London Police Want To Crowdsource Guilt-Free Surveillance

from the watching-over-you dept

Thu, Jun 28th 2012 1:47pm — Glyn Moody

One of the earliest proposals for mass surveillance was the Panopticon:

a type of institutional building designed by English philosopher and social theorist Jeremy Bentham in the late eighteenth century. The concept of the design is to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) inmates of an institution without them being able to tell whether or not they are being watched.

The design consists of a circular structure with an "inspection house" at its centre, from which the managers or staff of the institution are able to watch the inmates, who are stationed around the perimeter. Bentham conceived the basic plan as being equally applicable to hospitals, schools, poorhouses, daycares, and madhouses, but he devoted most of his efforts to developing a design for a Panopticon prison, and it is his prison which is most widely understood by the term.

As the rest of the fascinating Wikipedia entry on the subject explains, Bentham never managed to build his Panopticon prison, despite being given relatively large sums of public money to do so. But his idea not only lives on, it has come ever closer to realization thanks to new technologies. Boing Boing points us to this latest approach, based around smartphones and crowdsourcing: The Metropolitan Police is hoping to use crowd-sourcing to identify people suspected of committing crimes in last year's riots in London.

Officers are to upload up to 2,800 CCTV images taken during the disorder in August on to its smartphone app.
What's particularly striking about this scheme is the scale: "My hope is that the two-thirds of Londoners who own smartphones will download this app, and help us identify people we still need to speak to.

We need Londoners to browse through the app every week or so as new images will appear regularly. This is a fantastic way for Londoners to help us to fight crime."
In the case of the London riots, the CCTV images may be relatively unequivocal about crimes being committed; but the new scheme is already being extended beyond those exceptional events: The app will also include a further 2,000 images of people wanted by the police for offences not connected to the riots.
That's worrying because there is no way of knowing what these people are accused of -- they might, for example, be involved in legitimate street protests against the UK government, or against multinational corporations in the UK, both of which have been subject to controversial policing in the capital. That seems a real possibility, given what Facewatch, the company behind the scheme's technology, says about its service: An online crime reporting system for businesses to report crime providing the full evidential package required by the police

A way for businesses to deter crime by instantly sharing images of suspects between group members
In addition: All images from reported crimes are viewed by the police who will try to identify and match suspects using the information provided.
This raises the prospect not only of deterring crime, but of deterring protests, since participating companies will be able to pass photos of protesters who are alleged to have committed criminal acts to the police, who can then add the faces to all the others on their smartphone app. Londoners can then help identify them without concerning themselves about the legitimacy of the requests, since they will just be part of the constantly-updated stream of alleged criminals. Jeremy Bentham would have been proud of such an efficient, anonymous system of control.

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Filed Under: cctv, london, panopticon, police, surveillance, uk

87 Comments

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Jacob Blaustein, 28 Jun 2012 @ 1:52pm

Well there are some ways that this can be mitigated. for example, make it mandatory to see what the person is accused of. Besides crowd sourcing can make checking the facts eaiser.
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I guess corporations really are "people" nowadays, 28 Jun 2012 @ 1:56pm

An online crime reporting system for businesses to report crime providing the full evidential package required by the police

A way for businesses to deter crime by instantly sharing images of suspects between group members

Why is Facewatch about "businesses" reporting crime and not "people" reporting crime? The language here seems a little to laser-focused towards easily justifying protectionism.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 1:58pm

the whole idea of all the surveillance laws being introduced is so that every government, whether in a democratic society or not, can identify, then intimidate whoever they want with the ultimate aim of threatening them with prosecution if they dare to protest against the government again. the ultimate deterrent from dictatorships is in the offing, wiping out any remnants of democracies. the price of fear on the part of governments and politicians that just take payments from those that want special favours. what a society we are very fast heading towards!
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sehlat (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:07pm

Ahhh. Guilty Until Proven Innocent
After all, if your image is up there, you MUST be guilty of SOMETHING.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:20pm

Re: Time ♫ Is on my Side
If any society ever managed to complete subdue the human quality of being decidedly indomitable, I would be impressed.

Humans never take to being suppressed, regardless of the odds against them.

Doesn't matter the odds or tech, doesn't matter how many of "them" there is, really--NOTHING matters except the very simple fact that humans, when suppressed, will rebel.

So, I look forward to the eventual end of this shit, right after the most amazing and possibly violent revolution the world has ever seen.
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anonymous, 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:20pm

Re:
or deter potential competition.it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that once such a system becomes commonplace the rules of evidence will most likely be modified to reduce the potential of a successful legal challenge to any prossecution based on the crowd sourcing app.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:28pm

English eyes....
I see you, you see me
Watch you blowin traffic lights and makin' a scene
Boys and girls, you've got to know,
The senses will show to our jails
When it's nothing but offers to further our coffers,

You can't escape our
English Eyes (clap clap), we're waaaaatching you,
We see your everyyyyy mooooove,
English Eyes (clap clap), we're waaaaatching you,
Watching you, watching you, watching you!
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:29pm

reporting
nice move by your coding staff, changing your policy so that you have to be logged in to the site in order to 'vote', aka, click on the insightful, funny, and report buttons. earlier it was tied to logged in membership cookies, but that's ok, there is a way around that too. but I am impressed by the implementation of such a change so quickly.

for those not following along at home. A/C or any viewer could click on the insightful, funny, or report buttons without having to be logged in. i took it upon myself to begin flyswatting the greedtards here and their litany of idiodic arguments that weren't even arguments in order to hide their posts. and in one day it was changed.

i am probably giving your IT staff too much credit, being as techdirt is based on wordpress, and not real code, or the ability of your IT to actually code for themselves. so, instead of using Zeus on your wordpress, I followed your restrictions and used vpn to vote multiple times. but that's ok too, I can understand why you changed the rules. easily enough circumvented, but i get it.

after posting under probably 23 different IPs here, I can easily increase that by 3,000 different IPs. but I have a better idea and you should probably expect new and inventive ways of censoring the idiots here, it's a good taste of their own medicine. one thing you should always remember, there is always someone out there that is incredibly smarter than you are, this is the way of the internet. I respect you Mr. Masnick, and your blog, but you really shouldn't fuck with ppl smarter than you are.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:31pm

George Orwell was British in the year is 1984.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:33pm

Re: reporting
eh I can click on them just fine.

If true however, fuck you, I don't want to make yet another account but I do like to participate (and don't care enough to try to rig the system, it's just comments for crying out loud)
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anonymous dutch coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:34pm

riot scum or tv shack students
"and help us identify people we still need to speak to." define "need to speak" please. is this a photo gallery of convicted or suspected criminals? are these crimewatch uk like pics of people photographed while kicking someones head in? riot scum or tv shack students? i doubt that the general public has a problem with turning in the asshole category.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:34pm

Re: reporting
Huh, you're pretty upset about this, aren't you?
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:39pm

Re: Re: reporting
oh, not at all, if you read my post, i commended the staff
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:39pm

Re: riot scum or tv shack students
Easy solution: present video of what they're accused of doing.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:41pm

Re: Re: Re: reporting
sorry, doing some testing, the above A/C is me
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:41pm

Re: Re: reporting
refresh the page, and see if your vote stuck.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:47pm

Re:
No, he died in 1950 so that is not true!
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Leigh Beadon (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:47pm

Re: reporting
nice move by your coding staff, changing your policy so that you have to be logged in to the site in order to 'vote', aka, click on the insightful, funny, and report buttons. earlier it was tied to logged in membership cookies, but that's ok, there is a way around that too. but I am impressed by the implementation of such a change so quickly.

for those not following along at home. A/C or any viewer could click on the insightful, funny, or report buttons without having to be logged in. i took it upon myself to begin flyswatting the greedtards here and their litany of idiodic arguments that weren't even arguments in order to hide their posts. and in one day it was changed.

To my knowledge, we made no such change. And indeed I just logged out to check, and I can vote just fine... It is likely that you simply were here during a moment of high traffic when the server was lagging, which can on occasion interferes with the script that manages comment voting.

i am probably giving your IT staff too much credit, being as techdirt is based on wordpress, and not real code, or the ability of your IT to actually code for themselves. so, instead of using Zeus on your wordpress, I followed your restrictions and used vpn to vote multiple times. but that's ok too, I can understand why you changed the rules. easily enough circumvented, but i get it.

Not only have we not changed any rules but we are not, in fact, based on Wordpress either - so before you start flinging thinly veiled insults you might want to make sure you're not making obvious errors in your own analysis.

after posting under probably 23 different IPs here, I can easily increase that by 3,000 different IPs. but I have a better idea and you should probably expect new and inventive ways of censoring the idiots here, it's a good taste of their own medicine. one thing you should always remember, there is always someone out there that is incredibly smarter than you are, this is the way of the internet. I respect you Mr. Masnick, and your blog, but you really shouldn't fuck with ppl smarter than you are.

Umm... go for it? There are certainly a lot of smart people out there - not entirely sure that you're one of them based on your incorrect diagnosis here, but who knows. Definitely not sure what Mike or anyone did to "fuck" with anyone.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:50pm

Re: Re: reporting
and hijacked IPs in Hong Kong take a minute to process :)
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:51pm

Re:
I had the exact same thought and honestly I think it is positive to see the police interacting more with people. The need for seeing what the person is accused of is essential for the public trust and I would guess that it could be rather easy to add that information.
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Leigh Beadon (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:52pm

Re: Re: Re: reporting
refresh the page, and see if your vote stuck.

If there is indeed a problem with retaining votes, it's a bug -- we are working on some new comment features and it's possible something got broken. I've passed this along and I'll let you know what happens. Sorry to disappoint you, but there's no great conspiracy to exclude the non-logged-in votes here.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:52pm

Re: Re: reporting
I was not thinly veiling anything, merely stating fact. as for your 'perceived' threat, this is nothing of the sort. it is again merely stating fact. I respect Masnick, and you as well, this is a very informative blog, i would never affect it in a black hat manner, I am only stating fact.
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weneedhelp (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:54pm

Re: Re: Time ♫ Is on my Side
"So, I look forward to the eventual end of this shit, right after the most amazing and possibly violent revolution the world has ever seen."

You mean the bloodiest massacre the world has ever seen. Our pitiful little guns will be nothing compared to what is used against us.

LRAD's, drones, X-ray trucks, ya know, all those fun little toys our tax dollars paid for.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-06-19/drone-backlash/55682654/1

http:/ /www.chron.com/news/nation-world/article/White-House-OKs-broader-access-to-spy-satellite-1831291.php

the ability to view data obtained from satellite and aircraft sensors that can see through cloud cover and even penetrate buildings and underground bunkers.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
thank you Leigh, I never mentioned some conspiracy, however, I can see your code (for the website) and it was obviously changed, again, stating fact.
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Leigh Beadon (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 2:56pm

Re: Re: Re: reporting
I am only stating fact.

Except when you state that we have made some sort of policy change to combat anonymous votes (not a fact) and when you state that we run on wordpress (not a fact) and when you state that our site is not built on "real code" (it's hugely customized) and the guy who runs our site doesn't know how to code (again not a fact) and that Mike is trying to "fuck with ppl smarter" than him (once more, not a fact)

So sorry, you're short on facts today.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:01pm

Re: Re: reporting
not entirely sure that you're one of them based on your incorrect diagnosis here

and you base this assumption on your immense knowledge of..?
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
true, I know not your staff, but can see your code, this is my basis for conjecture, but the facts remain =]
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Leigh Beadon (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:04pm

Re: Re: Re: reporting
and you base this assumption on your immense knowledge of..?

of the fact that i work here, I know firsthand what framework the site runs on, I talk to the guy who maintains it every single day, and I have access to see the comment votes - which include several anonymous votes on comments on this very post, that are being tracked no problem and which I can clearly see.

If some votes are not being tracked, there is some sort of glitch. We'll get it fixed.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:05pm

Whats to stop a supposedly reputable party from falsly incriminating someone for personal gain

Where's the fucking safeguards, you dont talk about things on this scale without expressly metioning the safequards first and foremost, and then, and only then, when the safeguards have been accepted by the general public on matters concerning the public, should "negotiations" go on

These, aswell as *many* other things are what law should address.
Governments want to regulate us, and its becoming quite clear that we have been forced to regulate them......since it doesnt look like anyone else is fucking doing it
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
fair enough, I have a 162 IQ, what does Mr. Masnick have? I do not see him in the MENSA alumni meetings..
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Leigh Beadon (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
Now you're just trolling. I hope.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
then you are absolutely right, and I have brought an issue to your attention, my goal met.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
unfortunately, no, I am not a troll, just someone that doesn't like capitalization. but seriously, you are not taking me serious, so, I therefore do not take your's either.
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Leigh Beadon (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:12pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
then you are absolutely right, and I have brought an issue to your attention, my goal met.

Except we just checked, and there is no glitch. Everything as far as we can tell is operating exactly as it always has, since the feature launched in fact. So - really no idea what you're talking about, I'm afraid. What code is it that you claim has changed?
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Vidiot (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:13pm

Point your mobile the other way 'round
Wouldn't it be funny if all the citizen-submitted images showed the police beating the living bejeezus out of people? (Not that the Metropolitan Police would ever do that.)
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
Marcus, relax, go get some air, Toronto is nice this time of year.
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Leigh Beadon (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
Of course I'm not taking you seriously. You can't even correctly recognize a Wordpress-generated site.
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Leigh Beadon (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
I'm perfectly relaxed, and becoming increasingly amused.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:16pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
sadly, I admit, my analysis is prob beyond you, i could post a white paper, but that defeats my purpose, why? because i don't work for you. you are arguing a point of contention that is already past, and proven, i am not trying to discredit you, just your ability to swim with the big fish.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
lets start small einstien, post the lorenz transformation.
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Leigh Beadon (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:18pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
I apologize - I didn't realize you were a self-proclaimed genius or I wouldn't have said anything
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
would you like references?
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Leigh Beadon (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
lets start small einstien, post the lorenz transformation.

I have a better challenge: SPELL the Lorentz Transformation :P
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Michael Costanza (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:21pm

Re: reporting
Nothing has changed and your votes are being registered. If you vote on a comment and you're not signed in, then you reload the page, of course the button doesn't stick. You're not signed in. We can't assume you're the same person. The behavior you're seeing is expected, correct, and has been exactly the same since the day we launched comment ratings. Feel free to vote as often as you'd like.

Just in case you're interested, Techdirt is not on Wordpress (though perhaps it will be someday). It is run on custom code loosely based on the old slashcode, which we ditched almost a decade ago.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
fantastic, i amused an admin. i feel so much better, well, not.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
Lorenz Transformation
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:26pm

Re: Re: reporting
highly loosly, and your point?
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
word against word, sigh, you are bad as the trolls here. if i post the entire code that is techdirt would you believe me then?
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:30pm

Re: reporting
your the problem, not the answer
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
oh, lets quibble about punctuation and grammar and avoid the subject at hand.
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Michael Costanza (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:34pm

Re: Re: Re: reporting
My point? You said that Techdirt is "not real code" because it's Wordpress. It's not. Never was. I thought that, you being a genius and all, it might satisfy your intellectual curiosity to know something about the actual origins of the code. So my point was to add a spark to your already brilliant light. But, um, never mind.
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Leigh Beadon (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:34pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
kind of like randomly bringing up the Lorentz Transformation to avoid the subject at hand?

(btw, you spelled Einstein wrong too)
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:34pm

Re: Re: reporting
tell you what, get you IT staff, or someone with intelligence involved first, then we can discuss your interests..

switching to German IP...
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Leigh Beadon (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
uh-oh, someone found the Save Page function in Internet Explorer! Import that shit to a word document bro
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
good, very good, but for the dupes in the world, impelling, for others, not so much. u know, rooting your site was easy, and yes, it is based on a bastdardized version of wordpress, hence the slight to your IT krew, but absconding me of being ill-informed is outright funny.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
sorry, i mispelled einstein, thats your arguement? let me mispel other wrds, that shld gve you compuction.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:43pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
i think it recalcitrant of you to attack my authenticity, thats fine, small minds do not understand much.
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Leigh Beadon (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:43pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
good, very good, but for the dupes in the world, impelling, for others, not so much. u know, rooting your site was easy, and yes, it is based on a bastdardized version of wordpress, hence the slight to your IT krew, but absconding me of being ill-informed is outright funny.

holy shit i've been arguing with one of those random-word spambots this whole time...
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:44pm

Re: Re: reporting
this started as an expression of personal beliefs, not a problem or an answer, both of which seem to emanate from here.
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
now who is extending their abilities?
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
btw, im on macs =]
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
again, i revert to my initial post, Marcus, when motivated, you can be great, but your still an underachiever, subverting my frond is simply trolling.

sucks to be stupid, eh?
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
satisfy your vanity how you must. =]
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 3:53pm

ran out of arguments?
well?
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 4:01pm

aww, how cute, he pretends to be the anti establishment type, but then wants to censor anyone who says something he doesn't agree with
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surfer (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 4:08pm

honestly
Mr. Masnick, your do-boys are boring me, marcus can post as Leigh why? and your other tools? not sure I understand the motivation here, perhaps your on tour and you leave these monkeys in charge, its possible. ive written for many blogs over the years, long before your time, but that is irrelevant, some of your trained monkeys seem to think i am some threat to them, well the truth hurts sometimes.

honestly, I think they are out of their league to deal with an asshole like myself, but that's ok too. you can't blame stupid for being stupid, so i can understand. you have a rose colored view of the internet, and try as you might, it will never expand beyond that..like i said, stop trying to disprove the intelligence of those you don't understand. the 'net is something you don't understand yet. someday, but not this day.
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Ian (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 4:11pm

I'm downloading the app today
I don't know about you, but I think this app is going to be awesome. I've got a few thousand cute cat pictures that are just begging for an audience, and now the London police have volunteered. Each and every picture of my wuggums is going to have to be personally enjoyed by some nice policeman, to be sure he's not a riotous thug (my wuggums would never do anything like that).

And I know that they might very much like to meet Wuggums, or his charming owner, but I'm afraid we live too far away for personal visits (or extradition).

Oh, and I've got a really pesky boil on my behind that I've been meaning to get checked out. A doctor's really expensive and you have to make an appointment... a police officer's almost as good, right? Better send them a few hundred pictures to be sure they've got a good angle.

I think it's really sweet of the London police service to volunteer to provide this helpful service. I'd say more, but Wuggums made a sick on the carpet, and I just have to share it with the nice bobbies.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 4:27pm

Re: ran out of arguments?
I got a lot of laughs out of your previous thread with Leigh and Michael. Thanks!
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Dark Helmet (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 5:26pm

My god....
This is the single greatest Techdirt thread of all time....
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 6:14pm

I am very skeptical about systems that put people in the spotlight without giving the public any back ground on the why that person is wanted for.

The public should be asked to help of course, but they also should be given the information to actually decide if they want to help or not, without that the system will eventually suffer loss of credibility when inevitably somebody tries to screw somebody because they just don't like the guy.
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Nick Dynice (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 6:36pm

This program and its company sounds like a new hack target for Anonymous.
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Nick Dynice (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 6:46pm

Re:
This comment was regarding Facewatch, the topic of the post. I just read through these other off topic comments, and well, no comment.
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Gwiz (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 8:29pm

Re: My god....
I agree.

Reading Techdirt comments is like watching NASCAR. Most of the time it cruses right along, but every once in awhile you get a really speculator crash and burn...
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Gwiz (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 8:43pm

Re: Re: My god....
err... *spectacular

(--- some under the breath mumbling about "stupid spell check" here ---)
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That One Guy (profile), 28 Jun 2012 @ 8:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Time ♫ Is on my Side
I'm not sure any rational military would be willing to turn those on citizens though, for purely practical/tactical reasons if nothing else.

Think about it, as long as they stuck to the 'normal' low-grade weapons, then there would still be plenty of people who would sit on the sidelines, not really willing to join either group. Soon as they whip out the big guns though... suddenly it would be much more likely that those that were neutral beforehand would be willing to join the fighting, which would drastically change the odds.
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surfer (profile), 29 Jun 2012 @ 12:08am

Re: Re: ran out of arguments?
welcome :)
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surfer (profile), 29 Jun 2012 @ 12:11am

Re: Re: Re: My god....
nicht jeder spricht Englisch :)
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surfer (profile), 29 Jun 2012 @ 12:30am

Re:
pretending is like, an opinion, and opinions are like assholes, you have one, and really don't need another one.

as for censorship, isn't that the same thing you want in ACTA/SOPA/NDAA/PIPA/Patriot Act? and i think there is a very long thread here somewhere about the difference between 'this post was flagged by the community..' and censorship, you should read it, i did...ich sch�tze, der ist von den dummen Amerikanern zu erwarten was,
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2012 @ 4:06am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reporting
For a IQ of 162 you're pretty fucking stupid.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2012 @ 4:45am

Re:
"This program and its company sounds like a new hack target for Anonymous."

lol

How long do you reckon, before we'll be asked to identify leading heads of government establishments?

My warped mind can imagine....

BBC Newsflash
The manhunt for Barrack Obama intensifies, if you have any information leading up to his location, please do not not hesitate to get in contact with the local autority.
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Gwiz (profile), 29 Jun 2012 @ 5:54am

Re: Re: Re: Re: My god....
nicht jeder spricht Englisch :)

That's true. Personally I only know three languages - English, really bad English and Pig Latin.

Avehay away icenay ayday!
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Ninja (profile), 29 Jun 2012 @ 6:39am

When I saw the scroll bar I thought 'holy shiet, this article was much more commented than I'd expect'..

More than half of the comments is about a non-existent issue with the rating buttons.

Please TD, add a way to rate the comment section as a whole for an article and add the WTF?! button. Thanks ;)

Now on topic: if you tell the population it's for the children, to catch terrorist or any other fearmongering catch phrase of the century they'll blissfully cooperate. Sad but true. Thankfully, with all the awareness being raised on the importance of privacy and free speech these types of excuses for eroding our rights will slowly stop working. But how much damage will have been done by the time we actually start reacting?
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relghuar, 29 Jun 2012 @ 7:09am

sweet childhood memories
Such nostalgia! I've been quite young at the time, but I can still remember the good old times behind iron curtain, when each apartment block had its assigned neighbor, designed to report anyone's misbehavior to the secret police. We've all felt so safe and protected back then... I can't wait to have that again, only made even better by all the wonderful new technology!
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2012 @ 7:43am

I don't see much difference between this, and the 'top ten most wanted' here. The difference is that there is an app for it. And the people aren't criminals for sure.
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John Fenderson (profile), 29 Jun 2012 @ 9:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Time ♫ Is on my Side
I'm not sure any rational military would be willing to turn those on citizens though, for purely practical/tactical reasons if nothing else

History disagrees with you. The military does not decide who the enemy is, politicians do.
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That One Guy (profile), 29 Jun 2012 @ 2:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Time ♫ Is on my Side
Right, silly me I forgot who actually decides where the guns get pointed at, and it's not the people who actually know anything about strategy...
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FuzzyDuck, 1 Jul 2012 @ 3:45pm

Re: Re:
....there's of course a reason they leave that information out. If they ever had to add it, it would be trumped up charges.

Besides this also smacks of the makings of a fear campaign: look at all the "bad" people that are out there.
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