Nearly 50,000 People Ask Why The Government Is Seizing Their Digital Files
from the speak-out dept
The folks at Demand Progress today filed a brief in one part of the ongoing Megaupload case: the fight over users being able to get their files back. The DOJ is trying to block this, while also wanting the evidence destroyed. The MPAA says it is okay with data being returned... if there is a 100% guarantee that no infringing works are accessed (an impossibly high standard). The Demand Progress filing points out that this whole thing flies in the face of being innocent until proven guilty, and argues that users who are non-parties to the lawsuit should have access to their files.Related to this, Demand Progress has also put together a petition, asking people to sign on to support a user's right to his or her own files -- and against the government just magically taking files out of the cloud:
As I write this, the petition appears to have just short of 50,000 signatures, and the number is increasing rapidly... The Internet vs. HollywoodOne day after the Internet staged a massive blackout to protest Congress's Internet censorship legislation (SOPA/PIPA), the United States responded by seizing millions of ordinary user files hosted on the popular website Megaupload.com.
With an aim of shutting down Megaupload and other Cloud-based hosting services (like Dropbox, YouTube or even your email provider), the government is trying to claim website operators should face decades in prison for the misdeeds of some of their users. But while they pursue trumped up criminal charges against the companies' founders, they are shutting down dozens of websites, and leaving ordinary Internet users without any way of retrieving their files.
Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak called the case against Megaupload a "threat to innovation." Wozniak likened the Megaupload site to a highway and those who shared pirated movies and songs to speeding motorists. "You don't just shut down the whole street because somebody is speeding," he said.
Numerous laws on the books already give copyright holders plenty of avenues to stop actual infringement, but that's not enough to satisfy Hollywood's lawyers and lobbyists. The prosecutor in the case, Neil MacBride, previously served as the Anti-Piracy Vice President of the Business Software Alliance, where he represented the intellectual property interests of countless multinational corporations.
Now Hollywood's lobbyists, represented by the Motion Picture Association of America, want him to make it nearly impossible for ordinary Internet users to get their property back.
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Filed Under: congress, data, doj, hollywood, petition, pipa, sopa
Companies: megaupload, mpaa
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No "Country" box, just a ZIP one?
Hey guys, let's be serious for a moment...
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Petitions are sort of the ultimate way for the minority to act like they are a big deal. With (according to Kimdotcom himself) 150 million users, 50k isn't really a significant number of users affected, is it? It certainly wouldn't show significant non-infringing uses for the site.
Remember, you can argue all you like - the seizures will in the end stand and that will be that.
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What I still don't get
OK, so suppose I operate a monthly parking lot. One day, the cops tell me that they're pretty sure a stolen car is parked in my lot. So they lock the gates and proceed to airlift all of the cars out to a holding location while they determine if they're stolen or not. Meanwhile, all my PAYING customers want their cars back, but I can't give it to them. All because they think I might have known one of the cars was stolen (but they don't know which ones).
Then you tell me the storage lot you dragged numerous, non-stolen cars to is too expensive, and so they might just blow up the cars or sell them off or whatever, but my customers who broke no laws can't have them back, in case they MIGHT be stolen (though, it'd be too hard to check, cuz there's all those numbers!).
Just because it's digital doesn't mean no laws on due process or prior restraint apply. If it did, why are we having all these arguments around "intellectual property" laws in the first place?
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Getting 50k signatures in less than a day is a big deal no matter what.
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Mr. Anonymous Shill knows this, and is terrified.
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Re: What I still don't get
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On this site you're the minority.
(and in the wider world too!)
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Re: What I still don't get
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America Must Declare War...
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condensed clouds
As important as the issue is, i'm troubled that doomed petitioning seems to be an appropriate reminder of the extent of available recourse at the moment.
Condensed clouds contain only 1 ppt to 1 ppb silver by mass.
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We the People
Or start petitioning the media companies to start covering this story. Doesn't CNN have that "iReport" gimmick? Use that. But a petition only works if someone has agreed to listen to it, otherwise you're just yelling at the sky.
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Shilling is sort of the ultimate way for the minority to act like they are a big deal. With hundreds daily comments, half a dozen isn't really a significant number, is it?
Remember, you can argue all you like - the common sense will prevail and that will be that.
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Re: What I still don't get
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Re: Re: What I still don't get
Fair enough
But what if most of the cars in the lot were'nt stolen?
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Re: condensed clouds
I am missing your point about the clouds though. Looking for a silver lining?
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Re: What I still don't get
I operate a monthly parking lot. One day the police tell me it is possible that one or more of the cars in the lot was printed on a 3D printer. They then confiscate the entire parking lot.
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Re: Re: What I still don't get
But what if most of the cars in the lot were capable of flight?
But what if most of the cars in the lot were rentals?
Wow - it IS easy to make up totally useless questions with no facts to back them up. Who knew?
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Re: Re: condensed clouds
What mostly bothered me was specifically the fact that the signature list looked about as legitimate as something made as a joke.
Here we're watching an institution of criminals crushing privacy, innovation, and civil liberties. I look around and i see a disinterested or uninformed general public. I look to the names of those who recognize the threat and it appears they're just clowning for teh lulz.
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If you use, watch, listen to anything on the internet this effects you.
Doesn't really matter if you use megaupload or not.
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Re: petitions
There are not many avenues available for protest anymore.
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Re: condensed clouds
Petitions work if the number is big enough.
Sure 50k people sounds small but 50k people in a few hours isn't that small.
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Re: We the People
Demand Progress aren't the only people doing petitions and other things on this and many other issues, just cause this article only tells you about one doesn't mean there is only one.
There are many non profit organizations that lobby in courtrooms for the people in America and country's across the world every day.
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Re: We the People
Like this one?
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120609/00050419257/tell-white-house-to-stop-illegally-seizing -shutting-down-websites.shtml
The people signing the other one should look at this one too. It's only open for a few more days.
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Re: Re: We the People
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petition/shut-down-operation-our-sites/s0J pVcgp?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl
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Re: We the People
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There is no certainty that the seizure will stand up. The seizures in New Zealand have already been ruled illegal for instance.
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Re: Re: What I still don't get
Real classy hollyweird and ICE, real classy.
Screw the excitable boys in the NZ police who went along with this crap, not even bothering to ensure the drastic actions they were taking were premised on a valid warrant.
Fancy having armed people illegally raid your home, terrorizing your pregnant wife and your unfortunate nanny. Dispicable.
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Orwellian
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Most of us non-Americans wouldn't even know where to BEGIN when it comes to filing legal complaints internationally, against the US government, for their actions in New Zeeland.
Nice that someone is trying to rally some support for this, but it's a shame all non-US victims are left out in the cold.
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One message, with international cooperation, its not really feasable for us to petition individually, as support will be all over the place, too many individual countries, but in this instance you have a perfect opportunity for all countries to poll in their support in one unified manner, on things we believe will actually go somewhere, if it went our way...........i reckon its a wasted opportunity that the international crowd doesnt get a say in these things, if only to express our opinion on the matter, by the numbers, hopefully, huge one *shrug*
When i say america, i mean the corrupted
Ok, that one turned onto a ramble...........again.....enjoy .........the other comments
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Re: We the People
i think i'd rather see confirmed numbers from an unbiased site first, to get a genereal estimation on the numbers we should expect going to the government site
call me a pessimist, but dont call me shirley
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I'm just one guy, I don't have a multi-thousand person mailing list like Demand Progress. I'd still like it to get enough signatures for the petition to be noticed.
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Demand Progress: "We submit this petition of concerned International persons to the court."
Court: hmm it seems over 3million humans are quite concerned with this case.
DoJ: Your honour, we class all those people as terrorists since they are trying to tell us the God Loving USofAAAAAAAA what to do. We hereby request under National Security all those names to place on a watch list and also can now show the court that this 'evidence" must be destroyed becuase otherwise would be the USA submitting to terroristic demands. Hooah!
Court: *slightly scared and worried of the black hatted gentlemen who now appear in the gallery* "welll.. ummm. quite... the DoJ is correct. Case dismissed"
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No, and you especially don't then proceed to seize and try to destroy the cars of all the people who happened to be driving there when it was shut down.
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If non-Americans really want to make a difference, instead of trying to find ways to add there voices to a petition of a US court (which will mostly ignore the will of Americans, much less non-Americans) they should focus more of putting in place government officials who won't simply roll over the first time the Us says heel.
Of course if Americans would stop pretending that 98% of both the Republicans and Democrats in this country could care less about the people and only for the corporate interests maybe the US won't be the world's biggest bully.
On, and it's not the "internet vs Holywood", it's the people vs. Hollywood. The internet couldn't care a crap about what Hollywood does.
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the government "took" nothing, remember it isn't "theft", as it isn't real, they are an infinitely copyable digital product, the government didn't stop you from selling/posting your infinitly copyable digital product
and having "rights" to your files???? I didn't think Mike thought you had "rights" to an infinitely copyable digital product
that was why you liked piracy and supported file sharing was culture, NOW you agree that people should have "rights" over their infinitely copyable digital product, and should not have their "rights" violated????
wow, hows your own medicine taste?? you flip faster than obama on raising our taxes
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Actually, that's exactly what they did. They seized the only remaining copies of Goodwin's (not Mike's) personal data. That data was literally taken: the government taking possession of it means that Goodwin doesn't have it anymore. If the government merely made copies of the data (e.g. for evidence), then we would be having a different discussion.
The rest is just straw man arguments and slander. Mike never once said infinitely copyable digital products aren't "real," nor has he ever said nobody has (or should have) rights to it.
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You sir are delusional.
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Abuse of Irony
Additionally, I use(d) MU for Android rooting files and themes, to share and as a kind of Dropbox account (in case messing around w/ my phone was more interesting than working while at work).
The irony of ICE/MPAA stealing my files that were on Megaupload (actually stealing, not copying) in response to alleged threat is so overwhelming to me that it creates a taste of raw spinach and old pennies in my mouth.
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Your position seems to be that infinitely copyable files are capable of being stolen when it's the 'entertainment' industry making the accusations, but they aren't capable of being stolen if it's a citizen making the accusation.
I swear, that 'H' word is just on the tip of my tongue, if only I could remember what it was...
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a whole 'nearly 50,000' (but not quite)..
How nearly ???
and what percentage of that is it of the total users of the internet ??
0.00000000000000000000001%
Nice try at 'spin' but as usual you miss the mark by a long shot !!!...
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I bet not many (or any) of them..
So your heading, Masnick, as usual, IS A LIE..
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No legalising without representation!
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I can't see where (in this thread) Karl places any suggestion of a viewpoint that aligns with the statements you claim.
It is of course possible to steal/thieve data from an entertainment provider, if you take physical possession of the data holding media of the data you are stealing.
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Setting comments to 'Threaded' instead of 'Flattened' helps avoid those kind of confusions.
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Re: Re: Re: What I still don't get
The Aramoana massacre, guy went on a rampage and shot up most of a small community... And we didn't get that level of police response.
Sickening to watch my country sink to this kind of action.
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