Funniest/Most Insightful Comments Of The Week At Techdirt

BearGriz72's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week

from the government-for-the-people? dept

Sat, Oct 15th 2011 12:00pm — BearGriz72

To lead off I have to say that Senator Ron Wyden is making me prouder to be an Oregonian every week. When he called out the Obama administration on trying to do an end run around Congress by allowing the USTR to agree to ACTA without Congressional ratification, it made me want to cheer. Then the New York Times jumped into the fray and filed suit against the federal government for not revealing its interpretation of the PATRIOT Act, something Senators Wyden and Udall have been agitating about for weeks.

This week has been a morass of stories about security issues including wiretapping Skype and vulnerabilities at American Express; as well as government and corporations trying to break the Internet. In response we're seeing alternative DNS systems show up, as well as more backlash against PROTECT IP (AKA: the Internet censorship bill).

From the governmental-idiocy dept: We have California governor Jerry Brown leading off with the ridiculous notion that it is OK to search your mobile phone during a traffic stop without a warrant, even though the California legislature said no. Apparently, in California, "it's better for the courts to decide" than our elected representatives. Next up is the news that the Taiwanese government is putting together a "patent bank" to Protect Taiwanese Companies Against Patent Lawsuits. I think Mike said it best with, "... when governments... have to create special institutions to protect their own companies from the patent system. Shouldn't that raise questions about the patent system itself?" Back to the US we have the winner of the "it would be funny if it wasn't true" award for the week: an Environmental Protection Agency agent manufacturing a case/evidence so that he could spending more time with his mistress. In addition, apparently releasing the office phone numbers of public affairs staff the Department of Homeland Security poses "a clearly unwarranted invasion" of employee privacy.

My honorable mention for the week is: Mike's article on a member of the EU Parliament (Christian Engstrom) of the Pirate Party with a blog post about how copyright law today simply doesn't mesh with current technology and that the laws we are passing have the effect of making nearly everyone a criminal.

Finally for the sheer humor of it, the request from Aiplex (apparently an Indian anti-piracy group) for Techdirt to take down a post on another site! Granted the post is on a copycat blog that appears to just scrape Techdirt posts, but for basic understanding of the interwebs, it is a fail of the first order.

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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 12:35pm

" PROTECT IP (AKA: the Internet censorship bill)."

More like the chicken little bill, as all the freetardian types scream that the sky is falling.
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Jay (profile), 15 Oct 2011 @ 1:09pm

Re:
... Yeah tell the world how you really feel about the valid issues of the bill with no protections to allegations, but increases liability to legal sites.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 2:03pm

How much music and movies did you rip off this week Freetardo?
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 2:05pm

Re:
*snores
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Atkray (profile), 15 Oct 2011 @ 2:49pm

Re:
pointless
grammar fail
forgot the word of the week

Your trainee is not maintaining your normal level of trolling.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 15 Oct 2011 @ 3:15pm

Re:
Enough to feed every starving child in the world.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 3:17pm

Re:
how much did you pay real creators this week freetardo?

No seriously,
how many movies did you see a the theater too this week?
How many plays did you go see this week?
How many Broadway shows did you see this week?
How many Streams did you buy this week?
How many DVD's did you buy this week?
How many Blue-rays did you buy this week?
How many CD's did you buy this week?
How many Singles did you buy this week?
How many tracks did you buy this week?
How many songs did you listen to this week?
How many t-shirts did you buy this week?
How many mugs did you buy this week?
How many collectibles did you buy this week?
How many donations did you make to artists this week?
How many concerts did you go to this week?
How many commercials did you see this week?
How many newspapers did you pay for this week?
How many magazines did you pay for this week?
How many royalties did you pay for this week?
How many books did you buy this week?
How many e-books did you buy this week?
How many apps did you buy this week?
How many programs did you buy this week?
How many licenses to use images did you buy this week?
How many websites did you pay for this week?
How many pay-walls did you pay for this week?
How many subscriptions did you pay for this week?
How many kickstarters did you fund this week?
How many flattr's did you make this week?

and remember, you have to post receipts or you are a freetard scumbag pirate from freetaria.
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BearGriz72 (profile), 15 Oct 2011 @ 3:21pm

W00t, I'm a freetard now!
@AC01
So it's just "the freetardian types" saying that S. 968: "Preventing Real Online Threats to Economic Creativity and Theft of Intellectual Property Act of 2011" (AKA: PROTECT IP) is an Internet censorship bill? Well there are dozens of law professors that agree with me and that it's unconstitutional to boot. Here LMGTFY.

@AC02
Why none. Thank You for asking. ;)
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 15 Oct 2011 @ 3:54pm

Control Issues
I'm sensing a whole lot of fear coming from these AC trolls who can't even be bothered to address anything before heading straight to the insults. Or maybe there's just a whole lot more head trauma among the dissenters, which I would presume to be self-inflicted, perhaps when head meets wall/desk upon the news that yet another person/entity has broken away from the supposed quorum that makes up the PROTECT-IP hallelujah choir.

What are you looking for exactly? Will PROTECT-IP finally put the "creative community" (read: MPAA/RIAA/BSA) into the black? Is that what you think will actually happen?

PROTECT IP, 3-6 Strikes, ACTA, etc. are all supposedly going to turn a nation of basement dwelling pirates into paying customers. That's the plan, isn't it? This legislation will pass and the money will start rolling in.

But what if it doesn't? What if the legislation does pass and your collective P&Ls remain in the same sorry shape they're in now? What then?

You already know "what then." You'll craft new legislation and wave money in the general direction of your favorite politicians and demand satisfaction. More laws. More enforcement. More penalties. More power to the Content Cartel and less to the rest of the citizens.

And what if that doesn't help? Or doesn't do enough? What if the spike in sales is more of a blip?

You'll just keep heading back to the legislation well, lobbying money in hand and backscratchers at the ready.

You won't be happy until you've got your own internet, cobbled together into some sort of AOHellish, government-run (with the input of our acronymous and acrimonious "friends")[BTW, "acronymous" is now a word. Go use it somewhere.] portal that "allows" internet users to reach only pre-approved sites and every other word on the page links to a "Buy" transaction. You won't be satisfied until you get your own search engine and browser software. (Check with the BSA. It's got to have some "creatives" within its ranks that can bang this out over a three-day weekend for you. [I don't know... "CopyRIGHT Day?")

But, take a moment and consider this:

What if, "hypothetically" (there's a reason that's in quotes...), you keep jamming more laws and restrictions and breakage down everyone's internet and the end result is NOT A GODDAMN BIT OF DIFFERENCE?

What if sharing goes dark and you can't find it? What if your former paying customers get a little sick of you eroding their civil rights, fucking with their internet service and using their legislative system (and their elected representatives) to force the general public to bend to your increasingly expensive whims? What if they decide to just stop spending money on your products because they're sick and tired of feeding a machine that's always hungry? What then?

Your sisyphean efforts will NEVER be repaid, at least not to a degree that will satisfy you. It will NEVER be enough.

Do you honestly think that the people who download because they can't afford to buy will suddenly find their wallets full of cash once the legislation passes? Are you counting these (and other unhatched chickens) in this theoretical future windfall?

How about all of those people who stopped buying your products years ago and now spend their money supporting independent artists directly? Do you think a shit ton of legislation and a government-addled internet is going to suddenly win their hearts and minds (and most importantly, wallets)?

Honestly, I don't think you even care. I think this legislation is nothing more than a vindictive attempt to rabbit punch a few infringers. It's the equivalent of leaving a flaming bag of shit on the doorstep of America (and the rest of the world, if you get your way). You're hurt because you've gone on a 15-year slide and the only moves you know are (a) bitch and (b) moan. Fortunately for you, your bitching and moaning is heard in Washington. But it won't be this way forever.

You can't stop piracy. You can't even contain it. All you can do is make the world a lousier place for every person who doesn't still rush out and buy your plastic things on day and date. You'll screw up everything for everyone, including the artists you pretend to speak for.

Shut down all the digital lockers and you're hurting every band that uses them to distribute their free music. You'll turn every cloud service into a prohibitively expensive and completely worthless digital trinket, saddled with a million "me too" licensing fees and built-in tariffs for the always-popular "just in case there's stuff on there that's not quite right."

You jackasses can't even sell an mp3 to anyone. It never belongs to the customer. It still belongs to the artist. If someone wants to offload their iTunes purchases on an open market, you're right there to remind them that all they purchased was a "license" for the track in question, an ephemeral piece of control freak crap that isn't worth the paper it was never written on.

So, go ahead: insult us. Scream. Bitch. Call us any name under the sun. But all that bile isn't putting any money in your pockets. And it certainly isn't winning you any new friends.

You've got an entire world to compete with, most of whom can do your job (connect with fans, sell music/movies/software, earn customers for life) better than you can. You don't care about your artists. You don't care about the general public. All you care about is "getting yours," no matter how much you have to destroy in the process.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 15 Oct 2011 @ 3:55pm

Re: Re:
You go first. You're the one who seems to have something to prove.
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Forgot to log in, 15 Oct 2011 @ 4:00pm

Re: Re: Re:
lol, you didn't see who I replied to did you?
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 4:00pm

Re: Re: Re:
threaded mode motherfucker, do you use it?
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 15 Oct 2011 @ 4:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
threaded mode motherfucker, do you use it?

Yes. Yes, I do. But not well enough, apparently.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 4:15pm

Re:
Pedo you should go to jail, you are not fit to be in society.

See there accusations are fun.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 4:16pm

Re:
How many old people did you accuse this week dimwit?
How many people did you extort this week dimwit?
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 4:31pm

Re: Re:
how much did you extorted from real victims this week dimwit?

No seriously,
how many children did you jail in the theaters this week?
How many people did you accuse of illegal filming inside a theater?
How many people did you accuse of taking illegal photos somewhere?
How many people got harrassed or threatned by collection agencies this week?
How many years someone most be paid for work done decades ago?
How many time did you violated the first amendment this week?
How many laws did you imagine to erode the civil liberties of the other citizens?
How many songs did you accuse of plagiarism because of 3 notes this week?
How many artists stole others this week?
How many labels, studios and publishers stole from the government using creative accounting?
How many ways did you find to make more people criminal?
How many ways did you though of to force others to do something?
How many price hikes based on the monopoly channel did you make this week?
How many jobs were outsourced to Asia this week?
How many many artists that are played where not paid their dues by collection agencies this week?
How many many artists that believe in promisses of residuals did not get paid because films are not profitable on paper this week?
How many top 100 artists didn't buy a new boat this week?
How many old people did you accuse this week?
How many innocent blogs did you shutdown this week?
How many innocent business did you seize the domains this week?
How many innocent websites you put on blacking lists for censor this week?
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 4:39pm

Copyright should last 30 seconds, then all the lawyers would have 30 seconds to track all the infringers they want and sue them for their pants and underwear. Then artists would have incredible 30 seconds to accuse others without proof and we would allow the constitution to be trampled for only 30 seconds for each work.

It would be known as "Sue in 30 seconds".
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 5:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
He does remind me of Wile E. Coyote plotting to catch Roadrunner and failing every single time is just priceless.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 5:43pm

Re: Re:
What I like most about this list is that it shows you know artists have several revenue streams while most other people only have one and that is it and still you complain it is not fair.

If McDonald's complained about how unfair was that another fastfood chain copied some product of theirs people would just laugh instead McDonald's needs to compete and improve their services and it paid off, they are in the top of the corporate world, they don't get a hundred years monopoly on anything, they can't go to courts to claim harm for being copied and still they manage to outsell everybody else, they are not a one of, Google, HSBC(its a bank) they don't get monopolies or easy ways to censor others and they still manage to sell something.

http://www.elistmania.com/top_10/top_10_companies_with_highest_market_value/

Can Exxon stop others from selling gas?
Can Wal-Mart stop others from selling something?

How is that in this day and age we allow a small group of people to hold a monopoly, why can't they just compete in the market, they sure won't be penniless, they may not be able to afford another big boat next year, or a new jet but if ticket sales numbers are any indication they will not be dinning at McDonald's either.

What right does those people have to erode the laws that safeguard Americans from abuse? Trying to enact laws that threaten the constitution without any mechanism against abuses, that doesn't seem to me like people who respect the rule of law, that seems to me like people who doesn't care about anyone but themselves and are willing to go to extremes to protect only their interests at the expense of everybody else's.

It is not enough to have a life + 95 monopoly, it is not enough to make 100's of millions of dollars personally, it is not enough to be able to demand any price they want, it is not enough to get paid once, they need to get paid repeatedly for their entire life and after their deaths for a hundred years does that sounds reasonable to anyone? Seriously?

Does it sound good that a starting musician can't get a job because others are afraid to play music in their business?

Does it sound good that prices in locations with music are higher than those that are not?

Does it sounds right that business need to keep an eye on customers so they don't sing anything that could get them in trouble?

It does not sound right to me, it also doesn't sound right that the little guy's in the street can't play anything and try to make an honest living, buskers loose the places to play, street vendors that have nowhere else are criminals now, yes they are hard to look at, they are also human beings that because of circumstances many times beyond their control are down on their luck and cannot do anything for a living and that is sad. That public space should be theirs to make something out of it and for that to occur monopolies need to go down.

Surely if McDonalds, Exxon, Wal-Mart and others can compete in a world without protections artists can too.

Lets make copyright last 1 nanosecond, that is all protection artists deserve or need from the government. Let them work for their meals like every other citizen inside society, maybe then they will be more sympathetic to what others have to go through and gain a new perspective on life.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 5:47pm

Re: Re: Re:
learn to threaded mode.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 5:48pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
learn to threaded mode. Then post
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 6:13pm

In the hearing of the PROTECT IP congress should get any geek kid out of the streets, and give him a computer and show to them all how easy it is to bypass the proposed laws, it would be a graphic demonstration of how ineffective that proposal is.

They don't understand words by they probably can believe their own eyes if someone does it in front of them.

And ask them to explain why are they risking the constitution for zero gains and how will they justify the onerous burden placed on everybody else for that.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 6:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I can picture you like the Wile E. Coyote dressed as a Chinese official.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 6:16pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Did you learn how to trample others rights yet?
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 6:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
...sigh..it appears the shills have ruined the AC moniker completely.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 6:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
whooooooooooosh
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 6:36pm

Re: Control Issues
Actually some of us are sweating every day doing the work and creating.

Unlike say, others, who stay at home doing nothing but babysitting while their wives bring home the bacon.

Those people are difficult to take seriously when they attempt to throw stones at those who are actual contributors to society.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 15 Oct 2011 @ 6:45pm

Re: Re: Control Issues
Actually some of us are sweating every day doing the work and creating.

Unlike say, others, who stay at home doing nothing but babysitting while their wives bring home the bacon.

Honestly, I could care less about your martial woes. Are you going to address anything I've written?
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 15 Oct 2011 @ 6:47pm

Re: Re: Control Issues
Actually some of us are sweating every day doing the work and creating.

Unlike say, others, who stay at home doing nothing but babysitting while their wives bring home the bacon.

Honestly, I could care less about your martial woes. Are you going to address anything I've written?
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 15 Oct 2011 @ 6:48pm

Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Bah. Firefox. I AM DISAPPOINT.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 6:51pm

Re: Re: Control Issues
Have you writen anything good while you babysit?
Remember if its not a hit you got no cigar and no protections.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 6:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Whooooooooosh!

This is fun LoL
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 6:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yep shills for the defender of authoritarism have ruined the AC moniker.
Here is another woooooooooooooosh!

LoL
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 6:55pm

Copyright the authoritarian regime that keeps on giving.
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DMNTD, 15 Oct 2011 @ 7:22pm

Re: Control Issues
Your title says it all. Just agreeing and pointing out IMHO that money is the plus, control is the sickness, could be both are sickness's. Scary.
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Greevar (profile), 15 Oct 2011 @ 9:04pm

Re: Control Issues
Thank you for saying what we all feel, but couldn't articulate. Will you be my friend? :D
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 10:25pm

Re: W00t, I'm a freetard now!
The gravamen of the "academics" letter is the First Amendment. Their arguments notwithstanding, there are others within the profession of law who happen to disagree and explain why.

Do you really intend to jump on the first bandwagon and give no consideration to counter arguments?

If so, that would not be a fair airing of the issue.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 10:34pm

Re: Re: W00t, I'm a freetard now!
I want you to explain to the angry mob why they are forced to accept a monopoly and have their civil rights violated.

Quote:

"You are not listening to us, whatever we do, however we vote, however we demonstrate. It does not give any result. Quite the opposite, as poverty and austerity plans continue. So we can't go on like this so we are getting out and showing ourselves," he said.

Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/15/world/occupy-goes-global/index.html

Do you really believe the people buy the BS from you or anyone else?
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2011 @ 10:46pm

Re: Re: W00t, I'm a freetard now!
I want you and your collegues explaining to the buskers why they can't play or earn a living in the streets in a recession because collection agencies may threathen the veneus they count on, I want you are your kind to explain to musicians that lost their jobs because collection agencies threathen the veneus they need to earn a living.

I want you to explain why IP address that don't show who did anything are being accepted as proof of wrong doing even when people didn't do anything wrong but it is cheaper to just pay up, innocent people are now not worthy of protection by the law and the state?

Why are laws that can and will be used to erode not only the first amendment but other civil rights paid in blood by our fathers allowed to be enacted without any consideration to due course or even strong deterrents against abuse that it was proven already it will happen by the DMCA and the incompetence of government agencies?

We the people want to know why censor tools are being given to proven crooks that not only defraud the state but other artists and consumers?

What kind of honest people needs a monopoly on anything for life + 95 years to earn anything? That is not earning a living that is being a parasite in the system.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 15 Oct 2011 @ 11:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Not all of the AC monikers.
Sometimes you just need to find one and redeem it.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 15 Oct 2011 @ 11:30pm

Re: W00t, I'm a freetard now!
Just means you need to try harder... I got called the right hand puppet on my first at bat. :)
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Bergman (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 12:20am

Ok, so it's illegal to search a laptop without a warrant because it's a computer, even if it has Skype on it. And they can't search a landline phone record, without at least a little oversight, even if the phone has memory of calls. But they can search all the smartphones they like in California, no warrant needed, despite the fact a smartphone is more like a laptop than a landline phone?

I wonder how hard it would be to set up a bluetooth connection between a smartphone and a laptop, and use something like Clear internet service on the laptop for making calls, while the smartphone is simply a dumb terminal to the laptop? That way you can make calls with the convenience of a smartphone, but remain secure in your papers, person and possession from unreasonable search and seizure.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 2:03am

Re:
Actually is not that hard and you could use some of the more modern softphones(software phones like Skype) that have very high encryption so not only your location will be safe but probably your communications as well if you talk to another person that uses the same one.

Aside from that, people can build their own networks on the cheap that although may lack in performance can make up in security and privacy not to mention cost.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 2:12am

Re:
http://www.voip-sol.com/android-voip-apps-the-best-softphones-for-android-phones/

http://sipdroid .org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_VoIP_software

That should get you started

For security you may want to look at SRTP and ZRTP protocols for encryption, not TLS never ever trust a third party to deliver the keys for you if you are serious about security.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 2:33am

Quote:
I'm a customer! I'm a customer! [thugs manhandle the woman and arrest her

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6svA6Qvq1U

Quote:
this is so fucked up I can hardly believe my eyes...10 fucking cops to arrest a woman in a business suit armed only with her checkbook and a desire to close her account, WTF?

oneirishpoet 5 hours ago

This is the government.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 3:59am

Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Listen up, "babysit" is the word of the week for next week. Please follow the schedule in the future, or we will lower your comission.
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Bergman (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 4:22am

Re:
And a related thought to the first one:

If you take a smartphone, and modify it (software, hardware or both) so that it cannot make phone calls, and only does data, essentially making it a palmtop PC instead of a phone...

Can cops in California search it without a warrant? They can't even jiggle a computer mouse to stop a screensaver without a warrant, so you'd think that would make a warrantless search of a palmtop computer illegal...but I bet the police would try to argue that even with the ability to make calls (not even VoIP installed) physically removed, it's still a phone (somehow).
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The eejit (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 4:24am

Re:
Is that the sequel to "Gone in 60 seconds", only with IP?
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The Devil's Coachman (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 6:54am

Re:
Smells like bacon down at Citi, doesn't it? Wait until this devolves to the status of the infamous "Chicago Police Riots" at the DNC.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 8:22am

Re: Control Issues
"What are you looking for exactly? Will PROTECT-IP finally put the "creative community" (read: MPAA/RIAA/BSA) into the black? Is that what you think will actually happen?"

I think that this pretty much sums up why you guys don't get it. It isn't about "putting them in the black", it's about having their rights respected.

Yes, it is also bottom line oriented - nobody should be forced to compete against people taking their products and giving them away for free illegally.

If the "jackasses" won't see you an mp3, buck up, and go buy music from someone who will sell you an mp3. No, not the same music, you need to respect their rights NOT to sell you an mp3. If you want an mp3, it can't be that music.

Live with it, or live without it. You can't just take it and ignore the rights of others. That just makes you a jackass yourself.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 8:34am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
I am Datapoint
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Jay (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 8:42am

Re: Re: Control Issues
"Yes, it is also bottom line oriented - nobody should be forced to compete against people taking their products and giving them away for free illegally."

If they can't compete, get out of the market.

"Live with it, or live without it. You can't just take it and ignore the rights of others."

It happens. More laws ain't going to change it. The denial phase is gone, the anger phase has done nothing. All you have to do is accept it and learn how to move on with making alternatives instead of thinking Congress will actually save the day with copyright.
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caviaremptor (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 9:04am

I have to throw up every time Wyden and Udall are given good publicity for defending liberty when it belies their voting record.

They both voted FOR warrantless wiretaps � twice this year, but got publicity for coming out against warrantless wiretaps.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2011-19

http://senate.gov/legislative /LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00075

http://www. opencongress.org/blog/Mark+Udall
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 10:04am

Re: Re: Control Issues
"Nobody should be forced to compete against people taking their products and giving them away for free illegally"

They were never selling a product to begin with, this a point you always miss since you have never worked in the field.
Everyone here who has can tell you, you sell a service, a convenience. The raw bits that sharing was always able to provide is immaterial to the end equation. Thats what sharing does in the end, shares the raw material, the raw bits. A restaurant doesn't compete with the supermarket, or people's ability to make the same meal, or even a better one at home. It doesn't have to, it sells a convenient service, the same service the Entertainment industry has sold since the beginning. thats where we make the money, not the end raw bits, the service we charge for. Food Piracy, Media Piracy, Water Piracy, Air Piracy...you can call them all you went, the fact is the only ones profiting from these 'wars' on piracy are the lawyers, which I assume you are since you have no clue about the actual business side of the industry.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 10:05am

Re: Re: Control Issues
Live with it, or live without it. You can't just take it and ignore the rights of others.

The only "rights" involved are artificial. Artificial rights that have been hugely expanded in recent years, with little to no evidence that such expansion was necessary. Artificial rights that were explicitly conceived to create balance between content creators and the public interest, but no longer do so.

So fine, they have all those rights, against which there are many good arguments. If they are going to have them, and enforce them, then they damn well have to do it right, as the already-generous law dictates - through notice-and-takedown, through individual lawsuits, and through the existing means available to them. They don't need yet another law, one that gives them a magic wand to wave and wipe out huge amounts of speech with no concern for collateral damage.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 10:07am

Re: Re: Control Issues
Also, perhaps more importantly:

You can't just take it and ignore the rights of others.

That goes for freedom of speech too, thank you very much.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 11:25am

Re: Re: Control Issues
Respecting copyright is not an option.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-10-zone-database-home-lawsuit.html

It impacts everyone everywhere in a very negative way.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 11:33am

Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Marcus, I have to say that your ranting today makes less sense than usual.

Almost all rights are artificial in nature. Almost every legal construct of a democratic country is created by balancing one side against the other, to allow the most while restricting the undesired or unwanted effects.

The laws of ownership, property rights, even the laws against jay walking are created with the balance in mind. The laws are designed to further the public good (even if they public doesn't like it), while minimizing the negative effects on society.

In a democratic society, you always end up giving up a little of what you are physically able to do (like killing someone) for the balance (knowledge that generally people won't kill you either). We all drive on the same side of the road even though we are physically able to drive on either side. We jail people who drink and drive, even though those are two things that they are legally allowed to do separately.

"Artificial rights that were explicitly conceived to create balance between content creators and the public interest, but no longer do so."

You are correct here, but not the way you see it. Part of the :rights" created here is the right for the public to NOT consume a product if they don't like the terms. There is no legal force that says "you must buy this DVD or go to jail" or "you must go to Itunes and get this song or get fined". You are free to make your choices to consume or not consume the product under the terms that it is offered.

If you don't like the terms, don't consume it.

What you (and others like you) want to do is gain the right to dictate to content producers (you know, the guys and girls who actually make this stuff) how they will give it to you, how you can use it once you have it, and how you can reuse it without concern about them. Effectively, you want them to have few if any rights, and you want all the benefits.

In a democratic society, you have all the right to ask for it - and the other side has all the right to tell you to pound sand. Nobody can tell you what to wear or tell you what to eat for dinner, so why should you be able to tell someone how their product should be sold or used?

Your comments come across as greedy and self-centered. If you don't like the terms of the content, STOP USING IT! Go make your own (without using their content to do it).

The blame for collateral damage should go to those who break the law, and try to hide amongst law abiding people while doing it. It's the internet version of human shields, and just like in war, it makes you look like a prick.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 11:38am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
you can call it a product as many times as you want, its not.

Get a job working with artists, and you'll understand that. Until then, aside from your vested interest in the legal side, the rest of your comment is meaningless to non-lawyers .
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 12:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Wow, you really don't have a clue, do you?

Artist make art. In order for them to make enough money to be able to keep being artists, they have to (gasp!) sell their art. At the moment it sells, it becomes a product, especially if it is something that is replicated / duplicated from an original.

All I can say is that if your entire comment comes down to "you use the word product too much", then I think I got it right and you don't have much of an argument.

Marcus? What about you? Can you come up with a reason why you should be able to tell and artist how their should live, work, and sell their art?
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Jay (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 12:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
"If you don't like the terms, don't consume it."

No shit, sherlock. That's why alternatives pop up.

"What you (and others like you) want to do is gain the right to dictate to content producers (you know, the guys and girls who actually make this stuff) how they will give it to you, how you can use it once you have it, and how you can reuse it without concern about them. Effectively, you want them to have few if any rights, and you want all the benefits."

A business does not have the right to make money. They have the ability to try and fail based on their merits. If their merits try to limit consumers, then the consequences fall on them also. Do more of what a customer wants, make more money. Do less, money goes to other service providers. It's not rocket science and yet, you continue to believe businesses have a license to print money from things that harm the public for short sighted gain?

" Nobody can tell you what to wear or tell you what to eat for dinner, so why should you be able to tell someone how their product should be sold or used?"

If you think the song, movie, game, is the only end product, then you're doing it wrong and you don't see the larger picture. Maybe you can tell me why people still make remixes, alternatives, and homages that aren't based on the product, but shout out to them as meanings and inspiration.

"Go make your own (without using their content to do it)."

Since I used the English language first, you have to stop using it. No really, stop reading this sentence. Come up with your own language so you can't communicate about a new form of entertainment, are left out of conversations, and leave your idea of businesses having personal rights elsewhere. They provide services. If they can't do that very simple thing, they don't get my money and it goes to competitors. Or it gets saved. It's that simple.

"The blame for collateral damage should go to those who break the law, and try to hide amongst law abiding people while doing it."

And that's the most asinine thing I've heard from someone advocating copyright. Collateral damage? When people find alternatives because the legal version is riddled with restrictions? When there's no difference between one version or the next? When the company can't figure out how to make it easier for their consumers to enjoy entertainment instead of bitching at Congress for more laws that will be fruitless?

You deserve pity for keeping such a sad sheltered life.
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Jay (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 12:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
"At the moment it sells, it becomes a product, especially if it is something that is replicated / duplicated from an original."

No, the art is advertisement. The product is the artist themselves. Ever heard of commission? The art piece could sell elsewhere without the artist being involved, and he still wouldn't be entitled to that money. But I guess that evades you.

"Can you come up with a reason why you should be able to tell and artist how their should live, work, and sell their art?"

Can you come up with a better reason that people should rely on copyright instead of finding new revenue streams that are far more efficient?
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Eugene (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 12:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Derpidy derp - pink AC was clearly making a bad joke at oblivious shill green AC. I know it was hard to parse, but come on. Pay attention to who is what. This goes for blue and grey AC above too. You guys are embarrassing us.
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Eugene (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 12:27pm

Re: Re: Control Issues
Wow, good job not only offending homemakers, but women as well.
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JMT (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 12:58pm

Re: Control Issues
"So, go ahead: insult us. Scream. Bitch. Call us any name under the sun. But all that bile isn't putting any money in your pockets. And it certainly isn't winning you any new friends."

This can't be emphasised enough. Some of the regular commenters here clearly have a vested interest in me paying them money for whatever content they're flogging, and it's amazing that they don't seem to realise how much their insult-laden rants make me NOT want to do that.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 1:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Go make your own (without using their content to do it).

You seriously have no idea how art and culture works. It's sad, really. So incredibly sad.
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JMT (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 1:38pm

Re: Re: Control Issues
"Live with it, or live without it."

Are you sure that's the simplistic decision you want us to make? Because you seem to forget that we're talking about entertainment here, one of the first things people stop spending money on when prioritising their expenses. You overvalue the content if you think people can't "live without it".
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Vmax, 16 Oct 2011 @ 3:20pm

Re:
They're not superheroes, just marginally better than most of the others. It doesn't matter why they're doing it; if they keep it up, maybe others will try to copy.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 3:55pm

Re:
Somebody doesn't understand the real intention behind PIPA...
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Atkray (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 4:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Thanks for the clarification I was confused, I thought it might be "learn to threaded mode".
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 4:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
"If they can't compete, get out of the market."

Jay, this is possibly the stupidest comment in the thread, and that is saying a lot. How are the suppose to compete with their own product, when someone is giving it away for free, because they have no costs involved?

I mean, come on.

What you guys don't seem to get is that is they "get out of the market" it won't be available on your pirate sites either. What the heck will you listen to, Corey Smith?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 4:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
""If you don't like the terms, don't consume it."

No shit, sherlock. That's why alternatives pop up.
"

Then why the fuck is the Hollywood stuff the most popular and most in demand stuff on the pirate sites? Nobody is clambering for the "alternatives", they are ignoring the alternatives and slathering at the mouth for the latest from the real movie and music industries. Why is that?

"Since I used the English language first, you have to stop using it. "

FUCK ME YOU ARE AN IDIOT! I didn't say stop using music, notes, or instruments, I said stop using the music.

God damn, you are truly dense.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 4:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
"Then why the fuck is the Hollywood stuff the most popular and most in demand stuff on the pirate sites?"

For the same reason Coca-Cola is still the biggest seller in the world. And the same reason why Barak Obama is still trending on twitter
We call it being popular and using marketing, you might want to read up on it.

"Nobody is clambering for the "alternatives", they are ignoring the alternatives and slathering at the mouth for the latest from the real movie and music industries. Why is that?"

You seem to have this weird fantasy that people are horny and jerking off to Hollywood movies and music.
Tell me,how many Hollywood produced movies do you watch per day? Because your obsession with them isn't healthy.

on btw, real movie and music industry? You mean there's a fake one?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 5:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
"Jay, this is possibly the stupidest comment in the thread, and that is saying a lot. How are the suppose to compete with their own product, when someone is giving it away for free, because they have no costs involved?"

The way we always have, WE DON'T! There was never a competition with the non-existent market of "piracy". Only piracy competes with piracy. This is first grade economics here, you learn on the first day of the job for Pete's sake.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 6:34pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Quote:
Then why the fuck is the Hollywood stuff the most popular and most in demand stuff on the pirate sites? Nobody is clambering for the "alternatives", they are ignoring the alternatives and slathering at the mouth for the latest from the real movie and music industries. Why is that?

Popular and in demand?
You are right about movies, but music or TV shows, I don't think you have had a stroll around the world recently you would be shocked to learn that people don't listen or watch US music or TV and it is reflected on the number of searches for lyrics and translations.

Quote:
FUCK ME YOU ARE AN IDIOT! I didn't say stop using music, notes, or instruments, I said stop using the music.

LoL that one is funny, if you can't use the music why have notes or instruments then?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 6:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Quote:
Jay, this is possibly the stupidest comment in the thread, and that is saying a lot. How are the suppose to compete with their own product, when someone is giving it away for free, because they have no costs involved?

I mean, come on.

If you are selling lemonade and some girl puts a free lemonade stand on the sidewalk the correct response is to apprehend the girl right?

If some restaurant makes a steake everybody who dares to do one at home in a barbecue is a criminal right?

C'mon, you are saying that artists only have that one stream of revenue, they don't do shows, they don't have other merc? they don't have offers to show up somewhere? they don't get contracts to advertise something?

Why can you be honest just once?

Quote:
What you guys don't seem to get is that is they "get out of the market" it won't be available on your pirate sites either. What the heck will you listen to, Corey Smith?

What you don't understand is that people don't care.
Here go to Jamendo and listen to some good music for free that you can share with anyone.
Youtube is pack full with good music too for free, and the horror are not the labels the ones giving away music for free on the internet?
I find it amusing that they put the music out for free and complain that others are doing it too, is that some form of mental illness? or just severe cognitive dissonance?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 6:45pm

Re: Re:
It is a censor tool, that is being adverstised as a crime stopping tool, but if doesn't stop the supposed crime than it can only mean it is going to be used to censor others either by pecuniary, personal, political or whatever reason.

Is that not the intent of that law?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 6:48pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
"What you don't understand is that people don't care.
Here go to Jamendo and listen to some good music for free that you can share with anyone.
Youtube is pack full with good music too for free, and the horror are not the labels the ones giving away music for free on the internet?
I find it amusing that they put the music out for free and complain that others are doing it too, is that some form of mental illness? or just severe cognitive dissonance?"

Like I've said before, it shows that he hasn't worked a day in his life, at least not in the field he so quick about 'defending'. Truth is, it doesn't need defending, not from him anyway. The Music Business was always like that. Making money from the service offered to musicians and fans. Some things are changing, and so is the business (with or without the big labels).But 'Piracy' isn't the reason why, nor was, or is a problem. Unless your from the legal department. But they have their own reasons for it.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 7:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Most sought after? Where?

K-Pop chars don't show that.
http://loveforkorea.wordpress.com/category/k-pop-charts/

Funny is the visitor count Americans are the top visitors for that one. There not one American artist in there, and I wonder how many of those K-Pop are part of any of the big labels.

In China apparently what is hot is Chinese and Japanese pop stars nobody cares about American pop stars there is not in the news.

The same happens in India and it is happening incredibly in Africa, Russians it appears are starting to have their own open culture too, maybe that is why sales are going down, everybody is dumping the big label asses.
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Greevar (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 9:01pm

Re: Re: Control Issues
So you think this will get people to "respect" your rights? They don't respect them now, what makes you think that adding more abusive legislation will make it any better? For people who have figured out how copying works, your precious IP laws are an Andy Kaufman level joke.
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Greevar (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 9:24pm

Re: Re: Control Issues
Start paying for content you freetard pirate! Give me money for my art or I'll continue to insult you! I worked hard on it, so I'm entitled to payment for it, for some reason.

Is that it?

Those that rely on art to make a living and complain about file sharing tend to have a false sense of entitlement, the same kind of entitlement they accuse the "pirates" of having.

They think along these lines, "If I work hard on creating art to sell, anyone who enjoys it is duty-bound (and law-bound) to reward me for my efforts!" It doesn't work that way though. Nobody has any moral or legal obligation to pay you (copyright protects against unauthorized copying, not failure of payment. That's your job to secure.) for appreciating the art you create.

"Working hard" does not grant anyone entitlement to be paid for their work. There is no social, implicit, nor explicit contract that those viewing the art are obligated to compensate you. If people are enjoying your art, but haven't compensated you your preferred wage, it's not their fault. You did the work before securing your payment and you're the sucker because art is a service, not a product. If people enjoy the results of a service you did without you negotiating for payment, it's your fault, not theirs.
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Jay (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 9:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
"Jay, this is possibly the stupidest comment in the thread, and that is saying a lot."

Ad hom.

"How are the suppose to compete with their own product, when someone is giving it away for free, because they have no costs involved?"

It's called adding value to the product. The fact remains that making a song free will only entice so far. Making a game free will only work. But maintaining a connection with those that want to support you, listening to their ideas, implementing them helps to build a new business model than what copyright does. That's the part you seem paid not to get, I guess, but the reality has been working in every entertainment industry. It just doesn't work when you try to control everyone's spending habits.

"What you guys don't seem to get is that is they "get out of the market" it won't be available on your pirate sites either. "

Tell that to the Beatles. Tell that to JK Rowling before she switched her stance. Or better yet, tell that to the mountains of evidence that piracy is caused by unmet demand instead of an arbitrary limitation on supply. Keyword: arbitrary. That limit is removed on digital. Or will you play the "obfuscation" card again?
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Jay (profile), 16 Oct 2011 @ 10:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
"Then why the fuck is the Hollywood stuff the most popular and most in demand stuff on the pirate sites? "

Ladies and gentlemen, this is called the 1:1 correlation. You see it's subtle. But when you look at this sentence, you carefully note that it's ignoring all of the legal alternatives in order to propogate Hollywood as the only important stuff on the Bittorrents. For there are a few facts that the AC doesn't even consider while he tries to say "only Hollywood matters"

1) Most downloaded material happens outside of the US - Since the US has the most legal alternatives of any other country, it's natural that Bittorrent usage goes up in a place like Russia where copyright is used to beat down legal alternatives.

2) The legal sharing of Jamendo music, Grooveshark music, old games that aren't even on the market, movies that have been out of print for years, or even a foreign market that is stymied on DVD (but not on the internet) is ignored... All for Hollywood

3) There's no mention of other alternatives and how they compete for time. There's only 24 hours in a day, and you can only spend so many watching movies. I wonder what would happen if you played video games instead of watching movies? Oh wait... That's costing Hollywood a fortune!

Hmmm... I wonder who the AC works for?

" I didn't say stop using music, notes, or instruments, I said stop using the music."

Actually, here's your words:

Your comments come across as greedy and self-centered. If you don't like the terms of the content, STOP USING IT! Go make your own (without using their content to do it).

So in order to make content, people get inspiration from other things. Since you're using the English language, I don't want you to take anything from me. Not my words, not the context behind them, nothing. Just stop using them.

And yet, you can't see the idiocy of what you're trying to say to Marcus of coming up with something "original" from a vacuum, instead opting for an ad hom attack that makes your argument even weaker. But hey, I don't have to tell you you're an idiot. You're doing a bang-up job shredding your own argument by being dense.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 10:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
"If you are selling lemonade and some girl puts a free lemonade stand on the sidewalk the correct response is to apprehend the girl right?"

Not a relevant example, unless the little girl is stealing your lemonade and giving it away for free. The free stand won't exist long giving away something that costs them money. It's the trick of piracy, the raw materials don't cost them anything, so whatever they make is profit.

It's hard to compete with your own product, when the competition is free.

You need to learn the difference before you call someone less than honest. Clearly you don't get it.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 10:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
"Ad hom."

You earned it, it was truly a stupid comment.

"The fact remains that making a song free will only entice so far."

When you are only in the business of selling music, once it is given away for free, you have nothing left to add. You cannot value add to your sole business, at least not in a meaningful way.

It should also be clear, the only reason they are in this position is because of piracy.

Piracy isn't caused by "unmet demand", it's cause by "unreasonable expectations". It's cause by people who children, throwing their toys out of the pram if they can't get the new movie of the week online, in their preferred format, now, and for free.

The "unmet demand" types are clearly unwilling to pay what it would cost. They are the ones who bitch about expense anime / manga books, not realizing that the total english market for them fits on the head of a pin.

You need to accept the basic concept: If someone doesn't want to sell you something right now, it isn't permission for you to go and take it anyway.

Are you going to try to get around that again?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 10:40pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Stealing like copying it?

Of course it is not relevant you don't want it to be, because if all the little girl was doing was copying a recipe and making her lemonade with her own resources like people copy music with their own resources it would sound ludicrous.

You see nobody inside society has the reach and depth of rights that copyrights give some people, people really need to work to get paid they can't just claim something is owned to them because of past services rendered.

A musician that don't go play to their public should not be paid, he is not doing his job, a musician who doesn't have to set foot on a stage should not be paid, in what world people get paid for doing nothing?

In your world only.

How can a law permit that someone that doesn't show up for work be entitled to money and give him or her the sense that others are criminals for copying him or her?

In your world only.

But reality obviously doesn't respect your imaginary concepts of right and wrong, even people don't respect it, so please cease and desist your innuendo.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 10:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
If it is so hard to compete with your own product why food chains raise?

They all serve the same things don't they?
How they differentiate themselves if they can't stop others from copying their dishes?

How can there be so many tool manufacturers if everybody can make tools? can they not compete?

People are not blind they can see there is no difference in there.

You are not Steve Jobs his cloak of reality distortion has gone with him to his grave.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 10:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Piracy as you called is something fundamental to humanity, it is about the act of sharing something with others, it is sharing moments, it is about the connections that we make.

Music, books, theatre and movies are nothing without that connection.

There is a demand for it, there is no demand for monopolies though, someone should not get paid without having to work that is just immoral, it is even more wrong when someone that doesn't actually do the work for others also tries to stop others from trying to offer that work like in the case of musicians being fired from establishments because owners can't afford to pay collections agencies so it is better to them to just not have those musicians there, the music is gone, the musician who was servicing the customers is gone and so is the money all for what? Some other musician that wouldn't play in that establishment, didn't go in for work but feels entitled to receive money for work he didn't do?

We all know what to call people like that and it is not pretty.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 11:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Now care to explain if music is what you sell, why musicians at the top 100 are making more money today than they did in any other decade?

You can't explain payola's can you? Why labels pay radio's to play their music, shouldn't be the radio's paying them in your absurd world?

You can't explain why musicians complained that Youtube cut them off because they if was to expensive to have them there?

You can't explain why are the labels giving music for free?

But when others share that is a crime?

Poor artists they don't have a monopoly on the public space, they can't control it, but they can force every company out there to comply with them, they control the commercial space and can force others to comply to every whim they have but that is not enough, it is not enough to make hundreds of millions of dollars touring or in ticket for seats, it is not enough to sign multimillion dollar contracts for promotion and production of secondary merchandise, did you know that big acts don't sell just music, they sell apparel, books, videos, cosmetics and all sorts of products?

Now, will those artists go down to play for joe 6 packs in the local pub?

Of course not but that idiot empowered by a powerful company wants to force others to pay up for work they will never do themselves, that is just disgusting.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 11:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Since copying is stealing for you all the girl needs to to is make lemonade or copying the lemonade from others is not a crime?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 11:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
What? copying lemonade is not a crime anymore? it is even for financial gain in the case of the lemonade stand.

You are the one who keeps saying that copying is taking something that is not yours and it is stealing plain and simple.

So copying is stealing or is not which is it?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2011 @ 11:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Remember the law also says that it doesn't even need to be a perfect copy it just need to have substantial similarities to constitute infringement and if it is done for personal gain it becomes criminal.

The little girl those is a dirty criminal that needs to be put in jail for copying the lemonade of others.

That is how you sound to others.
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Jay (profile), 17 Oct 2011 @ 12:31am

*Yawn*
"When you are only in the business of selling music, once it is given away for free, you have nothing left to add. You cannot value add to your sole business, at least not in a meaningful way."

... The song isn't the only business of an artist... You have no idea how people create nor market themselves, do you?

"It should also be clear, the only reason they are in this position is because of piracy."

Nope, try again. Piracy is a symptom of unmet demand and a failing business model of trying to get people to spend on overpriced CDs/mp3s instead of offering better products in general.

" It's cause by people who children, throwing their toys out of the pram if they can't get the new movie of the week online, in their preferred format, now, and for free."

Try to rewrite that sentence again, but this time remember that Spotify uses free and very few musicians have to get legal on their customers.

"You need to accept the basic concept: If someone doesn't want to sell you something right now, it isn't permission for you to go and take it anyway."

Wow, you're still on thinking that Hollywood controls what I spend my money and time on. So Hollywood doesn't want me to watch their movies for $20? Okay, I have a game I can play for free and spend my time and money elsewhere. Remember this sentence?

No shit, sherlock. That's why alternatives pop up.

I have alternatives to Hollywood. It's called Youtube, Jamendo, Dmusic, Twitch.tv, Valve.com, or *gasp* the great outdoors. They don't have something I want, I can do without. Without piracy. But of course, since Hollywood is paying you to promote them at the behest of various legal forms of content, be it on Vodo.com, Kickstarter, or whatever, it would behoove you to just constantly think since they're growing more and more.

Oh, and if you haven't noticed, Gaming industry revenue
movie industry revenue
Music industry revenue

Obviously, money is being made in all three industries despite piracy. And from the looks of it, piracy hasn't killed any of them. Or would you like to be schooled on how you can use the economics of free to promote yourself, find new marketing strategies, and use better ideas than this tired belief that the large industries control how their content is consumed?
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Jay (profile), 17 Oct 2011 @ 12:34am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
I think you replied to the wrong AC...
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Jay (profile), 17 Oct 2011 @ 12:52am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
"It's hard to compete with your own product, when the competition is free."

Nope

"Not a relevant example, unless the little girl is stealing your lemonade and giving it away for free. The free stand won't exist long giving away something that costs them money. It's the trick of piracy, the raw materials don't cost them anything, so whatever they make is profit."

No, he has a point that you're trying to evade. If on one side of the street, you have a girl selling lemondade for $5, and on the other, she's giving away her lemonade, then there's no added value to the product. Since they're competing goods, the $5 girl has to do something to make her product worth more in the customer's eye or drop the price accordingly. It doesn't matter if she does a dance for the money, gives them a note to wash a car, or shows how she'll give part of the proceeds to charity, the fact is, she'd have to compete against the new price point by changing how she prices her wares or adding something new.

It's becoming more and more obvious, you've never taking a marketing class. You don't understand simple economics. Are you sure you want to keep plugging your own argument with holes, by continued used of tired rhetoric?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Oct 2011 @ 2:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
Only if you explain why are you not paying Ford for the car you use, to go to work and enables you to work, do you pay Boeing royalties for flying?

Of course not after it was sold they don't have a right to come calling and telling others what to do, only in your fantasy world you believe that is the normal thing people should do.

Copying lemonade being a crime is crazy talk.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 17 Oct 2011 @ 4:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Control Issues
When you are only in the business of selling music, once it is given away for free, you have nothing left to add.

Or you realize that you're not just in the business of selling music, and never have been.

This is the point that has been explained to you for years now.

How can you still not get it?
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AJBarnes, 17 Oct 2011 @ 9:44am

Re: Re: Re:
We don't have much competition anymore thanks to the greedy bastards in Washington being on the take. Business A goes into business, gets tired of having to compete and then buys a politician to require licensing, or business licenses, or payoffs to city hall to keep others out, or to have the government be their enforcers. It is impossible now-a-days for small businesses to start. Look at all the regulations and barriers to entry they have to go through to open their doors.

How many times do you see these anticompete laws going after a kid's lemonade stand? How many times do you see competition stiffled because patent trolls have the resources to destroy innovators and the courts willingly go along? How many times do you see the Barney Franks and Chris Dodd's of the world stuffing their pockets and then turning the other way when they should be regulating and enforcing?

How many BluRay discs did I buy? Not a gd one! There's another big up-the-butt for the consumers when congress allowed BluRay to become a monopoly by tying up all the content sellers and forcing HD out of business. Happens all the time.

If we had true competition and a government who effectively regulated and made for a fair playing field, rather than stuffing money in their pockets for protecting their contributor's interests, we'd be a lot better off.
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