Toronto Mayor Wants Residents To Report Graffiti Via iPhone, And Pay For The Privilege

from the good-luck-with-that dept

Tue, Apr 24th 2012 5:00am — Leigh Beadon

As our Canadian readers surely know, Toronto has a weird relationship with its current mayor, Rob Ford. I won't get into all the details, but basically he's a bit of a clown, elected by outlying semi-suburban neighbourhoods and roundly hated by most people downtown (except the city press, for whom he is an endless source of mockable quotes and photos). Among his many, many controversial initiatives as mayor is an anti-graffiti push that has come under fire for indiscriminately targeting authorized street art alongside actual vandalism (including the removal of one mural that was actually commissioned and paid for by the city itself). Apparently he's just as clueless about technology as he is about art, because as reader abc gum sends in, he's now asking people to report graffiti with an iPhone app—which costs money.

Taking the city's battle to clean up Toronto digital, Rob Ford visited a lane way near St. Clair and Lansdowne to unveil a new mobile app that lets citizens report unwanted graffiti instantly. Instead of coughing up for a phone call, smart phone users can now snap a picture and whisk it off to 311 for processing.

"This is as efficient as it gets," remarked Ford at press conference earlier today. "This will make it easier than ever to report graffiti vandalism and help keep the city spotless.

...

The app, which costs $1.99 (and is currently only available for iPhone), lets Apple smartphone users send photographs directly to the city with a request to remove of the offending material. If the property owner fails to clean up the tag, the city will - so they say - step in and bill the owner for the work.

Uh-huh. So instead of "coughing up" a phone call to the city information line, Rob Ford is hoping people will cough up two bucks (not even 99 cents?). And not just any people—the iPhone wielding, app downloading demographic that is his biggest enemy and the least interested in fighting graffiti. Whether it's pitched as a useful service for citizens or a request that they do their civic duty, slapping a price tag on it makes it little more than a joke.

Perhaps the most telling thing is that the app is built on the Open311 API that Toronto (among other cities) uses to provide access to city services—and yet nobody else seems to be bothering to try to build a graffiti reporting app. If there was a demand for it, there would be a swarm of developers working on it, and they probably would have beaten the city to the punch. Somehow I doubt that a two-dollar app is going to make people suddenly realize they've wanted this all along.

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Filed Under: app, canada, graffiti, iphone, open311, rob ford, toronto

67 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:02am

Actually, it seems like a good idea. Once again, I think you missed the chance here.

At $1.99, they city might get $0.50 per download - if half a million people download it, it's an extra $250,000 to fight graffiti. Not such a bad thing.

This of it as crowd funding.

You are so small minded sometimes.
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- This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
  
  Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:11am
  
  Re:
  You have to remember how close minded Mike can be sometimes, though.
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  - PaulT (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:21am
    
    Re: Re:
    What does this have to do with Mike?
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    - abc gum, 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:31am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Actually, this seems like a good idea - blame Mike not matter who wrote it. That one need not even read at all, everyone wins.
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- ethorad (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:21am
  
  Re:
  Using your numbers granted the city would be up $250k but there's no indication that this would be earmarked to combat graffiti. However, the citizens of the city are down $1m. Since have proved willing to spend $2 each on something to help the city, why not make it free and have a "donate money to the graffiti cleaning effort". That way you would get the whole of the $1m to fight graffiti.
  
  As it stands it's crowd funding with a 75% tax rate which is pretty poor.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 7:39am
    
    Re: Re:
    It's one of those things where the city is taking a step in the right direction, trying to embrace technology, and all Marcus can do is shit on them for trying.
    
    How small minded is that?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Trails (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 7:52am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Oh, they're trying. A for effort, Toronto Municipal Gov't!
      
      I agree with AC here. We're too focused on results. The efforts of our city council are not properly rewarded. Who cares that the schools are underfunded, transit is massivley overburdened, and the council is wasting millions on unsourced contracts, so long as they're giving it the good ol' college try.
      
      I look forward to the next municipal election season where campaigns espouse the virtues "Vote for me, I'll try!".
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    - Leigh Beadon (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 8:16am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      It's one of those things where the city is taking a step in the right direction, trying to embrace technology, and all Marcus can do is shit on them for trying.
      
      Hahahahahaha. Coming from the guy who can't wait to shit on every artist/company/anything we post here. I'll say this for you: you've turned credibility-obliterating hypocrisy into an art form.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 8:27am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Nice non-answer.
        
        Why are you shitting on the City of Toronto for trying to embrace technology? Would you prefer that they only accept reports of graffiti via cable or perhaps pony express?
        
        Admit it Marcus, you booted another one into the weeds with your rush to judgement.
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        Leigh Beadon (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 8:30am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Why are you shitting on the City of Toronto for trying to embrace technology?
        
        Because they're doing it badly. Sorry, thought that was obvious - I keep forgetting you are completely blind to the obvious.
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        Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 10:38am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Why should Torontons have to purchase an app that was developed with taxpayer money? Why doesn't the city government embrace common sense? If the vandalism bugs me so much I might as well spend the $3 on paint and do it myself instead of purchasing an app for $2 (iDevice required otherwise, purchase iDevice $200-$600 with ~$2500 two-year voice and data agreement), reporting the vandalism, and waiting 2.5 years for it to be cleaned up.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 25 Apr 2012 @ 7:50am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Well Chuck, if you read the story, you would realize that the graffiti isn't on THEIR property, it's on other people's property. So unless you want to be a vandal yourself (by painting on someone else's property), you cannot go out and just be a vigilante graffiti removal dude.
        
        Second, your argument about device cost and the like is kind of stupid, especially in light of the standard techdirt argument for piracy, which is that the cost of the computer and the connection isn't relevant because the people who would do it would "have it anyway". Anyone who is going to go out and take a service plan for 3 years just to download a $2 app is as stupid as they come. Thinking people are that stupid is, well, "special", which is where you ended up.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 8:30pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      A step in the right direction?
      
      So now the citizens can make reports faster... and you want them to pay for it? Maybe you should charge citizens for telephoning the police because it's much easier than making your way down to the police station...
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:37am
  
  Re:
  Alternatively, the city might get $0.10 per download - if 14 people download it, that's an extra $1.40 to fight graffiti.
  
  See, I can make up irrelevant numbers too!
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  - Niall (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:54am
    
    Re: Re:
    Don't forget the 30% that goes to Apple - so you're gifting Apple with $300,000 for nothing, really. Certainly money that could be used for better things.
    
    Easier to have an .apk on the council website.
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:43am
  
  Re:
  "At $1.99, they city might get $0.50 per download - if half a million people download it, it's an extra $250,000 to fight graffiti. Not such a bad thing."
  
  Now we have to pay to report problems?
  That's small-minded!
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:58am
  
  Re:
  You'd have to get 500,000 people to download it first.
  
  And somehow I doubt the numbers will go over even 9000.
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I am outraged, 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:12am

Innovation is not all smart stuff
people will do it

There are so many ""fake outraged"" people out there.
(some are bound to have iPhones)
They complain about every trivial thing , stuff that has nothing to do with them.
Even if it doesn't impact their lives in any way...they don't just complain , they complain hard.

But then again.... if you don't complain about Apple ripping you off , you probably won't complain about graffiti.
DOUBLE BACK STEP ooops : /
forgot... "fake outraged" people only complain about stuff that doesn't affect them.

people will do it
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:18am

Leigh, my boy, please stop writing about your silly country to the north. We aren't obsessed with your country like you all are with ours. You can't get enough of this great country. That's understandable, since the U.S. is fucking awesome. But don't think for even one second that we care about Canada.
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- Leigh Beadon (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:33am
  
  Re:
  Leigh, my boy, please stop writing about your silly country to the north. We aren't obsessed with your country like you all are with ours. You can't get enough of this great country. That's understandable, since the U.S. is fucking awesome. But don't think for even one second that we care about Canada.
  
  Suck it up, buttercup. We have a sizeable Canadian readership here. You don't like it, go read a different blog.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - I am outraged, 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:48am
    
    Re: Re:
    sorry for off topic...
    AKISMET BLOCK:
    My comments held for moderation / spam filter
    Can you allow them ? ( x2 )
    
    BTW... American narcissism gets me too
    from the "greatest country in the world"
    Highest incarceration rate in the world... USA...USA...USA
    
    where I am.....
    Belfast N.I. U.K over 700% LESS prisoners relative to population.
    You don't hear me bragging while getting free health care that Northern Ireland is way way way better than USA.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Paddy Duke, 26 Apr 2012 @ 9:49am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Even more off topic, it�s nice to know there are other Techdirt readers in Belfast.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - silverscarcat (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:50am
    
    Re: Re:
    Silly Canadians and your silly ways.
    
    You silly Canadians keep running over the boarder every weekend around here.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - I am outraged, 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:53am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      They should close the borders.
      
      If they don't... all the Canadians will flee America.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - G Thompson (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 6:52am
    
    Re: Re:
    Canadians, Americans... aren't you both Norte American's?
    
    May the Southern Hemisphere rule forever!
    
    Muwahahahahahahahaha
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  - Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 10:44am
    
    Re: Re:
    LOL! GG
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- derp, 24 Apr 2012 @ 1:10pm
  
  Re:
  Anonymous Coward, Apr 24th, 2012 @ 5:18am
  
  Well, your momma.
  
  There. Brings me back to the ripe old age of 10. Thanks for the memories.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 4:19pm
  
  Re:
  Considering just how many huge stars come out of the Great White North, I'd advise you to shut it. The ones we don't want will always come down here, and the ones we do want people like you scare off. (Maybe you should just wear an ape mask...)
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 8:08pm
  
  Re:
  Then stop obsessing over how Canadians can freely download stuff for personal use. For that matter, go to Canada and clean up that steaming pile of turd you left behind. It's called CRIA.
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ethorad (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:25am

generalisation ahoy!
"the iPhone wielding, app downloading demographic that is ... the least interested in fighting graffiti"
[citation required]
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:31am

In Toronto "mayor" Rob Ford is called "FAT BASTARD"
I hope this message doesn't drive the thin-skinned fat fascist bastard's blood-pressure too far through the roof. He might have a heart attack and die. Then we'd just have to celebrate.

Fat Bastard is a fascist dunce with ZERO credibility.
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:45am
  
  Re: In Toronto "mayor" Rob Ford is called "FAT BASTARD"
  This is insulting to fat bastards everywhere.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Niall (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:57am
    
    Re: Re: In Toronto "mayor" Rob Ford is called "FAT BASTARD"
    Yes, that famous 'Canadian' 'Fat Bastard' (as played by Canadian Mike Myers) might have to come squash you.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:32am

Hey it's Fee-oronto, the people should be used to paying fees for even the simplest things.
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- Greg (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 7:57am
  
  Re:
  Yeah, I love how you can snail mail in your parking ticket fees for free (excluding the stamp), but if you pay for them online or over the automated phone interface, you've got to pay a $1.50 "convenience fee". Inefficiency rules. Pure genius.
  
  Can't blame that one on our current clown of a mayor, though, although he is a complete jackass.
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dwind (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 5:42am

TO has much larger problems to deal with
Like a hockey team that hasn't made the playoffs in recent history, hasn't won a stanley cup since Moses parted the red sea. The GM is an American who hasn't provided the town with winning players.
Please mayor Ford, solve these problems before tackling the graffiti.
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- hfbs (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 6:14am
  
  Re: TO has much larger problems to deal with
  Mmm, yes, I can see that the lack of success in sports is by far a bigger problem than graffiti.
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 4:32pm
  
  Re: TO has much larger problems to deal with
  Won the cup 13 times in 95 years. The Montreal Canadiens 24 times since 1893... Maybe it's just time to kick the American off the Canadian coaching staff and let them take it all back. Hey, a good winning streak might make for more interesting graffiti, at least.
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BentFranklin (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 6:08am

I'd much rather report graffiti with an app than a phone call and $2 is just a funny looking coin, so what's the big deal?
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The Devil's Coachman (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 6:28am

Reporting graffiti is like reporting roaches or rats
By the time the city acts, they've gone elsewhere, or simply become an accepted part of local life.
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- Leigh Beadon (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 6:39am
  
  Re: Reporting graffiti is like reporting roaches or rats
  By the time the city acts, they've gone elsewhere, or simply become an accepted part of local life.
  
  Toronto is a pretty graffiti-friendly city, too. We have lots of commissioned murals on the sides of businesses and such in quite a few neighbourhoods, and some factories in the west end have for years volunteered a huge stretch of their back walls - visible from an above-ground portion of the subway - as a graffiti free-for-all, so taking the train past there is always awesome. But Rob Ford wants to change all that. He goes and stands by a garage in Scarborough and points to some crappy threat scrawled in permanent marker for a photo op - then the teams go out and sandblast a mural that was commissioned by one of the city councillors for their neighbourhood.
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Beech, 24 Apr 2012 @ 6:30am

Personally I think graffiti is awesome. Can I get an app that tags sweet tags and have the city leave them alone?
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 6:41am

Don't forget the rest of Canada hates Toronto two not just the Americans.
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- Michael, 2 May 2012 @ 5:26am
  
  Re:
  Naw, its only the CPC fans that hate Toronto. It goes back to a time when Ontario was a thriving manufacturing sector.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 6:41am

Don't forget the rest of Canada hates Toronto two not just the Americans.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 6:41am

sounds like a typical situation where certain people and certain devices are the biggest heap of crap going until the use is there for something specifically wanted by those that keep condemning. and to be expected to pay yourself for their benefit as well is more than a bit naughty. and from a country that charges for making calls to emergency services as well! would have thought a quick 'piss off' was in order.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 6:48am

Graffiti does make an area look bad and I have called in the past. I was asked so many questions about myself that I felt like I had done something wrong. I would gladly pay $2 to report graffiti, crime, etc. and not have to talk to anyone. Recently I was walking my dogs and found a car that had been vandalized; I reported it and they asked me to wait for the officer. Thirty minutes later the officer came and asked the same quesitons they asked on the phone. This will be the last time I actually call to report anything. DON'T GET KILLED IN FRONT ON ME, I'M NOT CALLING! I'll report it with my app though.
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- Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 10:35am
  
  Re:
  "Thirty minutes later the officer came and asked the same quesitons they asked on the phone."
  
  Hmm, the one time I called the police to have an officer come for something, they did that too. Now, I could almost see them repeating the questions to make sure it was the same person who called them, but the officer asked the questions AFTER she asked for my ID, which I provided. It really felt like a waste of her time and mine... especially since even if the information I was providing was totally false it wouldn't have had any impact on anything.
  
  "I'll report it with my app though."
  
  They probably wouldn't bother with graffiti, but for anything else they'd probably use your phone information to find you and ask you those questions anyway.
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- John Fenderson (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 11:00am
  
  Re:
  I reported it and they asked me to wait for the officer
  
  You know you can always just tell them "no, I can't wait."
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  - Laroquod (profile), 25 Apr 2012 @ 7:31am
    
    Re: Re:
    The would require a disrespect for authority; which is considered tantamount to terrorism. Can't risk being seen as some kind of terrorist!
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 7:07am

Crime fighting Apps
Shouldn't this be filed under "really stupid idea department"
How much graffiti does Toronto Have?
Shouldn't graffiti be reported by the building owner or tenant?
Can't people just call someone to report vandalism?
Do people even realize that their smartphones can be used as a phone?

Perhaps they will introduce an App that lets you know when your being mugged.

Or one that I would really like to see is one that transfers a Nickel from a politician's bank to yours, every time they lie!
I would be freakin Rich!!
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- Leigh Beadon (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 7:15am
  
  Re: Crime fighting Apps
  Shouldn't graffiti be reported by the building owner or tenant?
  
  The city holds the building owner responsible for removing the graffiti - and if they won't do it, the city sends a crew then sends a bill. So you won't get many building owners reporting graffiti.
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  - E. Zachary Knight (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 8:32am
    
    Re: Re: Crime fighting Apps
    That is where the stupidity lies. Especially when you consider the fact that a building owner has commission the mural.
    
    Building owner pays money for people to paint a mural.
    City sandblasts it and sends the bill to the building owner.
    Building owner is out the money for the mural and the unauthorized removal of the mural.
    
    Talk about jerk moves by the city.
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- monkyyy, 24 Apr 2012 @ 11:05am
  
  Re: Crime fighting Apps
  they would be broke within 3 minutes, meaning the fed would have to print money to pay off the debt whih comes w/ its own problems
  
  also bigbother is always right, do not question big brother
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 7:22am

a bit of a clown?
no, a full out clown that has become an embarrassment.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 8:26am

We've had this for a while in Vegas, ours can report graffiti or other code violations. Our city is run like a giant HOA. Just make it look pretty and wait for the investors.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 8:44am

Clueless about art, no!
Just clueless about what the city of Toronto has wasted taxpayer monies on.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 8:49am

This is just wrong I went to the App store and got the SeeClickFix app for free. Maybe a few minutes checking the facts would do a world of good!
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- Leigh Beadon (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 8:56am
  
  Re:
  According to the original post, that free one is a different app
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Bennett (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 8:54am

Ford is a Fool
Judging by many of the comments here, it's obvious that many of the readers do not understand just how much of a buffoon Toronto's mayor Rob Ford is.

Yes the idea of a graffiti reporting app does have some technical merit, and yes it could bring the City of Toronto some funding. However the numbers we're talking about are not significant.

We're talking about a mayor, who on his first day of office threw away $65,000,000.00 of annual funding, in order to "stop the war on the car". This is in a city that allegedly has the worst commute times in North America! Even if every Torontonian bought this iPhone app, we're barely talking about a fraction of the funds Ford has thrown away!

http://www.thestar.com/yourcitymycity/article/787049--toronto-ranked-last-in-survey-of-comm uting-times

There are other questions of course. How much did it cost the city to develop this application? How much money is the city spending employing by-law officers to police businesses that have graffiti on their buildings? (yes I've seen a business I consult for ticketed first hand!) If the city really cares about cutting costs, and being digitally responsible, why aren't they running GNU/Linux instead of a product produced by a foreign firm?

Sadly for those of us unfortunate enough to live in Toronto, we have to live with Ford for a minimum of two more years. Worse, we have to live with a population that widely elected this racist homophobe into office.

If you think I'm exaggerating about the racist/homophobe line, I can produce City Council minutes, and other quotes to backup my statements.
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- Chris-Mouse (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 11:42am
  
  Re: Ford is a Fool
  You forgot to mention that he followed it up by cancelling an $8 billion transit plan that had been developed over the last ten years. Cancelling that plan cost the city $49 million dollars in cancellation fees.
  Then he tried to push through a subway only plan that would have cost the city $1 billion dollars more than the amount of money available, with the expectation that developers would cough up the extra money to finish it.
  Funny how after a year of trying, nobody has been willing to commit anything in the way of donations to the project.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Bennett (profile), 24 Apr 2012 @ 12:05pm
    
    Re: Re: Ford is a Fool
    I would have mentioned many more things about Ford, but I didn't want to get too off topic. I wasn't perfectly sure about the value of the fines for cancelling Metrolinx, I actually thought it was upwards of $65 million. Making his first day in office cost us a whopping $130 million.
    
    These are just the 'hard' values though. There is a massive derived cost to his actions. By making it easier for individuals to afford cars, and making it harder for individuals to take transit, the man is costing us a fortune in time and money caused by traffic.
    
    Rob Ford has actually had me banned from his facebook page for pointing these things out. Worse than that Ford actually has someone prune his Facebook page so it only shows positive comments. All this from a man who claims to want to listen to "the hard working voters".
    
    I'm far from the only one banned/pruned from his Facebook page. I have a friend, who's a respected Ph.D. who wasn't just blocked from FB, but had his posts pruned, so they had no context. His only crime was convincing a Ford supporter that Ford was wrong.
    
    The worst part is, he claims to want small government, yet presumably someone from the city is censoring his Facebook page.
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    - Toot Rue (profile), 2 May 2012 @ 9:52am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Ford is a Fool
      And yet a majority of people seem to have elected him. Interesting
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 10:06am

Name
Whats the name of the App?
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Apr 2012 @ 12:48pm

You shouldn't have to pay to report crime.
You can argue whether or not people would pay to do this, but I think that kind of misses the point. If someone is being murdered, most people aren't going to worry about a $1.99 fee to call 911. That doesn't mean that such a fee is appropriate.

It should never cost money to contact the police to report a crime. I'm sure that they have costs associated with developing the app, but if it they weren't willing to bear the costs then they never should have developed it.
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Michael, 2 May 2012 @ 5:28am

Anything for a photo op
Porky Pig (Ford) has a habit of going after photo ops and slinging one liners because he has nothing of substance to say. This is the guy who wants to close libraries because he doesn't think people want to read. He gets drunk and yells at people that look foreign to him at hockey games, tries to shout down any dissenting opinion in council... he is not going to be at the trough long. He'll be sizzling bacon soon enough.
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