government when they do something.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:48am

Re:
not be that guy, but, it's undue not undo...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Thomas (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:53am

Good to know..
that it's not only cops in the U.S. who don't hesitate to use excessive force. I never cease to be amazed at what the police do and then the so-called "internal affairs" investigates, but the real goal of "IA" is to say the cop acted correctly.

Nowdays, people are rightly worried if a cop approaches them. It doesn't matter if you are simply taking a walk; you're subject to pepper spray, being tasered, thrown to the ground and arrested at any time.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DCX2, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:54am

Re:
Do you really think any of your speculation could possibly justify shooting the kid in the face with the taser?

Shooting him in the chest or leg, I could see that point being argued. In the face? Nothing justifies shooting anyone in the face.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Dave, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:54am

Re: Re:
Moral of your story: Don't get jumped by two guys, and if you do, make sure you are obviously losing when the cops get there.

I wish people would take responsibility for their own actions and understand why they are where they are. The entire situation is avoidable, and it doesn't start with the cop (but he certainly ends it).

I wish cops would take resposiblity for their actions and understand that their authority comes with a higher level of scrutiny. At least it should. The taser was avoidable, and shouldn't be the first thing the cop tries.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:58am

Re: Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
He doesn't appear to be aiming for the face, the guy is bobbing up and down like a prize fighter. I would say he was aiming for the chest, and fired just as the guy sort of ducked down and lowered his head.

Takes two to tango,and this guy was certainly a moving target (and aware of the police presence, and that the officer had a weapon in their hand).
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Dave, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:59am

Re:
No. He was caught. If there wasn't any video, it would all be swept under the rug as "appropriate action". It probably still will, but at least there's some attention to it.

And why are you advocating non-partiality here? Seriously? This isn't a news report. I think Mike can use inflamatory headlines if he wants to. Personally, I think he downplayed it a bit.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:01am

Re:
I hope something similar happens to you or your child so we can THEN listen to your bitch ass whine about how wrong it was. Street BRAWL, REALLY?!?!? I've seen worse fights in the kindergarten class I teach. If that was my kid, I'd just burn the asshole cops house down
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:09am

Re: Re: Re:
Or maybe you just need to learn to be clearer than mud.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:15am

But we're police officers we're not trained to handle this kind of violence.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:15am

Re: Re: Re:
Curious how you don't give your name and badge number, officer.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:16am

Re: Re: semantics are everything
"What is not popular is the discharge of paintball guns in public, as opposed to in an authorized recreational establishment."

http://www.generalcode.com/samples/04Spr_1.html

What does this look like to you? Another governmental attempt to limit competition (must one pay to attend these authorized recreational establishments?). Of course it's done in the name of safety (and I do think there is some truth to that).

and they call this free market capitalism.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:17am

Re: Re: Re: semantics are everything
[emphasis added]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Niall (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:18am

Re: Re: Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
If th policeman isn't competent to shoot accurately at that short distance, then he should have held back.

Can you imagine explaining in a firearms case:
"Sorry, I shot the kid in the chest from 10 feet away, although I was aiming for his leg."
"Sorry, I hit the other person than the one I was aiming for."

Inappropriate use of force, inappropriately targeted and with no attempt to do anything except be lazy. I hope the kid gets a good lawyer!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:23am

Re: Re: Re:
And imagine if you had a taser at the time (not hard to get and fairly cheep), what do you expect the cop to do, shoot you with a real gun?

There's taking action, and then there's unreasonable force.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Insider, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:27am

Re:
"Single Cop"...
Should've called for backup if he can uphold the law in a constitutional manner.
"working alone",
See above

"facing a street brawl".
Well... he wasn't facing anything. He chose to intervene, even though he wasn't prepared to handle it properly and his actions resulted in us questioning the integrity of the police.

PUBLIC OFFICIALS ARE HELD TO HIGHER STANDARDS THAN PRIVATE CITIZENS. Period. Don't like it? Get a different job.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:32am

Re: Re: Re:
"For all we know the last time this cop arrested this guy for fighting he tried to stab him with a knife. Just because we have no context doesn't mean the cop doesn't."

Doesn't mean the actions weren't over the top and not procedure. In fact, that may mean that the cop is physiologically not capable of doing his job. If he gets traumatized by one event and then cannot properly do his duty in others...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:37am

Re:
This is an officer who quite calmly walked into a fight, stepped between the two fighting, and shot the smaller person in the face with a tazer. Defend it any way you like, the cop was at fault. There is audio. Maybe you should watch it, again, and listen for the cop identifying himself as he approached? And why did he not tell the other person to stay where he was? Instead, the other boy picks up his backpack and makes ready to leave.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:40am

Re: Re: Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
Of COURSE the kid was bobbing and weaving. Someone was punching him. Wouldn't you want to be dodging? Would he have been bobbing up and down if the cop had identified himself? We'll never know.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
right, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:44am

Re:
Maybe this a common place for Teen violence or he knows the two "boys"( the size of men) from past events where they ran. I didn't see any other people try to stop the fight before the cop showed up.If you saw this fight going on would you try to stop it? most likely not because you are worried you will get punched stabbed or shot. Also does not look like the best part of town to be working as a cop.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Marcus Carab (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:45am

Re:
believe procedures around tazer use are under scrutiny recently in Canada as well

Yes they are, after the RCMP used them to murder* a Polish immigrant for the crime of being confused and irritable in an airport.

(*I do not use this word lightly or flippantly. After the initial incident, I was completely ready to accept it as a tragic mistake - if only the officers had admitted that from the start. A simple "we made a grievous error while doing a difficult job" acknowledgment would have made for a whole different story - but instead they chose to attempt a coverup with deliberately misrepresented facts. It shows they knew that what they did was wrong AND that they were not guilt-free enough to admit a mistake. Thus, I call it murder.)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:47am

Re: To Protect and To Serve
not in canada he won't. canadians have sense.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Marcus Carab (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:48am

Re: Re: Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
"Look folks - the cop identified an illegal situation, so he ran in firing blindly with no understanding of the situation! What, do you expect more from law enforcement officials? It takes two to tango - you can't shoot someone if they don't exist to get hit!"
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:49am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
you might be astonished to hear that not all canadian cops even carry "guns" in the american sense of the term. taser might have been all he was even packing. looks like he did the right thing to me.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HothMonster, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:52am

Re: Re: Re:
and don't know if anything that happened during that dance qualifies as a beating
[ link to this | view in thread ]
right, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:53am

Re: Re: Re: Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
(57)correct don't fight in the streets and will not get shot with a taser. As for in the face problem. Yes I would say im sorry I got you in the face but I still would have tased you
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HothMonster, 27 Sep 2011 @ 9:57am

Re: Re:
now that clearly depends on the person

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdIITxOcdwY

though mike valley may not be the best example because i dont think anyone ever excused him of being smart
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:00am

Re: Re:
I can grant you all of those points. However, non of it excuses shoot the young man in the F_CKING FACE!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:01am

Re:
"caught" suggests that they are doing something specifically illegal (not proven).

Horse shit. You can be "caught" doing a lot of things that aren't illegal. And being "Caught on camera" is a common phrase. Someone could take a picture of you at the mall with your friends for instance. "Hey, I caught Johnny AC at the mall on Saturday."

When your mother caught you jacking off in the bathroom, it was just embarrassing to you. That doesn't make it "specifically illegal."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
right, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:04am

Re: Re: Re:
I agree he should be sorry for hitting him in the face but nothing more nothing less.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:06am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If it is true that he did not announce himself as police and tried nothing other then shooting the first person in his cross hairs, then it's excessive use of force. He did not determine that the use of the device was necessary, thus it's irreverent if it was truly necessary or not.

All the cop had to do was yell (loudly and forcefully as they are trained) "NYPD, (or whatever department he was from) break it up". If he did that, this would not even be a question. Ether the kids would stop fighting, or he would be justified stepping it up (yes, even the taser).
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HothMonster, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:06am

Re: Re: Re:
so rather than standing back and telling them to stop (which they were doing when they realized he was there) he walked right into the middle of the group and tazed one of the kids, in the face, for his safety. got it
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jay (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:07am

Re: Re: Re:
Judging from what the mother said, and how the teen was coming over to the police, I would say the fight was almost over.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PrometheeFeu (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:08am

Re:
What's wrong with a progressive escalation?

1. "Stop! Police!"
2. Pulls out Tazer. "This is a Tazer. Stop or I shoot."
3. Use Tazer.

Those were just a bunch of kids fighting. They most likely would have just stopped as soon as they noticed the cop was there.

That guy should be fired and thrown in jail for assault.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:11am

Re: Re: Re: Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
Hey Marcus Carab you talentless schmuck, why don't you actually watch the video first?

The officer didn't fire blindly.

If you want to be an asshole, do it on your own posts. Your shit is so weak, you should spend your time working on that rather than trying to be "cute" and put words in my mouth.

You are truly a fucking asshole.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Marcus Carab (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
And you might be astonished to hear that a thorough public inquiry concluded that they were not in fact justified in using the tazer, and that they later deliberately misrepresented the facts about the incident to investigators. The report called their conduct "shameful". The Centre for Public Complaints also called the tazer use "premature and inappropriate", and said the officers' stories were "not deemed credible"
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mr. Smarta**, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:12am

If that was my boy...
If I was the mother of that boy, I'd walk right up to the officer, grab the stun gun away from him saying "Gimme that damn stun gun!", then proceed to shock some sense into that boy.

"Don't you know that fighting is wrong???" *zzzaaaap*
"Don't you know that fighting doesn't solve anything???" *zzzzaaap*
"Who broke that lamp in the living room five years ago??? That was you, wasn't it???" *zzzzaaaap*
"To hell with the belt!! I'm buyin' one of these contraptions. And the next time you go off like that, I'm gonna shock your a** again!!" *zzzzaaaaap* *zzzzaaaaap*
[ link to this | view in thread ]
right, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:12am

Re: Re:
also note @0:09 in the video . The boy who got tased was behind the door with time to walk away from the situation. but no he chose to fight.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:13am

This is foolish. The officer should have just shot him with his firearm. This would have accomplished several things:

1. The suspect would have been eliminated entirely with no chance of getting up to harm the officer,
2. No one else around the scene (especially the other suspect) would be willing to challenge the officer after displaying his willingness to use deadly force.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
A Different Dave, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:15am

Re: Re:
"I've seen worse fights in the kindergarten class I teach. If that was my kid, I'd just burn the asshole cops house down"

Please don't teach my kindergarten child.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:15am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Curious on how you (or I) don't either.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:18am

Re:
It's funny how desperate you get when you have no argument.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Marcus Carab (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Wow total mis-reply. Thought your comment about guns was in reference to the RCMP issue below. Sorry.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Marcus Carab (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:24am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
The officer didn't fire blindly.

Yes, I am aware he had the capacity of sight at the time. It's called a figure of speech.

do it on your own posts

Er, what posts? I don't exactly write here very often. I haven't posted anything in weeks.

You are truly a fucking asshole.

Yup. I'm a big supporter of all the standard True Fucking Asshole causes, like "holding police to high standards of behaviour" and "not shooting kids in the face"
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:28am

Don't act like animals and you won't get tased.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Beta (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:35am

with a gun in your hand you see bullseyes everywhere
I've broken up worse fights than that without a weapon, and without suffering (or inflicting) injury, when it wasn't even my job. All it really takes is a little courage and intelligence; instead, this guy has a badge and a weapon.

I'd love to know what story he would have spun if he hadn't known about the video.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:38am

Re: Re: To Protect and To Serve
We did until we elected Harper.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aguywhoneedstenbucks (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:38am

Re: Re: To Protect and To Serve
I have no faith in the system in any country.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
right, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:43am

Re: with a gun in your hand you see bullseyes everywhere
If the other boy that was very much losing the fight tased the other boy would that have been ok?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PrometheeFeu (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:44am

Re: Re: Re:
"For all we know the last time this cop arrested this guy for fighting he tried to stab him with a knife."

Now the last time that kid encountered a cop, he got Tazed without a warning or anything. That seems like justification for him to start carrying a gun and shoot any cop he sees.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PrometheeFeu (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:47am

Re:
"This is (read: could very well be) just a cop not knowing how dangerous a violent situation is until afterword when you can sit in safety and pour over a video."

Are you arguing the proper response when ignorant of the specifics is to resort to violence? If this cop can't deal with the stress of being in a dangerous situation, maybe he should do something else. But under no circumstances is it acceptable for a cop to use anything but the most minimal amount of force necessary.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:50am

Re: Re: Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
Watch the video again. Sure he was bobbing up and down, but at no point did his head get low enough to reach the level of the highest his chest ever got. The kids bobbing might have kept the cop from being able to shoot him within 5 or so inches vertically, but the chest is a much bigger target than the amount of bobbing the kid was doing. Had he even attempted to shoot the kid in the middle of his chest while at the highest point of a bob, even when the kid was at the lowest part of a bob the taser would have still hit him in the chest.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:50am

I always thought that the Police had to respond with an appropriate level of force and only as much force is required to defuse the situation.

If the Officer had 1. Identified himself 2. Ordered the suspects to stop and get on the ground and then they refused or kept fighting? Then the Tazer or sidearm would come into play. Again with orders to stop and get on the ground.

I would hate to see what happened if there was any kind of weapon involved. Would the office have shot him with his sidearm without identifying himself?

I think that the kid has some good grounds for suing the officer on this one.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:56am

Re: Re:
racist
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PrometheeFeu (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:03am

Re:
"His first duty is to go home alive IMHO."

No it's not. His first duty is to not violate the rights of individuals. If that means he leaves in a body-bag, well, that's sad but that's the way it is. If he can't handle that, he should look for a different job. Also please consider his actions. After he shot his Tazer, he is now close to everyone involved without any long-range options. He is now at more of a risk of being knifed than if he had stayed back and called a warning.

"Also if he'd called for backup and the kid(s) got hurt he would be crucified for not stepping in quick enough."

Yes well, there was an option between just waiting for back-up and walking up and shooting. He could have started with a warning and then shot with his Tazer. That cop deserves jail time.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:03am

Re: Re:
No requirement for police to use non-lethal force to break up a fight between teenagers? Seriously?

You might want to take a gander at the Criminal Code of Canada before you open your mouth. Specifically section 26:

Every one who is authorized by law to use force is criminally responsible for any excess thereof according to the nature and quality of the act that constitutes the excess. [R.S., c.C-34, s.26.]
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PrometheeFeu (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:07am

Re: Re:
Wait you mean the cop who cop who used his Tazer was afraid of getting involved? Seems he was perfectly happy to jump in the middle to shoot that one guy with his Tazer. On the other hand, calling out: "Stop! Police!" would just be an unacceptable risk.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:08am

Re: Re: Re:
You can't beat emotions with logic :) Emotions gravitate to extremes while logic - to the middle ground. Cheers.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
You're arguing with someone who wants kids to be shot in face. You know, because these kids today are acting kind of shifty and need to learn to never do anything wrong.

And cops never do anything wrong.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HothMonster, 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:12am

Re: Re: Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
"the guy is bobbing up and down like a prize fighter"

or like a guy with a tazer aimed at his face
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Daddy Warbucks, 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:15am

Kids
What if these KIDS were joking around?
What if these KIDS were provoking this type of response?
What if these KIDS were acting in a stupid KID movie?

Assessing the situation so no one gets hurt is the Police's First Priority.
You don�t know what was going on and neither did that office.

I've seen story after story of Police perpetrating violence on others without being provoked in the name of "Controlling" the situation.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PrometheeFeu (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:17am

Re: Re:
I'm sure that's the way many cops think. And I probably would too if I were in their shoe. So let's change the laws to adjust the incentives for them.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jay (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:21am

Re:
" I believe procedures around tazer use are under scrutiny recently in Canada as well, so videos such as these might help with that as well."

If I recall correctly, the US had 350+ wrongful deaths occur because of tasers last year.

These are people such as Kelly Thomas

Audrecas Davis

Lareko Williams

They also are used as pain compliance, even causing death as evidenced in the article for one Michael Evans. The point I am making is that tasers are a dangerous responsibility. I wouldn't want officers to be equipped with this ability to harm people, immobilize and bully them simply because they have a badge. I would not want a police force who looks to resolve problems with aggressive behavior first without trying to figure out what is going on in the situation.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:22am

some people get what they deserve
If you are fighting in the street like an animal...maybe being tased isn't the worst thing. Ok the kid got tased in the face, maybe the cops aim was off but a taser is a safe way to get someone to comply. Yes, i know tasers have killed some people, but that is a small percentage. And hopefully this kid will think twice before engaging in such behavior in the future.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
point.vector (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:22am

cop was by himself...
No cop is by theirself. They have a radio...he wasn't being directly attacked. He could have called for backup. He DECIDED to intervene. He didn't have to. It was three kids fighting, that's what kids do. The cop should be fired because: 1 He consciously decided to shoot the kid in the face, or 2. he is a terrible enough shot to miss the kids center mass from three feet away. Pick one, needs to lose job. He is an old man who cares nothing for the kids on the street and feels compeled to discipline them because he is an authority. He is in the middle of the suburbs with alot of other kids around, not in the middle of the ghetto. You people need to quit watching so many cop dramas. Not everything is as critical as it is on TV.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:23am

Side note:
Under the law in Canada a Tazer is considered a prohibited firearm. The public cannot own one, nor can they own pepper spray or mace. Under that definition you would be charged with the same thing whether you were carrying a Tazer or a machine gun.

Just because its a conducted energy weapon does not mean the Officer should not have to follow the same rules as they do when they use a gun.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
MikeC (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:31am

Re: Re:
Like I said, I doubt he was aiming for the face, that was unlucky - for both of them.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jay (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:31am

Re: This may be the wrong crowd to mention it...
Actually, you are commenting on the usage. You're saying the risk of lasting injury is much lower, which flies in the face of the fact that this particular individual was tased in the face. If it had been 2 cm lower, the teen may have been grievously injured.

Then to say that people should "man up and grow a pair" when few see a need for it to be used here?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PRMan, 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:38am

Re: Re: Re:
Seriously...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
MikeC (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:42am

Re: Re:
>"His first duty is to go home alive IMHO."

>>No it's not. His first duty is to not violate the rights of individuals. If that means he leaves in a body-bag, well, that's sad but that's the way it is.

Wrong. He didn't violate anyone's rights.. In the US you ahve 1st amendment rights but you can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater. You don't have the right to attack someone and not expect a response. In the video the kid had a chance to run away but didn't, he attacked - was he the agressor/victim? Who knows. Cop probably didn't but he certainly doesn't need to risk his life to find out. Not knowing the context, he might have made the right decision. You don't know, I don't know, but based on the video, I will give him benifit of the doubt. Should he have handled it different, perhaps, but your or anyones monday morning quarterbacking doesn't count -- unless there is more evidence than this video, I will be on the cop's side.

As to waiting, he walked up and took action. Once again, with nothing more than this video -- you can't evaluate the entire situation you can't correctly judge. Would be nice to have more info. Does the cop have a history of excessive force, does the kid(s) have history.

Still I not you didn't comment on the fact that video only shows one side, all the kid(s) were perfect angels right? If you are judging the actions of context why do you just accept that side? Easy to and fits the every cop is a jerk (plenty are BTW) .. mantra. The guy who pepper sprayed the ladies -- he should be crucified -- plenty of context and evidence he was wrong, here not the case.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
MikeC (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:43am

Re: Re: Re:
BTW - I do understand this is in Canada -- US civil rights is an example.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 11:54am

Re: Re: Re:
The officer shot a kid in the face with a taser without warning. He put himself in a more dangerous position than he would have been in if he stood back and identified himself, with his taser at the ready.

That's all their really is to it. The officer used excessive force. Read Section 26 of the Criminal Code of Canada - Every one who is authorized by law to use force is criminally responsible for any excess thereof according to the nature and quality of the act that constitutes the excess. The officer should be charged, there was no reason to use a weapon to break up a fist fight.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
brianberneker (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:00pm

Taser = Gun
When the TASER was initially introduced, it was with hesitation and passed mainly because it was proposed as a safer alternative to drawing a deadly firearm, but warranting the same protocol. As demonstrated in BC with the needless death of a Polish man by TASER this restraint is nonexistent.

Anyone who says that use of a TASER is appropriate should ask themselves if it would be appropriate to draw a firearm in the same situation, as this was the standard of use for which it was approved.

Instead of respecting use of a TASER according to the same caution one would using a firearm, cops are treating it like an alternative to pepper spray or it would seem at times just for kicks. If the police continue failing to respect this weapon and treat it like a toy, it should be taken away from them.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:10pm

Re: Re:
I don't know, but to me, it looks like he was assuming an offensive stand against the officer. So I won't call it way too much of an overreaction.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
right, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:10pm

Act like an animal in the street get treated like one.

cop:1
boy and his mommy: 0
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Derek Kerton (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:12pm

Re: semantics are everything
"The kid wasn't tased; he was _shot_ with a Taser."

I disagree.

A taser is very different from a gun that fires bullets.

The Inuit have a hundred words for snow, because the difference matters to them. We should probably have a few different words for police weapons, since the difference also matters a great deal.

People, like you, have an agenda when they try to change language to be less specific. You do so because your agenda is served by a conflagration of two different things. But specific language is far more useful, and more descriptive of truth and reality. By using "tased" there is no confusion about which weapon the cop ABused.

Let people argue about whether tasers are lethal or not. Let them argue about whether that was too much force or not. But don't try to change the terminology to make it sound worse.

I've seem a similar effort to expand the definition of "rape" to include things like molestation or groping. While I sympathize with the intent of the people using the word incorrectly, I do not agree with making language less specific, and less useful to suit any political agenda.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ron Rezendes (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:13pm

Re:
I hope you take the next taser to the face - just so some troll somewhere can say "I think he did exactly the right thing. He ended the situation directly."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Fenderson (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:13pm

Re: some people get what they deserve
What percentage level do the wrongful deaths have to reach before it's not OK any more?

My problem with the taser, and I have a big one, is not that it might kill. In a sense, it's not lether enough. Despite, in my city anyway, being promised that tasers would only be used in situations where a gun would otherwise have been employed, the fact that most people can get shot with a taser and live has led to rampant and massive abuse of them. They are used well beyond situations where a gun would otherwise have been used.

They are used to enforce compliance from nonviolent but noncompliant people. They are used, like in this situation, as a measure of first resort as an easy way to "pacify" people by lazy cops. They are used to overtly torture.

If they were more dangerous, we members of the public might be a bit safer from abusive or lazy cops. As it is, tasers make it all too easy for cops to demonstrate one fo the main reasons that they aren't trusted or respected by a very large percentage of the population.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
right, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:17pm

Re: Re:
If i get into a fist fight in the street where I have the chance to walk away and i get tased. I'm sure ill think twice about fighting in the street.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HothMonster, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:18pm

Re:
oh so your racist and you abuse animals, cool
[ link to this | view in thread ]
right, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:21pm

Re: Re:
If a wild dog is in the street about to attack someone yes I would put the dog down if that is what you are asking.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:24pm

Re: Re: Re:
So now I have to be careful about how I stand around a police officer or risk getting Cheney'ed in the face?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:25pm

Re:
The mother is probably lying,because form that video what ones sees is that the kid tased starting the physical contact.

But the cop tasing him was just unnecessary, it was over when he did his thing, he should be reprimanded, maybe he was afraid to get hurt or something.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:27pm

Re: Re:
Well or the boy was the real aggressor, we may never know but what is in the video is the tased kid initiating the fight, that doesn't look good at all.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
I-Blz, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:27pm

Re: Re: Re:
Wow. Did you just bring racism into this? The "bad part of town" is not a racist statement, by any means. You can have, blacks, whites, asians, indians, and native americans all living together, whether that be in a high-rise apartment, or in the worst slum in the world.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HothMonster, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:28pm

Re: Re: Re:
and black teenagers in a pretty mild fist fight = wild dogs, got it

just make sure you shoot the dog in the face right when you walk up to it instead of seeing if it has a collar or responds to voice commands
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ron Rezendes (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:31pm

Re: Re: semantics are everything
"Let people argue about whether tasers are lethal or not."

There is no argument there - people have died after being SHOT with a taser. The corpses are all the proof you need.

As for the semantics - your twist is somewhat misleading as well. Yes, a gun shoots bullets. A taser shoots electrodes, there is still a projectile. The bullet comes to a rest and there is no more interaction from the projectile discharged. The electrode can be activated as often as desired after impact for as long as desired, until the power supply is drained. You may want to reconsider your argument.

Certainly a gun is more deadly than a taser on a shot to shot basis. No argument there.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HothMonster, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:34pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
i was referring more to him being afraid of being shot or stabbed by two young teenagers dancing around each other throwing weak punches while a gaggle of kids looked on
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:34pm

Re:
That is his job it comes with the territory, if he can't work under those conditions he shouldn't be a cop on the streets.

Is like being a lifeguard and being afraid of water.

Also I'm fully aware that cops are only called when things get ugly and so they have a distorted view of people they start thinking that everyone is a criminal and start acting like everyone is a criminal and there is no psychological test to see those burned up cops.

It may explain but it doesn't justify what the guy did there, even though I believe the aggressor was the kid tased.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:39pm

Re: Re: semantics are everything
There is no such word as tased. When people say tased it's a nice way of saying shot with a taser. Like using the word googled, means I used google to look something up.

A taser is a electroshock weapon, that's something that seems to be overlooked or forgotten about these days. They are a weapon, possibly lethal and should be viewed that way until there is conclusive evidence either way.

If they're so harmless why can't the public have easy and legal access to them?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
Your reply pretty much proves that he accurately summarized your post.

You just don't like how you sound.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
right, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:40pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
A) Im a black man
B) If the animal ( Dog I used as an example) was in attack mode as in visibly attacking ( like in the video ) or about to ( that's not hard to tell) Yes I would tase it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
IB Forum, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:41pm

Re: Anonymous Coward
I cannot think of an appropriate response to your inane comment (it is typical for you) other than to say you have named yourself very well !
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HothMonster, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:42pm

Re: Re: Re: semantics are everything
i think his point is you dont say "shot with a gun" you just say shot and the with a gun is implied. If I got shot with something other than a gun I would specify, "I got shot with a paintball". If I got shot with bullets I would just say, "I've been Shot!!!"

I think tazed, incorporates the shooting aspect because as you said a tazer is a projectile. However there are non-projectile versions as well.

I agree that saying tazed is much more trivial than the actual action. But i agree with derrick that watering down the language isnt our best option. Rather people should be made more aware of the dangers of tazers and that they are not truly non-lethal.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:52pm

Re: Re:
From what I saw in the video, the smaller one as you called was the one dishing out all the pain on the other two, he also was the one who started jumping up and down on a defensive position signalling he probably was in fight mode and not flight, the other 2 boys were more calm.

So lets take this for what it is, failure to fallow proper procedure, he failed to make itself known, to identify itself as authority and to issue any commands before aggressive action was taken on an unnamed violent kid, which by his size could not have taken down the officer and didn't pose much of a threat to the officer either.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:54pm

Re: Re:
Don't the police in Canada carry pepper spray?

It works wonders for breaking up fights, I can attest to that.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 12:58pm

Re: Re:
Be serious the officer failed to anounce itself, failed to command, he just failed at accessing the situation.

Als, why use a taser first don't they have pepper spray in Canada?

It works wonders, and in this case it would be appropriate.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 1:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yes the boy was in fight mode that was visible he (the boy) was also the one who initiated or reinitiated the physical contact, but the officer failed to command authority, failed to make itself known and it failed to use appropriate force, since the boy was no threat physically to him, he was not yielding a weapon and had nothing on him that is visible that could be used as one, he was also half the size of the officer, which I'm sure also could have been carrying pepper spray which is a lot less lethal than a taser and works wonders for teenage brawls on the streets.

This officer should be reprimanded he failed at his job as a enforcer of the law.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Beta (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 1:13pm

Re: Re: with a gun in your hand you see bullseyes everywhere
In my opinion that would depend on who started the fight. Why do you ask?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 1:16pm

Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
Those "lazy" cops you are talking about put there lives on the line everyday. Yes I understand that police men and women are only human and as with any group you will have good ones and bad ones, but if you are in the middle of committing a crime I don't see how being shot by a taser is abusive or excessive. Don't be a criminal and you don't get tased!
And as for the cops...you talk all the crap you can about them but they are the first ones you call when something bad happens to you. They DO put there lives in danger everyday to keep criminals like this boy off the street. They get paid crappy wages to help serve and protect YOU! Not only that, they have families praying everyday they come home safe as they selflessly respond to YOUR calls! This boy was not permanently hurt, and thankfully the policeman wasn't either. Probably because he responded the way he did.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Spaceboy (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 1:38pm

Re: Re: semantics are everything
"Let people argue about whether tasers are lethal or not. Let them argue about whether that was too much force or not. But don't try to change the terminology to make it sound worse."

I couldn't agree with you more, except Taser International is doing just that by suing people that associate Taser with anyones death. Saying someone was shot with a Taser is correct. Just like you would say shot with a crossbow, stungun, paintball or nerf gun.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Almost Anonymous (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 1:44pm

Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
Ok "aim", now answer to some of his other points. Specifically, I've seen video of cops tasering people because they would not follow specific instructions like "get up from that chair". Absolutely no threat of violence, just disobedience. Is it ok to tase someone in that situation?

The correct answer is "No", but they do it anyway because the taser is considered non-lethal. If everyone saw a similar video of a cop schwacking someone upside the head once with his a police baton for not following instructions, everyone would be screaming bloody murder. But a taser? Meh.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Greevar (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 1:56pm

Re: Re: Re:
The obvious escapes you apparently. It wasn't just a coincidence that they were recording, those kids were probably fighting for a good while before they camera was out. Don't be so ignorant.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 1:56pm

Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
Um no they dont, being a cop is statistically one of the safest jobs you can have. Working on power lines is dangerous, working construction is VERY dangerous, being a cop is one of the safest jobs there is. This is statistical fact.

The reason you do not understand why it is excessive is because you do not understand, or perhaps have not even read, the law. Cops are instructed to use minimal force necessary to subdue a suspect. Key word, suspect. You used the operative word criminal to describe what was in fact a suspect. Criminal implies a conviction in a court of law. At that point, not knowing who initiated the violence before the officer arrived, ALL parties involved should have been treated as suspects. Not criminals. Self defense is not a crime.

Your ignorance of the law, and what it means to have a "dangerous job," is astounding.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 1:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
I say the answer is yes! When a cop tells you to do something you are suppose to do it! period!!! If someone whats to act like a child and be like "no, i wont do what you tell me" then tase the hell out of them! Being hit in the head with a baton IS excessive force while being tasered is NOT. People get more injuries when they are subdued by physical force than they do with tasers.
And like I said before, act like an animal and you will be treated like one.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Greevar (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 1:59pm

Re: Re: Re:
Oh, and it shouldn't be prefaced with the phrase "Get on the ground or I will taze you!"
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
hahahaha you make me laugh...using a taser is minimal force. and this so called "suspect' who i saw in the video fighting like an animal in the street, got exactly what he deserved. I only wish the cop had another taser to tase the other "suspect'.

And being a cop is NOT one of the safest jobs...I would love to know where you got that load of crap.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Marcus Carab (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
When a cop tells you to do something you are suppose to do it! period!!!

Where? Turkmenistan? Fuck off with your spastic fascist rants.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
fine, lets just have chaos and disorder in the streets!!!! do you really want to live in a lawless land????
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Marcus Carab (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
There is a huge spectrum of possibility in between lawlessness and your fascist fantasy of infallible police with absolute power. The fact that you don't see that is pretty sad.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
I also suspect that if you were getting raped or being beaten to death and a cop told that "suspect' to stop, you would totally wish he would!!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Dave, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:09pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
I want to live in a land with less '!!!!' and '????'.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Marcus Carab (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:09pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
Again, there's a big difference between cops with the power to stop rape and cops with the power to order anyone to do anything they want at any time.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Greevar (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:12pm

Re: Re: Re:
If I get into a fist fight in the street where I have the chance to walk away or get shot in the head without warning, I'm sure I'll think twice.

The kid was shot in the head with a Tazer and reports say he was the victim of the brawl. Do you understand that? There was no warning, no order to stop. The cop just pulled the weapon and fired without appraising the situation or delivering a warning. Had he shouted "Police! Break it up!" they would have stopped. They have a responsibility for the safety of the public to use the least amount of force necessary to diffuse the situation. This cop did not and put innocent people at risk needlessly. He should be fired.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
I never said the police where infallible. what i did say was they are human and with any group you get bad ones and good ones. but when an officer of the law tells you to do something like stop or get on the ground you do it. if not you should be tasered. if you were being pulled over for a traffic violation, are you just going to run bc you simply don't want to do what they tell you?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
well of course I'm not saying if a cop told you to eat dirt you should do it. but if it seems reasonable i think you should.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
um no. verbal commands are minimal force, physical restraint or placing himself between the suspects, is minimal force. a taser is not minimal force.

would your feelings be different if you and a loved one were walking down the street, attacked, and then as you defend yourself, and happen to surprise your attackers with your ability to do so, appear to be the aggressor, and are shot in the face with a taser? what if it had hit him in the eye, would you still be glad this "animal got what he deserved?" your sick, and i pray that one day you are in his situation so you can understand what its like.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf

here is your "load of crap." OSHA has some great statistics as well. im not gonna work the google for you anymore, you probably get the idea.

just because you are ignorant, doesnt mean others are. keep trying to defend your position, it is very telling of your moral standing, or lack there of.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:32pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
in my eyes, this guy's comments, are that of an animal. we should do as he suggests, lock him in a cage and be done with him. only an animal would have such blatant disregard for rights, justice, and the sanctity of human life.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Prisoner 201, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:33pm

Re: Re:
Here I have to disagree, it was just not right what he was doing to that chicken.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:34pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
yes, you in fact did say so. you also suggest if a cop told you to eat dirt, and you dont, you should be tased.

"when an officer of the law tells you to do something like stop (eat dirt) or get on the ground you do it. if not you should be tasered."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
the video does not show who the aggressor was. and if I was attacked on the street i would try to get away and not participate in the fight. This officer did his job and if you don't like it don't call them when someone attacks you bc they might get tased and hurt your little bleeding heart.

You seem to me to be one of those people who tell there children how special they are when they are mediocre at best and they grow up felling entitled and above the law. Probably like this kid feels.
And a cop's job is very dangerous...who do they call when someone has a gun, or when someone has a knife, or some crazy ass person is threatening people? Most people run away from these situations while the police run directly to it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
So you are saying no one should listen to police officers? Really? keep up with that attitude and you might get tasered! lol

you seem to have some resentments for the cops...did you just get out of prison?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Prisoner 201, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:40pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
A lot of things become reasonable when the alternative is 30.000 Volt in the face.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
well in case you did not read the story, he was with his girlfriend at the time. only a coward would run away leaving his lady with two dudes that just attacked him.

though in your world, only cops can be heroic, and only criminals can be cowardly. your a fascinating individual.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
S, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:46pm

Re: Re: Re:
Teach your kid what?

How to exact retribution for brutality?

Or maybe you're just the sort of creature which will happily let aggressors eat its young . . .
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Prisoner 201, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
You and your girlfriend are walking home from the movies. You are attacked by two people.

Do you fight to defend your girlfriend (and yourself), or do you turn your back and run? Leaving her to be raped and beaten? Of course you dont.

And when the cops come, they do not give you any chance to show that you are the good guy. They are not even interested. They taser you in the face and pepper spray your girlfriend.

Because you were fighting in the streets like animals.

Yeah thats totally reasonable. Thats totally the kind of society I want to live in.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
S, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:48pm

Re: Re:
Cops aren't even legally obligated to intervene -- ever.

In other words, if a cop doesn't feel like dealing with an armed mugger that one evening you get unlucky, you better hope you're packing heat, because otherwise the cop's doughnut break will be punctuated with your screams for mercy.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
S, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:49pm

Re: Re: Re:
So you're saying that it's okay for cops to randomly assault people. Got it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Fenderson (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
And like I said before, act like an animal and you will be treated like one.

And, as you've indirectly said, if you act like a citizen, for instance if you decide to stand up for your rights in the face of a bad cop, you'll be treated like an animal.

You scare me. I hope you aren't a cop, because your statements here are prime examples of why cops have a bad name.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
S, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:51pm

Re: Re: Re:
So you think it's okay for a cop to abuse or ignore due process and correct procedure simply because someone did something he didn't like at some point in the past.

Got it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
maybe he should grab his girlfriend and they both start running! :)

that kid had a chance to get away but he went right back over to the two guys and started fighting. he wasnt yelling for them to stop, NO he was throwing punches...like the animal that he is!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
S, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Some people -- I call them "real adult human beings" -- can actually control their emotions.

Anyone who can't, isn't qualified to be let out in public unsupervised, let alone given authority to assault, command, or detain people.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Old Man in The Sea, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:54pm

Authority vs No Authority
What strikes me is the increasing lack of Authority that the various police forces are gaining. If a man in a cosack can walk into a gang war and everything stops (the gunfire and the violence) and he brings both sides to their senses - this is Authority. When an authorised officer has to use abuse, threats and violence to stop a situation then there is NO Authority.

The number of times that I have pulled up young ones for acting dangerously to those around them and only used my voice shows that as individuals we can have authority even if not officially. These young ones have pulled their heads in even if they give you the evil eye (which they just don't realise is a complete waste of time).

The various stories written here lately show that those who have officially been given positions of authority do not seem to recognise that they are losing it by there own actions.

That is a serious problem and a pity.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
S, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:55pm

Re: Re:
There are millions of "potential" explanations, but the important facts are:

-It happened

-People are defending it(!)

-Virtually zero chance the cop is dismissed or barred from being a cop
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 2:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
You scare me! if people commit crimes they should be punished. but you seem to think differently. i just dont understand. what should we with all the criminals? give them a slap on the wrist and say go on about your way?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Fenderson (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:01pm

Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
if you are in the middle of committing a crime I don't see how being shot by a taser is abusive or excessive. Don't be a criminal and you don't get tased!

It depends on the crime. Would you agree that getting shot with a taser would be excessive for a litterer?

As to your "don't be a criminal" line, I wish that were a guarantee against getting shot. Because it's far from it.

And as for the cops...you talk all the crap you can about them but they are the first ones you call when something bad happens to you.

Actually, no, they aren't. I seen too many instances of cops behaving badly to want them around in moments when I'm feeling vulnerable. I'm not just talking out of my hat -- there have been three times when I've been the victim of crimes, one including serious assault, but have not called the cops.

Listen, I know there are some good cops. I've met them personally. But there are a higher percentage of bad people who are cops than bad people in the general population, and the cops themselves show little to no interest in making sure that they are prosecuted or, at least, kicked off the force.

The only safe thing to do when faced with a group of people who are given extraordinary power and who have a larger-than-normal percentage of bad guys is to view them all as risks until proven otherwise.

And yes, they do indeed put their lives on the line, although not all of them are doing it for altruistic reasons. Regardless, I don't minimize the risks they take. They're substantial and I'm glad they do. By the same token, taking those risks doesn't get them a pass to act badly toward the public.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DMNTD, 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I fight is a fight. It's not "animal's" going after each other and the fact I have to tell you that proves you should not be dealing with people honestly. Infraction's, death, etc happen all the time and as a peace keeper(see that's what police are supposed to be), not an authority figure. Help resolve to what the law allows until you give up your right's as a citizen but it seems to me that we have no right's UNTIL we demand them these days and not before.

It's taken a bad turn and needs to be resolved before all credibility is lost. Partaking in the law, NOT above it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
S, 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:05pm

Re: Re: Re: semantics are everything
"Authorised recreational establishment" -- now we need to have licenses and gov't permission before we can even play.

And you idiots think you're free?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Fenderson (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
It's not the job of the cops to punish anybody. That's what the courts are for. If the cops are doing any doling out of punishment, they're engaging in abuse.

I'm in no way saying that criminals shouldn't be caught or punished. I am saying that the police exceed and abuse their authority too often.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
it doesnt give them a pass to act like cowboys. but with they way the police are treated i can almost see why they would become jaded. I myself am not a cop but I do know a lot of them. Some are assholes and just people I wouldnt choose to be around all the time, but the most i know are really good guys who get such a bad rap just bc of there job. I'm not saying let them have total power but they do need some to do there job. and i do think that tasering a litterbug would be excessive! lol but wildly throwing punches in the middle of the street..well...I just wish that the kids nowadays would realize that they too can be punished, and just bc you are a kid you should still be held accountable.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
S, 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:12pm

Re: Re:
"repeated illegal acts" -- so I assume you're volunteering to be shot when you get one parking ticket too many?

"public nuisance" & "fighting in the street" -- so now if someone attacks you, or you annoy your neighbours, you're requesting that someone shoot you with a lethal projectile weapon?

Let's make this clear, in case you are incapable of comprehending this on your own: guns don't ALWAYS kill their targets, but they're "lethal weapons"; knives don't ALWAYS kill their targets, but they're "lethal weapons"; unless you want to start calling the local mugger's 9mm a "non lethal weapon", then a taser is a lethal weapon too.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
S, 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
It's okay; cops can shoot anyone -- that's why they're cops and we're not!

/s
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
criminal versus suspect. due process. or should we just do it judge dread style, and allow folks like you to be judge, jury, and executioner?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:16pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
That is true...cops are there to detain and arrest. And yes many may abuse it, but i don;t feel that tasering a person who wont comply or someone who is acting crazy and fighting in the street is excessive.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
S, 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:20pm

Re: Re: Re:
The face is a small target at the VERY TOP of the human body -- at least, most humans'; perhaps there is something different in your case.

In other words, there is absolutely no reasonable way he could have hit the kid's face if he wasn't trying to, unless he was so hopped up on confiscated drugs that he couldn't control his limbs effectively.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
S, 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:24pm

Re: some people get what they deserve
Kids fighting is far lower on the "animal" scale than whipping out your penis -- err, taser -- and assaulting people because you think people can get away with it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:25pm

Re: Re: To Protect and To Serve
You're not Canadian are you? Recording laws are MUCH stricter than in the states, or many places in the world for that matter.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:27pm

Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
maybe not...kids have access to weapons. and if we let them fight in the street it is just a matter of time before someone gets shot or stabbed.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
S, 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:28pm

Re: Authority vs No Authority
It is a serious problem; it's nice to see someone realising the implications of the force in charge of "keeping order" losing all of its societal regard and respect.

What happens when the term "cop killer" stops being colloquially ugly?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Fenderson (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
We aren't so far apart after all, even if we do differ about the severity of tasering. :)

Some are assholes and just people I wouldnt choose to be around all the time, but the most i know are really good guys who get such a bad rap just bc of there job.

Actually, I think they get a bad rap because the bad cops tarnish the entire force. This is why I've always been mystified by the lack of effective self-policing among the police. If the cops held themselves, as a group, to a higher standard then they would have a much better reputation overall.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Brent (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:35pm

Re: Re: Re: To Protect and To Serve
...and then re-elected him. *shudder*
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 27 Sep 2011 @ 3:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
the funny thing is I think that they dont police themselves bc they have the mentality of almost that of the criminals...you know the one, that snitches get stitches! if you turn on another cop you can almost kiss your career goodbye...it's sad really.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ash, 27 Sep 2011 @ 4:25pm

According to the video, his mother wasn't there.

How is quoting her in any way relevant?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jay (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 6:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
"but when an officer of the law tells you to do something like stop or get on the ground you do it. if not you should be tasered. "

Can you explain when exactly the kid got a chance to follow those instructions? It must be somewhere on the video and I'm just not seeing it...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
btrussell (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: semantics are everything
Or if you had a needle you might say, "I got a shot."

Or walk into a bar and say, "Gimme a shot!"

Yes, a shot implies a gun.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shoot

I'm thinking the kid was shot just as much as if it had been a slingshot. Or would the kid have been "slung" in that case? What about a bow? Do we say someone is arrowed?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
btrussell (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:38pm

Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
"And as for the cops...you talk all the crap you can about them but they are the first ones you call when something bad happens to you."

Only because you will be charged if you handle the situation yourself. Most laws are to make or keep present jobs.

"They DO put there lives in danger everyday to keep criminals like this boy off the street."

Too bad they didn't know that when they signed on.

"...criminals like this boy off the street."
I'll feel much safer when all kids are off the street.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DC, 27 Sep 2011 @ 7:55pm

Re: Re: Re: He was SHOT IN THE FACE
So you really are a facist?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DC, 27 Sep 2011 @ 8:06pm

Re:
Seriously? You really want the police to go around whacking people who don't behave?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:01pm

Re: Authority vs No Authority
Welcome to "generation dis", the disrespectful generation. You get plenty of it here on Techdirt, albeit from the 300 pound keyboard warriors stuffing their faces with cheetos and blurting out "fuck the world" while listening to gangsta rap. In the real world, there are real issues with the lack of respect both for the law and those who put their lives on the line enforcing it.

No doubt some will come in here and say "look at this kid shot in the face with a taser, that is why there is no respect", not realizing that it happened because of a lack of respect from the kid, not the other way around. They confuse cause and effect very often.

Generation Dis also thinks that they can ignore any law they don't like, and that there should never be any punishment for doing it. They usually crack off some nonsense about the first amendment protecting their right to be a prick and to ignore the rights of others. It usually doesn't work, and they turn into bigger pricks and start blogs to go on and on about it (Hi Mike!).

The lack of respect is overwhleming!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Prisoner 201, 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
Yeah, because high heels make you fly.

Thats why all the elite track runners use 'em.

But I see you are stuck on "Urrr throwing punches like an animal" and can not get away from that, so I am just going to ignore you from now on. Not worth my time.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
btrussell (profile), 27 Sep 2011 @ 10:46pm

Re:
You don't actually think a boy lied to his Mother do you?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Sep 2011 @ 12:57am

Re: Re: semantics are everything
Considering that the taser in question fires a pair of darts, 'shot' is quite specific and correct. The 'tasing' part comes after being 'shot.' Two very specific things taking place in a very specific order. To dismiss half of the equation is just more semantics.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Prisoner 201, 28 Sep 2011 @ 3:12am

Re: Re: Authority vs No Authority
If you hate USA so much why don't you move to a country more suitable for your allergy to human rights? Like Syria, Iran or China?

You would feel right at home there, they dont care one crap about free speech or any of that gangsta prick blog nonsense you hate so much.

Don't send a postcard, we would rather forget you as soon as possible.

Tata.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
WarOtter (profile), 28 Sep 2011 @ 5:31am

Re: Re: This may be the wrong crowd to mention it...
No I'm not commenting on the particular usage in this case. Yes shooting someone in the face with the taser present new risks, and that should be addressed in this case. But overall usage of taser and pepper spray is much safer than physical force. My point was that people are very quick to condemn their usage at all, and I thought people should realize the risks of not having them available.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 28 Sep 2011 @ 7:48am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
i didnt see a high heel in the video...looked like everyone was wearing sneakers...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 28 Sep 2011 @ 7:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
Prisoner 201 - you are so wrapped up in you male ego macho bullshit its pathetic! Be honest - if someone came at you you wouldnt try to get out of the situation bc that would hurt your ego and make you feel less of a man!

And if someone was chasing me and i had on heels i would remove them!!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 28 Sep 2011 @ 9:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
it's not in the video...i said that in response to someone's comment on what should happen if a cop told you to do something and you said no.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Marcus Carab (profile), 28 Sep 2011 @ 9:15am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
well of course I'm not saying if a cop told you to eat dirt you should do it.

Oh you don't? Well that's funny, because what you originally said was:

When a cop tells you to do something you are suppose to do it! period!!!

So maybe you should choose your words a little more carefully next time.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 28 Sep 2011 @ 9:23am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
nit-picky today are we?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 28 Sep 2011 @ 9:41am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
it's people like you that make the police angry and want to fuck somebody up! as a society we give the police authority so they can do there jobs and then we say "fuck the police"! Yes there are some bad ones out there. the ones drunk with power and throwing around there weight. These are probably the ones that were picked on in school and as soon as they get a badge they think they can do the picking. but to have some sort of civilized society we have to allow them to do there job and we have to not be rebellious little children who just want to go against them just for the sake of going against them.

Listen, for the record, I am a tree hugging, pro choice, pro gay marriage, democrat voting, atheist liberal. But when it comes to crime I believe people should be punished. There should be some fear in people that if they do a crime they will be sent to jail and or prison. I say this bc I would like to be able to walk down a city street and not be scared of someone attacking me. I would like to be able to allow my child to go outside without the fear that they will be attacked or killed. Prison should be feared and not a right of passage.Many criminal types see it as a badge of some kind of screwed up honor! police have to have some power, if they dont they can't do there job and the streets would crumble into chaos.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
crade (profile), 28 Sep 2011 @ 10:03am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
huh? being traumatized has nothing to do with it. If he has history with this guy and knows he is dangerous, it's just common sense to take him down quickly before he has the change to hurt someone. Thats what I'd do anyway :)

As far as police procedure goes, I understand that after an incident in 2010 tazers are restricted to times when the person is trying to hurt someone or the officer has reason to believe the person will try to harm someone. The procedures may not be perfect yet, but I don't think he was breaking procedure.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
crade (profile), 28 Sep 2011 @ 10:06am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
He's following the police procedure. Whats wrong with you people? If you have history with the guy and you know he's dangerous, you treat him accordingly.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
crade (profile), 28 Sep 2011 @ 10:06am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
He's following the police procedure. Whats wrong with you people? If you have history with the guy and you know he's dangerous, you treat him accordingly.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Sep 2011 @ 10:24am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
i say yes! if you are in a position that looks as if you are going to jump on the officer i say you are lucky that the taser is all you would get!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jay (profile), 28 Sep 2011 @ 10:29am

Re: Re: Re: This may be the wrong crowd to mention it...
Given the fact that there are over 300 deaths from Tasers when utilized, I would be very concerned about the risks, and the type of people operating them.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Sep 2011 @ 10:31am

Re:
you're a fucking idiot
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Sep 2011 @ 10:31am

Re:
you're a fucking idiot
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jay (profile), 28 Sep 2011 @ 10:33am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
So you believe the police should be allowed to bully people to maintain their form of "order?"

Is that your argument?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 28 Sep 2011 @ 10:33am

Re: Re:
yes I do...they will think twice about doing it again.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 28 Sep 2011 @ 10:40am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
no. look at it like this...where you see flashing lights in your rear view mirror do you pull over? or do you just say 'i didnt do anything wrong so i'm just going to keep going' ? Most people would say no, you pull over. police have to have some sort of authority. not absolute power but why do we even have cops if they can't do what they are suppose to do?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Marcus Carab (profile), 28 Sep 2011 @ 12:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
It's not nit-picky, it's a major distinction. The word "Period" (with three exclamation marks, I might add) didn't exactly convey the fact that you believed in limitations to police power - in fact it suggested the exact opposite.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 28 Sep 2011 @ 12:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
ok, ok, ok, maybe i said period!!! a little to hastily. but if a cop tells me to pull over or get on the ground i'm not going to fight them...i would do it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Sep 2011 @ 12:49pm

Re: Re:
Exactly, they should just start tazing everyone. Run a stop light? That's a tazin. Maybe then you won't break the law citizen.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Sep 2011 @ 1:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
You're right, there's only 2 options. Shoot everyone in the face with a tazer or face lawless anarchy where your grandmother is getting raped in the middle of the street.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Phil, 28 Sep 2011 @ 2:07pm

Cops are liars by nature
This is crazy the cop obviously used way too much force, he could have tried a respectful approach instead of acting like a bully, like open his mouth & ask WITH RESPECT for them to settle down instead of abusing a poor boy. Cops tend to forget that all forms of intimidation are forms of abuse & abuse is illegal. I also find it completely stupid that police officer's words mean anything, when you think about it a lie is anything that it 99.9% "true" or less & what cop is going to ask, "Can I search you? Bare in mind that as we are not the same gender you have the right to request a ____ to search you." cops are the biggest liars and sadly few people realize that a career built on lies makes a person completely incapable of distinguishing between fact & fiction. Which is why police lie in court constantly, they simply can't help not knowing how to tell what the truth even looks or sounds like.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Sep 2011 @ 2:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
and how he keeps calling them animals all over the post
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 28 Sep 2011 @ 3:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
that is not what i am saying...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Marcus Carab (profile), 28 Sep 2011 @ 4:12pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
if a cop tells me to pull over or get on the ground i'm not going to fight them...i would do it

See, I can kind of understand that... But do you realize that there are plenty of people in the world who, when a cop aks them to get on the ground, do so knowing it might mean they are about to be summarily executed via bullet-to-the-head?

Perhaps we have no reason to be afraid of that right now, in North America. But it shows why giving anyone unquestioned authority is a terrifying idea. We are lucky to not have to deal with cops playing executioner, or with 100% corrupt law enforcement that rustles bribes out of everyone it can - but a hell of a lot of people do. And do you know why we're free of it? Because we have a populace that insists on questioning the police when they step even slightly out of line, and a fundamental belief in individual freedom (though that latter is clearly more enshrined and codified in the U.S. than Canada).

When you start lying down on the ground at an officer's whim, where does it end?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
You Sir, are a Tosser, 28 Sep 2011 @ 6:43pm

Re: Who Cares
Punk kids get away with way too much these days, a good ol taze to the face is what most of them need, if not worse. Good luck officer, you're a true hero, and i mean it!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
You Sir, are a Tosser, 28 Sep 2011 @ 6:49pm

Re: Re:
Haha you watch way too many movies, as an ex-hunter, i know how hard it is to hit a limb. if you really think it's possible then you are a fool.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
You Sir, are a Tosser, 28 Sep 2011 @ 7:02pm

Easy Fix
If a Taser to the face is all it takes to stop crime, i say bring it in as a widespread punishment, I would love my town to under go this treatment, as it would become really peaceful, really quick. Think about this, the kids put lives at risk by fighting, one good blow to the head can kill a man. So who are you to paint the cop as evil for doing this? when each of the kids endangered their own and others lives. An easy fix to crime, and an easy fix to violence. I know I would never fight again if i copped one to the face. Good work officer. May all police take this on board, bring back the harsh punishments.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Marcus Carab (profile), 28 Sep 2011 @ 7:23pm

Re: Easy Fix
A taser to the face can easily kill someone too. So fuck it, let's just put bullets in their kneecaps instead, right?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
btrussell (profile), 28 Sep 2011 @ 11:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
Sounds like you live in fear.

Perhaps you would be more comfortable in a guarded cell?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
btrussell (profile), 28 Sep 2011 @ 11:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
So some one who doesn't speak the language well, is deaf, or has an IQ below 90 should be shot?

Yes, I think you would be more comfortable in a cell. But I change that original statement to include a padded cell.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
btrussell (profile), 28 Sep 2011 @ 11:58pm

Re: Re: Easy Fix
In the head.

Think of the savings when police are also judge, jury and executioner.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
toothfairy, 29 Sep 2011 @ 3:15am

Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
Your comment has my vote for best comment on this thread.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ninja (profile), 29 Sep 2011 @ 7:51am

Re: Re: Re:
I take it you are doubting the fact a taser can kill. It can. It just takes a person with some heart problem and not everybody know they have cardio issues.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
crade (profile), 29 Sep 2011 @ 12:38pm

Re: Re:
Which is exactly where being able to video them comes in helpful. Use the videos in court and let the lies be uncovered, not to burn cops at the stake because the video makes them look like witches.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
I-Blz, 29 Sep 2011 @ 5:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sorry, hoth. You're usually one of the "good guys" here on techdirt, and if you had posted under your handle, I would have probably not reacted so much. Reading the rest of the idiocy in this comment forum had pissed me off already.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
aim, 2 Oct 2011 @ 5:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
maybe i do live in fear...maybe you would too if you were raped, beaten and left to die and the justice system only say fit to give the POS 6 years...

Hope he doesnt live near you and your loved ones...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
btrussell (profile), 4 Oct 2011 @ 6:19am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: some people get what they deserve
I hope that cop doesn't get transferred here. I would not like being tasered while I was subduing a rapist, or as has happened in the past, breaking up a gang who is beating on one person, it could even kill me. Although the rapist would appreciate the time to escape.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Lars, 25 Oct 2011 @ 9:25pm

what a bunch of idiots.
this wasn't some innocent person walking along the street and some bully cop tazed him for no reason. This was a stupid little thug swinging a chair at another person. Very little injury was sustained here and luckily no TRULY innocent person was hurt. Little hint for all you wanna-be thugs and idiots feeling sorry for the punk that was tazed.... "don't violently attack other people... and you won't get tazed."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Pitabred (profile), 21 Nov 2011 @ 6:10pm

Re: Re: Re:
I take it you haven't actually been in many fights. Yes, you should generally walk away, but if you walk away from someone intent on beating you all you'll get is a punch to the back instead of the front.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Cop from elsewhere in the world., 21 Nov 2011 @ 10:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Ignorance of MikeC
His first duty is to go home alive, I don't know what world you live in, but as a COP why should I expect to be assaulted or seriously injured just so little street kid with the huge criminal history can be "treated gently"

There is alot this video cant tell us, like previous dealing with this individual, alerts that police have when dealing with him, or the level of violence he uses when being confronted all of which vastly affects how we treat people on a day to day basis.

The other thing is that this "kid" was doing was committing an offence, fighting in a public place. If you dont want to have your public streets quiet and safe, dont call the police for a pissy fight.

1. Police will protect themselves as priority 1.
2. Police will protect the public as priority 2.
3. Police will protect the offender as priority 3.

This is and always will be the way police around the world operate, you have no right to tell a police officer he should be putting the offenders safety over his own, IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. I am especially astounded at your ignorance and serious belief that I should be going home in a body bag, just because that's the way it worked out, you sound like a model citizen...

I'd like to see you do it for a living, but by the wording of your comment, I can guess at which side of that confrontation you'd like to be on.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anon, 22 Nov 2011 @ 5:28am

Re: semantics are everything
This is a bad false analogy, I'd rather be "shot" with a taser than with a gun, I think the odds of surviving without serious injury are somewhat better!

The more we use terms like "shooting", the more sensationlist the articles sound, i.e. "Officer shoots youth in face", bad huh? Overuse of these kinds of terms detracts from the seriousness of the times it's used appropriately. A tragedy of a mother forced to live in a run down apartment and bring up her child on benefits (example), is not equal to a tragedy of millions of starving people in Africa...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 10 Feb 2012 @ 10:22am

he got what he deserved, anyone of common sense, execpt Mike it seems, knows the worst place to put yourself is BETWEEN two people fighting, you get positive control of one of them, that will help you get control of the other

its easy for you to armchair police work, stick to things you may know somehting about
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 10 Feb 2012 @ 10:25am

Re: Cops are liars by nature
you are a complete idiot
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2020 @ 4:23pm

Re: To Protect and To Serve
That's what Government Workers do! The Most Worthless people in any society = Government Workers! They NEVER have to sacrifice anything, ever notice that?
[ link to this | view in thread ]