Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.
from the extradition-edition dept
First, two big wins against getting extradited from a country where you weren't breaking the law to a country where--regardless of whether you were or not--powerful enemies will almost certainly destroy your life for something awesome you did on the Internet: America!
New Zealand High Court: FBI Must Release Its Evidence Against Kim Dotcom
US, UK Betray Basic Values To Get Assange At Any Cost
Put yourself in Assange's shoes and imagine how amazing it will feel to walk off that jet onto an Ecuadorian tarmac. I have no idea how he gets out of London, but I wish Assange and everyone involved the best of luck. Publishing documents from a whistleblower on your website is not something you should go to jail (or worse, be executed!) for.
Next up, some great work by our friends at Demand Progress:
Both Republicans And Democrats Considering Supporting Basic Internet Freedom Principles With New Platforms
Third, three Russian activists get 2 years in jail for making a Youtube video against Putin. Upcoming ITU negotiations could give Putin significantly more control over the Internet. This is a great reminder of how Putin's Russia treats free expression online.
Russia Confirms To The World That It's Not A Fan Of Free Speech: Pussy Riot Gets Two Years In Jail
Finally, I'm psyched to see my home state of Massachusetts back off its cease and desist against taxi competitor Uber, after Cambridge, MA busted an Uber driver on a humorously archaic technicality concerning "weights and measures". But when will Uber make it to Worcester?
Massachusetts Realizes That Maybe GPS Isn't Too Newfangled After All; Reverses Order & Allows Uber
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The U.S.
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I'm favoring a helicopter from a ship waiting in international waters.
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Of course if they have - then the money would be on the theory that he has already left - or was never actually there in the first place.
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I suspect that what is more likely to happen is that the UK will revoke the diplomatic privileges of Ecuador, and give their diplomats a short time to leave. Then it's only a matter of time before Assange has to pop out of his hidey hole.
As someone else mentioned, it's pretty funny to watch a guy so desperate not to face up to his own actions that he would take his "free speech" loving self to a country with some of the worst civil rights around. Nothing says guilty like selling out completely to save your own ass.
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I will notify the Queen that a superior judicial being can be found on Techdirt.
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The same British Justice system that somehow fails to understand basic concepts of the internet, and gave a sentence to the admin of STC beyond what the law recommended?
The same British Justice system that wants to get Assange out of the country to avoid being the ones who tossed him over to the US so they can claim the moral high ground?
The same British Justice system that helped in the rendition of dissidents back to a country where they knew they would be tortured, to help protect their oil price?
Let me know when I'm close...
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the same system that is like every other country, trying to uphold their international legal obligations, as well as moral and ethical obligations.. as well as their extradition agreements, agreements means all countries agree that is the right thing to do..
trying to avoid a justice system by trying to game another system is what cowards and guilty people try to do..
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Because if that was the case, Assange should be allowed to leave that according to the treaties that the UK signed.
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The US that made up laws in the Dotcom case, creating criminal penalties for civil infractions?
Legality has nothing to do with morals or ethics, it is not moral to send people to jail for drug possession for longer than people that molest children.
It is not ethical to use threats of longer sentences to get people to accept different charges rather than actually try the case.
It is not moral or ethical to send people to jail and keep them there when the evidence proves they were innocent but it would damage your win record.
Assange has STILL not been charged with a crime, but Sweden is trying to game the system so they can hand him over to the US and stay on their good side. When describing people gaming the system look at both sides.
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Maybe next you can can do argumentum ad hitlerum.
By the way "hitlerum" sounds like some sort of anti-semite element. SCIENCE TIME
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They tried threatening that - and then backed down - so I think that is unlikely - besides the Columbian embassy is in the same building - and S. American countries tend to stick together - no the UK does not want to do that.
My suspicion is that this will drag on untilthe Swedish prosecutor loses interest - at which point he will be quietly allowed to leave - could be a long wait though.
Nothing says guilty like selling out completely to save your own ass.
Better than talking out of it!
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SO FAR
>besides the Columbian embassy is in the same building - >and S. American countries tend to stick together - no the >UK does not want to do that.
oh yes, who out of Columbia and Ecuador and the UK has more to lose from santions and loss of trade because of Diplomatic breakdown ?
>My suspicion is that this will drag on untilthe Swedish prosecutor loses interest..
Except, Sweden has issued and extradition notice on Assange, and the UK has accepted that. It is now out of the hands of the Swedes until he is on Swedish soil.. and in the hands of the UK authorites.. who have an agreement with Sweden to extradite suspected criminals..
>Nothing says guilty like selling out completely to save your own ass.
That I can agree with,,
Assange has put himself into self imposed custody, just like prison, he has to stay and cant go out.. I bet the Equadorians wont let him anywhere near their internal computers !!!! would you ?
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Except, Sweden has issued and extradition notice on Assange, and the UK has accepted that. It is now out of the hands of the Swedes until he is on Swedish soil.. and in the hands of the UK authorites.. who have an agreement with Sweden to extradite suspected criminals..
I am sure that Sweden remains in a position to quietly withdraw that request.
>They tried threatening that - and then backed down..
SO FAR
The UK foriegn minister looked extremely uncomfortable discussing the threat on UK TV. It seems that the threat was made without the knowledge (let alone consent) of the UK PM and his deputy (both on holiday).
Remember that this government is a coalition - and one of the parties has a lot of grassroots sympathy for Assange.
Since the coalition is already fragile I suspect that any attempt to resolve the Assange situation by force would probaly cause a coalition breakup and an election - which neither party wants right now - so I predict it won't happen.
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They don't like to be told that some other country is planning to commit what can be described as an act of war. And that is exactly what it is and how they are treating it (thats why there is a huge extra-ordinaare meeting being held by the whole S.American countries this weekend). If a Country threatened or attempted the same thing to the UK or heaven forbid the USA then it would be absolutely classed as an act of war.
Diplomacy and the role of Diplomats is sacrosanct it has to be and has been for thousands of years. They are the ones that not only stop wars first, they are the ones that negotiate peace etc During as well! without diplomacy all you have is a big rock (dick) throwing contest.
Also what you also need to realise about the S.American countries is that brazil and Argentina are included in them.. Two countries the UK really don't want to piss off.. Especially Brazil, huge economy, and even America is wary of pissing them off.
Assange has put himself into self imposed custody, just like prison, he has to stay and cant go out.. I bet the Equadorians wont let him anywhere near their internal computers !!!! would you ?
Yes I would let him near my computers, and here's an interesting factoid.. I HAVE! way back in the late 80's (when I was running a BBS) and recently (last 5yrs or so) as well for other matters that are between myself and him.
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They are willing to help someone get around the laws of two countries to avoid what MIGHT happen from the third country.
Assange's window statement earlier today is pretty much the full monty here. He has finally revealed himself as a coward and a scumbag at the same time, willing to climb into bed with a country that has horrible human rights record just to save his own skin.
Assange is a chicken and is very loose with the truth.
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Should Russia invade the embassies of the UK to get to asylum seekers too?
Alexander Litvinenko
Boris Berezovsky
Benny Wenda
Akhmed Zakayev
Other countries may be eager to ignore diplomatic law and go straight to business.
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You still haven't answered my question.
What swedish law did he break ?
You keep saying things like 'escape justice' but you won't answer a very simple question. As noted, the opportunity to question him was offered, and declined, indicating that all the swedes really want is to get him into their country which has nothing to do with 'justice'. What crime did he supposedly commit in sweden, and what crime did he commit in the UK. Difficulty .. Jumping bail doesn't count since in order to have to make bail he had to be arrested and CHARGED with something, so 'Bail Jumping' is simply a circular argument.
Exactly what were his 'crimes' ?? Seems like you are the one who is 'loose with the truth".
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Sad state of things
Meanwhile, one of our own, Randy Blythe, singer for Lamb of God out of Richmond, Virginia sat in a Czech prison for 38 days on trumped up manslaughter charges and no one in this country outside of the metal community said a word. Basically, 2 years ago while playing a show there, a stage diver cracked his head and later died. Our government knew of the charges against him but didn't bother to notify him or the band. The band arrived in June to do a show and a Czech S.W.A.T. team grabbed him getting off the plane, threw him in prison, then for the next month the prosecution there jerked him around and held him even after posting $400,000 bail. All the while our embassy there and our government here did nothing to help.
http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/news/lamb-of-gods-randy-blythe-if-im-called-to-return-to-prague-i-w ill/
http://www.nme.com/news/lamb-of-god/65465
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The similarities lie in the fact that both of these situations are pure political failures. In Russia, the government went after their citizens and jailed them, here the government just didn't bother to lift of finger to help free their citizen.
If you still don't feel that's enough, compare it to the Amanda Knox situation. The Amanda Knox ordeal was plastered all over the news, both local and national. The government assisted any way they could. Not so in the case of Randy Blythe. Complete silence.
My gripe is not about Techdirt not covering this. My gripe is about the media in general not covering this. Do you think it would be the same if it happened to Britney Spears?
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manslaughter is the correct charge to apply in these conditions, what has that have to do with politics ?.. Governments from another country cannot (generally) interfere with the justice systems of other countries.. if you commit a crime in a country, it is assumed you will face justice within the same country, under the same laws you broke..
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As for your second point... the U.S. government has been very busy lately interfering in things that SHOULD be left in the hands of other countries. They knew of this situation and what would happen if the band returned there, but the band had no clue. Randy's a stand up guy who has lost a child himself. He knows what this kid's family is going through and wants to help them find some closure, but does not feel he should be the one held responsible. He didn't even know anyone got hurt at their show and had absolutely no clue that there was a death as a result. The only people in the U.S. that knew about any of this was the government and they apparently kept it to themselves.
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Not necessarily true.
In certain Latin American countries you are guilty of manslaughter in the following situation. If after arriving for the first time in country (eliminating any prior possible local conflict) you hire a taxi cab, set in the back of the cab on the way to hotel, and then the cab has a accident in rout which was plainly not the taxi cab driver's fault. The rational goes is that if you as a rich foreigner had not hired the cab in the first place the accident would not have happened as the cab would not have been where the accident happened thus you are at fault for inducement of an event which resulted in damage. As such you are both financially and criminally liable for the accident.
One of the big problems here is that since everyone speaks English on this form the assumption is that the basis of English law apply to places where the concepts of English law are a completely alien concept.
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https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/help-free-d-randall-blythe-prage-czech-republic -where-he-falsely-accused-commiting-manslaughter/3dsZD2Gd?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl& amp;utm_campaign=shorturl
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New rule: you shouldn't be able to be extradited from a country where you didn't break the law.
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get a hold of the fact before you talk shit..
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Circular argument!
The bail orders didn't exist before the extradition request!
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it does not matter what was first, breaking a court order is called "contempt" and contempt is a criminal act.. it's not a circular argument at all.. you're just simply confused and dont understand basic concepts of law.
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All it means is that you have voided the bail conditions until at such time that bail is granted again. It means he has to be brought before the courts once again too. Yes the LEO's will have a standard presumption against bail once (if) they arrest him but that is something the charge sergeant at the local station does but they still have to place him before a court for bail to be removed or granted again.
What can occur is that a bench warrant is placed for his arrest but it is still NOT a crime to breach bail conditions in the UK or other common law countries (the USA??? No clue.. most likely knowing your weird laws its most likely a felony for some stupid reason)
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Actually it is, it's called contempt, and is a CRIMINAL ACT, people are imprisioned for breaking an order of the court all the time.. being on bail is the same as sitting in a cell, except they let you out.. if you break the law you can have that bail revoked and you end up in a cell..
Thomo, do you actually know anything about anything ???
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Are you saying that the UK can pick and chose what treaties and when they should fallow them?
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I said this last time: Assange should be locked up in the UK for breakign the law here. That is beyond doubt. Then, with co-operation from the UK suthorities, the Swedish prosecutor can then conduct said interview whilst Assange is in prison for contempt of court (breach of bail conditions).
That would solve both problems at a stroke.
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major difference, he is being extradited to face a justice system, that will determine that he has broken the law, and punish him accordingly..
if you saw someone kill your child, and saw them get on a bus to canada, would you say "it's ok, he got away with it, because he managed to get out of the country before he was caught by police " ?
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Because when you have made up charges and your own country doesn't even want to guarantee you will not be extradited to another one which wants you dead, I Say it is ok to ignore those laws and get across the border.
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btw: assange is not being extradited because of the US but because he has an extradition order from Sweden..
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Get with the program.
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Sweden... a country that ignored their own laws and raided TPB in violation of Swedish law to avoid the US doing something bad to them.
Sweden a country that will cave and extradite Assange as soon as he sets foot on their soil to answer for "crimes" the US has been trumping up for months.
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Like or loathe Assange, you're being willfully abstruse if you can't see that he has reason to fear the absence of a fair trial.
If he even gets a trial at all.
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how has 90% of kids reach the 5th grade !!!!
and the spanish inquisition !.. fingertip grip on a stable political system. Often resorts to military coup's and expolsions. who has an embassy in the UK at the pleasure of the UK, that is not a right, but a priviledge, and can be revoked at any time, should that priviledge be abused.
UK thinks it is being abused..
They have a huge amount more to lose from this that the UK or sweden has.. they have allready lost their international and diplomatic reputation.. next commercial.. and Equador needs (ALOT) trade, with the UK, the US and Sweden.
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The free falling economies of the US and Europe?
They could do that or they could go where the real money is right now and that is Asia.
Maybe that is why they seem to not care that much anymore.
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Also Ecuador could sell their oil to China instead of Europe.
http://www.eia.gov/cabs/Ecuador/Full.html
Do you want to pay more for gas?
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Asia bananas are getting expensive, because they are actually now able to afford to buy their own bananas which puts pressure, the only other place where food is still cheap is Africa which Asians are economic colonizing.
So please be an a-hole an put at risk all future relations because of one man.
That would be marvelous.
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Here is what is going to happen, the UK has no leverage against Ecuador, none, zero, zilch, nada.
Ecuador can export its food to Asian countries or other European countries and use those as proxy, the only thing it will do it is to make food more expensive to the UK, further UK companies operate in Ecuador, do you think it would hurt if Ecuador nationalized BP?
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GDP: (2011) $127 Billion
GDP: Per Capita: $4425
UK:
GDP: (2011)$2308.5 Billion
GDP: Per Capita: $36,605
SO yes, Ecuador needs the UK far more than the UK needs Ecuador, wait until it hurts Ecuadorians in terms of loss of trade, and see who blinks first.. :D
I know who I have my money on winning....
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Here is the situation dude.
Asia is becoming developed meaning that billions of people are able to buy food now, which means they will put pressure on supply, the same goes for oil.
The UK after the Falklands doesn't have a good relation with most of the Spanish speaking countries there.
Not to mention that BP operates in Ecuador that would hurt.
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NOT S.American countries that's for sure
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Asia allready grows it's own fruits. thay are not interested in buying more.. No Ecuador WILL lose out massive time, all to protect an idiot who deserves and needs to face the consequences of his actions..
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https://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/27/world/americas/27brazil.html?pagewanted=all
http:// www.prweb.com/releases/2012/2/prweb9206174.htm
http://www.economist.com/node/13692889
The UK since it is a chronicle food importer that have more people than it has land to grow food is also running to grab land wherever it can.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jun/26/uk-investors-africa-land-summit
http://www .oaklandinstitute.org/foreign-corporations-scramble-buy-african-land-raising-food-security-concerns
I don't think you understand how really fragile the UK is on the food front and the rest of the world for that matter.
There are not enough land to produce food horizontally, anymore, there is only going vertical now, the UK has no resources to compete against the likes of China, India and US, so it should not be making enemies or creating situations where it could cause a disruption in their supply lines, food, metals, oil and other raw materials comes from the very same countries you are calling shite.
They can make the UK and the US lifes miserable if they so chose to do so, even more since they are successfully making their own economic zone away from the US and Europe, where every time they go to talk or ask for help they are pounded with demands.
Things are changing.
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Which means the UK could have to pay more for food in the not so distant future.
That all because the US wants Assange by any means necessary, the UK should start to think about what it is best for them, following the US everywhere or start thinking about their own priorities, because the US is not making many friends around the world and it is losing economic leverage so the old way of forcing others to comply may not work for much longer and without cheap raw materials there are no industrialized country.
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Putin Pie
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Assanage requests more blank CD's
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Breaking what law .. exactly ? Please be specific.
" That is beyond doubt. "
So there has been a trial, and he's been duly convicted then ?
No ?
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he was under arrest and under specific bail conditions,
he jumped bail, making him in breach of UK law.. he was under arrest because of swedish law.
all clear now ??
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Next!
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No, not really.
"he was under arrest in the UK, "
For what crime .. what was he charged with, specifically.
What law did he supposedly break ? Why won't you answer that ?
What UK law did he break to get arrested in the first place.
What Swedish law did he supposedly break ?
Nope, not clear at all.
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what law did he break, swedish laws (you should know about them) extradition laws, bail laws, understand now ??? btw: that question was allready answered.
> UK bail laws, international extradition laws, Swedish sex laws..
you dont know much, it's a wonder you even know how to get on the internet.. (next you just have to learn how to read).
clear now ?? (I didn't think so).
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The UK doesn't even extradite pedophiles but they are willing to undermine diplomacy for Assange?
Only a fool can't see what this is about and it is not about the law.
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Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.
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Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.
Maybe you should open your eyes to the evil they are doing in your name, instead of jingoistic whining when they are called out for behaving poorly.
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Re: Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.
In other words, you don't know, or there wasn't anything he could have been charged with. That's what I thought. If you don't know the answer just admit it, you'll feel better.
to the ac's other personality ..
" Your actually praising HATE speech of the USA? Time to unsubscribe from an anti-american trash rag. I just lost all respect for you guys at Tech Dirt :( "
As an american let me just say this ..
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
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Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.
If you don't understand that and think that that is "Hate speech" then you really need to actually look up what hate speech is and consider that when the US Government is talking about other countries and ideologies that somehow doesn't conform to their own.
BTW I am not an Australian with LOTS of friends, colleagues, and associates in the USA and not once have I ever heard what we are stating here being "hate speech'
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Re: Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.
It is clear, that most Americans think the rest of the world LOVES them.. also equally clear, most Americans are WRONG on this issue..
creation believing, bible bashing, gun toting, drug consuming, greedy, constantly in the WRONG WARS (and LOSING).. and trying to drag other countries down with it..
sub-standard, sub-prime, and you cant even do technology anymore.. (oh yea, and they all think the rest of the world just loves them)..
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Re: Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.
most see obama as 1000% better than bush, but he is incapble of doing what he wants becuase of the stupid senate, and the requirement to be popular with all the factions and religious nuts to be elected..
Bush was a train wreck, and pushed your country to the brink of destruction.. and the American people LOVED HIM !!!! (except when they all lost their homes and jobs)..
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Re: Holmes Wilson's Favorite Techdirt Posts Of The Week.
As an American .. not praising, ACCEPTING that others have a right to view us as douchebags, especially when we act like douchebags. So, is it your belief that anyone who says they hate america needs to be jailed or, perhaps, shot ?
How American of you.
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