FAA Admits That It's Going To Rethink Whether You Can Use Kindles & Tablets On Takeoff & Landing
from the about-time dept
It's been pretty clear for quite some time that there's no real safety reason why electronics are barred during takeoff and landing on airplanes. Furthermore, there's no legitimate technological reason for not allowing mobile phones on planes either -- that one's more just about keeping other passengers from going into a rage at having to hear others' half-conversations. However, it seems that more and more people are getting annoyed that they can't use their snazzy new ebooks or tablet computers (not just iPads, mind you) on airplane take-off and landings. Nick Bilton, over at the NY Times, asked the FAA what was up with that, and they admitted that they're taking "a fresh look" at those devices and whether or not they should be allowed to be used at those times. Of course, as he notes, this might just lead to a bunch of bureaucratic red tape -- including every possible device having to go through significant testing:Abby Lunardini, vice president of corporate communications at Virgin America, explained that the current guidelines require that an airline must test each version of a single device before it can be approved by the F.A.A. For example, if the airline wanted to get approval for the iPad, it would have to test the first iPad, iPad 2 and the new iPad, each on a separate flight, with no passengers on the plane.But, hopefully, a better, more efficient process can be found, and people will actually be able to use these devices on airplanes that aren't just over 10,000 feet...
It would have to do the same for every version of the Kindle. It would have to do it for every different model of plane in its fleet. And American, JetBlue, United, Air Wisconsin, etc., would have to do the same thing. (No wonder the F.A.A. is keeping smartphones off the table since there are easily several hundred different models on the market.)
Ms. Lunardini added that Virgin America would like to perform these tests, but the current guidelines make it “prohibitively expensive, especially for an airline with a relatively small fleet that is always in the air on commercial flights like ours.”
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Filed Under: ebooks, electronics, faa, flights, in-flight electronics, landing, tablets, takeoff
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Mobile phones
Much as I agree with the general thrust of your argument (i.e. no particular EMC/safety reason to ban general electronic devices such as tablets), there is a very good technological reason for not allowing the use of mobile phones on planes.
Bacically its to do with the handoff of a mobile phone from one cell to another and if you are in a plane, the cellphone can see multiple cells and the multiple conitinuous handovers it causes sends the cell network into a tizzy. There is also the problem of reducing the chanel reuse, which is at the heart of a cell networks's ability to handle millions of cellphones.
At least one airline is getting the message that a straight ban on all devices is silly. We were allowed to use any devices during flight, even mobile phones as long as they were switched to aircraft mode.
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Re: Mobile phones
If the cell networks go into a tizzy because something is flying by at 500 mph, then there is probably a technological fix that can be instituted to look for that circumstance and minimize its effect. But cell networks' tizzy-fits have yet to bring down a single airplane, and most likely never will.
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Re: Re: Mobile phones
Ahem
"no particular EMC/safety reason to ban.....good technological reason"
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Re: Re: Re: Mobile phones
That could be a reason for cell network operators to prevent the use of mobile phones in planes, or possibly the FCC, but not a good reason for the FAA to do so.
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Re: Mobile phones
This is a problem that was "solved" ages ago with pico cells. We already see it on tons of airplanes with internet access. No reason it wouldn't work for mobile phones too.
That was the old excuse, but it's no excuse any more.
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Re: Mobile phones
You ever try getting a signal from a cell tower at 36,000 feet up? If you do end up connecting to a tower, you're moving so fast that by the time you do end up getting a signal, you're out of range. (Last flight I was on, my phone's GPS had me at around 37,000 ft up and traveling around 300mph.) Yes, GPS still works because you're using satellites.
The only thing leaving your cell phone on in an airplane does is drain the battery while it tries to find a cell tower.
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Re: Mobile phones
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But they could get scared about those Blimpduinos (a.k.a. UAVs) controlled by iPads and iPhones, someone could control one to deliver or drop a bomb on the plane :)
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paper backs and magazines?
Old school airline courtesy accommodations included recent periodicals onboard. The flight attendants would even ask passengers if they would like something to read. This was before everyone was treated like cattle.
Now days they have ads in every seatback, dont you feel special? Even your dentist has better reading material.
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Re:
have you considered that the demand is for pricing like cattle? Why do you think airlines are charging for every checked bag now? They are trying their hardest to meet your price point demands, and if that means cutting everything except toilet paper in the loo, then they will do it.
You want to pay a cattle price, so you get cattle service.
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Cattle price?
Pilots and crew do not make incredible dollars. Flight line sure doesn't. ATC, nope. Gate staff, nope. Yet, subsidy dollars keep flowing their way. Where's the money going?
It sure isn't going into a positive flight experience. Seats are cramped, service is diminished, and we're saddled with security theater that forces flyers to buy overpriced water at Hudson News. There's a racket going on for sure, but it's not driven by customer demand for poor treatment.
-C
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Where did I ask for the a cattle price - I am not finding it.
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Damn, you are the perfect customer.
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I know from personal experience that DFW to Bangalore is a completely different experience on BA or Lufthansa vs. AA or Delta (to be fair Delta was to/from Madrid, but the point still holds)
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TIL: Competition in the marketplace == treat your customers like cattle.
You see? I learn something new everyday - isn't life wonderful?
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I'll just put my chin to my sternum, put my headphones in, and sleep for the 6-7 hour flight.
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I don't know if the devices would ever effect a plane. I don't want to find out when I am in one.
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Given a small hassle v. nothing and the small hassle is the more important one.
Further, the fact of the matter is that the tests wouldn't be carried out if there was reason to believe that it would be disruptive to the plane itself.
I'm reasonably certain the initial bans came from a fear that communications technology could potentially interfere with crucial communications from the control tower. Such a test can easily be carried out in a parallel, and there shouldn't be any need to test every iteration of a device.
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Any damage your cell phone could cause is puny compared to a thunderstorm.
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Any damage your cell phone could cause is puny compared to a thunderstorm.
I'm not sure what you're referring to specifically, but planes get hit by lightning all the time and it's no problem. High winds from a thunderstorm could be quite dangerous of course.
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By contrast, I do know whether these devices would effect a plane (to whit, they wouldn't) and I absolutely want to find out when I'm in one (by actually using the device). Why should the fact that you don't understand basic science be a reason to inconvenience the rest of us?
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I don't know if an airplane can fly across the ocean without crashing into my house and I don't want to find out when I'm in my house. Lets ban airplanes.
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As the episode notes, airplanes are specifically hard wired to easily withstand high powered electromagnetic interferences without being affected.
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Arbitrary Government Power
Their "fresh look" is more likely a first look.
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ipads in cockpits
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Plus, my wife can spend the entire drive on the kindle if she so chooses. I would, of course, be busy driving anyway.
Why this is even something the FAA is wasting time on boggles my mind... no wonder this country is falling into the toilet - look at how the tax dollars are being spent.
With the incompetence of the TSA and FAA - iPads and Kindle are the least of our worries.
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Many others 'turn off' their Kindle, but all they are actually doing is locking the screen. It is still able to sync your content via 3G if it can get a signal
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Good News Everyone!
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Serenity now!
http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/airlines-replace-pilots-flight-bags-with-greener-ipads-3 2304
It talks about FAA having already approved the iPad for use by pilots during take-off and landings and possibly using them for aviation maps rather than having pilots haul tons of maps around.
So wouldn't that prove that iPads do not interfere with flight controls? Or am I missing something?
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Re: Serenity now!
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Apparently pilots can use them
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Its a bit more knowledgable than the fear based rhetoric I see going on here by some AC.
To be sure, there is some rational discussion taking place here, but as my first line indicates, the discusson is a bit more technical at slashdot.
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I don't get it...
Any electronic device disguised as a consumer electronic can make it through carry-on luggage screening. And for the most part we are relying on herd compliance to know if those devices are turned off. Hell I've accidentally forgotten to turn my phone off and only discovered the fact after I land and my battery is drained.
I can understand the FAA wanting people to listen to the safety announcement, but after that, what's the point?
I am far more worried about someone intentionally trying to bring a plane down using a purpose built device than any UL/CE certified consumer electronic.
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If everyone just submitted a list of devices they've used when they said they were off (yeah, really, my music player's off, I just don't feel like taking the earbuds out, sure) I bet we could have the majority of phones/music players cleared in a week.
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(and before you say that such cell phone interference could cause a problem, Mythbusters did an extensive show on that busting that Myth).
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But on all modern planes built in the last 40 years, there are no issues.
The one issue that does exist is the cell phone issue. I have heard from several friends in the cell phone industry that cells going from tower to tower at 500+ miles per hour would really cause issues if there were hundreds of them doing it at once. Still, they would probably solve it for the extra revenue.
But personally, I am all for an all-but-phones rule right now. It should be fine.
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Issues for what, the cell network or the plane? If the former and not the latter, the FAA should not be involved.
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Call the bluff and enjoy the Clash of the Titans
Protect the children from terrorists on planes. We need to let the TSA confiscate these deadly devices at the direction of the FAA and then watch how quickly the whole issue gets SOPA'd.
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Crashing
While it is true that mostly all devices are harmless imagine if one person tampered with their device in their basement and it now spews out signals that would crash the plane.
An all off rule avoids that situation. Then if a really bad device caused a plane malfunction in the air then the pilot have plenty of time to scream out "all devices off" while the fly is falling out of the sky.
Now I am not saying it is not extremely extremely unlikely for this to happen but why even take that risk instead of waiting a few minutes?
The only exception I would like to permit would be cameras that have no transmitter built in. I have before enjoyed recording the take off or landing on video.
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Books
I calmly pointed to the guy sitting next to me, who was reading his dead-tree hardcover book, at least twice the size and weight of my iPad, and which was an even greater missile danger. Yet he was allowed to keep his book unstowed.
She pursed her lips as she realized the logical absurdity involved, but nevertheless made me stow the iPad, saying, "I don't make the rules, I only enforce them."
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Re: Books
It would be even better if they were sedated, strapped to a backboard and stacked like bricks, that way the airlines could get more passengers per flight thus maximizing their profits. Oh yeah - and they could get rid of all those whiny flight attendants too.
To the white board ... we will need a catchy slogan.
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Just lump em all together
If there aren't then those devices are fine, if there IS a problem, then hunt down the offending device(s).
The problem caused will tell you how to detect which device is causing problems.
The argument that it is exorbitantly expensive is an excuse to maintain the status quo
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On a slightly different topic: is there any truth to the statement that (in the US at least) that persons who are piloting or riding in a hot-air balloon are legally disallowed from using cell phones? (In such a case, it would seem that interference with avionics would essentially be a non-issue, though there might be an issue with a phone contacting multiple cell towers on the ground. Even so, a hot-air balloon would not drift through the air anywhere near as fast as a jetliner. Also from what one understands, it can be convenient for persons riding in hot-air balloons to use two-way radios to communicate with ground crews.)
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Classic Penny Arcade strip
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It doesn't even matter!
What I did in the last plane I went to (true story, happened on Air Canada) is mess around with this guy in the row in front of me. I noticed he was using a Bluetooth mouse, so I looked at the computer he was using. It was a Macbook Pro.
On my own Macbook, I connected to him via Bluetooth repeatedly, and also found out his name. When he finally turned off his Bluetooth, I looked at his seat number and created a Wi-Fi network named "Thank Seat 11C".
After around 3 hours, I found out that I still had the network open. How? Apparently the flight attendant was checking up and got pissed. He was requested to shutdown his computer!
Long story short, noone gives a FUCK about the wireless networking rules in aircrafts.
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