Horrifying: Surfthechannel Criminal Conviction Driven By Hollywood Money -- Not The Government
from the a-broken-system dept
We've been following the Surfthechannel/Scopelight case since early on, and there have always been serious questions about it. More than three years ago, we were wondering why a private, Hollywood-financed anti-piracy operation called FACT wasn't just able to take part in the raid of Anton Vickerman's house, but also got to take the computers that were seized. A private party should never be able to get the computers of those that they're accusing in a criminal case. Soon after Vickerman was declared guilty, we discussed some anonymous courtroom notes that suggested extremely serious oddities with how the case was conducted -- including (again) FACT more or less running the show, and having trouble keeping important data.Following Vickerman's sentencing last week, even more info came out about the case that raises incredibly important questions about its validity. Tim Lee over at Ars Technica has gone through the issue in great detail, highlighting how FACT didn't just take part in the raid, but it financed the government agency that did the investigation and then financed and ran the criminal prosecution against Vickerman.
Lee explains that this is an oddity/antiquity of UK law, in which private parties are actually allowed to bring criminal charges against other private parties, rather than (as in the US) needing the government to decide to bring charges. In fact, in this case, government prosecutors expressly refused to bring charges noting that they didn't think there was a case -- information that was kept from Vickerman. From the Crown Prosecution Service:
I understand from [Northumbria Detective Constable] Watkin that there have been no other successful prosecutions that he is aware of where we could point to this type of website being classified as amounting to "making available... by electronic transmission," the legal standard needed to find Vickerman guilty of copyright infringement. At present it appears uncertain if in fact what the suspect has done does infringe this particular legislation. Certainly on the evidence thus far provided it is impossible for me to determine if this is the case and therefore I cannot advise any prosecution on the evidence presented.The CPS found the whole thing bizarre:
His 'crime' is to make it easier for others to find what is already there. This begs the rather obvious question of why he is being pursued rather than those who actually breach the copyright by displaying the material.And yet, FACT went through with the case, because of an oddity in UK law that lets a private party pursue a criminal charge if they're willing to finance it. And FACT was more than willing to finance nearly ever aspect of this case, apparently. It did the original "investigation" in which it apparently recorded a key meeting. The two sides dispute what was said in that meeting... but FACT can't seem to find the recording (of course). The report also explains how FACT funded the Bedfordshire Trading Standards Financial Investigations Unit (BTSFIU), officially a government agency, but one that was directly funded by FACT to be its own private police force, and which apparently took the job gleefully.
Of course, you would think that some of this info would get out before a judge, but the judge seemed equally unconcerned with the law, as focused as he was on Vickerman apparently being arrogant. Even more bizarre, the judge didn't seem at all concerned about precedents that went the other way. For example, the TV-Links case, which was quite similar, ended up with an acquittal, so you might think that any reference to it would be in Vickerman's favor. Not in this judge's mind:
TV-Links had already engaged in a similar operation but you believed you could do better. You pressed on knowing that TV Links had been taken down following the intervention of FACT on the basis that what it had been doing was unlawfulYes, you read that right. Even though TV Links was found to be lawful, in this judge's mind, the fact that it had been taken down by FACT (the same group prosecuting this case), should have been evidence to Vickerman that STC was illegal. Think about that for a second. It's almost mind-blowingly ridiculous. The mere accusation that another site was illegal, even though that later turned out to not be true was enough evidence for this judge that STC's actions were illegal. How does a judge who thinks that way keep his job?
The judge also does not seem to understand the nature of the internet or links, or how user generated content works. He seems to think that before anyone can post a link to a website, the owner of that website should need to contact a copyright holder to find out if the posting of that link and the underlying content it points to are legal. Seriously:
When it was suggested in cross examination that it was obvious that the films that you were posting links to were to links to recent films and that you were helping people to link to copyright infringing films, you insisted that you couldn’t know if it was infringing copyright, that the studious might have granted right holder licences to the films of which you had no knowledge. That was certainly true and bound to be true if you didn’t bother to check with the copyright owners and check you most certainly didn’t.The judge also takes a movie studio exec at face value, when she tells the court that "piracy" means fewer blockbuster movies -- despite the fact that approximately four times as many movies were made last year than were made 15 years ago. Actual facts don't appear to be this judge's strong suit. He also uses the fact that since the movie industry pays taxes, if it struggles, fewer taxes are paid. But, if that's a crime, then any industry that is declining suddenly can implicate any upstart competition for those same reasons.
The whole thing is both bizarre and scary.
One hopes that, given these rather horrifying details, conflicts of interest and inconsistencies, it will be possible to revisit much of this on appeal.
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Filed Under: anton vickerman, bias, crimnal law, private parties, prosecution, surfthechannel, uk
Companies: fact, scopelight, surfthechannel
Reader Comments
The First Word
“In this case...
Nope, the only thing missing are some of the even worse details alleged by Vickerman (such as alleged attempt by FACT to commit a crime as part of their "seizure" of his website, the repeated lies, the FACT (hah!) that they claimed to various people (his ISP, his utility providers) that he was selling counterfeit DVDs as a way of tricking(?) into handing over private information including nearly getting his ISP to tap his connection for them, that they got their pet trading standards organisation to freeze all his assets illegally (it was quickly overturned, but not before massive financial damage was done), how they refused to hand over the crucial CPS letter and were only made to by the judge after telling him that it helped their case, how they agreed not to present all their numbers on the level of damage done by copyright infringement during the trial (when Vickerman's team were prepared to rip it apart), but instead handed it in after the trial as part of the sentencing process, when it couldn't be challenged...).
Of course, all of these could be lies spread by a convicted criminal desperately trying to justify his actions, but some parts will be in the public record (if only we had a profession paid to investigate and report to the public on possible miscarriages of justice and other happenings in the public interest - but apparently all press reporting of this trial (other than a few specialist places) just parroted a FACT press briefing (in some cases, verbatim)...).
The judge repeatedly called him out in his sentencing remarks for being arrogant and showing no remorse - traits I imagine also exhibited by people who genuinely believe they are innocent and can't believe the treatment they are receiving.
Sadly (or perhaps for the best), Vickerman's full statement has disappeared from his website (along with the supporting documents; they were probably libellous, in breach of confidentiality and infringing copyright anyway), but not before a few people grabbed copies. Not sure whether it was FACT, the court or his lawyers who removed it.
One good thing; the statement revealed he is filing (or has filed?) an appeal, on 24 different grounds. I think that will be worth getting popcorn for.
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Enforcement of simple copyright law is horrifying to him.
C'mon Mike, don't stop now, keep tilting at those windmills...
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Britian is going down
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strap your tinfoil back on fool...
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The same as the other public officials who support "the cause", they don't don't care about their public positions one bit. They've already have been given assurances of six-figure contracts.
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Think of the case in simple terms. If you opened a storefront called "Located Crack Dealers" and charged people to connect them with crack dealers, you would very likely be arrested and charged with criminal facilitation or a similar type offense.
Why is suddenly adding "on the internet" support to make it legal?
Put another way: Having the illegal content up with no way to find it would be a meaningless act. In order for a true copyright violation to occur there has to be distribution. Without these sorts of sites, there wouldn't be anyone finding the links and seeing the content.
It's pretty much straight criminal conspiracy, if you like. Left hand and right hand working together to further a common goal.
Law enforcement is often narrowly focused on the actions of a single party, and not the large conspiracy. It's why a local constable might write this off without a thought, yet standing back and looking at the bigger picture, you can see the illegal activity going on and the significant role that this website played in the infringement.
The courts got it right. The guy broke the law, plain and simple.
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Furthermore, nobody please respond to this schill.
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In this particular case - a private organization, with enormously deep pockets, prosecuted another private individual with evidence the *state* thought was non-existent.
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Re: Britian is going down
*Please note this should be repeated until believed any contradictory facts should be ignored or dismissed as non Faux News propaganda.
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Re: Britian is going down
You probably need better sources, for domestic and for international news.
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It's being used to stifle free speech, human rights and interferes with people's right to pursue happiness.
You know, like how the Banks robbed several trillion dollars from both Americans and Europeans in 2008, none of them went to prison and got bailed out.
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A better analogy would be the phone book giving numbers to escorts. Chances are "escorts" is just a fancy word for prostitute, but the phone company doesn't know that and won't be held liable for prostitution.
And yes, I'm making an assumption about the number of illegal escorts vs. legal ones, but so is AC when he's talking about links.
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The only reason this went ahead was because a private entity was fully permitted to seize property they had no legal right to (CAVEAT: it is illegal in the UK unless with a full court order mandating the turnover of the "evidence" form the police to the private entity - which seemingly didn't happen here) and then fully finance the prosecution from an overseas company (also potentially illegal, depending on the circumstances).
/dons tinfoil
Perhaps this might be because the MPAA and its ilk really needed a win at any cost in order to extort monies from other people, such as Google and Spotify.
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And yes i think they also paid for the judge veredict
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More info
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But hey, the laws the law, so I guess you win, huh? Although, thinking about it, it does make you wonder why they keep pushing for SOPA etc.
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Let me fix.
Actually, this is a very good example of the government / law enforcement just not understanding what is happening online, and not being able to properly prosecute what is going on.
Think of the case in simple terms. If you gave someone music or a movie or a tv series without making them pay the distributors, it's obviously infringement, and should be punished, even if no one thinks that.
Why is suddenly adding "on the internet" support to make it illegal?
Put another way: Having the content up with no way to find it would be a meaningless act that the RIAA and MPAA would still try to convict you over. It's quite obvious that such businesses should be left to rot, but they pour so much money into the government that they always get what they want.
It's pretty much straight criminal conspiracy, if you like. Left hand and right hand working together to further a common goal.
Law enforcement is often narrowly focused on the actions of a single party, and not the large conspiracy. It's why a local constable might write this off without a thought, yet standing back and looking at the bigger picture, you can see the illegal activity going on and the significant role that the RIAA and MPAA play in politics.
The courts got it wrong. The guy did not break the law, plain and simple.
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By the police, who will then take the case to the Crown prosecution Service, who will then press forward with the case on behalf of the government if the case is sound.
Did you miss the part of the article that discussed that this didn't happen, and why? If the case you propose was rejected by the CPS because no illegal activity was found, would you then support the local pharmacy sending them to jail instead because they didn't like business practices that were "stealing" medication sales from them?
"Why is suddenly adding "on the internet" support to make it legal?"
Why does telling people where the crackhouse is (the closest your silly analogy will ever get the the reality of the situation) suddenly land you in jail for 3 years just because it is on the internet?
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Now to combat your crack dealers bit. This is quite different than connecting with crack dealers as you put it. The fact of the matter is even if it was illegal, a website was taken out without due process by an organization financing the operation to do so. The UK law allowing such "financing" is considered bribery in most countries.
Now given that, I have never heard of a case of local law enforcement in the US ever arresting someone (mind you local, state, and sheriff's office) because someone financed the operation. Anyone who would have done that would have been arrested for bribery and scentances to jail or even prison for 20 years given the amount. In the US, it is illegal to even attempt to bribe local law enforcement.
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In this case...
Nope, the only thing missing are some of the even worse details alleged by Vickerman (such as alleged attempt by FACT to commit a crime as part of their "seizure" of his website, the repeated lies, the FACT (hah!) that they claimed to various people (his ISP, his utility providers) that he was selling counterfeit DVDs as a way of tricking(?) into handing over private information including nearly getting his ISP to tap his connection for them, that they got their pet trading standards organisation to freeze all his assets illegally (it was quickly overturned, but not before massive financial damage was done), how they refused to hand over the crucial CPS letter and were only made to by the judge after telling him that it helped their case, how they agreed not to present all their numbers on the level of damage done by copyright infringement during the trial (when Vickerman's team were prepared to rip it apart), but instead handed it in after the trial as part of the sentencing process, when it couldn't be challenged...).
Of course, all of these could be lies spread by a convicted criminal desperately trying to justify his actions, but some parts will be in the public record (if only we had a profession paid to investigate and report to the public on possible miscarriages of justice and other happenings in the public interest - but apparently all press reporting of this trial (other than a few specialist places) just parroted a FACT press briefing (in some cases, verbatim)...).
The judge repeatedly called him out in his sentencing remarks for being arrogant and showing no remorse - traits I imagine also exhibited by people who genuinely believe they are innocent and can't believe the treatment they are receiving.
Sadly (or perhaps for the best), Vickerman's full statement has disappeared from his website (along with the supporting documents; they were probably libellous, in breach of confidentiality and infringing copyright anyway), but not before a few people grabbed copies. Not sure whether it was FACT, the court or his lawyers who removed it.
One good thing; the statement revealed he is filing (or has filed?) an appeal, on 24 different grounds. I think that will be worth getting popcorn for.
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http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/anton-vickerman-sentenci ng-remarks-14082012.pdf
It seemed that the judge had entirely bought into the FACT version of events, the Copyright Math taken on face value. The need to defend Hollywood revenue or face the nightmare prospect of fewer films.
I wondered whether Vickerman had the same quality of robust defence team enjoyed by Paul Chambers?
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Oh, so he works like a pimp. Nothing wrong with that....
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Anyone know how long it usually takes an Appeals hearing to go through in the UK?
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You're as silly and willfully blind as this Paul T goofball.
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Paul, you assume I can't read. I read the story carefully and I understand the points being made. However, if the British legal system allows for this type of prosecution, then so be it. If that is the law, then work with it.
Remember, it's not a slam dunk. They still had to make a case (one that the prosecutors thought too weak) and provde it in court. They did that. There was no free pass.
Did you actually read the story, or did you just skip along with Mike's moral outrage?
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It's quite obvious that judge's robe (mantle? or what's it called) fits clowns as well... There must have been a sale on those robes at a closest Sam's Club.
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Well then... I think I know a few thousand politicians who I'd like to charge with corruption and insider trading... If they don't change the law first...
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Crack
Or is it only illegal if I'm telling crack addicts? Do I now have to give a urine test to anyone I want to discuss the crack house with? Isn't the mere suggestion that starting a service to tell people where things are a violation of free speech?
And, as is the case here, why would the cops arrest the location service instead of USING IT TO FIND THE CRACK HOUSES?! Just ask them where they are! Once you disband all the crack houses the location service will go out of business anyway because they have nothing left to link to!
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Judge Luddite
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Or made a congressman.
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In the UK if you opened a drug locator stall then it implies you have consorted with the drug dealers and you would quite rightly be charged with aiding and abetting.
The reason you are aiding and abetting is because the actual act of selling drugs is a crime.
Copyright Infringement is 9/10 a civil matter, apart from when businesses are profiting from copyright infringement.
The people uploading content are not committing a criminal offence (for the most part) therefore the linking sites can not aide or abet. So really this is all a bit of a loop hole (assuming linking sites can be held responsible for what there users post)
To be honest compared to other loop holes in the law, especially around tax, this ain't high on my list of priorities to fix.
I agree that no one should be able to profit from making an exact copy of other peoples works without the original artists permissions, but then non profit copyright infringement should stay a civil matter.
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The whole thing is worth a read. Fair play for Vickerman, at least he didn't go down quietly. This whole thing makes me sick and angry, and resentful towards the Government of the country i live in and pay taxes to.
Its our day and age version of the old 'witch hunts' and it will be just as ridiculous and incomprehensible to future generations.
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After all; there's no doubt that buying politicians gets expensive! And right now, with all the piracy out-right DESTROYING the bottom lines of their blessed companies - they need to pinch every dime!
Praise be the almighty dollar! I wonder how much longer before we are expected to show up at a corporation on Sundays to worship them?
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However, looking at the times between sentencing/conviction and appeal verdict of the last 10 or so reported cases, it seems to be of the order of 12-18 months (with a couple of outliers at 5 months, and one at 4 years).
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Saying, matter of factly, that this is the law and there's nothing you can do about it is not conducive to discussion, hence the criticism aimed at your comments.
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You assume that he is the god of his site and knows every deal having been cut between any site his users link to with any rightholder. From my point of view that is pertty presumtuous. How are you ever going to get a computer with all the software you want without assuming that the place you buy it has the correct license, the key you get is legal and the version you get is appropriately licensed for the upgrades you need? EULAs can be tampered with...
The way it works on other services is different: Most sites have a takedown policy where you as a rightholder can demand something being taken off a site. IIRC Surfthechannel had something like that too...
When it comes to enforcement I only see some clear legal rights in the physical world. In the digital world it is a different game. Don't tell me that publishers have lowered their price to accomodate the digital markets. I know for a fact that the compensations from libraries to rightholders on digital copies are so high (a lot higher than on books!) that the libraries are putting restrictions on how much they can lend users on the web.
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Mike, if piracy is not OK, then why are you so upset that a pirate is going to jail for ripping off artists? Oh yeah, because you really think piracy is perfectly OK.
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In England, yes. Not in the United States of America. At least not until the MAFIAA gets Congress to change the laws here and make them a private police force, which may happen once the Department of Homeland Security gets thoroughly reamed by the courts.
Well then... I think I know a few thousand politicians who I'd like to charge with corruption and insider trading... If they don't change the law first...
I wish, but they can just claim privilege of office. The best way to deal with them is vote them out of office, but that is equally difficult to do.
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That's the problem with shills. ANY argument against their goal, even the methods used to achieve that goal, means that you are "the enemy".
Until you realize that no one is arguing "for" piracy but, instead, arguing "against" idiots making things worse for everyone just for their own personal gain, you'll never win.
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It is unfortunate that the site is down (www.surfthechannel.com) it had plenty of information on how the system was abused to destroy his life. That FACT withheld information from the defense that should have been disclosed, how judge Evans was clearly biased towards the FACT points.
The UK is a shame of a country that cares little to nothing about fairness and due process. It has become even clearer with Assange now.
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Yes. They lost. In a case where the prosecution got away with everything short of murder. At the absolute least, the case should have been thrown out for corruption of evidence given that FACT were given the computers belonging to the people they were charging.
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It might not make it legal, but it will drive it underground.
The comparison to prohibition is spot on because of the willful
blindness to adapt to reality.
> Actually, this is a very good example of the government / law enforcement
> just not understanding what is happening online,
> and not being able to properly prosecute what is going on.
Actually, this is a very good example of the government / law enforcement
just not understanding what is happening with prohibition,
and not being able to properly prosecute what is going on.
> Think of the case in simple terms.
> If you opened a storefront called "Located Crack Dealers"
> and charged people to connect them with crack dealers, you would
> very likely be arrested and charged with criminal facilitation
> or a similar type offense.
Think of the case in simple terms.
If you opened a storefront called "Located Speakeasy and Drinking"
and charged people to connect them with alcohol, you would
very likely be arrested and charged with criminal facilitation
or a similar type offense.
> Put another way: Having the illegal content up with no way
> to find it would be a meaningless act.
> In order for a true copyright violation
> to occur there has to be distribution. Without these sorts of sites,
> there wouldn't be anyone finding the links
> and seeing the content.
Put another way: Having the illegal alcohol available with no way
to find it would be a meaningless act.
In order for a true prohibition violation
to occur there has to be distribution. Without these sorts of sites,
there wouldn't be anyone finding the speakeasy
and drinking the alcohol.
> It's pretty much straight criminal conspiracy, if you like.
> Left hand and right hand working together to further a common goal.
Yep, just like prohibition. And we all see how that ended up.
> The courts got it right. The guy broke the law, plain and simple.
Yep. Low court justice vs. High Court justice.
Don't worry, the wheel will turn.
What do you think happens to a society when injustice and bribery run rampant, when High court and Low court justice is brazen and obvious, when society begins to divide into the very rich and the very poor? Just wondering.
Look how prohibition worked out.
Here's a clue: adapt. evolve. Start thinking of this wonderful new technology as a way to make even more money rather than as a threat to an obsolete way of making money.
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Yes, a guy who was "innocently" making a living off of linking to pirated feeds.
Yup, seems innocent to me, snow white, absolutely nothing wrong here.
If you can't see anything wrong, then well, it's hard to have a discussion.
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Fuck off and die, you moron.
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And why should I die? Go on, give us a reason. Otherwise, you are clearly just a monster. I hate copyright law, yes I admit it, but I don't call for the deaths of copyright law maximilists. I just want their poisonous influence to end and for copyright to be repealed.
Is holding that belief deserving of death?
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That is what has myself and the others here in an uproar. The complete miscarriage of justice. Not just the sentencing, but in how it was arrived at.
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If you were better informed you'll notice he had COMMERCIAL partnerships with Discovery A&E and others. And that Aiplex (that ddos Indian anti-piracy outfit) posted over a million infringing links to his site. Among other absurds, some of which are cited in the article.
I'll make your words mine: If you can't see anything wrong, then well, it's hard to have a discussion.
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Re: Crack
Hmm, I tried to come up with an analogy involving crack houses, maps, signposts and so on, but I think it's simpler to just go to the facts:
It would be like setting up a platform where people could tell other people how to find stuff in other places, and being locked up because some of those people were telling people how to get to stuff that might be illegal for some of them to view.
Do we really need analogies to show how silly this is?
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I only failed to get the whole text he posted, does any1 get a link for a copy?
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Finally, words that speak the truth. Yes, there was no free pass to get this unjust verdict. They had to "buy" it, lock, stock, and barrel.
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This is not an inflammatory name calling post. While his post may not change my mind, and the counter posts may not change his, this is the type of post from those I disagree with that I would like to read on techdirt.
I am tempted to mark it as "insightful" because I think it should be read, but I can't quite do it because to me "insightful" just implies that I find the points made a reasonable interpretation of the facts, and I don't.
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Fewer taxes would be paid by them. The taxes would instead be paid by other industries, because if people don't have to spend money on one thing, they'll spend it on something else instead.
Claiming that the movie industry is the only business that pays taxes is either intellectually dishonest or incredibly stupid.
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You moron.
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http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/judge-google-didnt-follow-show-your-shills-order/
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http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/judge-google-didnt-follow-show-your-shills-order/
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So you are a freehadist maximalist... uhm, ok... not a lot of ground to find solutions there WITH you...
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Yet, you somehow translated (to paraphrase) "it makes me feel very uncomfortable that a corporation can bring a criminal prosecution and guide the judge's verdict" into something completely different.
"I read the story carefully and I understand the points being made. "
Yet, at minimum, your comments imply that you somehow missed the point that the police/CPS were not the ones bringing the charges. That this happens to be the entire focus of the article you're criticising can't go unnoticed.
"If that is the law, then work with it."
Why do you always seem to forget the "it's possible to be critical of the law while still following it" option? According to you, we should all blindly and silently follow any law that's dreamed up and never criticise it. Sorry, but I still hail from a free country despite corporate interests among others trying to corrupt it. Criticism is both valid and allowed.
"They still had to make a case (one that the prosecutors thought too weak) and provde it in court. They did that. There was no free pass."
Maybe not, but there were definitely private interests involved. Being British, and generally critical of corporate influence on politics, that makes me particularly uncomfortable. I do not want my home nation to become a testing ground for this kind of action, especially since so many legitimate avenues that can be addressed without involving the courts still exist.
"Did you actually read the story, or did you just skip along with Mike's moral outrage?"
I'm very familiar with the case even without including the information I've read on Techdirt. A shame that you'd make this accusation, and yet not address a single one of the points in my comment.
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What do you base this on, other that the idiot assumption that anyone critical of copyright law must be involved in piracy?
"if you're worried about free speech what are you doing for pussy riot?"
So, nobody can be concerned about free speech in their own country if they're not also protesting Russian law?
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Private Prosecutions
Yes, that's right. Though the option isn't often pursued, we have private prosecution over here too.
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Jury instructions found in the official transcript:
How to tell he is a witch and/or a copyright violator?:
Judge Evans: There are ways of telling whether he is a witch and/or a copyright violator.
Jury: Are there? Oh well, tell us.
Judge Evans: Tell me. What do you do with witches and/or a copyright violators?
Jury: Burn them.
Judge Evans: And what do you burn, apart from witches and/or a copyright violators?
Jury: More witches and/or a copyright violators.
Jury: Wood.
Judge Evans: Good. Now, why do witches and/or a copyright violators burn?
Jury: ...because they're made of... wood?
Judge Evans: Good. So how do you tell whether he is made of wood?
Jury: Build a bridge out of him.
Judge Evans: But can you not also build bridges out of stone?
Jury: Oh yeah.
Judge Evans: Does wood sink in water?
Jury: No, no, it floats!... It floats! Throw him into the pond!
Judge Evans: No, no. What else floats in water?
Jury: Bread.
Jury: Apples.
Jury: Very small rocks.
Jury: Cider.
Jury: Gravy.
Jury: Cherries.
Jury: Mud.
Jury: Churches.
Jury: Lead! Lead!
Jury: A Duck.
Judge Evans: ...Exactly. So, logically...
Jury: If he weighed the same as a duck... he's made of wood.
Judge Evans: And therefore...
Jury: ...A witch and/or a copyright violator!
Sad to say, but this is how I imagine it went down, just not as funny when the verdict came out.
They say justice is blind, but it can also be deaf (at least when the defense is speaking), in this case.
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I actually think this is a positive. Imagine what we could do if we the people could bring perjury charges against the *IAAs for all the false DMCA takedowns they send.
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Freehadist? Are you really comparing the loss of money to terrorism?
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Awesome solution, dude.
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Documents from SurfTheChannel
I don't know how long they'll last up there, but I've posted a copy of the files online here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12006183/misc762.zip
(7.5 mb Zip, non encrypted)
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I don't know if this will end up killing my dropbox account so someone grab it and share it out there somewhere that can survive possible takedown attempts.. dunno, wikileaks maybe?
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Talk to some anime fans sometime.
Ask them how many of them have pirated their anime.
I bet over 90% of them have.
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Are you talking about Cary Sherman here?
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Taxes don't drop due to "piracy".
But the money gets spent elsewhere and taxes get paid on that activity.
Only three things actually cause less overall taxes to be paid. One is an explicit tax cut. Another is explicit tax evasion. The third is a contraction of the economy.
Taxes are paid on most economic activity, absent tax evasion, so for taxes to shrink overall requires the economy to shrink overall or the tax rate to shrink. It's simple math.
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Thank you to all our supporters
It can cost hundreds of thousands of pounds to prosecute an infringer, especially in cases such as this where the crown refuses to prosecute. With your continued support, we pledge to lobby the parliament and courts to recognise copyright theft as a crime; and until they do, we will protect creators by prosecuting these criminals on other legal grounds and in other legal jurisdictions.
While our actions have a few vocal opponents, sales figures make it clear that the vast majority of people are on our side. Your backing will ensure our future success.
Cheers,
FACT.
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Re: Thank you to all our supporters
"While our actions have a few vocal opponents, sales figures make it clear that the vast majority of people are on our side. Your backing will ensure our future success."
What sales figures? Don't your own reports say that you lose TRILLIONS of dollars/pounds/euros every year?
How can you afford this?
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That sentance really made me laugh. According to the MPAA piracy costs them Millions. So to prosecute someone would only cost tens of thousands of pounds and yet they still loose millions. So money is still lost to the MPAA even when they do prosecute lol
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If the shoe fits.....
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No, I understand that completely. My point is that the police /cps have a hard time in cases like this because they are use to dealing mostly with "obvious" crime, aka stolen car, broken window, theft of a solid object. Conspiracy type charges are MUCH harder for police to put together because they are unable to see the basic crime involved. Most conspiracies that are prosecuted at this level come because they investigated an underlying crime, and "found" the conspiracy.
More than anything, you should take from this case the simple conclusion that, while the police were unable to "make" the case, the music industry people followed it up and forced the issue, and were able to make the case in front of the courts. This sort of shows that law enforcement are not well equipped to deal with this sort of economic crime.
"I'm very familiar with the case even without including the information I've read on Techdirt. "
I would say then that you are reading the same stuff as Mike, and drawing the same conclusion (evil music industry buying justice) rather than perhaps seeing that there is a difference between what the police see as crime and what the courts understand as crime.
Moral outrage is easy. Thinking about the full story is harder, you may want to try it. You need to remove your blinders and read both sides, not just the side you like.
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Hmmm.. maybe that's what TD needs, a D notice for trolls.
I'll let you decide what the D stands for in that case. Something to do with a protuberance of the male species was my first thought
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1. You're paranoid as bat shit crazy can get.
2. You assume that because Mike likes Google, he was paid by them.
3. You may or may not work for Oracle systems.
4. You haven't made a clame about how that article is on any way connected to Mike Mansick himself and cannot back your claims up properly because you're only in grade school trying to be a big man.
5. That by your logic, EVERYONE should have to pay for using Javasript to make a profit (I cite Minecraft as an example that you can for free)
You're a sock puppet.
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"I am tempted to mark it as "insightful" because I think it should be read, but I can't quite do it because to me "insightful" just implies that I find the points made a reasonable interpretation of the facts, and I don't."
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Re: Documents from SurfTheChannel
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Mike Masnick
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Then why did your silly analogy to crack houses specifically state that the police brought charges, when that wasn't the case here? If you're going to be making such stupid stories up, at least make them consistent with the truth.
"More than anything, you should take from this case the simple conclusion that, while the police were unable to "make" the case, the music industry people followed it up and forced the issue"
...which is the exact point being criticised. Nobody actually committing a crime was prosecuted, the industry just managed to get an easy prosecution for someone who not only wasn't hosting any infringing material, he had links to perfectly legal services under contract. It achieves nothing, stops nothing, has serious implications for otherwise perfectly legal services and other possible unintended consequences. Why you think that such a dangerous precedent that does absolutely nothing positive is a good thing is beyond me.
You seem to be saying that the police are incapable of identifying a conspiracy, so your corporation have to come in and point it out for them. Not only is that ridiculous, but it's also dangerous if a real defense is not allowed and followed through (as seems to be the case here).
"I would say then that you are reading the same stuff as Mike, and drawing the same conclusion (evil music industry buying justice)"
You'd "say", but you'd be wrong, hence your regular strawman attacks. You're not honest enough to work out why, though.
"You need to remove your blinders and read both sides, not just the side you like."
You first. Try addressing my actual words for starters, instead of assuming that everyone here is a hive mind copying Mike rather than stating their own honestly held opinions. Your regular lies about me and distortions of my positions don't help with your claims that you're doing anything other than attacking and/or trolling.
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Anonymous Coward.
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Re: Documents from SurfTheChannel
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"I am tempted to mark it as "insightful" because I think it should be read, but I can't quite do it because to me "insightful" just implies that I find the points made a reasonable interpretation of the facts, and I don't."
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Anything Wrong?
If there are truly some folks around that "support" this event I applaud you as you are grotesque, disingenuous, blatantly one-sided ("my side" as it were) and a blatant threat the the rule of law, any law, the actual rule of the actual law. This example is a mind numbing assault on said rule bearing with it potentially disastrous consequences.
If this is how you choose to represent your interests, much less actual artists, then you, truly, deserve the loss of your heads.
Judge Evans? You do dishonor, in the highest degree, to your stated profession. Aggravated dishonor even.
This little event is kind of the frosting for me I think.
Fuck copyright.
Fuck the artist's "representation".
Fuck the extra-legal systems.
and if you support or are enthusiastic about this travesty of justice then.. fuck you.
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Surfthechannel Criminal Conviction Driven By Hollywood Money
One thing really sickens me, they have the arrogance of crying conspiracy to defraud at anyone who is stupid enough to listen and believe their manipulated reports and lies!
From my own personal experience of having to fight FACT and the Police through 18 months of hell, there is no doubt in my mind that many aspects of FACT's so-called case, were nothing more than trumped up lies, manipulation as well as the withholding of selected evidence, resulting in a fiasco of a kangaroo trial and a complete miscarriage of justice.
The fact that they can continue to get away with such dirty underhanded tactics, over and over again, progressively getting more devious and underhanded, case after case and without ever being questioned about the legality of their methods and actions, let alone being held accountable for their wrong-doing, is totally unbelievable.
Cases such as these should make everyone ask, just how far up the ladder does this corruption go? Example... I know for sure that the Attorney General was involved in the FACT Vs Filesoup case!.
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Maybe we should start sending letters and emails to MPAA/RIAA/FACT types saying only "It" over and over again, and they will fade into history along with all the other past snake oil salesmen and flimflammers too.
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I have a website supporting the ripping off of artists.
RIAA.COM
and
MPAA.ORG
FTFY
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Re: Britian is going down
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