Big Banks Finally Punishing Employees For Fraud... Like The Call Center Guy Who Used A Fake Dime 50 Years Ago
from the rules-are-rules? dept
Wells Fargo, of course, was one of a bunch of the big banks heavily involved in questionable activities that brought the world to the precarious economic conditions we're still living in today. Just a few weeks ago, the company settled charges that it had misled cities and non-profits when selling them risky securities without disclosing the risks. The company gets a slap on the wrist -- without having to admit guilt -- and one executive (again without admitting guilt) gets a six month suspension. Have you heard about any top execs at any of the banks getting fired for financial malfeasance? No? Well, perhaps it's because they're focusing on the real trouble makers. Like Richard Eggers. 49 years ago, Eggers, as a teenager, tried to stick a cardboard cutout of a dime into a washing machine. He didn't get away with it at the time, and was arrested for fraud. He somehow put his life back together and, until recently, was a phone customer service agent for Wells Fargo.And now he's really paying the piper: Wells Fargo has just fired him for the decades-old incident that, again, involved a dime. Even accounting for inflation, we're talking about a dime. However, thanks to supposedly "tough" new regulations concerning financial institutions, barring them from employing execs convicted of fraud, Wells Fargo is claiming that it had to fire Eggers.
“We don’t have discretion to grant exceptions in situations like this. Once we find out someone has a criminal history of dishonesty or breach of trust we can no longer employ them.”Eggers has responded by filing a civil rights complaint against the company and federal regulators. He and his lawyers are hoping to turn it into a class action lawsuit, as apparently a number of other employees at banks have lost their jobs under these rules. Actual execs responsible for the financial crisis? Not so much.
This is yet another case where laws like this must "sound good at the time" to the policy makers putting them together without any sense of who it will really impact. And the end result is that we sure are making Mr. Eggers "pay" for that dime stunt in 1963, huh?
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: banks, firing, fraud, regulations, richard eggers, scams
Companies: wells fargo
Reader Comments
The First Word
“His Mistake
If he had made a fake quarter they would have promoted him.Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I'm not sure how things happen in the US, but I'd definitely be OK with hiring someone who's merely been arrested for something with the charges later dropped. It was probably brought up during the interview and accepted for what it actually was (a dumb prank by a dumb kid), not the entire basis of someone's character. Given that the guy seems to have kept his nose clean since, I don't see the problem.
But then, the real question is not why he was hired in the first place, but why it's been OK for nearly 50 years and then the guy is fired with no evidence of further wrongdoing. I'd hate for my employer to start looking at what I did when I was a teenager and then judge my current character and employability on that rather than what I've done in the mean time, as would most people.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
His Mistake
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: His Mistake
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: His Mistake
If he'd gotten away with it, he'd be fine.
And no doubt if he'd convinced the laundrette that the only reason he'd tried the stunt was because he was so desperately poor, and really it's good for society as a whole for him to have clean clothes, and so they'd ended up giving him free laundry service for life, *then* he'd certainly not be a lowly call center guy...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: His Mistake
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: His Mistake
Equally, swindle one person out of their money, it's fraud, swindle millions, it's an accounting error.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: His Mistake
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: His Mistake
Hunter S. Thompson
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: His Mistake
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Fascism ...
I want more bread and more circuses.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Fascism ...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Fascism ...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I hope this turns into a class action and they win. It would be one small victory.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
If you going to be bad -- be good at it....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
God, we're such a vindictive society.
Let's just kill everybody who ever makes a mistake. We'll be a law-abiding... wasteland. Nice.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
As has been pointed out, convicting a teenager for fraud over 10 cents is the real problem here. Stupid, vindictive prosecutors were as much a problem as now (re: teenagers getting put on the sex offender registry for sex acts with other teenagers) and while you can blame the bank - and I can certainly see why it's tempting to raise a parallel to how no executives have been charged with anything despite the gross, obvious malfeasance - it's really irrelevant. A fraud conviction is supposed to be a complete, unequivocal red flag for those involved in banking, and he has one. I think it's not worth a guy losing his job over, but there's no legitimate way to carve out this particular situation from the law without making a mess of things.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
And in the end, what does that achieve? The person gets his/her life ruined for some minor theft and is restricted from getting decent jobs that would offer decent wages and maybe, just maybe, allow then to live a normal life, have a decent family and be a better person. Nah, let us fuck up their entire lives even if they learned and won't do it again. Welcome to America, my friends.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
While that's a problem, it's not the only one. Another problem is that there exists this bizarre one-strike-and-you're-out idea.
Things like this cannot be handled by blanket policy. If we're to have anything that can be called "justice" without laughing, then these cases have to be looked at on their own individual merits.
If someone commits fraud in their youth, but then lives for half a century more without committing any crime whatsoever, there is no rational reason to trust them any less than someone who never committed fraud. People make mistakes, and a single case of poor judgement while young does not indicate the person is criminal by nature.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Really? Is it really the case that the combined might of the entire judicial system and financial regulatory authorities of the US is unable to distinguish a teenager making a cardboard dime from a financial fraudster?
Because if that's the case then your country is screwed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Well, they do have to report it, but their hands are not completely tied.
They can appeal to the regulators on a case by case basis for common sense to win out.
But that takes effort, and with the current state of the economy, it is easier to replace him than to bother with appealing. If however, it was a high-paid exec who had a similar 10-cent fraud conviction - you bet they would appeal.
(Full disclosure: I work for the bank mentioned in this story. I don't work with customer data, but I am in the information security and access control group and have had to pass similar checks.)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Well, they do have to report it, but their hands are not completely tied.
They can appeal to the regulators on a case by case basis for common sense to win out.
But that takes effort, and with the current state of the economy, it is easier to replace him than to bother with appealing. If however, it was a high-paid exec who had a similar 10-cent fraud conviction - you bet they would appeal.
(Full disclosure: I work for the bank mentioned in this story. I don't work with customer data, but I am in the information security and access control group and have had to pass similar checks.)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Lucky catch!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Fake Impotence
Yes you do, Head of Internal Douchebaggery, yes you do.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Issue is the State Regulation...
As usual, the use of force/coercion in an apparant attempt to solve a complex social issue results in much more harm than good.
The initiation of force is immoral, in all forms (force/coercion/theft/fraud) no matter what label is placed on the individual(s).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Thieves don't like other thieves stealing their stolen loot!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Seriously though...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Does anyone here really think that we will recover from this economic slump with anything short of a beer hall putsch?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
In simple terms Keynes actually advocated a 7 fat/7 skinny cows approach to economics. If governments implement it correctly they should store up cash and equity during the good years, then spend it during the bad years - maintaining somewhat of a balance.
The countries who got in trouble at the back end of 2000's were following whogivesafuckian economic theory which basically takes a sell everything that's worth anything and spend, spend, spend. (UK and labour on vanity projects like the Dome, US on the war machine).
What happened is these governments were suddenly faced with the banks being unable to keep up the charade, and as the walls came tumbling down they suddenly switched to Keynesian economics which advocated... spend (more) money to kickstart the economy. Brilliant.
tl;dr:-
Keynesian economic theory advocates that govs save during the fat times, spend during the lean times. These governments spent during the fat times, then used Keynes to justify spending during the lean times.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Keynes philosophy revolves around two pieces, and without both you DO NOT have a Keynesian policy. Everyone knows the second piece - deficit spend during a recession.
But the first part is perhaps even more important. It's not just about saving up money during the boom times. You actually want to raise taxes (or take other measures which inhibit growth) during boom times, to prevent the economy from "overheating" so to speak.
For example, it would have been appropriate to raise the interest rate back in the mid 2000's. This could have stopped or at least mitigated the housing bubble. As a bonus, this might have also led to a surplus which could have been used to avoid borrowing to pay for stimulus.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Iceland
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
That was a dark path he was heading down. First a dime, next a quarter!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Dimes man, dimes
Fake dimes are a gateway drug to piracy.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
F*CK Wells Fargo
Wells Fargo made me take my money out of their bank, telling me I could come back when it was fixed. I got AOL to admit fault, pay the fees, and got the records removed from Chex Systems [as if it had never happened]. When I went back to WF with my money, the manager spoke to me like I was a dirty hobo asking for a handout, and told me I was not allowed to have an account with Wells Fargo for seven years. All over $32 which I owed to SOMEONE ELSE, and which wasn't my fault.
Yeah, as if I'd just be begging to give my money back to Wells Fargo ever again. So F*ck Wells Fargo. They will never, ever see a single dime of my money, ever.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Disproportionate Retribution
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Your Job
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It's called sticking up for the little guy. But, instead they took the easy way out and fired the guy...they're not my banking institution of choice anyway, but I'd NEVER do business with them...immoral cretins.
This is exactly why banks can't be trusted...they can't even understand how to comply with a regulation. What a joke! They need to take some accountability for their actions and stop blaming the government. Frickin idiots!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
WTF!?!?
We are being choked to death by psychopaths---they're running everything, it seems.
I guess Metalliwhore--I mean, Metallica--was right when they named their first album Kill 'Em All.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]