Hollywood Gets To Party With TPP Negotiators; Public Interest Groups Get Thrown Out Of Hotel

from the yeah,-that-doesn't-look-corrupt-at-all dept

Wed, Feb 1st 2012 9:01am — Mike Masnick

We've been talking about the ridiculous levels of secrecy around the TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership) agreement -- a trade agreement that is being designed to push through basically everything that Hollywood wants in international copyright law. Last week, we mentioned that various civil society groups were planning to hold an open meeting about TPP in the same hotel where the negotiations were being held (in Hollywood, of course).

However, it appears that once the USTR found out about this, it got the hotel to cancel the group's reservation at the hotel. According to Sean Flynn, the Associate Director of the Program on Information Justice and Intellectual Property (PIJIP) at American University:

The public interest briefing was booked last week and advertised to all delegations, including the host USTR. An hour after the invitation was sent, we received a cancellation of our venue by the hotel. The cancellation by by Sophie Jones, Event Sales Manager, Sofitel Los Angeles stated:
“I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but unfortunately we will not be able to move forward with your luncheon for Tuesday January 31st. It was brought to my attention that we have a confidential group in house and we will not be allowing any other groups in the meeting space that day. Again, my apologies for the late notice. Hopefully we can work together in the near future.”

Okay. I guess if no other groups are allowed in the meeting space that day it's understandable. Except... oops... someone in the group confirmed that the hotel was lying:

After receiving the cancellation, members of an advocacy organization called the hotel and were able to book a room for a claimed private event not related to the TPP. Apparently only TPP-related events were banned from the hotel at the request of an unidentified party. USTR is serving as the host of this meeting.

Well, at least MPAA execs were similarly blocked from access to the negotiators, too, right? Nope:

The film industry did not have similar problems – they hosted a multi-hour tour of 20th Century Fox Studies last night, led by a representative of the studio’s government relations office.

Yeah. This is what corruption looks, smells and tastes like. And the MPAA still doesn't get it. They still think that backroom deals like this are fine and that the public won't notice or care. That's quite a bet to make, and one they may regret.

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Filed Under: acta, hollywood, secrecy, sopa, tpp, trade negotiations
Companies: mpaa

147 Comments

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Watchit (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:06am

Despicable
All I can say is despicable... and a few choice four letter words...
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fogbugzd (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:06am

Lay down your bets! Will the MPAA/USTR blame this on Google or whiners on 4Chan?
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:08am

I'll put my money on Google
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:11am

How isn't this going to hurt Obama?
Seriously, if we want this to end, the guy at the top has to be made to suffer.

I don't think such an abstract issue can really stick, but maybe if we use plenty of J-B Weld...
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Nick, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:12am

Well I hope they are planning on suing the hotel. I would think offering public facilities like that for hire, they are not allowed to discriminate.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:18am

Re: All Bets!
Very well, I'll bet 4chan.
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Watchit (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:18am

Re:
Nah, if it's there business they can deny whoever they want, whether doing so will have any consequences is a completely different matter. If they raise enough stink about it, the hotel will probably either back down or risk a bad reputation which is bad for business.
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Watchit (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:19am

Re: Re:
their* business
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Watchit (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:20am

Re: Re: All Bets!
I doubt they even know what 4chan is. My money is on Google!
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:22am

If so many people want these laws, as IP extremists like to claim, then why are they being negotiated in secret?
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:24am

What Hotel was it so that it can be properly boycotted ?
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:26am

Re:
Why in secret? Yeah that's kind of the whole point in making a stink about this going on and trying to make a scene of the hotel. The subject matter of the bill is irrelevant, this method of lawmaking is not acceptable.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:27am

Re: Re:
The Hotel industry is equally plagued with anti-competitive laws and government actions.
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fogbugzd (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:28am

Re: Re: Re: All Bets!
>>I doubt they even know what 4chan is.

Yeah, they do. My "whiners at 4chan" is a direct quote from one of the SOPA supporters. It was in a news article I have read within the last 24 hours, but I don't remember exactly where. Normally I would have said "whiners at Reddit" but I remembered the quote.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:31am

Re: How isn't this going to hurt Obama?
You do know that, not only does Obama not control every single government employee, but it's also very difficult to dictate another government entity's policies. Sure, it can be done, but there's a series of bureaucratic procedures and general backs-you-don't-stab, lines-you-don't-cross methods.

Then again, this is a new age of government where "to hell with policy" is the new response to each other. I dunno, maybe Obama needs to be underhanded and downright Republican-style evil to prevent this sort of crap from continuing.
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Loki, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:37am

Re: Despicable
It is beyond despicable. It is unequivocably unacceptable. I patently refuse to accept or abide by any legislation or agreements that I, or some approved representative, was part of the process of crafting.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

I intend to fulfill that duty and fight these efforts to the best of my ability.
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Gwiz (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:37am

Re:
What Hotel was it so that it can be properly boycotted ?

[loud Liam Neeson voice]: RELEASE THE INTERNETS!!!
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Loki, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:41am

Re: Re: Re: All Bets!
I'd be surprised if most of them have even heard of 4chan, much less have the slightest clue what it is.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:42am

It just shows how deep the money involved in the Legacy industries can corrupt, if even hotels with no stake in the issue can be corrupted.

How much money was the hotel paid to block other meetings? What stock in the legacy entertainment industries do people in the upper management of the hotel have? They're obviously getting paid off here.
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TamTroll, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:42am

"Hollywood Gets To Party With TPP Negotiators; Public Interest Groups Get Thrown Out Of Hotel"

hey you bunch of vengeful little whiny children you should let the adults have their party and stop whining so much you are just a bunch of little whiny children mad about the megaupload takedown and you want to get back at dodd for practically bribing politicians with campaign contributions in exchange for laws yes you want to get back at him because you are vengeful and think that bad behavior deserves to be punished, you know that's all this is.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:45am

Re: Re: Re: Re: All Bets!
In the comments on the previous article, perhaps?
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I-Blz, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:47am

Re:
My god, no troll could be this bad...or at least no real troll...you wouldn't perhaps be from Homestuck, would you? lol
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John Fenderson (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:48am

Re: Re: How isn't this going to hurt Obama?
Come on, get with the times. Haven't you heard? Every single awful thing the government does is directly because of Obama. Every good thing is in spite of him. Talking about the separation of powers just confuses people!

I was stuck in a two hour traffic jam today, proving that Obama's a bastard.

/sarc
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:48am

Re: Re: How isn't this going to hurt Obama?
then in that case, the hotel should be made to suffer, i.e user reviews, lack of business etc etc, i dont condone it, and hate the fact that employees will suffer for it, but that seems to be the only way that the big fat cats of the hotel will listen.
and in doing so, other companies might start to get weary, the next time a big fat powerhouse comes a calling,

food for thought

there needs to be an awareness, that its not only the rich and powerfull that you need to cater for
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John Fenderson (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:49am

Re:
Discrimination is perfectly legal unless it's based on the short list of specific things (race, religion, etc.)
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:50am

Re: Re: Re: Re: All Bets!
Of course they do!

It's something on "the internets" which they can blame things on.
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Loki, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:51am

Re: Re:
Agreed. The necessity to veil negotiations under such levels of secrecy mean both that they have already made up their minds and are not open to outside counterarguments but more importantly that they already know their position cannot hold up under serious scrutiny.
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:55am

Re:
Sofitel.
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Loki, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:55am

Re: Re:
Funny, but inaccurate.

The Kracken would be more akin to the MPAA/RIAA. What we need is the Medusa's head.
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Gwiz (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:56am

Re: Re:
I would say not real. The name is a pretty good indication since TAM usually means The Anti-Mike.
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David Evans (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:56am

Re: Despicable
We need to start calling it the TraPP Agreement.
Hard to hype TPP. Sounds like an office memo.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:56am

Re: Re: Re: How isn't this going to hurt Obama?
Oh, silly me, I forgot my place. Thank you for correcting me, comrade.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:58am

So to add to the list

US Government
European Governments
Hotel company/ies
Legacy Media Company/ies
...........
...........
...........
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JayTee (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:00am

Re:
cross-article-troll-win =]
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:03am

"its just business"

ohhhhhh, sorry, its just business, my bad

Perfactly acceptable folks, nothing to see here folks, its just business as usall folks
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:06am

Re: Re:
Wanna bet.
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BentFranklin (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:08am

Re: Re: How isn't this going to hurt Obama?
Obama appointed Ron Kirk. One assumes it was because he was deemed fit to do a certain job. Kirk is doing that job he was hired to do. This goes back to Obama.
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Rapnel (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:09am

Contempt
I'm really starting to not like these people very much.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:10am

Re: Re: Re:
So if we cut off moot's head and show it to the MPAA/RIAA then they will turn to stone? That's kind of awesome.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:11am

Three years ago a notice was published in the Federal Register re the TPP and requesting comments, pro and con, from EVERY member of the public. It is hard to reconcile the continuing mantra "We have no opportunity for input" when at the very start a request for input was published.

Now, it seems that so many are focused on "secrecy" associated with its negotiation. This is not at all unusual while substantive discussions are taking place. Lest this be misunderstood, there is the saying "Too many cooks spoil the broth". I believe it applies here. Once negotiations are substantially complete, a draft will certainly be published for public comment before the agreement is signed.

I do agree that what appears to be preferred access is a legitimate complaint. What I have to ask, though, is if there is anything preventing other groups from likewise meeting with the TPP negotiatiors? Frankly, I do not know the answer. I hope the answer is yes. I understand that a public presentation intended to solicit public input is to be held at the Australia Round of negotiations in March. Hopefully, those who feel left out of the process will attend and present their views and concerns.

A final point. It is not reported if this is an executive agreement, or one authorized under authority conferred by Congress. I understand that Congress has held hearings concerning the negotiations, which suggests to me that this is not an executive agreement. Importantly, congressional participation does not mean that the resulting document will be a treaty, and courts have upheld agreements in which Congress participated under conditions other than its treaty powers.
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Suja (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:11am

Re:
hey you bunch of vengeful little whiny children

hey! maybe someday you'll grow up and stop whining
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:12am

Re:
"hey you bunch of vengeful little whiny cronies you should let the public have their party and stop whining so much you are just a bunch of little whiny children mad about the lack of internet control and you want to get back at the public for daring to speak up with a medium you cant control yes you want to get back at your customers because you are vengeful and think that civil liberties deserves to be punished, you know that's all this is."
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Suja (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:18am

Re: Re:
heh heh, should've left "children" instead of cronies cause it's still 100% accurate
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Another AC, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:19am

Re:
I highly suggest you wake up and take a look at what's going on around you... maybe take off those rose-colored glasses while you're at it.
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Suja (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:20am

Re: Re: Re:
nvm i see it now, my bad
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:20am

Re: Re:
Please be advised, my post was sarcasm.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:25am

Re: Re: How isn't this going to hurt Obama?
wtf?
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:28am

Re: Re:
Substantive details, please. Your is merely a top-level comment without supporting data.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:29am

Re: Contempt
Well, that's the idea behind these types of "stories". Mike Masnick wants you to pirate, and hopes that by encouraging resentment of the content and media companies that you'll feel justified in pirating from them.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:32am

Re: Re:
Sofitel Los Angeles (it is mentioned in the article):

http://www.sofitel.com/gb/hotel-0937-sofitel-los-angeles/index.shtml
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Skeptical Cynic (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:34am

Re: Re: Despicable
Toilet Paper Proposal. Because I would like to wipe my disgust off with it and flush it.
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gorehound (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:36am

Re: Despicable
How about "putting two middle fingers in the air" F*CK You MAFIAA !!!
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jjmsan (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:39am

Re: Re: Contempt
I thought pirating was because everyone wanted things free? Now you're saying it is some sort of political protest because people are angry? Isn't that protected by the first amendment?
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Tim K (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:39am

Re:
It obviously has to be google, because the whiners of 4chan that are the only other real opposition wouldn't be able to book a hotel because they are all a bunch of little kids
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:45am

They really don't get the internet do they? If they did they would know their days of hiding this shit from the public are over.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:47am

Re: Re: Contempt
Mike would'nt have a leg to stand on, if there were'nt people who have similar thoughts to these issues, its certain if not all, governments who have gotten used to telling its flock of sheep, to think what they want them to think.
at least here i can read comments with the same thoughts that go through my head, and not the thoughts that im suppose to be thinking
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:47am

Re: Re: Re: Contempt
I thought pirating was because everyone wanted things free?

That is why people pirate. But often people will have a guilty conscience about ripping off musicians and will start to pay. That isn't what Mike Masnick and the rest of the tech industry want. They want you to pirate. So he comes up with stories that he hopes will discourage people from having a guilty conscience, and actually instead make people think they're justified in pirating.
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btrussell (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:48am

Re: Re: Contempt
I take it you are the only one here who can think for themselves?

The rest of just do as told?
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:49am

Re:
So because they "asked for opinion" 3 years ago they then get to spend 3 years secretly negotiating the deal with one very interested commercial party? Sounds fair. Oh no the public can give input, in Australia...

MISTER PROSSER:
The plans were on display.

ARTHUR DENT:
Ah! And how many members of the public are in the habit of casually dropping around the local planning office of an evening?

MISTER PROSSER:
Er - ah!

ARTHUR DENT:
It�s not exactly a noted social venue is it? And even if you had popped in on the off chance that some raving bureaucrat wanted to knock your house down, the plans weren�t immediately obvious to the eye were they?

MISTER PROSSER:
That depends where you were looking.

ARTHUR DENT:
I eventually had to go down to the cellar!

MISTER PROSSER:
That�s the display department.

ARTHUR DENT:
With a torch!

MISTER PROSSER:
The lights, had� probably gone.

ARTHUR DENT:
So had the stairs!

MISTER PROSSER:
Well you found the notice didn�t you?

ARTHUR DENT:
Yes. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying �Beware of the Leopard�. Ever thought of going into advertising?
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:50am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Contempt
When was the last time you checked in with reality?
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:52am

Re:
we must censor the internet, because of terrorists, think of the babies, and your jobs, how will we make obscene's amount of profit, if we cant control what you can or cant see

thankyou

vote obama
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:53am

opps wrong thread
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Berenerd (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:53am

If it looks like a duck...quacks like a duck...its most likely a pinto...

What?
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Ninja (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:54am

Re: Re: Re: All Bets!
Oh no, they don't want a legion of weirdos berserking at them. 4chan is safe. Specially /b/ =D

My bet is 4shared, Dropbox. But slowly they'll try to shutdown the entire internet so in the end all bets will be the winners ;)
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A Monkey with Atitude, 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:55am

Re: Re: How isn't this going to hurt Obama?
Last Time I checked the USTR works for the Executive Branch, under the State Department, and as the USTR is a normally very visible, to the public and other nations, their activities are at least, part of a weekly briefing to the President (some times daily).... at least that was the report from his CHIEF OF STAFF... just like Eric Holder i guess... when people like what they do they take credit, but if its bad is "Republican-style evil" and their not responsible...

Nice double standard ya have there, can the rest of us try it on? or is it just for the blind sheeple such as your self?
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rubberpants, 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:02am

Re: Re: Contempt
Mike Masnick wants you to pirate

You make a well-substantiated, salient, and thought-provoking point AC. I think I can speak for many here in that you've changed how I think about this whole debate with your persuasive commentary. Thank you for your contribution.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:08am

Re: Re: Re: Contempt
yes, my friend, thats what im saying, im the only one who can think for myself

what im saying is there are a few out their who will support their goverments over its people, regardless of the subject, whether right or wrong, some will justify any subject because they beleive blindly in their government or in some cases have been payed to believe in their government, and im not so blind to realise im doing the exact same thing trying to justify this thing right now, question is who are we justifying for

your government, or your people, and no, i no longer consider them one and the same

im against it, becuase there is a cancer in this world, and the only ones who can afford the cure are the rich and powerfull
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Contempt
And here I thought my conspiracy theories were out in left field...
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btr1701 (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:09am

Re:
> I would think offering public facilities
> like that for hire, they are not allowed
> to discriminate.

They can discriminate however they like, so long as it's not on the basis of a federally protected class.

Kicking out the National Organization of Women because of their views on women's rights: illegal.

Kicking out the Dallas Cowboys Fan Club because the hotel's owner is a Steelers fan: completely legal.

It may be bad for business, but beyond possible breach of contract issues, it's nothing that gives rise to a legal cause of action.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:12am

So I have to wonder...we're hitting a boiling point...

When do the shootings start?

/grabs popcorn.
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btr1701 (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:13am

Re: Re: Contempt
> Mike Masnick wants you to pirate, and hopes
> that by encouraging resentment of the content
> and media companies that you'll feel justified
> in pirating from them.

So you're basically condoning the fact that the industry is negotiating laws that affect everyone in secret, excluding the public from the those negotiations, and when the public tries to hold its own meeting, bribes the hotel into shutting it down?

This is admirable and acceptable behavior but piracy is wrong?

That about sum up your position on the subject?
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:16am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Contempt
But the cancer is made up of the rich and powerful that you support. Why would they try to cure themselves?
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:21am

Re:
i dont think we've reached the boiling point yet, but its certainly not cooling down
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btr1701 (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:21am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Contempt
> So he comes up with stories that he hopes
> will discourage people from having a guilty
> conscience, and actually instead make people
> think they're justified in pirating.

Masnick is not inventing these stories. This shit is actually happening. If the behavior of the entertainment industry make people feel less guilty about pirating, then maybe the industry shouldn't be such complete asshats in the first place.

You're essentially saying that whenever the entertainment industry is caught doing something anti-democratic and corrupt, it's the fault of the people who point it out and talk about it, rather than those who are actually behaving badly in the first place.

What a perfectly Orwellian argument you've come up with. Kudos!

I wonder, are you the same AC who claimed a few months back that it was inappropriate for Masnick to encourage people to call/write their elected representatives and express their opinion on SOPA/PIPA; that it was essentially blackmail for constituents to tell their member of Congress how they feel about the issue?

'Cause it would be perfectly fascistly consistent of you if you are.
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NullOp, 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:23am

Hotel
Find which hotel it was and boycott. Spread it all over Twitter, FB, etc, etc. Book rooms and cancel. Call and ask endless questions. Call and hang up. Call and ask them to mail brochures to you. Call and ask to speak to someone, anyone. You and your friends all call at once. Have fun!
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btr1701 (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:25am

Re:
> Lest this be misunderstood, there is the
> saying "Too many cooks spoil the broth".
> I believe it applies here

Funny how whenever there are too many cooks, it's always the public cooks that get kicked out. It's never the industry cooks.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:32am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Contempt
in my analogy, corruption was the cancer, and those who are'nt affected by corruption have the cure, ie big fucking rich and powerfull fucking twats..........is that a bit more clear on who im against here
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:39am

Re: Hotel
If that were to happen, make sure that the reasons are well known and widespread, not just, lets boycot, because....... otherwise we gain nothing
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The eejit (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:40am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
It's not moot's head: it's Leeroy Jenkins' we need!
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The eejit (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:45am

Re:
I suppose y'all can't fuck wit da PO-lice, too.
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Dave, 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:54am

Step Right Up!
"Torches and pitchforks! Get 'yer torches and pitchforks here!" :�
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The eejit (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Contempt
And here I thought the Truthers were crazy...
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The eejit (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:01pm

Re: Re:
You misspelled kooks.
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The eejit (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:02pm

Re: Re: Hotel
"Boycott X hotel because they are willing to commit high treason and shit on the US Constitution for the sake of a few dollars more."
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Adam V, 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:03pm

Where's the White House petition to prevent Trade Representatives from attending secret meetings where corporate attendees are allowed but groups like the EFF or Public Knowledge were being specifically banned?

I would understand if the agreements were completely within countries, and no outside groups were allowed in (or even to advise)... but to allow the MPAA to take part while excluding others is wrong, and it would be a strong statement about the policies of this government to state that they'd no longer allow the office of the USTR to take part in such actions.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:12pm

Re: Step Right Up!
Lets start a business quickly, so we can make a lot of money, and then, you know, bribe politicians to shut down other companies who dare to startup a "torches and pitchforks" business

quick, lets do this
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:14pm

Re:
The MPAA is not a part of the USTR negotiation team, so it has no role in the negotiations. Obviously, it does try and bend the ear of the USTR, but then again so can everybody else.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:21pm

Re:
Three years ago a notice was published in the Federal Register re the TPP and requesting comments, pro and con, from EVERY member of the public. It is hard to reconcile the continuing mantra "We have no opportunity for input" when at the very start a request for input was published.

Seriously? A request from 3 years ago for comment in the Federal Register makes this an open process? You're joking, right?

Let's compare: has Hollywood been intimately involved in every facet of the negotiation? Yes. Has public interest groups? No. Oh look, you're full of it, again.

Now, it seems that so many are focused on "secrecy" associated with its negotiation. This is not at all unusual while substantive discussions are taking place.

As we've highlighted in the past, YES, it is unusual for these kinds of negotiations. Similar deals done via WIPO were MUCH more open. It's only when they got out of WIPO that USTR started keeping everything secret.

Lest this be misunderstood, there is the saying "Too many cooks spoil the broth". I believe it applies here.

Yeah, but when the only cooks you have are the ones who stand to benefit from anti-public, pro-industry laws... that soup is going to get mighty spicy.

Once negotiations are substantially complete, a draft will certainly be published for public comment before the agreement is signed.

Yeah, like ACTA: "hey, it's done, we won't make any changes, but comment away."

How do you not even crack up laughing at your own bullshit?
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Adam V, 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:28pm

Re: Re:
Here's what I'm seeing, unless I'm misunderstanding something:

The MPAA is being allowed into the room.

Other interested groups are not being allowed into the same hotel.
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Someantimalwareguy (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:32pm

Re: Re: Re: How isn't this going to hurt Obama?
Nice double standard ya have there, can the rest of us try it on? or is it just for the blind sheeple such as your self?
LOL - sheeple calling others sheeple - oh the horror...!!!
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Kevin H (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:47pm

Re: Re: Despicable
Bring in the Ice Giants!
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letherial (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:47pm

record industry finally met something that is bigger and stronger then them...the internet, they are scared like hell and like any tyrant dictator, they go down swinging.

head like a hole
black as your soul
id rather die, then give you control.
-NIN

its a fitting quote
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:49pm

Re: Re:
It is my understanding that whatever results from the negotiations will be presented to Congress for a vote.

Perhaps you may wish to consider starting a petition-a-thon urging Congess to vote it down. After all, all trade-related issues can be solved by the adoption of better business models.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:49pm

Re:
their next target.......the internet
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:50pm

It's a Hollywood hotel
" in that case, the hotel should be made to suffer, i.e user reviews, lack of business etc etc, i dont condone it, and hate the fact that employees will suffer for it, but that seems to be the only way that the big fat cats of the hotel will listen."

If this is a semi luxury hotel near the major studios in Los Angeles they probably get a significant chunk of their business from said studios, and it will be hard for normal people to effectively boycott or otherwise influence them. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try anyway.
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Kevin H (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 12:56pm

Re:
Isn't that what they said back in the 40s/50s/60s when the told black people they couldn't sit/ride/piss at certain establishments?
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 1:00pm

Re: Re:
BTW, I am not at all sure what you are talking about when you say that TPP negotiations are taking place in "Hollywood".

The 10th Round was held late last year in Kuala Lumpur, and the 11th Round is scheduled to be held next month in Australia.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 1:17pm

Re: Re: Contempt
Thanks to Mike, I am a pirate. I resisted the urge for years, paying $20 or more for DVDs of the latest Hollywood crap, but every TechDirt post weakened me.

Eventually I gave in and downloaded the first episode of "Work It" after watching it for free on TV. I felt bad for downloading it (but not as bad as I felt sitting through that dreck) so to ease my conscience, I went to that despicable Youtube and watched a few commercials before the videos started (but then quickly closed the windows before the actual videos started playing. I'm no freetard.)

Now I'm a pirate, and it's all Mike's fault. He is evil and should go to hell. I have failed you, Hollywood. Can you forgive me? How much will it cost? What is the best way to give you money? Netflix? Red Box? Cable TV? DVD? Bluray Deluxe Editions? The movie theatre? What's that you say? All of the above? I wish I had a $100 million dollars to give you so you could make more garbage to devour two hours of my life.

I'm depressed. I wish I could just pay to watch commercials all day.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 1:43pm

Hotel review sites
If you want to boycott this hotel, why not also use hotel review sites (which I'm not sure we've gotten the name of yet) post a low review on said hotel with the reason why. Unless they filter the comments you could bring the ranking of the hotel down, inform people of the boycott, and get the hotel's attention so they lose credibility and they and others never try this crap again.

Just a suggestion.
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Vukovar (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 1:44pm

Re: Re: Re:
Wow. Please do me the favor of never reproducing.....
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 2:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Wow" what? Mentioning that TPP is likely a FTA in which Congress votes whether or not it enters into force? Mentioning that there does not appear to be any TPP negotiations among the parties going on in the US? Suggesting that perhaps this site might want to get on a bandwagon to stir things up with yet more FUD, as it has done with all legislation associated with patent and copyright law? Something else?
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The eejit (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 2:35pm

Re: Re: Re:
So round 10.5 was held this weekend in Hollywood. Gotcha.
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The eejit (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 2:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
And yet, you never tell us who you are, and why you're so involved in the process...
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 3:02pm

Wow, this is almost outrageous as Creative America's web hosting company denying renewal of its contract. Shocking!!!
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dcee (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 3:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: All Bets!
Ok... I've been getting a bit nervous with dropbox... I use it for backing up documents, mp3 (aaaaaaaaah!), photos, etc. Should I be scared of it getting hit?
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 3:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The same can be said of you...

Merely FYI, I am an attorney (before that a commissioned officer in the USN flying ASW aircraft out of Moffett Field, Mountain View, CA) who has practiced copyright law domestically and internationally since 1979. I am not a law professor since I prefer to work with the law in lieu of counting theory-fairies on the head of a pin. I research matters such as this so that my participation within the ABA is more fully informed and timely, and also because keeping abreast of what is happening within the law is in my view quite important.

Importantly, I well recognize the pros and cons of copyright law as it is now implemented. I do not offer my personal opinions here since experience has taught me that they are best left for discussion within professional organizations such as the ABA, the AIPLA, and others of similar persuasion.
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dcee (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 3:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
ehhehe so I guess that the round in Hollywood is so secret that it doesn't even have a number! That's nice.
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B Pickel (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 3:45pm

Re: Re: Despicable
I thought TPP was already being used for "The Pirate Party"
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 3:47pm

Re: Hotel review sites
we need a slogan that both informs the reviewee that this is a protest, and gives an idea of what the proteest is about or enough to google

"If you like hotels that cater only for the rich and powerful........."no wait, that'll probably ATRACT a certain clientele

"Dont use this hotel if you care about the ordinary people's right" .......mmmmmm, a touch too generic, true, but generic

"Fuck you, hotel " as much as i like, its exactly the kind of fuel for your opposition and unlikely to get more support

"Support our cause, if you support your jobs, your babies and are a true patriot" whooah, sorry guys, had a slight case of the corruption there...... im better now

damn, i cant think of one
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 3:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Our existing IP law is indefensible and anyone defending our IP laws, or IP expansion/expanded enforcement, is either ignorant or dishonest.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 3:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Given the one sided nature of our existing IP laws, criticizing IP expansion/expanded enforcement is a good cause.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 4:02pm

Re: Re: Re:
"I am not at all sure what you are talking about when you say that TPP negotiations are taking place in "Hollywood"."

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120126/03162017547/public-interest-groups-speak- out-about-next-weeks-secret-meeting-hollywood-to-negotiate-tpp-think-international-sopa.shtml

App arently (Hollywood) corporate entities are secretly meeting with the USTR to discuss the matter.
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The Moondoggie, 1 Feb 2012 @ 4:18pm

The Moral
The moral of this story: When planning to take down Hollywood, which is just since every studio and exec there are corrupt and evil scumbags with no soul and doesn't deserve the right to live, please don't do hold a meeting in Hollywood. That just screams "stupidity".
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Beau, 1 Feb 2012 @ 4:19pm

Which hotel?
What hotel was it? It'd be awesome to organize a call flood around our disgust with them cancelling a reservation like this and indicating our intentions to boycott the hotel.
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Another AC, 1 Feb 2012 @ 4:50pm

Re: Re: Re:
Like I said, take a look around you. The substantive details are in plain sight, you just seem to be the only one who can't see it.
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vukovar (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 5:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Wow - as in I cannot believe your blind faith in the process. I think the recent events demonstrate that the democratic process is meaningless. I see businesses fighting to keep control and certainly will pull out all the stops in order to get what they want; to believe anything different is foolish.
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techinabox (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 5:54pm

Re: Re: Re:
Here is their Yelp.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/sofitel-los-angeles-los-angeles

I mentioned they will cancel events if a third party pays them to and that I could not trust my business to a hotel that takes bribes.
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 1 Feb 2012 @ 6:50pm

Re: I mentioned they will cancel events if a third party pays them to and that I could not trust my business to a hotel that takes bribes.
I couldn�t find your review. Sorting by date doesn�t show anything later than 24th January.

Was your review deleted, by any chance?
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techinabox (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 6:56pm

Re: Re: I mentioned they will cancel events if a third party pays them to and that I could not trust my business to a hotel that takes bribes.
Must have just taken a few minutes for it get to all the caches. I can see it up there.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Feb 2012 @ 8:33pm

Re: Re: Re: I mentioned they will cancel events if a third party pays them to and that I could not trust my business to a hotel that takes bribes.
...just as everyone can see what is likely your photo.
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AllanA (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 9:29pm

Sophie Jones
I am guessing this is the Sophie Jones that responded from the hotel to cancel. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/sophie-jones/30/ab8/278

so boycott Sofitel Luxury Resorts and Hotels
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Al Bert (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:06pm

Re:
you get extra points for the fact that it's one giant run-on sentence.
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Al Bert (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:17pm

like a ninja
/me acts like a shady crook
(to people watching): "don't mind me. i'm always like this."
(to self): "SMOOOTH"
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Al Bert (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:40pm

commercial pirate, ell oh ell
I don't even buy commercials any more. I'm not going to pay that much for a blu-ray if it only has 15 minutes of commercial previews on it and you can't even play them in a different order or put your favorite one on repeat. Being unable to stare vacantly into a loop of the trailer for 'Arthur', i turned to the internet and piracy. If the studios won't let me watch commercials when and how i want, i'll just go somewhere else.
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Al Bert (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 10:56pm

sociopolitical thermodynamics
The state just needs to keep up with implementing the further destruction of 4th and 5th amendment rights and install fear -- i mean respect into the general public to some greater degree.

If they increase the pressure, they can afford to hold a population at higher temperatures without risking boiling.
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Al Bert (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:01pm

Re: Hotel
For most of us, boycotting this hotel would be like me boycotting Miley Cyrus. There's no way i'd ever have been a customer anyway. The rest is just harassment, not so much a boycott.
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Al Bert (profile), 1 Feb 2012 @ 11:07pm

next?
I would say that that's one of their current targets; however, with the weapons they use and their claims and tactics, it's anybody's guess if they have an actual strategy beyond "Use money to obtain rights to permanent infinite profit stream"
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Niall (profile), 2 Feb 2012 @ 5:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Aren't they already doing a 'Leeroy'? Or can we only hope?
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Feb 2012 @ 5:23am

Re: Which hotel?
That's a laugh. It's not as if the losers and freeloaders that infest Techdirt are customers of a hotel like this. Now maybe if Motel 6 or America's Best Value Inn you could get noticed.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 2 Feb 2012 @ 7:51am

Re: commercial pirate, ell oh ell
That's why I look for BD Live discs, because the bonus live content is usually just a bunch of commercials.
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Nicolas (profile), 2 Feb 2012 @ 8:24am

Sofitel is managed by Accor, which owns Motel 6. A class act.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Feb 2012 @ 9:20am

Re: Re: Which hotel?
Your fear is showing....
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Grae (profile), 2 Feb 2012 @ 11:33am

Re:
"Three years ago a notice was published in the Federal Register re the TPP and requesting comments, pro and con, from EVERY member of the public. It is hard to reconcile the continuing mantra "We have no opportunity for input" when at the very start a request for input was published."

I found the document you're talking about, although it would have been helpful if you had simply linked it yourself in the first place.

Honestly this document is so bland and so lacking in detail that to claim there is sufficient information for the public to comment on is flimsy at best. The most info it provides are the topics that may be covered; the best anyone who is not privileged enough to actually have a seat at the table can do is make guesses about the details that will be discussed and try to comment on that, which is a farce of public involvement.

"Now, it seems that so many are focused on "secrecy" associated with its negotiation. This is not at all unusual while substantive discussions are taking place. Lest this be misunderstood, there is the saying "Too many cooks spoil the broth". I believe it applies here. Once negotiations are substantially complete, a draft will certainly be published for public comment before the agreement is signed."

By invoking the tiresome phrase "too many cooks spoil the broth" you seem to be saying that less input is better, because more input would make for a poorer outcome without actually providing supporting evidence for why greater input on international trade agreements/treaties would result in a worse outcome than lesser input. I could just as easily invoke the antonym phrase "many hands make for lighter work" as the justification for claiming that secrecy is unnecessary. It's nonsense. What I will say is that due to the vast number of citizens across signing nations affected by such agreements, it makes sense that the number of participants from public interest groups should at least equal if not outnumber the private corporations involved. Also if the sum of affected entities (corporations, the public) cannot come to an agreement, did it occur to anyone that perhaps the best course of action would be to not enter into an international treaty at this time?

Also publishing a public draft of treaty after the negotiations are complete is also useless. The best outcome from that scenario is another grassroots uprising like we saw with SOPA & PIPA that pressures the government to back down at the last second. The stakes are really too high for the public to be content with being allowed to comment after all the real work has been done.

"I do agree that what appears to be preferred access is a legitimate complaint. What I have to ask, though, is if there is anything preventing other groups from likewise meeting with the TPP negotiatiors? Frankly, I do not know the answer. I hope the answer is yes. I understand that a public presentation intended to solicit public input is to be held at the Australia Round of negotiations in March. Hopefully, those who feel left out of the process will attend and present their views and concerns."

What exactly is the use in meeting with TPP negotiators if the negotiations themselves are secret? Any negotiator who wanted to keep their seat at the table would be mad to disclose any pertinent, useful information. Also including the public at one time in Australia? If they're going to allow it once, why not have public inclusion at every negotiation? It makes it pretty clear that any such "inclusion" is probably another farce so everyone can pat themselves on the back and say they got "public" input.

"A final point. It is not reported if this is an executive agreement, or one authorized under authority conferred by Congress. I understand that Congress has held hearings concerning the negotiations, which suggests to me that this is not an executive agreement. Importantly, congressional participation does not mean that the resulting document will be a treaty, and courts have upheld agreements in which Congress participated under conditions other than its treaty powers."

Hopefully the executive branch doesn't try and whip out this "executive agreement" nonsense again; as the TPP clearly covers IP laws & issues and therefore falls under the authority of congress, no matter how much the president, the corporations, and their shills wish it were otherwise.
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Hank Rearden, 2 Feb 2012 @ 1:12pm

It's ours now.
Sorry MPAA, RIAA, US Government and other criminals.

Us geeks own the world now.

Get used to it.

Go back to your caves you entitled cro-mags.
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Michael Roberts, 2 Feb 2012 @ 2:12pm

Re: having a stake
If the hotel is in Hollywood (and it is) then it most definitely has a stake in who not to piss off. (Which, yes, is corruption - but I really can't blame the hotel.)
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Anonymous, 2 Feb 2012 @ 3:56pm

Ashamed to be an American.

I am ashamed to be a part of such an openly corrupt and maladaptive government. I will do everything in my power to spread awareness about this unacceptable behavior. Message boards, IRC channels, twitter, facebook, web blogs, posters, phone calls, emails, and letters. I will actively oppose any politicians who support ttp or any similar agreements. We may not have the power to stop the agreement, but we *do* have the power to remove every single government official who supports such an offensive agreement. The time may be soon to exercise this right of ours.

And if these agreements pass, I will join my peers in happily bypassing enforcement. I refuse to comply with these draconian law making policies, even if it means taking it to the darknets. These government officials do not represent me nor my interests. We have to make it clear that people run this country, not hollywood, and this behavior will not stand.
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Torg (profile), 3 Feb 2012 @ 7:19am

Re: Bets
I'm betting neither. Clearly pirates stole their reservations.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Feb 2012 @ 9:18am

"Secret Meeting"
Re: the "secrecy" thing. The issue isn't that the negotiations are a secret or that the public has no ability to send their elected officials letters and such. The issue is that the U.S. negotiating proposals and the negotiating texts are being kept secret. Most other international negotiations, even those at the World Trade Organization, happen with much more transparency, with negotiating texts published online so that the public can comment on them in an ongoing manner.

The fact is, once the three-plus years of negotiations are over and final texts are released for Congressional approval, it becomes extremely difficult to go back and make substantive changes. The only reason the IP issue is getting so much attention now is that chapter (one among 21 chapters) was leaked. What's being negotiated on banking regulations, on public procurement, on investor rights, on privatization of public services, on agriculture, on consumer safety? We can only guess. And we shouldn't have to guess. In a democracy, we should be told.

That's why "international civil society," which has known about the Trans-Pacific FTA for years, has been calling for over a year now for negotiators to release the texts.
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truth, 9 Feb 2012 @ 11:27am

Your focus is Senator Chris Dodd of the MPAA. There have been to MPAA heads that have resigned since that fascist Jack Valenti.

Dodd is a "resigned" right-hand man to Obama.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2012 @ 2:29pm

"And moot sayeth, Lo, This is 4chan, Bringer of Pain!"
-The Book of 4chan
Datalinks
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2012 @ 2:30pm

Re: Re: Bets
DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE, YOU ARE A PIRATE!
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darkeh, 9 Feb 2012 @ 3:53pm

Re: Re: How isn't this going to hurt Obama?
Because Obama signed ACTA, proving that he supports it, at least to some extent. We need someone in office who isn't going to rape the internet. Sadly, there is no one on either side that fits the bill and could get elected.
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Dr. Ewww!!! (profile), 10 Feb 2012 @ 9:18am

RTFA!!!
"Sophie Jones, Event Sales Manager, Sofitel Los Angeles stated:"

The hotel is Sofitel Los Angeles, obviously.

You've got to be a high roller to stay there. Sofitel New York is where Dominique Strauss-Kahn did or didn't rape hotel maid.

We were raped at Sofitel Los Angles.

Their rooms start at 387.26 per night.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Feb 2012 @ 2:19pm

I had about two paragraphs I just lost due to a laptop crash but this is the bulk of it.

If only all the SOPA supporters, creators ect. Had one long neck so I could strangle them. These people are a waste of space and human resources.
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Observer, 30 Aug 2012 @ 9:43pm

It's Obama pandering to his Hollywood money interests.
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Bill Z. Bubb, 21 Sep 2012 @ 7:39am

My Plan Will Prevail!!!
Ahhhh the evil masters plan proceeds hahahahaha
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Nov 2014 @ 11:36pm

I'm starting to hate them now
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