NBC News Doesn't Understand Fair Use; Demands Mitt Romney Remove Ads That Use TV News Clips

from the oh-please dept

Mon, Jan 30th 2012 8:37am — Mike Masnick

Here we go again. Four years ago, during the presidential campaign, we had CBS News threaten the McCain campaign for using some news footage clips in a campaign ad. And here we are, four years later, with NBC Universal demanding that the Romney campaign remove an ad it's using against Newt Gingrich, making use of old TV news footage. This strikes us as bizarre (and ridiculous) as it did four years ago. In many cases, these ads are likely to be considered fair use. But, secondly, is it really any harm to NBC News if Romney uses classic footage? I mean, the news reports are what NBC News had reported in the past. Essentially acting like it hadn't -- by trying to block the use of the footage -- just seems silly.

NBC, of course, wants to claim that this is about not having its newscasters be seen as "endorsing" a candidate. Again, however, that's ridiculous. No one is going to see these reports and think that the Tom Brokaw from the 90s was magically endorsing a candidate running for President today. I just can't see how or why NBC Universal would make this move. Not only does it make the company look petty, it also calls that much more attention to the ad that they thought they were going to kill.

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Filed Under: copyright, fair use, mitt romney, newt gingrich
Companies: nbc universal

51 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 8:43am

Petty
"Not only does it make the company look petty,"

At least in this case, looks are not deceiving.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 8:46am

So if I see footage of Brokaw commenting on a train accident, I'm to believe he is...approving the train accident?

And don't news shows use other networks' news footage (with or without newscaster) all the time when talking about past events?
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 8:47am

It's not CBS and NBC news. Fox News sued a few democrats in the last few years for using some Fox News clips of Fox reporters attacking republican candidates in their ads.

Of course Fox News was totally silent when republican candidates did the exact same thing in their ads attacking democrats.
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- Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 8:59am
  
  Re:
  Isn't fantastic how copyright can be used to censor political speech and get away with it?
  
  And people wonder why granting exclusion powers to idiots is a good idea.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 8:49am

NBC Universal are only doing this because they can. if they could be penalised because doing it is wrong, they wouldn't do it.
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- :Lobo Santo (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 8:50am
  
  Re: Legalities
  It's only barely illegal to bring farcical lawsuits against people.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - That Anonymous Coward (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 8:53am
    
    Re: Re: Legalities
    and yet copyright trolls flourish in the US...
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - The eejit (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 10:02am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Legalities
      Well, the idea of copyright trolls, anyway. It's sort of like the Myth of the Gunslinger in Wild West folklore.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Killercool (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 2:26pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Legalities
        So there are enough around to make you look over your shoulder every time you go outside, even if your chances of getting shot are phenomenally low.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 2:34pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Legalities
        Idea of copyright trolls? Copyright trolls are a myth? Son, the eastern distract of texas is not a fairytale.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:07am
  
  Re:
  Right things are only wrong if they are illegal, now if you will excuse me I have to get back to walking around insulting pregnant women.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Hephaestus (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:22am
  
  Re:
  No, they are doing as payback, for all the republican candidate coming out against SOPA and PIPA.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Simon, 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:32am
    
    Re: Re:
    We need SOCA - Stop Orwellian Copyright Abuse
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
pixelpusher220 (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 8:54am

and also...
Perhaps they shouldn't allow Brokaw to be a guest on political talk shows...
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- John Smith, 30 Jan 2012 @ 10:05am
  
  Re: and also...
  Hi, frankly speaking I had the same thinking..
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Kevin H (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 10:44am
  
  Re: and also...
  One better; Perhaps NBC should stay out of politics all together.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Brad C (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 8:56am

I think I'm with NBC on this one. Fair use would make sense if they were just showing a few seconds of a news clip and then commenting on it or adding to it in some substantial way. This commercial is nothing more than content taken from NBC and the federally required endorsement from the candidate. If I turned in a college paper that met the same standards I'd get kicked of of school for plagiarism.
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- Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:04am
  
  Re:
  It's only plagiarism if you don't provide citation for the facts that were used. The clip is clearly credited at the beginning of the ad, so there's no plagiarism occurring here.
  
  Here's the thing - the context was to demonstrate that in 1997, Gingrich was accused of some heinous crimes - showing the actual *NEWS* clips of the event is a powerful way to demonstrate that fact.
  
  What's missing is that he was eventually cleared of the charges, but that's just petty political ad bullshit there.
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- Nathan F (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:15am
  
  Re:
  Then it comes down to how much of the article was used? Was it a half hour interview of which they used 30 seconds? Was it a two minute spot to which they used 30 seconds?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- MrWilson, 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:18am
  
  Re:
  Not only is it not plagiarism since the source is cited, but plagiarism has nothing to do with copyright law. It's all about whether or not the content was authorized to be used or whether or not the usage of the content needed to be authorized.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- weneedhelp (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 10:15am
  
  Re:
  Sorry Brad but when the only historical evidence of someone saying something, especially politicians, is a news clip, then I believe it becomes more than a news group owning something. Its benefit to society greatly outweighs ANY profit, or profit loss, claimed by said news co. and should not be copyrightable.
  
  "If I turned in a college paper"
  This isn't school, its life.
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Vidiot (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:11am

Think of the talent
Having licensed NBC footage in the past for various projects, the usual refrain involves the on-air talent's rights as individuals: "No problem letting you use that clip. However, we can't give permission for you to use the newscaster's likeness... that needs to come from them." Which means "no".
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- Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:30am
  
  Re: Think of the talent
  Blur his likeness.
  It will be fantastic to see how copyright affects politics if they are forced to do it in public.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Kevin H (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 10:46am
    
    Re: Re: Think of the talent
    Its really stupid that it needs to be done in the first place. If Brokaw was willing to do the story in 97, he shouldn't be trying to hide it now.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:17am

The use of the clip in Romney's political ad here in Florida is undoubtedly fair use.

The title of this article is undoubtedly poetic license stretched to its elastic limits.

"Request" and "demand" are not at all synomyms, and yet you use them as such.

By the way, there is no mention of a DMCA takedown notice. It seems to me this should have been a clue to you that this is a private matter, and not a legal one.
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- Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:23am
  
  Re:
  So, if I request you remove your right arm rather than demand it, that somehow changes the fundamental nature of the request?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 4:09pm
  
  Re:
  Yeah, the letter written by NBC lawyers is certainly just a "request" and not a "legal matter" at all.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 5:46pm
    
    Re: Re:
    I am pleased you agree with my comment.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 11:50pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Sigh.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 31 Jan 2012 @ 4:53am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      So may I presume you had no answer to my comment?
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
CD (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:19am

Quick shutdown the campaign website, freeze all assets, and delete the data within a week or two.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:20am

Give Mit a break the guy is battered already.

Bloomberg's amazing -- and rejected -- Mitt Romney cover
http://boingboing.net/2012/01/26/bloombergs-amazing-and-re.html
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:24am

http://boingboing.net/2012/01/27/in-russia-tiny-protest-sparks.html

Wall-E supports opposition of Vladimir Putin in Russia!
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- Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:25am
  
  Re:
  Sorry that should read Disney not Wall-e.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
jailbait, 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:53am

I'm not sure I agree with you on this one...

Newt was eventually vindicated against all of the issues brought up by the newscaster... by only showing a newscaster talking about charges (without fully stating that Newt was later found innocent) - this should be considered misleading and/or libelous. I'm no fan of Newt's, but I would have to agree that this charge is unfair and sneaky.
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- Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 10:12am
  
  Re:
  Unfair and sneaky probably but it should get brought down by Newts not NBC and not for copyright reasons.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- weneedhelp (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 10:18am
  
  Re:
  "this charge is unfair and sneaky"
  Jailbait is new to politics. Welcome aboard.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Nathan F (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 10:22am
  
  Re:
  As a voter you should do your own due diligence and look up what that was about on your own if you don't remember that personally.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 1:15pm
  
  Re:
  Copyright is not a tool for major corporations to use to protect third parties (or anyone else) from misleading statements or defamation.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
gorehound (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 9:55am

Join my Facebook Group Boycott Big Content.
NBC & The rest of the Big Studios need to be taught a lesson by the people and for the people.
I hate anything that has to do with the MPAA/RIAA
This News Story did not surprise me at all.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 10:04am

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

I'm trying really hard to think of a way in which this applies to archived news stories from 15 years ago; but I can't. I guess that means I'm not smart enough to be a member of Congress.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 10:10am

NBC should ask Disney to send the Mickey Troopers.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 10:14am

Copyright is to democracy what Pedobear is to children.
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AB, 30 Jan 2012 @ 10:16am

This is exactly why we need bills like SOPA/ACTA to put a stop to such blatant copyright infringement! How can any hard working artist hope to survive against such piracy of their hard work? Millions of people saw their logo without paying for the privilege!!
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- Kevin H (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 10:50am
  
  Re:
  not bad.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Bt Garner (profile), 30 Jan 2012 @ 12:39pm

I can certainly understand why NBC news would have issue with this. The way Romney is using the newscast, could be perceived as NBC news attacking Newt and endorsing Romney. To maintain a non-bias news perception, NBC wants to ensure that they are not perceived as favoring one candidate over another.

I understand the whole fair use side of the argument, but I can also see a strong push to keep the News in a non-biased position, and Romney's use of this news cast could certainly bring that into question, even though NBC and Brokaw had nothing to do with the ad.
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- Anonymous Coward, 30 Jan 2012 @ 1:41pm
  
  Re:
  Still has nothing to do with copyright, which is the bludgeon they're trying to use. If anyone has a dog in the fight it's Gingrich, not the news organization.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
darryl, 31 Jan 2012 @ 1:53am

Who is "US" ??
This strikes us as bizarre (and ridiculous) as it did four years ago.

Who is "US" ??? Masnick, dont you have the balls to use ME

It is typical of your type of personality, the use of "US" means that you can defer responsibility to 'someone else'.

It is a shame that you are willing to make claims and accusations (usually false), but do not have the balls to put your own reputation and personal mark on those statements.

Or is the use of "us" some kind of assumption that we all believe everything you say as accurate, balanced and/or true ?

The constant use quotations from others is another example of your clear lack of balls. You simply do not have to balls (or intellect) to form your own opinions, so you constantly have to steal the opinions off others to make your 'case'.
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- Anonymous Coward, 2 Feb 2012 @ 1:17am
  
  Re: Who is "US" ??
  Oh, right. Clearly someone who places his name for everyone to see has less balls than someone who conveniently forgets to sign a name that has little more credibility than a pseudonym. What's your full name, "darryl", and what's your stake in all this?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Gerald Robinson (profile), 31 Jan 2012 @ 10:09am

More Lamestreammedia bias
The Lamestream media supports the as is socialists and don't want any one who has a chance of disrupting their monopoly and comfy relationship with the corrupt government to succeed. Purely partisan politics.
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Snidely, 2 Feb 2012 @ 1:23am

Dead men can't endorse...
It's a shame this wasn't done by ABC news. I would have loved to hear them argue that Peter Jennings was secretly endorsing Mitt from beyond the grave.
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