Movie Showing How Music Can Help Dementia Patients Held Up... By The Difficulty In Licensing The Music
from the depressing dept
My grandfather passed away at 96-years-old just last year. While he remained "with it" for quite some time, in the last few years of his life, he suffered from pretty serious dementia. So, a few months ago, when I saw this somewhat viral video of a dementia patient in a nursing home suddenly being "revived" by listening to the music he grew up with, it was really quite amazing. I just wished I'd been able to test that out with my grandfather earlier. If you haven't seen the video, it's worth checking out (especially if you've ever had to deal with a loved one suffering from dementia):In this case, in particular, it appears that they're basically locking up this entire film, unless they can raise $50,000. That's not how copyright is supposed to work. The video explanation of what the filmmaker is trying to do is great, but the fact that it's copyright holding things up just seems really disturbing (he explains that's the issue about five minutes into the video):
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Filed Under: dementia, documentary, licensing, music
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Copyright isn't supposed to secure exclusive rights, i.e., the right to exclude? Whatever you say, Pirate Mike.
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Works like this film
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Works like this film
Yes, copyright grants an exclusive, marketable right to encourage the dissemination of works. These works are available in the marketplace. You guys just don't like the price. But it's obviously up to the rightholder to set his own price. And the rightholder can even refuse to license the work if he wants to. This is an example of copyright working exactly as it is intended to. A rightholder is exercising exclusive rights. If they want to a license to use the works, they have to pay for the rights. Just like the Framers intended.
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ie Rightsholders are mean and unpleasant people who would rather see dementia patients and their carers suffer than give up a tiny part of their control.
Thank you for clarifying that point.
Perhaps when you are older and find yourself suffering from dementia - or caring for someone who does then you might realise how nasty your current attitude is.
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This is sort of a Nina Paley problem - they made a movie but ignored the cost of the raw materials. When it comes time to actually release it, they realize that they cannot do it until the pay for the raw materials.
It's normal business - except for people who think that everything is free.
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The question becomes: What if you put up an open pricing structure and shied away from the backdoor dealings?
You might end up with a wider use of your copyright, but it is stands to reason that the road to use of the copyright is far less frustrating.
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One factor at work here is that many copyright owners operate under the theory that their works are worth whatever price tag they put on them. If they offer this guy a $500 license instead of a $2500 one, they're declaring the work to be worth that much. To charge less is to "devalue" the work, as no one will then be willing to pay more. This belief is quite common among gatekeepers and creators alike.
Another factor is the hope that at any moment, someone who can afford the higher fee might come knocking. This is why Chuck Berry wants $20 million if you play 20 seconds of "Johnny B. Goode" on TV. He clearly is not interested in wider use of his work. He regards it as a lottery ticket.
Berry aside, most business-savvy copyright owners who want to exploit their works know they need to find a "sweet spot" in license pricing, where the cost is low enough that the work does get licensed on occasion, but not so low that the work has diminished perceived value or that the higher number of licenses doesn't compensate for the reduced price.
There's also the notion of a going rate: creators often feel they've somehow been cheated if their work doesn't go for roughly the same amount charged for comparable works. The big publishing houses and record labels tend to be more pragmatic and strategic in their pricing and will drop the price when it works to their advantage. But in the music world, the publishers are often corporate fronts for the musicians themselves, and expectations are skewed accordingly. They'll stubbornly insist on higher rates, simply because they feel they deserve the same treatment as their peers; they don't want to be regarded as being in the "budget" class.
Lastly, along those same lines, they especially don't want to accidentally license something for cheap and then find that the way the work gets used is not to their liking. They figure, probably correctly, that the lower price they charge, the more likely the work will be exploited in ways that qualitatively cheapen it. If the film turns out to be crap, they don't want their work to be associated with it. In their view, a higher fee helps to minimize this risk.
For most copyright owners, these factors all outweigh arguments about all the public good and wider use that would result from more-reasonable license fees and exceptions for clearly noble uses of their work, such as this film. I'm not saying I agree with it, or that it's in touch with reality, just that it's still the prevailing point of view.
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Remember, wider exposure isn't everyone's goal. There is no obligation in copyright to share, any more than there is an obligation to share your house with anyone who might show up looking for a place to sleep at a reasonable price.
It's their choice.
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Oh, well, that's much better!
"There is no obligation in copyright to share, any more than there is an obligation to share your house with anyone who might show up looking for a place to sleep at a reasonable price."
Analogy fail: real property =/= imaginary property (hint: that's why it's called imaginary property, because it's not real. But you either already know this and choose to ignore it or you are incredibly thick.)
Care to try again?
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Hmm. Nope. If it was they wouldn't crying about piracy all the time.
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You are a victim of yellow journalism again - complete with graphical content.
Mike wants you to focus on the "suffering" of a few, while at the same time wanting you to ignore whatever pain might be inflicted on others as a result.
Re-framed, do you think the copyright holder should give up their rights because of a single dementia patient? Would you like to give up your rights to drive your car because one person on your block is bothered by the noise?
I guess Mike can add "Think about the dementia patients!" to his list of canned refrains.
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So, yes.I would want th asshole with the loud car to keep it quiet. If you get too many tickets, you lose the right to drive.that's just how it works.
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Ignoring delusions of things that don't exist is generally a good policy.
Over and over and over again, we have asked for proof of harm for copyright infringement. Real, quantifiable, evidence of harm.
That you have never shown any tells us all we need to know.
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If under the law they can charge for the rights to use their music in other ways (such as movies), and suddenly you can you can no longer do that, is there not harm caused? Are they not economically hurt?
Further, what happens if the music is used in relation to something the writer, composer, or performer specifically does not agree with? Imagine a Vegan's music used to sell McDonalds burgers, or a pacifist's music used in a documentary about nuclear weapons or highly violent video games. Is there not harm there by their being forced to be part of something they don't want to be part of?
It's been told to you over and over again - you just fail to listen.
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So point to a specific example. Clear, quantifiable, evidence of harm. Not theoretical potential profits. If it is so simple, then do so.
We're waiting.
We have dozens of specific examples of copyright directly harming people individually and society as a whole. We have multiple studies with clear and open methodolgy and verifiable data showing these are not outliers. You have shown no specific examples or verifiable data supporting your position. If you have, please point me to it.
If all you want to do is talk theoretical potential profits, then allow me to rebut with a few potential profit streams the music industry is missing out on through their own incompetence:
- Setting up an easy to use licensing system for all their works, and charging small amounts for personal videos, documentaries, and such could generate all sorts of profits.
- Lowering licensing costs to streaming providers, and stop suing or sabotaging them, such as Grooveshark, Spotify, and other such services would encourage more services and more people to use them, generating enormous potential profits.
Further, what happens if the music is used in relation to something the writer, composer, or performer specifically does not agree with?
There is nothing stopping the writer/artist/composer coming out publicly against the things he/she disagrees with. It is actually pretty stupid for a business or politician to use a work for promotional without making sure that the artist would support it for just this very reason. It ends up looking very bad for that business, and giving the artist a nice tall pedestal and audience to rant against whatever the business was trying to promote.
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Giving someone the permission to use your song without violating a copyright does not:
a) Let them use it for whatever purposes they want to
b) Stop other people from having the ability to pay you for using it as well
In addition, your phrasing, "bothered by the noise", is in poor taste given the subject of the article you've commented on. Good job both missing the point completely and being such an incompassionate human being.
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Something being lawful is different than it being moral, economically stimulating/useful, or acceptable by society.
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Err, no.
Copyright was originally intended to be for a limited time, after which time the copyrighted work would enter the public domain. But with the constant retroactive expansion of term length, this no longer applies.
At the time, it would take days just to get a small amount of information, such as a letter or book, from one end of the country to another by the fastest means possible, a horse carrying a courier. Now we can move that same information farther in fractions of a second, or the entire contents of the Library of Congress in minutes.
At the time, it cost an enormous amount of resources to publish a book and distribute it. This can now be done at little cost by anyone with the time to write something.
"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea,"
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Isaac McPherson (1813)
"But grants of this sort can be justified in very peculiar cases only, if at all; the danger being very great that the good resulting from the operation of the monopoly, will be overbalanced by the evil effect of the precedent; and it being not impossible that the monopoly itself, in its original operation, may produce more evil than good."
James Madison, “Monopolies, Perpetuities, Corporations, Ecclesiastical Endowments” (1819)
Just as the framers intended, eh?
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Works like this film"
Umm, no, it's not. Copyright is suppose to get more artists to create NEW works. It wasn't specifically created to encourage re-use.
If you want to encourage re-use, you get rid of copyright. The issue there is that the cure is worse than the cause, with artist discouraged from making NEW work, while re-use reaches a new high.
Would you like to eat nothing but yesterday's leftovers for the rest of your life?
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There would be no licencing costs if this was still the case.
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Thanks for playing :)
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You and your entire evil soulless cabal will suffer painfully, horribly and eternally in hell.
You are fucking dead, shitbag.
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You and your entire evil soulless cabal will suffer painfully, horribly and eternally in hell.
You are fucking dead, shitbag.
Forget the meds today?
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Want me to link to dozens of comments from *you* that are that and worse?
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Can you explain to the class how this would be disrespecting anyone's privacy?
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So you admit that actually identifying the bile you've inflicted on this site would make you look like the obnoxious hypocrite you are? That merely linking to your own comments is enough to discredit you? Nice of you to be honest for once.
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Pointing out your long history of being a complete douchebag does not disrespect your privacy. No one knows who you are. They just would confirm that you mocking that commenter makes you the biggest hypocrite seen around these parts.
That seems like useful information that does not touch on a single personally identifiable characteristic.
But I will note that you don't deny that your comments were worse than the commenter above. Confirming what everyone knew: you can't help but be a total douchebag. Thanks.
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You said: "In this case, in particular, it appears that they're basically locking up this entire film, unless they can raise $50,000. That's not how copyright is supposed to work."
I responded that this is exactly how copyright is supposed to work. Copyright is supposed to give people the right to exclude. You, of course, and as always, haven't actually addressed this point.
Let's talk about that. I know you won't though, 'cause you know that what you said is complete bullshit.
You always run away from the debate. You always try and change the subject. You're doing it again here and now. The fact is, the reason I give you so much grief is because I know you are intentionally dishonest about copyright. Your statement, the one you refuse to defend or explain, is a great example. All you do is stomp your feet and try and chance the subject.
Why so scared?
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Which this isn't doing.
This isn't a post about scrapping copyright (no matter how you like to keep reading these articles and leaping to that conclusion), it's about how copyright is working against the idea of creating new content. Primarily because some people can't see the difference between price and value.
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"All you do is stomp your feet and try and chance the subject.
Why so scared?"
:-O PMSL! Have you not got any self-awareness at ALL?!
Also, are you the same guy/girl posting inane/insane comments over at Torrentfreak as well? Surely there is no way there can be two different people with this much moronic stupidity going around trying to refute nearly every other post with an almost gung ho attitude, and ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF other then their own opinion on the given subject.
I'm affraid that you are confusing us with people who can't actually look for this information ourselves without needing writers like Mike to point it out for us. Unlike you (obviously) i research multiple sources before making my mind up on any given subject. Nowadays, only the uninterested and gulible are unable to find the correct information for whatever subject interests them the most.
But please don't stop. Between this comment tread and the one over at TF i just spent an amusing 30 mins. :-)
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You mean like Universal, who have a numer of lawsuits about their contractual obligations to artists?
You mean like Lucasarts, whose entire business model demands that they re-release their biggest three films, yet still hasn't properly paid residuals to its defining acting performance?
Yeah, Mike's the hater here, ofc!
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Must be why I highlights tons of artists making money and celebrate when they do.
For you to call me an artist hater is flat out ridiculous and anyone who can read (apparently not you) can tell that it's ridiculous.
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But he does in fact say good things about artists that have let go of the notion they need a granted monopoly to survive in the market.
To me he is doing more to help artists find a way to not only cope with "piracy" but also thrive in the face of it, making use of it to make some money, on the other hand we have you, that running about everytime somebody copies something, like a dog chasing wheels, it will never catch it, and even if he does it probably hurt him,
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We are not pirates fucktard and we are waiting for said tons of articles.
I am however going to download something whether I want to watch it or not in honor of your bullshit every time you flap your gums without facts. Now we can blame piracy on failed, deprecated business models AND YOU.
Nigel
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That's an impressively emotional list, but none of them are actually examples of hating anything, much less artists. Perhaps if you weren't so ridiculously hyperbolic in your claims you might get taken a bit more seriously.
"If you really didn't hate artists, you wouldn't run the biggest pirate-apologist blog on the planet."
Or you could just double down on the hyperbole. Yeah, that'll work...
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Go on then, link away. I'll bet you that you can't find one that doesn't have some other legitimate interpretation that your single-minded idiot brain has chosen to ignore.
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Explaining how exercising their gov't granted monopoly privileges won't help them grow their fanbase or help them make more money seems like a way to HELP them adapt to the future so they can make more money by NOT BEING A DICK to their fans.
I guess it doesn't surprise me that you can't understand this concept.
You hate artists by running a blog where you incessantly demean people who disagree with your alternative ideas.
This from someone who's never posted a single comment here without insulting those who disagree with you? Spare me.
Are your comments sections bursting with thank you's from all the artists who think you've got their backs? Nope.
You should see my email. You'd be surprised. Of course, lots of people don't jump in the comments because they point to total jackasses like you and wonder why they'd want to bother arguing with people who clearly don't get it.
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Noticeably, you make no comment about the fact that your comments sections are teeming with pirates. Funny how you don't deny or explain that. But you and I both know why that is: You've established a very pirate friendly place here, Pirate Mike.
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Twat.
Maybe this is a pirate-friendly place, but maybe that's because the people like you are in the minority and most people are happy to have a sensible debate without a load of pointless abuse?
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Just a friendly reminder.
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Yes it is, but only insofar as it promotes the progress of science and the useful arts. When the exclusivity is impeding said progress, as it is in this case, then you've got the tail wagging the dog.
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Promoting the progress has never meant that would-be licensees can just do whatever they want with the copyrighted work. The Framers intended that the progress would be promoted BY GRANTING THE RIGHT TO EXCLUDE. You need to look at the big picture. These works, the ones that the filmmakers want to license, are such valuable property that they cost thousands of dollars to license. Wow. Copyright created some really great works! And when they fall into the public domain, filmmakers can do whatever they want with them. This is exactly the copyright system the Framers envisaged. Techdirt tries to rewrite history and pretend like copyright benefits the public first, foremost, and only. But that's not the truth. It's intentionally misleading lies from a semi-closeted, piratical propagandist.
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"Copyright" never "created" anything, unless you consider "headache" and "pain in the ass" a "creation".
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Interestingly people created a whole wealth of stuff before copyright came along and would continue to do so if it stopped tomorrow.
Being as you're on a bit of a constitutional rant this evening, would you agree or disagree that the current length of copyright (and the fact that it continues post death) still meets the desires of the Framers?
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Of course, those same writers, artists and actors are getting wise to the ways of "the business", are tired of being shafted and are fighting back using the law (i.e. suing) to punish the lawbreakers (RIAA/MPAA/EMI/Harlequin Enterprises Limited/etc...) for their contracted share of the profits, or haven't you been keeping up with Mike's very informative posts lately?
P.S. Your original paragraph needed a few corrections. Here is what I would suggest it say:
"People created the very works that these filmmakers want to use. The works are price so damn high that corporate thugs demand $50,000 just to use them. That's outrageous. Thanks, soon to be dead business model. Another nail in the coffin for Clause 8. Cracks me up how anyone can claim that copyright ever creates anything.(period), but then companies are willing to break the law just to steal copyrighted works created by people. The stuff people create is so good that companies and corporations are willing to break contract law to screw a fellow human being over with "creative accounting practices", and yes, copyright didn't even create that.
That says it all."
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Holy fuck. Can you please take an economics class before ever opening your mouth again?
I could charge you $50,000 to comment here. That does not mean that my barrier actually created $50,000 in value. And, even more importantly, claiming that copyright gets the credit for the creation is wrong.
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Or are you like the idiots that cross the street that only look to one side and ignores the other side?
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Your face needs to meet your desk. Repeatedly. Until you get the MBA/MAFIAA brainwashing out of that huge melon on top of your neck and start acting like a human being rather than another of big business' corporate vampires.
Not even Picard could facepalm enough for this.
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Plain sophistics in action and on repeat. Copyright doesn't create. Artists do.
Just like hating major corporations abuse does not equate to hating artists, as another frequent false syllogism.
At best copyright would enable creation. If it really worked as intended and hadn't so much been hijacked by the larger corporations over-obsessed with how much financial value the "property" is.
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Yet you accuse the people on this site of being "anti-artist," when you won't even properly attribute the creator of an artistic work!
YOU, sir, are anti-artist.
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Notice the part I bolded: "to allow the public access to the products of their genius after the limited period of exclusive control has expired." Pirate Mike pretends like the public should get all the benefits up front while the work is under copyright. That has never been the way copyright works. Nor was it ever "supposed" to work that way.
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Which is never these days, thanks to regular copyright extension. So, you are admitting that copyright today does not benefit the public and thus is not Constitutional.
Thanks for proving the point.
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Life + 75 years is limited LoL
Lets have you get paid after life + 75 years and see if you think that timeframe is limited.
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Your definition of unlimited has gone well beyond any reasonable definition of the word in this context. It's absurd to think any creator needs life+70 to both encourage future work and make a living. I'd love to see you explain exactly how such a ridiculously long time is needed, and why it needs to be so much longer than was originally intended.
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Bullshit. Almost nothing has entered the public domain in the US in years and it won't happen until most of us are dead. That's not limited.
Just because the court got it wrong doesn't mean it's actually limited. Your problem is that you're such a homer for law and order you have no sense of reality. It's no way to go through life.
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LOL! Yes, since the CRA and the CTEA were enacted, some works have had their copyrights extended. So what? It's still for a limited, finite time. This argument is so dumb, and has been so forcefully rejected by the courts, that I can't believe you're even trying to make the argument. I helped someone negotiate a 99-year lease a few weeks ago. That lease will expire after me and everyone else who was there is dead. But that doesn't mean the lease is unlimited. Your argument is just desperate. Shall I quote the Court on the issue?
Just because the court got it wrong doesn't mean it's actually limited. Your problem is that you're such a homer for law and order you have no sense of reality. It's no way to go through life.
It's not wrong. Life + 70 is a finite, limited amount of time. You're just too intellectually dishonest to even admit this. It's funny how you complain that I'm such a slave to the law. What a cop out. It's no surprise though that someone like you, who disagrees with copyright law as a religion, would hang onto the argument. Apparently you don't know what "limited" means. Shall I quote the dictionary?
This is just sad and stupid, Pirate Mike. And I'm still waiting for you to explain how this isn't how copyright is supposed to work. Can you not even try to defend that statement? I guess not. I hope all your readers can see that you don't have any valid arguments, and when called out in the comments, you offer no substantive arguments that pass the laugh test. No wonder you won't debate me: You can't.
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Sure you can endure that little time can't you?
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No one can debate against a mentally disturbed person, you just end up fucked in the head like them.
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I am no fan of the 1978 change to the length of copyright necessitated by the US's agreement to accede to the Berne Convention and its progeny, all in the name of international harmonization, but to say that the court got it wrong is a declarative statement without backup. It bears repeating that Mr. Lessig's arguments did not carry the day before the court by a 7-2 margin.
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Typical Pirate Mike. He won't back up the claim, but you know he'll certainly state it again and again as though it were a settled fact. When you don't have the law or facts on your side, you pound the table, right? He must be wearing through the finish on his desk, he pounds it so hard and so often.
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Possibly because it's been explained several times in this thread alone and is obvious to anyone with a functioning brain. Feel free to re-read if you still can't grasp it.
"When you don't have the law or facts on your side, you pound the table, right? He must be wearing through the finish on his desk, he pounds it so hard and so often."
I can see the work Mike's been putting into other articles and his other business work, so I'm sure he's not considering the childish ramblings of a fool who claims he's worng. What does your desk look like?
It's a damn shame that *this* is the level of discourse you're trying to maintain, and it's not helping your cause.
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Either way, that makes him a moron by that book, but getting a few more comments with the civility of a toddler helps undermine whatever point other people might be fooled into thinking he has.
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Pirate Mike is trying to make a constitutional law argument (that copyright violates the limited times restriction in Article I, Section 8, Clause 8), but he, of course, fails to mention that the Supreme Court has already decided that issue--and it's exactly the opposite of Mike's interpretation. Not too surprising--the law doesn't agree with Mike's views, so he pretends like the law doesn't exist when making legal arguments.
Funny how Pirate Mike ran off and refuses to have a substantive debate. I'll add this thread to my incredibly long list of bookmarks of comments sections where Mike ran away and stomped his feet.
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Please do.
Oh yes, and whilst you're adding this to your list, add it to the list of threads where you threw around a load of insults, spouted a load of bilge* and then didn't actually address any of the arguments raised against you but just repeated the same point again and again and again.
* can't get away from those pirate references hey?
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The argument that life + 70 years IS a perpetual amount of time, because they MIGHT extend it again (even though there's no evidence of any plan to do so, and the reason they did it last time (to harmonize with other nations) is no longer present) makes no sense
Yeah, it makes no sense... which is why they used that argument for an extension every fucking time they demanded for one.
You're a tard, average_joe.
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No, you really just repeated the same point over and over. You're not explaining why people should simply accept this aside from the fact that a few people decided everyone else should just roll over like dogs and take it.
I think it's pretty clear that you're the one harping on this validity without even bothering to think that other people might find it slightly bizarre.
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I don't give a crap what a court says, or whether "life + 70 years" is technically less than infinity. The fact is that if an author dies after I'm 8 years old, according to the average life expectancy in the US (78 years), I will never get to access that work in the public domain. For works that are deemed uncommercial, that means I *never* get to access those works. If a work is not available in the public domain while I'm alive, it may as well be infinite.
You'd possibly then argue that the public domain would be there to benefit later generations, but I don't trust you people not to extend it again and again, as you already have during my lifetime.
Now do you want to stop being an asshole and address the actual concerns, or are you just going to continue ignoring reality?
"Funny how Pirate Mike ran off and refuses to have a substantive debate."
You're yet to raise one. Do you want a list of the other threads where you've disappeared like the lying coward you are and refused to continue once proven utterly wrong about every argument you try to bring to the table, or are you scared of seeing how much of a hypocrite you are?
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Read the book "No Law" by Lange and Powell. Chapter 4 contains a complete dismantling of the majority ruling in Eldred and an explanation of how Ginsburg appears to have misunderstood almost every important issue at play.
I'm perfectly willing to admit that the Supreme Court doesn't think that there's anything wrong with copyright law today. But I think that anyone with any sense of REALITY knows that's ridiculous. And, as Lange and Powell demonstrate quite comprehensively, the basic legal concepts just don't add up in the Eldred decision.
The court got it wrong, and we all suffer because of it.
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I'm perfectly willing to admit that the Supreme Court doesn't think that there's anything wrong with copyright law today. But I think that anyone with any sense of REALITY knows that's ridiculous. And, as Lange and Powell demonstrate quite comprehensively, the basic legal concepts just don't add up in the Eldred decision.
The court got it wrong, and we all suffer because of it.
You point to a book that takes an extremist, absolutist view of the First Amendment as evidence of what? That someone made some counterarguments?
It's intellectually dishonest to state categorically that copyright law violates the "limited times" provision of the Constitution when that issue has been rejected by every court to ever consider it, including the Supreme Court. That copyright law does not violate the "limited times" provision is the law of the land. To go around claiming the opposite, without even mentioning the fact that what you're saying is contra to the actual law that is decided and res judicata, is the paragon of dishonesty.
The same goes for your trope about copyright not being property. You readily admit that copyright is property as the word property is used in the Constitution. To then say that copyright is not property, without any qualifications or explanations, is to intentionally mislead.
You're trying to make legal arguments (copyright is unconstitutional; copyright is not property), but purposefully ignoring and failing to mention the actual law. You seem to think that if you can find somebody, somewhere who makes an argument (even if that argument has been directly shot down by the courts and is an extremist, minority view), then you can claim that that argument is the way it actually is. That's like saying that African Americans aren't "persons" under the 14th Amendment, despite decades of jurisprudence to the contrary, because some guy wrote a book and argued the opposite.
I'm starting to understand why you won't ever have a legal debate and why you run away from discussions about your beliefs: They don't withstand any scrutiny, and all you're doing is intentionally lying to your readers to further your agenda. If you cared about having an open, human, and awesome debate, you'd acknowledge that the actual law is contra to your legal views when you make legal arguments. But being truthful and honest isn't your bag. All you care about is manipulating people to your way of thinking.
But, yeah, point to the "No Law" book that in its own preface admits that it's accurate to describe the book as "legal fantasy." Point to a book that takes extremist, minority views and pretend like those views are the only ones. And whatever you do, just keep ignoring the actual law when making your legal arguments. It's what all the manipulators are doing.
And keep on pretending like there's nothing morally wrong with piracy. That shows us all what you *really* think of artists.
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You ask why we would expect this to continue and we point you to every change in copyright law in the last 30 years.
Not once has that time-frame gone backwards.
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"There is no plan to expand it again." Really? You can guarantee that? So I can either take your word on this, or I can look at the behaviours of the content industry over the last 30 years. Hmmm.
You claim this is just to bring the US into line with the rest of the world, so if, in a couple of years time, the EU extends copyright to Life + 95 years, what then? More international obligations to be met at the expense of the public domain?
Surely you can see why people don't believe that this is the desired end-state for the content industries?
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You don't understand the difference between public domain and simply not enforcing draconian copyright? Figures, I suppose.
"Copyright is life + 70 years. That is a limited amount of time"
The life of a giant redwood is also limited. I wouldn't be planning my cultural heritage over when it dies of natural causes, though.
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This is true, I have no proof, but I have precedent: the 1790 Act, the 1831 Act, the 1909 Act, the 1962-74 acts, the 1976 act and the 1998 act.
The facts of what is happening is that copyright terms are being expanded with an increasing frequency.
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And don't get me wrong... It's OK to disagree with the majority view. I do so myself sometimes. The dishonest part is that he isn't forthright with the fact that he's expressing a dissenting view on a settled issue of law. If he argued some of the stuff he does in court as an attorney, he could be sanctioned. Why? Because it's dishonest.
Believe it or not I actually agree with Pirate Mike on several policy issues. It's his lies and manipulations that disgust me. And the incessant pirate-apologism, of course.
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Fantastic.
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Out of curiousity, do you accept that those who think copyright is out of kilter have resonable grounds to fear further expansion of both duration and coverage?
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Yes, the excesses of what was then the norm in Europe are now part of US law, but if I am inclined to point a finger it will be directed to the other side of the Atlantic.
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Your mentor Mr Lessig tried to run this sort of thing past the courts, and they pretty much unanimously shut it down - it's a non-starter. The "limited time" is not a hard number fixed in the constitution, it's something that the constitution specifically allows the Congress to set and adjust as they see fit.
Are you denying that there are works that have entered the public domain since the founding of the US?
It's a weak argument, one the courts have already killed off. Why do you keep trying to work with it? Get over it. The limited time is set by congress, and if they move the bar (either direction) it is the law of the land.
If they moved it tomorrow to 50 years, would you consider it the law of the land? Why would it be to the public's benefit at 50, but not at 75? What in that 25 years makes a really big difference for you?
Think about it: The works that come out today, even with only a 50 year copyright, would be in the public domain about the same time that you die. Would that benefit the public? Of course it would. It might not benefit you personally, but the laws weren't written to satisfy your short term personal needs. It's a longer term thing, played out over generations, not over a couple of hours.
Lessig tried to push this impatient view of copyright, and the courts told him to go away. Why do you keep trying to work this disproved theory?
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But there's a cultural point here as well in that culture shifts over time. There are things that could be done to something that's moved into the public domain that would have relevance 14 years after their original creation that will have no relevance at life +75 years.
Oh yes, and that nicely brings us back to that old sucker: how much content do dead people create?
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And what's stopping it from becoming "life + 70+++"? The whole reason why we have "life + 70" now is because those with vested interests (which, by the way, will also expire long before said copyrights and any possible loss they might encounter from losing content to the public domain) demanded it, several times, based on precedents in which they were granted extensions. How does this not equal to limitless? What's stopping these interests from considering generations further down the road from saying, "No, sorry, we've decided you don't deserve this culture either, freetards. Have another 20 years extension"?
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I know what you will say so let me preempt that by saying, if it is ok to wait for life + 75 years why won't you wait life + 75 years to get paid then?
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If it's just to add background and atmosphere then yes, licensing as normal.
Mind you, some folks might think that a free license might be appropriate in a work such as this, but that's a personal decision.
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Whilst you're at it you could find the bits where Mike says that copyright is evil and that he's a pirate. That would save us all a load of time next time.
Oh yes, and was the documentary any good? I'm assuming you've seen it since you know there wasn't a fair use argument?
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That's bullshit to me. You don't get it both ways.
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Then you can kill two birds with one stone. Release information that could be valuable to other people that have, or deal with, dementia. But, also raise awareness to the silliness of current licensing agreements the music industry uses.
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I would give my Art away for this project.
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One reward you can get for pledging, is a DVD or digital download... which won't be shipped until after the theatrical run (December).
So:
1) Pay money (July).
2) Film comes out (September).
- artificial scarcity introduced -
3) Film gets pirated and distributed online.
4) Thousands, perhaps millions of people see it without paying (some contribute to music+dementia charity).
5) You finally get access to the film that everybody's talking about and that you paid for 5 months earlier. (December)
I hope they have time to rethink their business model. I don't think creating artificial scarcity is a graceful way to get the message out about something as important as what is covered in this film.
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However, the film is already complete and the Kickstarter is only for the music licencing and a few other small details. They will presumably have had some other distribution deal in the can before the licencing issue threatened to kill everything.
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It would benefit your readers if you quote what is actually said at the linked site. The word "rights" appears within a laundry list of tasks that need to be performed before it can be released theatrically, and yet this one word somehow magically transforms all into a "copyright hold-up" of the film.
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In the video, he talks about what the money is for and he says "the biggest expense, actually, is we need to buy the rights to some music."
So, uh, yeah. It's not one in a laundry list, it's the biggest expense, and it's holding up the movie, as he explains elsewhere in the video.
Why is it that every time you comment on this site it's to make factually incorrect statements?
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I've been doing it wrong all this time!
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Um. If they can't pay for the music they can't release the movie. The title and the post are accurate.
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Your negative fixation on all things "copyright" appears to be influencing a loss of perspective.
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FTFY
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None of which appear to be major costs that this filmmaker is concerned with. The one he is concerned with and has indicated is the biggest cost: licensing.
We stand by the post. But given your history of being almost always wrong (and in the most pedantic way possible), it does not surprise me that you continue to dig in.
By the way, I'm still waiting for you to admit that Bret Easton Ellis has fans, since you insisted such a thing was unlikely. Also you claimed he had not hired a producer... when he had.
If you can't admit the basics when your wrong, it doesn't surprise me that you continue to double down in making false statements about what I write. I don't understand what compels someone like you to constantly speak from ignorance and then double down on it when called, but from a psychological perspective... it's fascinating.
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Yes, but if there are 99 things on that list, and music rights is say double the cost of others, it is still the biggest expense, but not really the only holdup. Music rights might only be $1000, we don't know - because you aren't telling us.
"Why is it that every time you comment on this site it's to make factually incorrect statements?"
When you stop trying to hide behind weasel words, and start actually providing all of the facts, even when they don't support your side of the story, perhaps people will stop asking questions you find annoying. The original poster has the right question: What is in that 50k besides copyright? Clearly this is not the only hold up.
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Mike is basically saying that this situation is a pretty good example of how exorbitant license fees impede or otherwise unnecessarily drive up the cost of the creation and distribution of other creative works, and that this is especially shameful when the works are, arguably, of obvious cultural value and public benefit, as this film appears to be.
And you are countering that no, it's not a good example of that, because it's possible that music licensing is only the biggest expense when compared to each of the other line items separately, rather than in aggregate. You also seem to feel that since there are multiple impediments to the film's completion and distribution, none of them can be said to be any more important than any other, even if some do cost more than others. You also toss in some desperate ad hominem, saying that Mike and the filmmaker are deliberately being misleading with their "weasel words".
As for the ad hominem, *shrug*; nice try.
As for the relative importance of the line items in the completion budget, when one expense is greater than another, it's completely normal and reasonable to characterize the one as a "bigger" obstacle to overcome than the other. The fact that the tasks must all be completed to achieve the goal doesn't diminish the fact that expense and difficulty make some tasks "bigger" impediments to completion than others, and makes the most costly requirement the "biggest". And it's perfectly natural to grumble loudly and bitterly if this expense is unnecessarily high, just some arbitrary, unjustifiable number cooked up to maximize the profit leeched from this filmmaker's work.
So tell us, exactly how big a chunk of the $50K would the music rights have to be before you agree that it's a good example of inflated license fees impeding culture, and how did you arrive at that amount? And if it turns out to be that much, are you going to eat crow and acknowledge that Mike is right?
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Uhhh...
Not on planet earth is isn't.. What planet are you on?
If copyright continuously gets extended then it doesn't end. That the media cartel has not de-facto spent enough cash to extend it forever, yet, does not make your argument, or rather lack there of accurate. Thinking that they would have not already done so if they could is laughable at best.
Furthermore, the point and inherent right(as it should be) to post anonymously, has exactly jack shit to do with enabling folks like you to act like a 4 year old.
"But you and I both know that when it's a dissenting view, you'll go to any lengths to try and discredit them--including revealing information that you shouldn't."
Would you care to cite that with something or in any way shape or form elaborate on that?
Calling folks names accomplishes nothing, which is effectively what you accomplish when you post here.
You want some discourse, we are happy to oblige. That assumes we happen to stumble across a fact or two in any of your adolescent, word salad trains of thought you have going on.
Nigel
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Find the memories, and you find the triggers so you can help the people with dementia, which it is a sad difficult slow process.
For those who don't know, when you get "demented" you start forgetting things like your loved ones, you forget who you are, what you are doing you lose the capacity to learn and retain and most get aggressive as in insulting, that is what it makes it hard to deal with, in other times those people would have died alone because they become non functional, incapable of navigating the politics of relationships.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/142214.php
You gotta have a lot of respect and love for someone that is calling you a SOB and saying he/she will kill you if you get near him/her, to keep caring for him/she. The tantrums become incessant and it is exhausting, those who want to learn about it should volunteer at a hospital to take care of old people or people with atherosclerosis, stroke, Alzheimer's and so forth which all can cause dementia.
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Music Licensing for ALIVE INSIDE
My name is Michael Rossato-Bennett and I am the Director of the film ALIVE INSIDE. First of all I would like to thank you all for your interest in our project. The life of millions of people with Dementa and particularly those with Dementia in nursing homes can be greatly improved with personal music. I have seen it and am dedicating a large part of my energy to getting it to them. Imagine giving a person in a desert, dying of thirst, and being given a glass of water! That is the effect I have seen. Unfortunately the reason they live in a desert has more to do with our fear of aging and death than anything else... Getting them music will be easy compared to changing these attitudes-
I think you guys should know a few things from my perspective as a filmmaker-
First, music licensing for films is one of the few remaining revenue streams left for Labels- so they are agressive. $50k is low for the songs I want to use- the actual cost may be more! This is of course because the revenue streams that used to exist are gone.
Second, almost none of the licensing fees goes to the artists.
Third, Music Licensing is a huge beauracrtic process- the top guy can say yes and it is still hard to get a reduction in price.
Fourth, you can not distribute a film through any channel without rights clearance and Insurance
Lastly, you would think a film that is doing such good, that has had 7 million views on its trailer would breeze through Kickstarter- unfortunaly this is not true- we are a story about the things our culture fears the most and we may not make our goal-
If you can, please consider making a donation to his campaign with any amount of money you can spare - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1406732546/alive-inside-a-story-of-music-and-memory?ref=live. If you can't make a donation, would you consider posting a message about the campaign on your Facebook page, or other social media? You can find Alive Inside on Facebook at www.facebook.com/bealiveinside, and on Twitter @AliveInsideFilm.
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Really needs to be shared!
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...copyright holders are locking it up...
Copyright holders are definitely not locking anything up! They're perfectly happy with their music spreading as far and wide as it can!
Of course as long as they're compensated in a way THEY deem reasonable - I'm sure you wouldn't suppress this right to the poor artists....
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Unnecessary problem
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