US State Dept: Don't Censor The Internet! Unless We Order You To, As We Did In Spain...

from the sing-a-song-of-hypocrisy dept

Thu, Jan 5th 2012 4:25pm — Mike Masnick

We've discussed how the State Department, and Hillary Clinton in particular, have been spending a lot of time talking up the importance of internet freedom, and speaking out against countries that censor the internet. That even resulted in Joe Biden's unintentionally hilarious explanation of why internet censorship is horrible... while he supports internet censorship at home.

It seems like there's a real disconnect in our government, however, when the censorship is couched in the word "copyright." We just wrote about how Spain adopted its SOPA-like law this week, despite widespread public outrage. We had noted that the US State Department was a major force behind the bill, and (no surprise) more news has leaked that there was more of the same behind this new decision to adopt the Sinde Law. It's been leaked that, just last month, State Department officials threatened the Spanish government that if it didn't pass the law, there would be repercussions. This was a letter from US ambassador Alan Solomont to the outgoing Spanish government, sent December 12th, in which he talked about "promises" made to the US government:

"The government has unfortunately failed to finish the job for political reasons, to the detriment of the reputation and economy of Spain... The government of Spain made commitments to the rights owners and to the US government. Spain can not afford to see their credibility questioned on this issue."

Stunning. Because, in actuality, the commitment the Spanish government has is to its own citizens -- who are very much against the bill. The only thing that raises questions about Spain's "credibility" is caving to US diplomatic pressure to censor the internet.

Meanwhile, if we want to talk "credibility," the US State Department is increasingly losing its credibility on this issue. How can any diplomat, with a straight face, go public talking about internet freedom and being against censorship, when the State Department demanded Spain pass a law that allows for censoring the internet?

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Filed Under: alan solomont, censorship, free speech, hypocrisy, internet freedom, sinde, spain, state department

50 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 4:37pm

Silly mike, you are linking to Classified Info. This is the exact reason we need SOPA/PIPA to keep the masses from knwoing the cat is out of the bag.
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Rob, 5 Jan 2012 @ 4:54pm

Credibility?
"the US State Department is increasingly losing its credibility on this issue"

See, there's your mistake. You granted them credibility in the first place.
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Justin Olbrantz (Quantam), 5 Jan 2012 @ 4:55pm

Catastrophe
Clearly Spain's economy was so completely decimated by the rampant piracy that they couldn't even be bothered to pass stronger copyright laws, and had to have their arm twisted by foreign interests until they gave in and allowed themselves to be saved.

Death to pirates.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 5:09pm

Stunning. Because, in actuality, the commitment the Spanish government has is to its own citizens -- who are very much against the bill.

What a rube. It's like you live in Mayberry or something Masnick. Governments make commitments to other countries all the time. What do you want a referendum every time? Face it, you mask your sniveling with the contrived injustice to Spanish citizens. Fact is that it is this particular commitment that has your panties in a knot, not your laughable notion of a government's decision-by-decision accountability to its citizens.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 5 Jan 2012 @ 5:11pm

Re:
No quit your day job... your not good enough to troll here.

0/10 - not even a blip in the blood pressure
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 5 Jan 2012 @ 5:14pm

If you look at all of the other times the US has meddled in other countries affairs its really hard to find a time they didn't screw up.

Maybe the new rule of thumb for the rest of the world should be if the US is for it, be against it. Not talking about what the publicly say but all of the closed room antics they go through to keep corporations happy.

Oooh trade sanctions with the US... what is it that we make here again? Once upon a time that might have been a real threat, nowdays... not so much.
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Zos (profile), 5 Jan 2012 @ 5:21pm

Re:
so...you're against governments being accountable to their citizens
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This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 5:30pm

Re: Re:
Obviously you're stung by your low standing in the Annual Techdirt Douchebag Awards and are looking to break out in 2012. I can understand your despair...... being bested by Marcus. But pithy responses have never been your forte. If it's recognition you (obviously) seek, better to petition Masnick to add a category like "Biggest Loser" or "Coolest Bachelor Pad In His Mom's Basement". You'd be a lock.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 5:33pm

Re: Re:
No. That's what elections are for. I don't feel a need to consult every citizen on every single policy decision. Are you slow, or do you simply not see that a government cannot function this way.
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Justin Olbrantz (Quantam), 5 Jan 2012 @ 5:36pm

Re: Re: Re:
I don't think he has a chance of taking the Annual Douchebag award from you, but it's so nice to see you trying to console those they've bested. The world really needs more gracious winners like you.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 5 Jan 2012 @ 5:44pm

Re: Re: Re:
Obviously you're stung by your low standing in the Annual Techdirt Douchebag Awards

And obviously you're stung by not being invited to host them. Someone with a "Lifetime Achievement Award" in douchebaggery shouldn't even have to ask to be considered. It should be a given.

BTW, Foursquare has just made me mayor of your mom's basement. I've been helping her open up her wi-fi, among other things.
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Franklin G Ryzzo (profile), 5 Jan 2012 @ 5:46pm

Re: Re: Re:
There is a big difference between consulting every citizen and being held accountable to the citizens you represent. You don't need to ask every single person to understand that what you are supporting is representative of what they feel should or should not happen. Being that you are the king of intellectual dishonesty it may be hard to fathom that some people actually believe their governments should act in their best interests and represent the will of the people, but it's true.

Having a bad day? Your ad-homs and strawmen are particularly weak this evening?
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 5 Jan 2012 @ 5:48pm

Re: Re: Re:
So, you're fine with your elected officials being told by other officials you didn't elect (because you couldn't -- they're from an entirely different country) what kind of legislation they're going to pass?

The hell kind of representation is that?
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Justin Olbrantz (Quantam), 5 Jan 2012 @ 5:50pm

Re: Re:
Not at all. He fully supports governments being accountable to their citizens as well as their corporate sponsors: when the two want the same thing he supports accountability to the citizens; otherwise he supports accountability to the corporate sponsors.

Democracy at work.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 5:54pm

Re: Re: Re:
"Finding out what the citizens want is too hard. Screw due process!"
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Justin Olbrantz (Quantam), 5 Jan 2012 @ 5:56pm

Re:
Where's that one guy talking about how boycotting is a violation of people's free speech, and something only done by Nazis? Oh yeah, that only applies when citizens voluntarily boycott a company he likes. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a government forcing its people to boycott the businesses of a country he hates.

Or so he tells me.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 6:08pm

Silly Spain, daring to enforce copyright law.
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Justin Olbrantz (Quantam), 5 Jan 2012 @ 6:26pm

Re:
"Naughty, naughty Spain, daring to not enforce copyright law without being forced by the US."

Fixed that for you.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 6:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Spain has a choice to make. Pass laws that make it harder for your citizens to loot American intellectual property or deal with the consequences of denying our request. They made a decision that they believed what was in the best interests of their country. Countries leverage their position with other countries all the time. Do you not understand the way the world works, Goober? For people who claim to be so technologically sophisticated, there's a shocking lack awareness outside of your LARP leagues.

China buys US debt by the bushel basket, not because they think it's such a dandy investment but because it provides leverage. Every country that can leverages it position to its own advantage. You clowns may be the kings of your fantasy worlds, but you live in the real world. You should try to understand it too.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 6:47pm

Re: Re: Re:
Yeah, cuz that hopey changey thingy worked SOOOOO well.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 6:55pm

Re:
I agree, it is silly to enforce laws that shouldn't even exist. Abolish IP laws.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 7:00pm

Re: Re: Re:
Pure represenatative democracy is not working. We do need some direct democracy influences. When a LOT of people oppose a law, they should actually be able to stop it, or at the very least put it through a long process of public debate.

Signing it in secret is NOT how democracy should be done.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 7:01pm

Re: Re: Re:
Pure representative democracy is not working. We do need some direct democracy influences. When a LOT of people oppose a law, they should actually be able to stop it, or at the very least put it through a long process of public debate.

Signing it in secret is NOT how democracy should be done.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 7:20pm

Re: Re: Re:
Of course you don't feel the need to consult the population, you are not a public representative.

Because if you were one, you would listen to what your constituency says before embarking in quixotic endeavors like copyBS protection.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 7:20pm

Machiavelli would be proud
US State used the double entendre �Spain can not afford to see their credibility questioned on this issue." That is exactly how you threaten a heavily in debt country (due to Socialists over-promised social benefits � see also; Greece).

It starts by giving the people what they want until the shit hits the fan and the govt has to step all over the people�s rights to stay �in control�. History of the world.
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Justin Olbrantz (Quantam), 5 Jan 2012 @ 7:24pm

Re: Machiavelli would be proud
The great irony here is that the US is far more in debt than Spain.

...actually, it's quite possible that's the reason the US is doing this to begin with.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 7:28pm

The U.S. government is just funny.

Feds Want Judge to Force Suspect to Give Up Laptop Password marvelous display of how to uphold the US constitution there and done no less by the US government.

Sir James Dyson: China Stalls IP Reform at Its Own Peril I used to like that guy he spent years living off of his wife work trying to invent something better and he did, now he keep saying that he needs protection. I saw some of his latests products he ripped off everybody else and he claims he needs others to respect his bogus patents?
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 8:12pm

Spain was also the country where more than 90% of its citizens was opposed to joining the war in Iraq, yet the Spanish govt sedn troops anyway.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 8:19pm

Re: Re: Machiavelli would be proud
That is like saying the surgeon is far more in debt than the ditch digger because the former has owes $50,000 and the latter owes $500. It's all relative. Keep spending yourselves into oblivion and maybe Google will buy you.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 5 Jan 2012 @ 8:21pm

Re: Re: Re:
*yawn*

0/10 - well at least mom thinks your funny... looking. :D

And if your primitive mind could actually comprehend words other people write, you'd see I was honored to place that high on both lists. When you consider I've not been here that long and originally came just to deal with the Copyright Troll lawyers, I think I found a place where I fit in.

But you keep reaching for the stars, maybe someday you will find someplace where people think your brand of "instant troll" just add insults will make you popular.
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LC (profile), 5 Jan 2012 @ 8:30pm

I love it that the department of state routinely calls for a free and open internet and yet they're doing sweet f*ck all about SOPA/PIPA.

That alone is enough for people to stop listening to them. Why aren't they?
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Justin Olbrantz (Quantam), 5 Jan 2012 @ 8:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Machiavelli would be proud
Indeed. The US is the surgeon that owes you $50,000,000. The US owes far more than Spain in both absolute ($ value) and relative (% of GDP) terms.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Jan 2012 @ 8:58pm

"It's not censorship if it's removing stuff I don't like!"

Are there some meds that these people are off of? I know it's unlikely, but it'd be great if they could just start taking their pills again and get their self-awareness and empathy back.
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hmm (profile), 5 Jan 2012 @ 10:07pm

What I find funny is
That the US (cash) debt is 15.1 trillion, but the asset debts are around 156 trillion (multiple times the value of the entire planet).

At this point money is the same as IP, just a method of controlling mass populations and hoping they won't rise up against you.........

The big problem however is that the top-end rich people have gathered most of the wealth to themselves by making the vast majority of the population poor, meaning the poor can't continue to buy things to keep the rich rich.

And whats the point in having billions if its just bits of paper that people start to ignore as they switch to either bartering or localized currencies?

The whole system could be about to reach an interesting feedback loop where the top-rich have 99.99999999% of the GOVERNMENT SACTIONED money, but the overwhelming population doesn't give a rats ass because it uses another system entirely.....
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PaulT (profile), 6 Jan 2012 @ 1:13am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yeah, so much easier than allowing Spanish citizen to access content legally.

When will you morons learn that legal sanctions don't matter in the slightest when you block people from legally buying your crap? 15 years of this idiotic argument, and I'm no nearer to being able to legally access a service like Netflix, Hulu or even being allowed to buy some titles that would be freely available to me if not for artificial region coding. But, yeah, you have to destroy freedom of speech to get your profit. Idiot.

"your fantasy worlds"

You are the expert on fantasy worlds, after all. Most AC posts here do seem to fail to address reality. It's much harder to address the real problems with your business after all, than it is to whine to governments about "piracy".
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PaulT (profile), 6 Jan 2012 @ 1:14am

Re:
"Silly Spain, daring to enforce foreign copyright law at the behest of companies who don't even offer a legal purchase option to Spanish citizens"

FTFY
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Richard (profile), 6 Jan 2012 @ 1:19am

Re: Re:
Sorry - I read that as deliberate sarcasm ...
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Richard (profile), 6 Jan 2012 @ 1:22am

Re: Re: Re:
do you simply not see that a government cannot function this way.

I see Switzerland - the living proof that you are wrong.
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anonymous, 6 Jan 2012 @ 1:32am

the USA should now definitely be put on the 'we will not trade with you' list of the rest of the world. see how they like that!
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 4:36am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
The question is what the 'representative democracy' represents. The people do not truly have a say in who is elected, despite what they try to feed us all. The real voters are the Electoral college and the corporations that funnel money into politics.
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gorehound (profile), 6 Jan 2012 @ 5:52am

My Country of the USA sucks so bad now.It is all going downhill and we are losing all the civil rights we once had.Soon the Government will finally bite off more than it can chew.
Viva Le Revolution !!!
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 6:34am

Re:
"laughable notion of a government's decision-by-decision accountability to its citizens"

Tell us what you really think.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 6:41am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So your argument is that because the world currently works that way that's how it should always work? Garner enough outrage and change is sure to follow...
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 6:44am

Re: Re: Re:
You open with 'no' but the rest of your comment screams 'YES' into a bull-horn.
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Violated (profile), 6 Jan 2012 @ 7:51am

Clinton
Hilary Clinton sure owes us an explanation. All her long discussions on a free, fair, open and uncensored Internet, followed by her SOPA/PIPA concerns, then she is the very head of foreign policy in the State Department that FORCED Spain to do everything she claims she hates.

Arggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fucking politicians would sell their soul to the Devil for a gold coin. I can't wait for the next time Hilary is taking public questions to highlight the colour of her hypercritical actions. Had she any honour she would condemn this Spanish censorship and quit.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 7:59am

Re: Clinton
If they could grind babies and puppies to turn them into cash, and get away with it, they would. No question about it.
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ZeeBat (profile), 6 Jan 2012 @ 8:24am

Awesome!
Now we manipulate countries and overrule their own citizenry for the enforcement of obsoleted business models.

Awesome is what awesome does.

Shouldn't we be taxing their paychecks now? All your governments are belong to us.
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hmm (profile), 6 Jan 2012 @ 8:52am

well
At least we aren't dropping bombs on spain (yet), though that plan has probably floated through the administration at least once or twice.

Those pirates have their servers in BUNKERS yes?...and we have Bunker Buster Bombs....what are we waiting for?
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hmm (profile), 6 Jan 2012 @ 8:54am

Also
There's a saying "misery loves company".

If the US is becoming (sorry HAS BECOME since Obama is now a de-facto dictator and doesn't represent the people anymore) a totalitarian state and the dollar is considered worthless, why don't we take a few other countries down with us.

Side note - how long do you think it is before the current administration "suspends" the electoral system because of "homeland terrorists".......and simply 'disappears' anyone who disagrees?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Jan 2012 @ 9:50am

Re: Also
Video - Obama�s Hit List of American Citizens -Dylan Ratigan

Obama�s Hit List of American Citizens -Jonathan Turley
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