US Mainstream Media Refuses Op-Ed About TSA Eroding Civil Liberties... But Pravda Publishes It

from the sad-statement dept

Thu, Dec 29th 2011 8:39am — Mike Masnick

A few months ago, we wrote about how a TSA agent who was involved in an intrusive "pat down" of Amy Alkon threatened her with a defamation claim for daring to say and write that she felt she was raped by the TSA agent. Recently Alkon sought to publish an op-ed about her experience and the importance of standing up for one's civil rights in America. As she notes, pretty much all of the American mainstream media refused to publish the piece:

Media outlets that refused to publish this piece include the LA Times, The New York Times, Reuters, CNN, The Huffington Post, The Wall Street Journal, Yahoo.com, MSNBC.com, and The Washington Post.

You know who did publish it? Pravda. Yes, the rather infamous Russian publication.

The TSA's main accomplishment seems to be obedience training for the American public -- priming us to be docile (and even polite) when ordered to give up our civil liberties. Not only does the TSA violate our Fourth Amendment rights, they've posted signs that effectively eradicate our First Amendment right to speak out about it. One such sign, in Denver International Airport, offers the vague warning that "verbal abuse" of agents will "not be tolerated." Travelers are left to wonder whether it's "verbal abuse" to inform the TSA agent with his latex-gloved hands on their testicles that this isn't making us safer, or are they only in trouble if they pepper their statement with obscenities? Not surprisingly, few seem willing to speak out and risk arrest.

Whether or not you agree with Alkon's point, it seems bizarre that the big American media wouldn't even let her speak her mind on the subject...

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Filed Under: amy alkon, civil liberties, media, searches, tsa

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Someantimalwareguy (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 7:50am

Follow the agendas...
Whether or not you agree with Alkon's point, it seems bizarre that the big American media wouldn't even let her speak her mind on the subject...
It's not hard at all really; you just have to take note of the agendas of who is bank-rolling the target media outlet and let logic take you to the inevitable conclusion: If the story flies in the face of the prevailing power structure that in turn empowers the media outlet, don't expect them to say anything about a given topic. And if the power structure does like the message, expect to see it over reported ad nauseam...

This is the tragedy we face with the loss of truly independent news agencies. They all have masters and when the master says "no way", the story gets killed faster than a vote down on Digg...
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:04am

This is one of the reasons why online blog sites like RedState, DailyKos, TechDirt, etc, have been gaining so much ground in recent years.

It's quite easy to see blatant bias in the media these days, so people are heading to foreign news places, and online blogs to get news from sources they trust. There's a lot of good screen captures of some of the 24/7 news channels that show how blatantly biased they are at times.

Despite how many have claimed for decades that the media has a liberal bias, both sides have been very unsatisfied with the media & their bias since the 1990's.

In my opinion part of the problem is that most of the mainstream media overreacts to charges of political bias, and tries to bend over backwards to be 'equal' even when reality doesn't make both sides look equally good/bad. Also when it comes to some issues, especially anything 'security' related the media often bends down and follows the governments lead, rather than question them, for fear of being labeled 'unpatriotic' or 'not serious' about terrorism & protecting Americans.
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William, 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:05am

Bit off base
No, it isn't shocking at all. If they don't feel you have a point, or even just disagree, they don't have to let you post it.

If we forced them to do so, we'd get to hear about big foot and aliens every other minute.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:09am

Being patriotic is all about submitting to security theater culture today. It's very against the grain in the mainstream to even suggest that the post 9/11 security obsession isn't working or is counter productive.
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bshock, 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:10am

I see what you're doing there...
I guess I understand that you're writing with a disingenuous attitude out of sarcasm and perhaps some forlorn hope of avoiding insult to the U.S. mainstream media outlets you mentioned (and with whom you may wish to deal in the future).

But since I don't have a web site to run, I can just add my voice to those who point out it's not at all "bizarre that the big American media wouldn't even let her speak her mind on the subject."

Quite the contrary, it seems merely consistent that big American media would do the bidding of their owners, the wealthy companies and individuals who have the highest stakes in ratcheting down rights for the troublesome, disorderly masses.

To the rich, We The People are almost literally cattle. We exist to be herded, milked, and when necessary or convenient, slaughtered.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:10am

Re: Bit off base
What happens in airports every day is the same as mythical creatures. FYI
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Jim D (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:13am

I don't like the way thenTSA operates for security theatre instead of actual security, and then naively, obliviously ignores their own hypocrisy and inconsistencies.

However, let's no one be surprised that the premier outlet of Russian anti-American propaganda-- Pravda-- published an op-Ed by an American criticizing a major American agency and policy.
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anonymous, 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:17am

gutless ass hats is what i call them! just because it doesn't suit, it doesn't get published? WTF? it may not be welcome news but it is news! news where, yet again, peoples rights have been/are being ignored in pursuit of some mythical nation where the government does nothing wrong and everyone does as they're told! remind me again of what that's called?
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el_segfaulto (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:17am

Re: Bit off base
The TSA is an affront to the dignity and privacy afforded to all people, not just United Statsians. The Constitution of the United States doesn't grant these rights, it acknowledges them. It sickens me to see regular people applauding the actions of this modern-day Gestapo. And before somebody quotes Godwin to me, bear in mind that they want to expand to trains, buses, and interstate highways. Resist now while it is a feasible option!
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:19am

Re: I see what you're doing there...
May I suggest you move to North Korea, and discover what it is really like to be "cattle"?

The richest people in the world whining about the quality of their caviar. Aren't you cute?
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Richard (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:21am

Re:
However, let's no one be surprised that the premier outlet of Russian anti-American propaganda-- Pravda-- published an op-Ed by an American criticizing a major American agency and policy.

Want the truth about America?

Read the Russian media.

Want the truth about Russia?

Read American media.

Simple really.
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Jeff Edwards, 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:24am

TSA
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
- Thomas Jefferson
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Machin Shin, 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:24am

Re:
What I think we should wake up and be surprised about is how lately Russia has been able to take the moral high ground and point a finger at how bad the USA is. I am sickened looking at this nation now. We have a leader who went from speaking of a need for another "sputnik" moment to killing the space shuttle and asking Russia for rides to space. How does anyone take that man seriously?
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:25am

Re: Re: I see what you're doing there...
Yes, because there are greater injustices in the world, I should just shut up and allow my rights to be eroded away.

Moron.
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Jeffbe232 (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:27am

TSA
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
- Thomas Jefferson
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Jim D (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:30am

Re: Re:
Agreed-- if you add a few more geo/political perspective. Read half and synthesize a half doze different and conflicting perspectives and you'll be as close to the truth as is possible.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:36am

Re: Re: Re: I see what you're doing there...
Yay for name calling... because, you know... your point would have had so much less influence without it.

This is why TD is so great. Can't have a debate without some people just flaming without any reason.
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Atkray (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:36am

Re: Re:
I've been hearing more and more that the English version of Al Jazeera provides a good look at the US.

I've been reluctant to check it out for the same reason I stay away from reddit, I don't need any more distractions.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:37am

Re:
Yes because United-Statisians news contain no propaganda at all... /sarcasm
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:39am

Sexual assault by a government official acting under color of law
Amy Alkon complained that she was �raped�. The consensus here at Techdirt seemed to be that she wasn't raped: It was merely sexual assault.

Here's a recent decision by an appellate court about sexual assault under color of law. Johnson v. Phillips (8th Cir. December 22, 2011):

�� D.

Johnson�s final constitutional claim is that Phillips violated her substantive due process right to bodily integrity. As of 2006, it was clearly established in this circuit that the commission of a sexual assault by a government official acting under color of law constitutes a violation of due process that shocks the conscience. Rogers v. City of Little Rock, Ark. (8th Cir. 1998); Haberthur v. City of Raymore, Mo. (8th Cir. 1997). Johnson alleges that Phillips pushed her up against the hood of her car, pulled her shorts and underwear to the side, took pictures of her genitals with his cellular phone, and penetrated her vagina with his finger. These allegations constitute �an egregious, nonconsensual entry into the body which was an exercise of power without any legitimate governmental objective.� Rogers, 152 F.3d at 797. Any reasonable officer would have known that these actions violated clearly established law.

Phillips contends that he did not commit a constitutional violation because he was not acting under color of law at the time of the alleged sexual assault. In his view, once he removed Johnson�s handcuffs, everything that followed�the conversation about homeless shelters, the drive to a second location, and the assault itself�occurred while he was acting in his capacity as a civilian, not as a city official.

(Emphasis added; pincites omitted) � (H/T Fourth Amendment Blog)

�

�Commission of a sexual assault by a government official acting under color of law constitutes a violation of due process that shocks the conscience.�
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 9:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: I see what you're doing there...
I see no problem calling someone who says something moronic a moron. In any event, there was no debate in what was said, the statement was illogical and... Well, moronic.

I truly hope I didn't cause someone to cry.
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The eejit (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 10:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: I see what you're doing there...
There's a stupid moment, andf then there's consistent idiocy/zebra-like behaviour.

You and a few others seem to fall into the latter category, rather than the former.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 10:17am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I see what you're doing there...
Coming from the troll king of TD, that means alot!
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 10:19am

Re: Follow the agendas...
B.S. If this was a Republican Admin pushing these TSA practices, the Media would be falling all over themselves to be the first the bash the "bad politics� of the Republican Admin. As an Independent, I can�t stand either D or R, both are corrupt to the core. But the media is blindly biased. Thank you TechDirt for holding ALL Govt scum accountable.

Liberals can�t handle when Liberals go bad. Just search FOIA on TechDirt alone to see how fascist the Obama Admin has been toward our civil liberties. The most outrageous, yet unknown, is the:
Justice Department Wants To Be Able To Lie In Response To Freedom Of Information Requests
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Jay (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 10:24am

Re: Re:
Want the truth about Russia?
Read British media.

FTFY.

American media is too heavily corporatist to even be trusted to tell a good story.
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Bengie, 29 Dec 2011 @ 10:26am

Re: Re: I see what you're doing there...
"May I suggest you move to North Korea, and discover what it is really like to be "cattle"?"

I love your logic.

I only beat my wife 5 days of the week instead of 7 days like some people. I should be given and f*ck'n Peace Prize!
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The Devil's Coachman (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 10:29am

Re: Re: I see what you're doing there...
I see you just got your Masters in Douchebaggery.
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John Doe, 29 Dec 2011 @ 10:31am

We have been losing our 4th amendment right for a long time
We pretty much lost our 4th amendment right when we allowed the police to setup "license" checks in the name of catching drunk drivers. There is no probably cause to believe that everyone passing those checks is driving without a license so there is no cause to check them.

We also allow game wardens to check our coolers to make sure we haven't caught too many fish and we aren't taking glass bottles out on the waters. They can also stop and check your hunting license on private land. Yes, private land.

Now the TSA can not only put their hands on you, they can touch places that would get the rest of us on the registered sex offender list for life.
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The Devil's Coachman (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 10:33am

Re: Re: I see what you're doing there...
I see you just got your Masters in Douchebaggery.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 10:40am

Re: Bit off base
"If we forced them to do so"

We should just force them to relinquish their government established monopoly power over broadcasting and cableco infrastructure.

"we'd get to hear about big foot and aliens every other minute."

Have you ever watched the history/discovery channel? They can show that stuff there but they can't show this TSA stuff here?
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 10:41am

The Reason
Is that representatives of mainstream media can be held indefinitly in Gitmo if the cover this story.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 10:47am

A good portion of the citizens of the US have figured out we are not getting quality news but rather bias and slanted news at best. Many Russians have come to the same conclusions years ago about their news sources too.

I no longer listen to lamescream news provided by US sources. The bias is simply too much with too little unbiased facts. The best news sources are those outside the country without vested interests to get accurate news.

Funny you should mention that Pravda publishes what won't be published here. Yes, Pravda has it's own bias in this one but what is always more damaging in a news story is the kernel of truth to a story as that tends to set the reader up with the idea that if part of the story is true then the rest gets more credibility. It's a shame the kernel is there to begin with.

Along those lines, is another from Russia with problems of his own, trying for the same kernel of truth in accusations...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079531/What-cheek-Russia-criticises-U-S-h uman-rights-abuses.html
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Rob, 29 Dec 2011 @ 11:16am

If they don't want to tolerate my verbal abuse . . .
... then they can just not listen.

Last year I called a nasty and unprofessional TSA drone a name: she sent me to the rape-a-scan as punishment. I refused that, and got a pat-down instead.

Then I went and complained to the supervisor about getting the scanner as a punishment. The supervisor was not happy to learn that the agents were telling passengers that the the scanners were, effectively, a punitive device. I was asked to point out the offending pig-wannabe and the supervisor went to have a talk.

I don't care if they don't want to "tolerate" it. If it gets me on a no-fly list, all the better.

I'm going to go ahead and insist on maintaining my rights whether it makes anyone unhappy or not. TSA "agents" have no expectation of politeness -- particularly the obnoxious ones -- whether they are doing their job or not. When your job is to harass and demean, you better bet your ass you'll be getting some back. And I'll do them one better: I'll do it for free!
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The eejit (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 11:16am

Re: Re: Bit off base
No, what we should do, is kill them once their tenure is finished, and their earnings whilst in government be given to the State they were representing. And be upfront about it: once you're in the US government, it's a job for life. As soon as you're voted out, you're dead.

That would solve a few (but not all) of the problems with the US Government.
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The eejit (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 11:17am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I see what you're doing there...
I'm insane, what's your excuse?
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mechengr77 (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 11:18am

Re: We have been losing our 4th amendment right for a long time
Funny that they can set up these check points but they can not do the same to see if you are in the country legally...
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sks (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 11:22am

Control..
It doesn't seem odd to me at all that the mainstream media wouldn't publish this, they are notorious for not publishing real news or truths! They've been practicing fake news to keep the American public afraid and docile for 104 years, they're pros at it.
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sks (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 11:40am

Re: Re: Follow the agendas...
There is no republican versus liberals, that's all bullshit that the media, bankers and, our political system uses to keep us thinking we're divided from one another. Don't allow others to control you so easily.
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Stacey, 29 Dec 2011 @ 11:41am

Nationwide NDAA 2012 Congressional Protest
http://www.facebook.com/#!/events/335643799778967/
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Someantimalwareguy (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 11:54am

Re: Re: Follow the agendas...
Nice shootin' Tex, but you shot the wrong guy...

I said nothing whatsoever about current policies real or proposed, any political party, or even the current Administration. You gleefully missed the entire point of my post and then went on a completely irrelevant rant.

-10 Internets

To aide you in better reading comprehension, I will try to make it easy enough for even you to understand: There are NO independent news organizations! And this sad state of affairs is ideology AND party agnostic so please take the time in the future to actually read what someone says before you pull out a typical knee-jerk reaction because someone criticizes big media for what it really is - a propaganda arm for whatever that organization's masters want the people to hear, read, and see rather than how it should be with everyone hearing, reading, and seeing all sides of a particular story.

We should not have to seek truth and valid criticism in foreign media; especially when that media organization is also nothing more than a propaganda arm for THEIR masters in turn. It cheapens the story, dilutes the message, discourages frank debate, and stifles efforts to bring about real substantive change when necessary because the reporting agency is, by default, already corrupted.
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el_segfaulto (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 12:06pm

Re: Re: Re:
Oh now, they tell plenty of good stories. Usually about magical animals like industries that are "too big to fail" and "job creators". Now if you want a good, true story I'd stick with BBC, NPR, and Al Jazeera.
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prefixthx (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 12:39pm

Well, Pravda published it because it makes us look bad--and rightly so! This is just one more reason why I drive whenever possible: TSA automatons.
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John Doe, 29 Dec 2011 @ 12:49pm

Re: Re: We have been losing our 4th amendment right for a long time
Funny that you mention that. My barber was complaining about the DMV getting her name wrong on her car registration. She was having to get all kinds of documents and forms of ID to get it corrected. Yet the illegals get ushered right through and special help and don't even need documentation at all.
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btr1701 (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 1:58pm

Re: We have been losing our 4th amendment right for a long time
> There is no probably cause to believe...

There is also no probable cause to believe that there's any such thing as 'probably cause'.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 3:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Follow the agendas...
Trying to pass off the obvious �There are NO independent news organizations!� as the basis of your intellectual argument is funny. I agree, the �US Mainstream Media� reports according to their master�s wishes & they are a propaganda arm (the point of my previous post). It�s your �money-trail� Excuse theory for the media�s bias that really exposes your true agenda, misdirection. Blame it on the money/straw man, it couldn�t possibly just be a liberal bias media. The US Mainstream Media is covering for the Obama Admin and won�t report on the march toward fascism. This is liberal vs The Truth at this point. Seach DOJ or ICE or Obama on TechDirt for stories the �US Mainstream Media� won�t report on to provide Obama cover.

Mike�s point � �US Mainstream Media Refuses Op-Ed About TSA Eroding Civil Liberties��. The US Mainstream Media should be called out for their blatant disregard of the Obama Admin�s fascist steps toward destroying our civil liberties. The last thing we need are more Excuses.

I think Bush, Dickhead Cheney & Rummy should be in Jail. I also know that Obama has abandoned his Oath by killing a US Citizen without a trial & compiling an Assassination List to kill US citizens without trials. Didn�t Hitler do that?
Civil Rights Groups Challenge Obama�s Assassination List - Jonathan Turley
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 3:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Follow the agendas...
Video - Obama�s Hit List of American Citizens
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 3:45pm

Re: Re: I see what you're doing there...
So... we should ignore people trying to lessen our own quality of life because others have it worse. Stop and think about just how little sense your statement actually makes. (And my entire household, though wealthier than many of the countries you've got in mind, is just barely above the US poverty level, so please leave your caviar dreams in dreamland.)
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Richard (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 3:46pm

Re: Re: Re:
Want the truth about Russia?
Read British media.

Yes - probably better - provided you confine yourself to the BBC and the Guardian - wouldn't touch Murdoch media or the Daily Mail - Mirror, Telegraph, Financial Times OK some of the time. Daily Express- less said the better...
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Ken McHenry (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 4:09pm

Bill of Rights?
With the creation of HOMELAND SECURITY (read.. GESTAPO...)
what we were taught in school to be the BILL of RIGHTS has been turned into the BILL of WRONGS!
Study the germany of WWII, in particular the german SS...then compare them with the CIA of America today...
The last President of America that tried to strip the CIA of it's power was JOHN F. KENNEDY....and he was murdered!..
President Ronald Reagan stated he would never have George Bush (former DIRECTOR of the CIA)as vice president three months before he chose bush for V.P. and both were elected to the White House....Three months into his presidency A young man named Hinckly (I believe) tried to assasinate Reagan..which would have put Bush in the Presidency....this was the beginning of the shredding of our constitution!...Bush mentioned a ONE WORLD ORDER many times but the only way that can happen is to destroy our soverinity....and the Bushes have nearly accomplished this...along with both houses of congress that refuse to work for the common people.( unless by common we mean those people that have less than multimillion $ accounts)...
we, as a people need to take back OUR COUNTRY before we lose it alltogether....
Look up the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA
read the BILL of RIGHTS and see how "FREE" you really are!
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Ken McHenry (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 4:34pm

News Media
When I was young, I was taught about the difference between Americas FREE PRESS and the RUSSIAN's GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED press... In describing our news media my teacher use the phrase ...BASTION OF TRUTH"...and I thought she attributed it to BENJAMINE FRANKLIN.
Whatever happened??? Today, only six individuals own ninety-five or ninety-eight percent of all written or broadcast news media sources in America...
There used to be, (on satalite, and cable) a news outlet
calles FSTV (FREE SPEACH T.V.)..it was staffed by reporters like Amy Alkon who were fed up with the restrictions put on them by the companies they were formally employed by.
Companies such as CNN, FOX NEWS, ABC,CBS, NBC etc., etc.,
When they reported a story, they would spend as much as an hour giving both sides of the story, not just one or two paragraphs and switch to BULL like we get today...
I just wonder if PRAVDA, or possibly BEIJING TIMES may not be the up and comming "BASTION of TROTH that we used to enjoy in America
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2011 @ 4:34pm

Re: Re: Bit off base
Yea, yea, we all know the TSA is bad, where is your outrage against the media's liberal bias for refusing to call out the Obama Admin and the Unionized TSA??
What�s the matter, Commie got your tongue??
"US Mainstream Media Refuses Op-Ed About TSA Eroding Civil Liberties..."
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Ken McHenry (profile), 29 Dec 2011 @ 4:52pm

News Media
When I was young, I was taught about the difference between Americas FREE PRESS and the RUSSIAN's GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED press... In describing our news media my teacher use the phrase ...BASTION OF TRUTH"...and I thought she attributed it to BENJAMINE FRANKLIN.
Whatever happened??? Today, only six individuals own ninety-five or ninety-eight percent of all written or broadcast news media sources in America...
There used to be, (on satalite, and cable) a news outlet
calles FSTV (FREE SPEACH T.V.)..it was staffed by reporters like Amy Alkon who were fed up with the restrictions put on them by the companies they were formally employed by.
Companies such as CNN, FOX NEWS, ABC,CBS, NBC etc., etc.,
When they reported a story, they would spend as much as an hour giving both sides of the story, not just one or two paragraphs and switch to BULL like we get today...
I just wonder if PRAVDA, or possibly BEIJING TIMES may not be the up and comming "BASTION of TROTH that we used to enjoy in America
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abc gum, 29 Dec 2011 @ 5:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Bit off base
Still don't get it I see.
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MC, 30 Dec 2011 @ 5:33am

You know, after reading the piece, i think the fact that no MSM would print it is less to do with conspiracy and more to do with the fact that it takes a very, very serious civil liberties issue and conflates it with boorish feminist tripe.
Infact the whole tone of the article seemed to suggest that TSA manhandling is only a bad thing when it happens to women(OMG MY VULVA!)

I take umbrage of this shit.
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fedupwiththesystem (profile), 30 Dec 2011 @ 11:56am

I don't want to be groped/raped so I don't fly. Since TSA is moving into other public tranportation systems, I won't use them either. If it comes down to being groped/raped to get into a taxi or city bus, I'll stop riding them also. I am not going to allow them to force me to be "felt up." This is tragic for this to go on. Unfortunately, the sleeping masses are going to realize that there is a problem when it is too late, thus, only when the "gestapo" are kicking in their doors and arresting them for any or no reason, detaining and searching them and their vehicles on side the road, forced labor camps, or some similar scenario.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 Dec 2011 @ 3:21pm

For more news the maistream media doesn't bring you:
http://www.prisonplanet.com

http://www.informationliberation.com
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Chosen Reject (profile), 3 Jan 2012 @ 2:47pm

Re: Re: Re: Bit off base
That wouldn't solve anything. All despots know that once they're "voted" out of office that they are dead, that's why they go to such great lengths to ensure that they aren't "voted" out. If you made a law that being voted out meant death, the only people that would run would be psychopaths whose first actions would be to ensure they can't get voted out, and those actions do not spell freedom.
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