Pro-SOPA Folks Push Fact-Challenged Op-Eds
from the at-the-sopa... dept
It seems that, in the wake of the big protests that helped shelve (for now, at least) SOPA and PIPA, the pro-SOPA folks have started pushing people to write op-eds in various publications about how important SOPA/PIPA are -- while simultaneously dismissing the concerns of those who opposed the bills. I keep seeing more of them, but wanted to dig into three recent examples, all of which show how the pro-SOPA folks are trying to distort the debate through either outright falsehoods, or carefully misleading statements.We'll start with Duff McKagan, the founding bassist for Guns N' Roses. He wrote a piece for Seatle Weekly telling people to stop whining about SOPA and PIPA. The logic here doesn't make much sense to me. His argument is that people should have done big web protests about online infringement, not about attempts to censor the internet. Now, obviously, he thinks that's in his own best interests -- but, as we've seen pretty clearly over the years (and contrary to his claims), these reports of infringement destroying the entertainment industry is just not supported by the data.
The fury from the Internet class is that the broad language in the pieces of legislation will be bad for start-ups, might prevent the next YouTube, or give the government the ability to take down a whole site because of one link to copyrighted works. In short, they're opposed to the legislation because they think it will be bad for the Internet business.No, actually, the fury was that it would be bad for internet users -- including, by the way, plenty of musicians. And, again, the evidence that piracy has "claimed" half the market is simply not there. The recorded music business was a temporary bubble, but that money continued to flow (and grow) into the wider music industry. And, the prospect of making a living as a musician has not decreased -- it's increased. What McKagan doesn't recognize is that, in the past, nearly everyone who went into the music business was not as lucky as he was. Nearly all of them ended up getting pushed out while making next to nothing. Today, however, thanks to the very "internet businesses" he doesn't care about -- companies like TuneCore and TopSpin and Kickstarter and Bandcamp -- plenty of new artists can make a living that they wouldn't have been able to make before. They don't have to rely on Universal Music or EMI or Warner Music or Sony Music. They can do it themselves.
Bad for business. Anti-piracy legislation could be bad for the Internet business. It almost takes my breath away. Internet piracy has claimed half of the recorded music business, and made the prospect of making a living as a musician harder for artists of all rank and file. Why didn't Google, or Facebook, or Wikipedia ever stand in solidarity with musicians, actors, and writers - most of whom have never known fame and fortune - as their works were stolen with no recourse on their sites?
Then we move on to Gavin Polone, writing for NY Mag, about why he supports SOPA and his theory for why the entertainment industry "blew it" in trying to get this bill passed.
I have funded two films with my own money and am considering doing a third. Most of the people working on those films were not rich people, but rather middle-class craftsmen who make high-five-figure to low-six-figure sums per year. My decision on whether to fund another movie, thereby employing more people, will be based on whether or not I get my money back on the last two, and my prospects for making money on another. If a film of mine is put on a file-sharing site like Pirate Bay, Movieberry, and Newsbin2, and is then downloaded to potential customers, I lose revenue. Nobody is going to pay to see a movie in a theater, rent a DVD, or legitimately download or stream a movie once they already have it from a free pirate site.If you think that way, perhaps it's true. But if you actually don't have a closed mind and look around at what other people are doing and realize that people are more than willing to pay if you treat them right, the entire premise that Polone has is wrong. Of course, if you naturally assume that your fans are evil, then don't be surprised if they don't want to support you.
Other industries have laws to protect them against third parties whose businesses facilitate a crime. Why not entertainment?Ah, the "lawless" argument. This is ridiculous. Copyright law has been adjusted 16 times in the last 35 years, much of it to deal with new digital technologies. To claim that there are no laws to protect you is simply ridiculous. But, more to the point, as we've said over and over again, the best protection is to connect with your fans rather than pretend they're all out to get you. Polone fails there. That's his fault, not everyone else's.
This is in no way censorship. A widely read op-ed piece by Rebecca MacKinnon in the New York Times likened SOPA and PIPA to China’s Internet firewall, which is used by that government to stifle criticism of its policies. This is a ridiculous exaggeration. There is no intent to suppress speech in these bills, only theft, and the risks of anyone being unable to find an outlet for their free speech because of SOPA or PIPA is minimal.It is not a ridiculous exaggeration at all. And the intent of the bill is meaningless compared to how it will be used -- and we know that it will be used for censorship because we've already seen existing copyright law used for censorship. This isn't a theory, this is reality.
Blocking offenders will not break the Internet nor security. I’ve read numerous articles in which techies claim that DNS (Domain Name System) blocking — which forces ISPs to not allow access to sites determined to be trafficking in stolen entertainment — will undermine security and/or “break” the Internet. Like many of you, I am not versed enough on technical issues to explain how DNS blocking programs work or what may be the right method to ensure Internet security.Uh, yeah. I don't get this crazy tech stuff, but I'm sure what all those "experts" say is untrue. Sheesh. He goes on to say that because he can't play online poker any more, and because some ISPs block child porn or malware, clearly blocking wouldn't break the internet. Perhaps he should try actually understanding the details next time. The big issue is DNSSEC, not just DNS, and even Comcast (one of the major supporters of the bill) has admitted that DNS redirects are incompatible with DNSSEC. Furthermore, the fact that he can't play internet poker any more isn't because of DNS blocking. It's because of a (questionable) US law that cut off money transfers to those companies -- an approach that many of the folks against SOPA/PIPA supported in the OPEN Act which allowed for exactly the system that made it harder (but not impossible) for poker sites to function in the US. Look, it's okay to not understand complicated tech, but to use an example that has nothing to do with the tech, and actually supports what folks on the other side of the debate are saying? That just makes you look silly...
Moving on, we have the new poster boy for the pro-SOPA movement, David Newhoff, who compared the arguments against SOPA/PIPA to the "death panels" used in the healthcare debate -- claiming that the arguments of internet users worldwide were no more truthful than the claims of death panels from the healthcare proposal. That's funny. It's also wrong. Lots of people opposed to SOPA/PIPA laid out detailed, factual arguments for why these bills were dangerous. And we have plenty of very real evidence of how these laws will be abused (and how existing law is already abused).
But what's really funny is that if anyone is guilty of "death paneling," it has been the pro-SOPA/PIPA forces -- insisting that their industry is being decimated, when it's actually growing. They're the ones calling things "piracy" and "theft" when we're talking about infringement. They're the ones talking about starving artists, when more artists are making money from their content creations than ever before. They're the ones talking about less art will be created when we're living in a time of massive abundance of artistic creations. Yes, there are exaggerations in this debate, but I'd put up the anti-SOPA/PIPA side against the pro-side anytime, and it's entirely clear that the anti-side has the facts on their side much more than the SOPA/PIPA supporters do.
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who cares about people who make art for money. Fund movies because they are good and you support their message not because you hope you can gain a profit. I real could give fuck all about people who look at the arts as a money machine. Make art not cash cows.
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Quite possibly the biggest lie around. I know you are trying to push this as your new talking points for presentations, but let's try to be honest.
Fewer movie tickets sold... fewer than any point in a decade.
Less recorded music sold than any time in decades.
Live concert sales up, but ticket sales flat or down, as the major artists just keep jacking ticket prices, making it look like there is more money to go around, when it's getting caught by fewer and fewer people all the time.
Yup, everything is so much more profitable. Right.
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Words have meaning, they sway, they influence people, and calling it anything but what it is changes the argument. It is infringement pure and simple.
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I'll take this one...
Um... because entertainment is trivial and unimportant?
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Wha?
I know he's a writer for NY magazine, and presumably lives in New York, so this may have distorted his perceptions -- but for most of the nation, people who make high-five-figure to low-six-figure sums are definitely not middle class. They're rich. On the poor end of rich, sure, but rich nonetheless.
The median US household income for the period from 2006-2010 was $51,914. He's talking about people making twice that.
I think Gavin's a bit out of touch.
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Less physical recorded music sales but more live music and streaming music and itunes sales
Business models are changing, piracy isn't overly hurting anyone.
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Confused about one article using the word "blocking", and the comment here using the word "redirect". I thought these were separate and distinct. Any insight into the difference?
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Hmm...just movies alone, I counted no less than forty-seven movies that are on my hard drive, downloaded from a "pirate site"...that I then later on went to purchase the DVD/Blu-ray.
Other times, the reverse happened: I bought the DVD/Blu-ray first, then downloaded. Ya know, things like Smallville, Stargate, Lord of the Rings.
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Define recorded music please, vinyl disks? CDs? MP3s all of the above?
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Lets see why shall we, would you go out to a place that will search your bag? put people using nighvision goggles to spy on the audience? keep rising the price of the tickets every year and offer nothing new or cool in return?
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Yep, vynil also sold less than in any time in decades what is your point?
Old tech goes down, the thing selling if you didn't heard was digital and that a lot of labels are not making most of their profits from it and not CD's.
Further artists keep getting more money how? according to you they are not selling anything, how they get more money every year?
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"Less recorded music sold" - Citation please. Coulda sworn there was little thing called iTunes, you might not have heard of it.
"Live concert sales up, but ticket sales down" And how is this a problem of the online world? Live concerts are well...live, and being there cannot be replicated by watching it in person. Sure I can get a DVD recording of a concert/comedy show/etc, I can get an MP3 of a band's music, but nothing digital can compare to a live performance. They're two completely different markets. If your ticket sales are down, you do something to get more people into your show. Censoring the internet through SOPA does absolutely NOTHING to do that!
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the trouble is, that the pro SOPA etc people are the ones that get their opinions printed. more anti-SOPA articles are needed that debunk the need for SOPA, explaining why. as these articles seem to be few and far between, could it be the complete bias of the various news media, or just the fear of someone losing their job if they did put forward the truth? Fox news springs to mind, what with Murdoch being in charge and having the attitude that he has.
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The industry is growing. Its just not growing for big content. Not only is the old guard fighting on their own turf but many others. You have competition from all the lesser know musicians, video games, blogging, texting, email, web surfing and a change in attitude in the people that buy the products of big content.
All in all, like any non-competitive business, you guys are doomed. Over the next several years you are going to see your profits drop. None of it due to infringement.
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Re: I'll take this one...
Um... because big content is trivial and unimportant?
FTFY
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Duff McKagan, the founding bassist for Guns N' Roses.
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How much video is uploaded to YouTube every second? Yeah, I'm sure that has no effect on the wider cultural ecosystem. Nope. Must be piracy.
Also, how many people find it easier to rent from Redbox and watch it on their large screen televisions? While eating anything they want, while drinking anything they want? Being able to pause it in the comfort of their own homes? Nope. Gotta be piracy.
I could literally go on all day long but you don't care. Because piracy.
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Re: Duff McKagan, the founding bassist for Guns N' Roses.
In June 1985, McKagan replaced bassist Ole Beich in Guns N' Roses.
GnR in their current touring form are excellent, over 3 hour sets with some very talented musicians. And Axl sounds fine and only came on 30 minutes late.
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Less recorded music sold than any time in decades.
1) At the end of the day, the industry really isn't concerned with attendance, they are concerned with how much money is in their bank account.
2) Incomes in general has largely stagnated in the past few decades (for those who even have jobs) for a great many people, while cost have continued to rise.
3) Many people have a lot more options for how to spend their entertainment dollar than they did even a decade ago, and a lot of them are intentionally choosing to not spend it on the major studios or labels (I disagree that less recorded music is being bought - while less RIAA/major label music is being bought, I think a lot of people are puposefully buying directly from smaller independent artists/labels).
4)Things may be tough(er) in the US (and the argument can be made this is directly in part due to Big Contents failures to adapt and simply try to legislate their business), yet you look at a country like Russia (which is constantly held up as a prime example of piracy run amuck) and it seems every week when I check Box Office Mojo it seems Russia is setting box office records left, right, and center.
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Blocking was basically erasing the DNS record and when you requested the IP address for piratesite.com, the DNS servers would just sit on it and not respond. Of course, there's no way to educate users with a message in this case, and many of them will think their ISP is having network issues.
Redirecting would return a false IP address pointing to some government-owned web page that said "BAD PIRATE!!!1".
Both of which are also vectors of malware attack called (respectively) DOS and DNS poisoning, which DNSSEC would route around, hence the techno-hoopla about these bills.
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Some tired old arguments
There are plenty of ways for people to avoid paying the price you want to charge them. If you are worried about the bottom line, you need to fixate less on the "moochers" and instead try to figure out how to make a DVD or movie ticket seem worthwhile.
If they aren't pirating it, then they're renting it from Netflix or waiting for it to reach cable/broadcast.
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Re: Reel Debate
I, for one, wouldn't be amused by this for more than ~2 minutes.
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From a business standpoint this is exactly the correct perspective. The great disconnect occurs when people interject the moral outrage of the concept of piracy. As a business person the producer should be worried about making money. Most of the pirated copies would not represent lost sales and cost the producer nothing. They are irrelevant except to the extent that they represent lost sales. And most of those lost sales are probably cases where things like windowing and regional restrictions created an incentive for the piracy. The moral outrage of piracy has no place in business decisions, but it ranks very high in the OpEd pieces we see floating around.
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I understand you are one of the handful that Big Content has made highly successful to dangle like a carrot in front of others (while simultaneously doing everything in their power to cut off any other distribution channels other than those they control), but many of the content creators they have shafted, and most of the customers they treat like dirt or serfs tend to disagree with you.
It is not our fault you are currently shackled to a major label, and those labels are continuing to be hit hard in retribution for treating their customers poorly (if not like outright criminals). But I can assure you that I, nor a rather large percentage of the people I know, will pay you a penny as long as you are part of that label, regardless of how many laws, treaties, or "executive agreements" the pay Congress to pass.
Sincerely, someone who once purchased every Guns & Roses album (several of them on both cassettes and CD).
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Senator Orrin Hatch
http://sopatrack.com/congressperson/H000338-sen-orrin-hatch
He's said we should blow up computers remotely to help people understand the seriousness of copyright infringement, and that too- without due process.
http://www.dethronehatch.com/orrin-hatch-is-no-friend-of-the-internet/
This is what we're up against
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@fogbugzd: Excellent point r/e the economic characteristics of digital products. IFPI is still struggling with this concept.
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Re: Wha?
If six figures is "middle class," then it should really have the modifier "upper" attached to the front.
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Re: Re: Duff McKagan, the founding bassist for Guns N' Roses.
http://www.stubhub.com/guns-n-roses-tickets/
WOW!!!! You wasted that much to see them? I have a lovely bridge... it is for sale and I think you would be interested.
It needs a little paint, but that's all:
http://www.maplecherry.com/images/006boatbridge.jpg
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2) The recorded music industry is down 50% in a decade. I don't call that stagnation.
3) See point 1, you cannot have your cake and eat it too as they say. If movies need to be price competitive with other options, they cannot continue to just raise prices. That creates diminishing returns over time.
4) Box offices in many emerging markets are setting records, mostly because the product wasn't legally available in the past at all. $2 is a 100% increase over $1, but it still pales in comparison to sales in the main markets.
The point is Mike is working on a collection of cherry picked facts, and trying to make it look like something is going on that just isn't true.
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It's not without it's biases (but then who isn't) but I find it kind of sad that a program produced by Russian television seems to be a lot more balanced than most of the news shows I see on conventional TV.
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At least keep your arguments about SOPA/PIPA in the realm of reality. DNSSEC is not reality. It's a pipedream.
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Experts?
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Even Rockstars Have To Worry About the Voice of the Internet
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/reverb/2012/01/lets_try_this_again.php
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Fuck You Hollywood !!!!
Soon someone will release the real dirt to the Public on the way you "cook your books" when you do Accounting on your films.That is where your money disappears.
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Re: Re: Re: Duff McKagan, the founding bassist for Guns N' Roses.
And you're right, they dont have 25 years worth of material to choose from so they have to play everything off Chinese Democracy.
Ferrer, Fortus, Ashba, Thal, and Reed is a destructive lineup without regard to the band they are playing with at the moment. But please continue, you are not ignorant on this matter in the least.
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This is one of the most significant paradigm shifts and one that explains so much - including why the entertainment industry would want to use something like SOPA to shut down a user-generated internet culture.
In the 90's, I would go to Blockbuster and rent three movies a week minimum, sometimes six or seven. I'd also go to a movie theater at least once a week.
Now I have the internet (and I'm not talking about piracy). I have lolcat videos and YouTube and my own multimedia projects and retro movie websites and dailyshow.com and Hulu, a video games, and web comics, etc., etc.
Sure, I'll go see a movie in the theater, but its got to be a pub theater that only charges me $6 for a ticket and $4 a good beer. I'm not spending $20 on a decent movie that they've ruined and made overly expensive with 3D, in addition to having to take out a small loan for 32 oz small drink and a crate of popcorn.
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Who said movies deserve to remain competitive? I have a high-quality screen and good speakers in my home, and the technology to watch whatever I want. Why should I pay extra and drive to another building so I can suffer through other people talking?
In other words, the movie theater industry may be dying - but so what? The video creation industry is booming.
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It is much better to have the fall back of the movie tanked because of piracy, not because my vision of Rambo done with finger puppets was a really stupid idea.
If you stopped blaming everyone but yourself, and accept that you might have something to do with piracy happening you can see the truth. The way to stop piracy is to stop shitting on your customers.
I'm TAC
and today I'm a potty mouth sorry.
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Duff should be taken out for danish a-la "Morey" from Goodfellas. "You sit in the front seat Duff"
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Having said that, current relevant music artist, Wale, who is signed Rick Ross's impring Maybach Music Group which is under the UMG Umbrella and actually selling records in 2011-12 would like to keep giving music away for free.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMNIuZDB3w0
It works very well for him.
http://www.vibe.com/posts/wale-crashes-hulkshare-eleven-one-eleven-mixtape-release/
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Doh
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Seems to me that there is a lot of similarity to "death panels"
Like the various prosecutorial powers under SOPA, that ability certainly could be misused.
The only distinction is how likely you think that the government is to abuse the corresponding powers. Personally, I think that it's unlikely that the government will actually restrain health care spending at all (the elderly vote a lot), whereas the government has certainly shown that it will crack down on various suspected piracy sites, even if it harms innocent users.
But the comparison is not necessarily all bad. Some people trust the government in both cases, some distrust in both cases, and some trust in one but not the other. (And many don't care about the issue that concerns them less right now, but care about their own.)
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2) I have seen where mike gets his numbers, how about your sources. Any idiot knows that 80% of unsourced statistics are made up 90% of a tenth of the time.
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Response to: Anonymous Coward on Jan 31st, 2012 @ 2:12pm
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it's easier to pay bills (and turn profits) when the numbers are smaller. maybe hollywood could stop spending so much on production and create a product that works with the current itunes/netflix/amazon revenue model?
naw. better push for a reduction in civil liberties. that makes *way* more sense.
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Which leads to...
More movie revenue... more than any point in history.
Maybe if it wasn't so expensive, they would sell more tickets? But that might lower their revenue, because they've already figured out the amount to charge to maximize revenue.
Looks like the movie studios just know more about economics than you.
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Why does this 'grassroots' effort have astroturfing written all over it?
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I think we would end up in a game of telephone where each step back says something a little different, as each of them gets a cut of the actual profits.
I would have much more respect for someone posting one of these Op-Eds if they actually showed their math on the page.
Prove me wrong with facts not your crying about something everyone else can see is caused not by pirates but the den of thieves that represents you.
I'm willing to eat crow if you can prove me wrong, are your beliefs that strong?
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>Might be implying he doesn't have a DVD or a Blu Ray and an LED TV. Buying a copy so you can watch it over and over, whenever you want, is way more economic than watching it on the Big Screen.
Less recorded music sold than any time in decades.
>Might be implying he still use CD players for music. He doesn't have a phone or any device that plays mp3 or mp4.
Live concert sales up, but ticket sales flat or down
>Serious Citation Needed.
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And thankfully he has no effect on copyright law and what will be done to protect it; nobody actually takes him seriously. It's piracy cheerleading, nothing more.
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Re: using the word
Nix the middle man and put your art out for the world to see.
We have developed the greatest information sharing system every devised by humanity. You, or anyone else with a modicum of talent can get their message out and really say something to the entire world.
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Re: using the word 'sold ' repeatedly. doesn'
Nix the middle man and put your art out for the world to see.
We have developed the greatest information sharing system every devised by humanity. You, or anyone else with a modicum of talent can get their message out and really say something to the entire world.
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everyone knows, but they're immune to reality.
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Re: Even Rockstars Have To Worry About the Voice of the Internet
It's like the guy reads TechDirt or something, but he doesn't mention "reason to buy" and does only hint at connecting with fans.
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This are the kind of idiots that the Pro-SOPA camp has.
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>middle class
>six figures/year
!@#$%^&
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Like it or not the capitalist system is predicated on making a profit and there's nothing wrong with making a profit. However, as this site exemplifies, there are plenty of ways to make a profit from creating art without violating the private property rights of Internet owners through things like SOPA or excessively powerful government-granted monopolies.
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Funny you say that after what happened to SOPA/PIPA. I think he has a lot of power now.
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Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Jan 31st, 2012 @ 2:12pm
Your example is flawed. You're making apples into oranges so your bad analogy will work.
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"Gavin Polone... I have funded two films with my own money and am considering doing a third... Nobody is going to pay to see a movie in a theater, rent a DVD, or legitimately download or stream a movie once they already have it from a free pirate site."
Erm, sorry but utter bullshit on both counts. Assuming it's the same guys, Polone is the guy who produced Zombieland. $75 million domestic gross on $25 million budget - not bad at all.
Now, either he's saying that the films he's made off his own money were failures (assuming one of them wasn't Zombieland), or that he's sulking about the idea that they "could" have made more if not for piracy.
If they were failures and Zombieland was not, maybe he should investigate why that was - was it quality, lack of a marketing hook, bad release dates, or just bad movies? Who knows, he doesn't name the titles. But, if he wants to pretend that Zombieland wasn't pirated and that's what got him close to 3 times the production budget back on his gross, I have a bridge to sell him.
The latter part is the usual crap that comes from someone who hasn't been a real customer of the industry for a long time, if ever. Almost everbody who has obtained something for free - be it via a library, borrowing a DVD or CD from a friend, or actually participating in piracy has gone on to buy something they previously obtained for free. He's living in a black-and-white fantasy world, like most SOPA supporters
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Part of the problem with this conversation is that producers who think of nothing but the money often try to have it both ways. They're only interested in producing what they consider "commercial" - i.e. no chances taken artistically, often aping what's been successful recently - and end up with a mediocre product. If that fails, they will try to blame everything except the idea that their end product wasn't something that anyone was interested in watching... Whereas, if a higher quality film fails, they will try to blame the film itself, rather than failures in marketing, distribution, etc.
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...and here we see why the ACs fail at logic. Yes, if you take into account a single data point, this looks like a problem.
However, once you take into account that there's more choice *and* the grosses for those movie tickets was still the 3rd highest in history, there's not so much of a problem.
Add to that that there's more money going into services that didn't even exist a decade ago (e.g. HD streaming), then DVD/Blu, VOD, digital purchases and rentals through iTunes, etc., and hey presto things are looking up.
Try to consider all the data points and facts. I know if makes it more difficult to whine about scapegoats and talking points, but reality isn't like that.
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Re: I'll take this one...
a) unlike "other businesses", nobody is harmed in any way by piracy.
b) the "crime" in question is usually a civil rather than criminal offence.
c) the proposals made thus far have an astounding level of collateral damage and removal of rights from innocent people.
d) there's a hundred avenues these businesses could explore to make piracy irrelevant without needing government protection, if they so chose.
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Re: Re: Re:
We wouldn't either. We call it 'pulling numbers out of your ass'.
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Re: Re:
Oooooo. That's a severe breakage of the DNS. I knew SOPA/PIPA/COICA were evil, but I didn't realize it was that bad.
In the best case, this would mean that each resolver and nameserver would need to be patched (but only in the USA: the rest of the world could still use the software that works properly). The NS data, wherever it is (authoritative or cached), would need a new field to distinguish between 'blocked' and 'really does not exist'; and each nameserver or resolver would need to look at that information to know whether to return the current 'name error' or to just ignore the query.
Even worse would be patched software that never returned the 'name error' state: then, every query would have to request recursion, since intermediate nameservers (neither root nor authoritative) couldn't let its requestor know that it needed to go up a notch.
And there I was, naively thinking that it was just DNSSEC that would be screwed up by SOPA/PIPA's DNS blocking. Or maybe it's just that this AC doesn't understand DNS.
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Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Jan 31st, 2012 @ 2:12pm
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Consider the lilies in the valley ....
There are huge numbers of "bloodsuckers" out there, though - going to college, or even trade school, is not an option; it is beneath the dignity of an "artiste" - and it involves actually providing something of TRUE value!
I don't admire Hedy Lamarr because she was a "great artist", I admire her because she invented the technology cell phones are based on. Without that, I would as soon forget her.
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Re: Re:
Me thinks the AC doth protest too much.
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Re: Re: Wha?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So yes the retardation was intended
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Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Jan 31st, 2012 @ 2:12pm
Wouldn't that be failure to point? He wasn't attempting to fail he was attempting, and succeeding, at making you look foolish.
So you failed to redeem yourself, and made yourself look stupider in the process. You succeeded at failing, congrats!
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Re:
>
> Less recorded music sold than any time in decades.
> ...
And I am sure you would have claimed the transportation industry was failing when buggy-whip sales dropped right?
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SOPA
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Thanks
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Re: SOPA
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Ultra Series
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