Hollywood Star Rosario Dawson Speaks Out Against Hollywood's 'Six Strikes' Plan

from the speak-out dept

Fri, Oct 12th 2012 8:36am — Mike Masnick

To hear the MPAA and RIAA tell the story, they represent "the entertainment world." They like to pretend that they represent all of the actual content creators, but more and more people are realizing the truth: they represent the legacy gatekeepers, who have often done more to screw over the actual artists than to help them. So, as we get closer and closer to the silly "six strikes" plan that the MPAA and RIAA worked out with ISPs, it's good to see that some of those they pretend to represent are speaking out against the plan. Actress Rosario Dawson has taken to Twitter to speak out against the plan:

ISPs caving to copyright holders- could shut off your Internet if you're accused of piracy...! bit.ly/VRNLFa via @demandprogress
— Rosario Dawson (@rosariodawson) October 11, 2012

If you can't read that, it says:

ISPs caving to copyright holders- could shut off your Internet if you're accused of piracy...!

And then it links to DemandProgress' petition to the ISPs telling them not to support the six strikes plans or subscribers will take their business elsewhere. Of course, for too many customers, "elsewhere" isn't an option, thanks to a lack of a truly competitive market. Either way, as we saw with the SOPA fight, more and more artists -- musicians, actors, writers, etc. -- are making it clear that the RIAA & MPAA don't represent them, and they know part of these crazy plans that are being pushed in their names. Kudos to Dawson for speaking up.

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Filed Under: hollywood, isps, rosario dawson, six strikes
Companies: mpaa, riaa

275 Comments

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Skeptical Cynic (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:05am

What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
Sure there have been some artists that have shown support for this or that thing from the MPAA or RIAA but you never really hear of any artist coming out to say "Hey I think the MPAA or RIAA does a good thing for artists"?

Or defend the 'AA's actions when they do something and claim it is in the interest of the artists they represent?
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Jay (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:39am

Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
That's just it. The MPAA doesn't have those people. When Dodd was restricting, he talked about how "he fight want actors in the line of fire" to all 50 attorney generals. I took that to mean that he didn't have a lot of grassroots support for issues that affect people. You won't hear from a lot of actors in support because there are none.
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Zakida Paul (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:41am

I am noticing that it tends to be the older musicians/actors/creators who got famous off the old gate keeper system who are in support of MPAA and RIAA. Newer up-and-coming creators tend to see the value of using all the distribution technology to their advantage.

The only people represented by MPAA/RIAA are the corporate bean counters, they do not give a crap about the artists.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:44am

more and more artists -- musicians, actors, writers, etc. -- are making it clear that the RIAA & MPAA don't represent them

No there aren't. There are random examples.

There are hundreds of thousands of musicians and actors that do not want their work taken without permission.

You never talk about that majority though.

You only laud those that support your pro-piracy agenda.

You are truly a sociopath.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:46am

Its already here... November 28 it launches.
I wonder how whoever is supposed to be in charge of them will respond to them blocking paying customers use of the net based on allegations made by a firm that failed BT 101.

https://torrentfreak.com/att-starts-six-strikes-anti-piracy-plan-next-month-will-block-websi tes-121012/
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Zakida Paul (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:47am

Re:
And you are truly an idiot *thumbsup*
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:59am

Re:
No "billions of musicians and actors" is more accurate.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:04am

Re:
"that do not want their work taken without permission"

... has little to do with agreeing to the means pushed by the RIAA & MPAA who do not represent artists but the main industry contenders living off their work.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:07am

Re:
False dichotomy.

You can think that the actions of RIAA & MPAA are harmful and also not want your work taken without permission at the same time.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:08am

maybe rosario should stop pirating media
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That One Guy (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:10am

A thought...
Just occurred to me, but if this does go through, and people start losing their net connections, this could end up being the very best way to make the public aware of just how monopolized the ISP business is in the US.

If people start getting the boot from the ISP's, look around for a replacement only to realize they have no replacement they can go to, it might get the public at large to finally realize, and start talking about, how few choices there actually are, due to how few companies there are in the ISP market.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Zakida Paul (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:12am

Re: A thought...
It's also a good way to finish off the economy as well.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:16am

Working Together to Stop Internet Piracy
�Working Together to Stop Internet Piracy� by Victoria Espinel, U.S. Intellectual Property Enforcement Coordinator, The White House Blog, July 2011:

The Administration is committed to reducing infringement of American intellectual property as part of our ongoing commitment to support jobs, increase exports and maintain our global competitiveness.

The joining of Internet service providers and entertainment companies in a cooperative effort to combat online�.��.�.

That's Barack Obama's administration, coming at you from The White House Blog.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:23am

Obama Administration Cozy With Hollywood
�U.S. Copyright Czar Cozied Up to Content Industry, E-Mails Show� by David Kravets, Wired Threat Level, July 2011:

Top-ranking Obama administration officials, including the U.S. copyright czar, played an active role in secret negotiations between Hollywood, the recording industry and ISPs to disrupt internet access for users suspected of violating copyright law, according to internal White House e-mails.

The e-mails, obtained via the Freedom of Information Act, show the administration�s cozy relationship with Hollywood�.�.�.�.

Don't forget to vote!
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Machin Shin (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:23am

So I'm rather curious, if I'm paying an ISP for service and suddenly they are not providing said service, isn't that a breach of contract? Seems to me that legally they cannot do what they are planning unless they get all the end users to agree to it. I know this will not stop them, but I do see room for future legal battles over this.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:27am

Re:
Name a few. Preferably ones that released something new sometime within the last 10 years.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:27am

Re:
Read your Terms Of Service agreement.

Infringement is illegal. They could cut you loose right then and there if they felt like it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:29am

Re:
I wonder how long it'll take for them to try to sue a dead person? That was always good for a laugh back in the day.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:29am

Re:
Yeah well except your claim of blocking is bullshit. Throttling to make your stealing more difficult, yes. Blocking, no.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:30am

Re: Re:
Just about everyone that puts something out with a price on it instead of giving it away.

Duh.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
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average_joe (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:30am

Re:
No there aren't. There are random examples.

There are hundreds of thousands of musicians and actors that do not want their work taken without permission.

You never talk about that majority though.

You only laud those that support your pro-piracy agenda.

You are truly a sociopath.

Amen.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:30am

Re: A thought...
I can see you guys are in full FUD mode. Your connection can get throttled, not disconnected.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:33am

Re: Re:
... is illegal.

So is horizontal price fixing.

Competitors agreeing to fix prices for consumers at $35 is a pe se violation of Sherman Act � 1.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
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average_joe (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:33am

Re: Re:
Can't wait for all the whining to begin. You know the zealots will be salivating for any story they can prance on that discredits the program. Any and every single sliver of a story will be blown up to ridiculous proportions. There won't be any fairness or balance in the "reporting." Mike's already chomping at the bit.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:34am

Re: Obama Administration Cozy With Hollywood
Yes, please vote in the Republicans who are far less concerned about property rights and less aggressive law enforcement.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Forest_GS (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:35am

Re:
Citation strongly needed. Or else you will be considered a troll with comments like that here.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
trish, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:37am

>:D
I can only wish for qapla in striking this plan down whee it stands. /nerd :D
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:38am

Re: Re: Re:
Well, going by Hadopi's history, it's only a matter of time before Six Strikes discredits itself.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Zakida Paul (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:40am

Re: Re: Re:
That just sounds like Hollywood reporting. Why can't idiots like you see that?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:43am

the problem is that the artists that speak out against what the various ISPs are doing, like the ordinary people, have no clout. the politicians are not interested in listening to anyone other than their friends in the entertainment industries, simply because they will want another nice cushy job when the one they have in Congress finishes. on top of that, the Government have made such a screw up of the internet access being restricted in so many places, there is no competition. that means people have no option of changing ISP. the even more stupid thing is that whatever crap hits the ISPs, because they are paying for everything to carry on protecting the old business model that the entertainment industries insist on continuing with, the industries are not in the least bit interested or worried
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:45am

Re: Re:
Yeah, piracy is theft. That's why the RIAA doesn't sell music anymore; pirates stole all the files.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Baldaur Regis (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:46am

Re: Re:
Did you bother to read the reference article at all?
Customers whose accounts are repeatedly flagged for alleged copyright infringements will have their access to frequently visited websites blocked, until they complete an online copyright course.
Can you find a citation for your "Throttling to make your stealing more difficult" comment?
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Forest_GS (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:48am

I can't wait until I get a chance to use "I can't be held responsible for what my computer is programed to download" argument.

It worked so well for the false DMCA claims.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:48am

Re: Re: A thought...
And then you get sued.
"After the fifth alert, the content owner may pursue legal action against the customer, and may seek a court order requiring AT&T to turn over personal information to assist the litigation."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
azuravian (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:48am

Re: Re:
How many actors and musicians are there in the world? Hint: The answer is not "billions"
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:51am

Re: Re: Obama Administration Cozy With Hollywood
"Look, our opponents are evil! Pay no attention to the fact that we are also evil."
Yeah, how about instead of pointing fingers, you tell your paymasters to actually shape up and become decent human beings? Maybe they could start by giving money to charity instead of paying people like you to deface websites with spam comments.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:52am

Re: Re: Re:
When they start suing dead people again, there won't be any need to blow up the story; it'll already be at ridiculous proportions.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:53am

Re: Re: Re:
That's because you aren't using Hollywood accounting.

According to Hollywood, there are about 3 billion musicians and actors in the US alone. Also, according to Hollywood, at least 5 billion (that's around 92% of them, according to their math) support the six strikes plan.
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average_joe (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:54am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yeah, HADOPI's a total failure: http://www.barrysookman.com/2012/10/10/the-french-hadopi-law-its-history-operation-and-effectiveness /
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Trails (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:59am

Didn't think it was possible...
Rosario Dawson just got hotter.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:03am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I know you are going to piss on this because it is from TorrentFreak, but, whatever:

http://torrentfreak.com/three-strikes-anti-piracy-budget-too-expensive-to-justify-says- minister-120603/
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:04am

Re: Re:
RTFA
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:07am

Re: Re: Re:
Why discredit them when they did it themselves.
They merged with something else but its the same idiots the RIAA had last time.

https://torrentfreak.com/riaa-anti-piracy-partner-clueless-about-bittorrent-091028/
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:08am

Re: Didn't think it was possible...
Dude, that's like infinity plus 1.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:10am

Re: Re: Re:
Yeah... who exactly? Can you give a list of names or do you still want us to not believe what you're saying?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:10am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
http://www.fastcompany.com/3001736/hulu-struggles-survive-influence-its-parent-companies?utm_source

From the vantage point of the executives, it is Kilar who is the demanding and overbearing partner. Upon realizing that NBC and Fox were not going to allot him enough new episodes to create a meaningful warehouse of content, Kilar made a wish list of back episodes. When the networks told him that many of those programs either hadn't been digitized or had digital rights that were still frozen, Kilar continued to press. "There were some very uncomfortable phone calls," says one former Fox executive. "There was a lot of 'Jason, that's just not reasonable.'"
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:11am

Re: Re: Re:
Can you find a citation for your "Throttling to make your stealing more difficult" comment?

Let's see. If it once took you an hour to download an infringing movie and your bandwidth is necked down to the size of a straw taking 12 hours to download the same movie, I'd say that would make it more difficult.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:11am

Re: Re: Re:
So stop whining and sue them. If you're right, you'll win. If you're wrong you can go sit down.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
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Baldaur Regis (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:13am

Re: Re:
Hey joe - fuck you and fuck all your "I'm a lawyer!" bullshit. You're not a lawyer, you're not going to law school, you're just another choad who knows how to look stuff up. You're not even a very good troll. All those outraged reactions? I was faking them.
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Machin Shin (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:15am

Re: Re:
Yes infringement is illegal, but if you cut me off and I did not infringe then where does that put you? I can download copyrighted material WITHOUT infringing. How can anyone tell for sure if I did or not without a lot more investigation than these guys are going to do?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:16am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Torrent Freak is indeed biased, but at least Ernesto isn't a straight-up sociopathic liar like Masnick.

Masnick can't even admit that he's a pirate, even though he's devoted his life to defending the practice of ripping off people.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:18am

Kudos to Dawson for speaking up.

Figures you fail to mention her FUD-laced lie that could shut off your Internet if you're accused of piracy

You know it's a lie but as it serves your own purpose (deliberately spreading FUD) you ignore it. Another slip down the slimy slope.
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Ruben, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:19am

Re:
Maybe she would if big media gave her what she wanted. Where can I get Beiber's or Coldplay's latest release in FLAC? Or Avatar in 1080p MKV file? I know where, and you won't like the answer.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Milton Freewater, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:20am

Re: Re:
"Read your Terms Of Service agreement.

Infringement is illegal. They could cut you loose right then and there if they felt like it."

Infringement is often perfectly legal, but yes, they can fairly cut you loose for all kinds of reasons, including a false or incorrect accusation.

If this creates a demand for competition in broadband services, it will have improved all of our lives. These little monopolies need to be broken for several reasons.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:21am

Re: Re: Re:
Yes infringement is illegal, but if you cut me off and I did not infringe then where does that put you? I can download copyrighted material WITHOUT infringing. How can anyone tell for sure if I did or not without a lot more investigation than these guys are going to do?

You ignore the appeals process. If you are cited and lose six appeals, I'd say you probably deserve what comes next.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:24am

Re: Re: Re: A thought...
And get an award of damages that they cannot collect. Further none of the money that do collect will go to the artists; it will not even cover the legal bills so their will be less money to pay the artists.
Piracy takes money away from the artists; QED.
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Ruben, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:24am

Re:
So then, there's no consequence of six strikes? I thought that was the whole point. A cheap way for entertainment companies to enact negative consequences for file sharers.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Milton Freewater, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:24am

Re:
"Figures you fail to mention her FUD-laced lie that could shut off your Internet if you're accused of piracy"

It's paranoia but it's not technically a lie - they COULD, and they want us to believe they might. The point is to scare people away from torrenting with the threat of unnamed consequences.

This FUD is bring spread by rightsholders for the purposes of the rightsholders.

In fact, maybe Dawson is in on it! I doubt it, but just saying.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:24am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Oh no, that would require actually doing something more than signing a petition, sending a form e-mail or sniveling into an echo chamber.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:25am

Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Simple solution: Don't break the law. Then you won't have a problem.

See how easy that was?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:27am

Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Yeah, so? NEWSFLASH:People are already getting sued with zero strikes.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:29am

Re: Re: Re:
... if you cut me off and I did not infringe then where does that put you?

Fork over $35 to arbitrate each accusation. Or you're guilty.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:30am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
You're so adorable when you play stupid.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
average_joe (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:34am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I know you are going to piss on this because it is from TorrentFreak, but, whatever:

I love torrentfreak. They are honest about their beliefs. Thanks for the link.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:34am

Re: Re:
There is no provision (beyond what already exist in TOS) to cut off anyone's internet service under the six strikes MOU. Many may find being throttled to dial-up speeds a negative consequence.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:35am

Re: Re:
Check your TOS, I'll bet you can be kicked off for serial infringing right now.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:40am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Don't you think Attorney-General Holder should be involved? The DoJ guidelines call for criminal prosecution of naked, horizontal price-fixing cases. It is deemed a felony.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
MrWilson, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
And you're hilarious when you make broad sweeping assumptions and assertions about people who you don't know personally but just like to speak for them, the same way the **AA's speak for them, without actually knowing or caring about their opinions.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ruben, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:44am

Re: Re: Re:
So then, you can get your internet cut off because of six strikes notices.

And how will they be able to discern illegitimate traffic if everything is encrypted?

This is doomed to be an ineffectual waste of everyone's time.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:45am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
um, we were humoring you.

It isn't price-fixing, Einstein.

The sale price of a product isn't being fixed.

This is like you complaining that 6 different towns all have $25 parking tickets.

"but, but... price-fixing!!!"

lol
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
I do not think anyone disagree with that, but the point is:
If it is such a horrible waste of money to go after pirates, why not do something to turn the pirates into customers instead of ruining their future? Thus not EOF yet.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:56am

Re: Re: Re:
Infringement is often perfectly legal

No it isn't.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:58am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
OK, 1) I'll accept the compliment about being adorable and 2) I like to play stupid. Because we want answers! How are we supposed to get those if we know them, hm? Can you please make a list so we might give a crap about your crazy idea? If not... then continue on attacking me. It appears you have nothing better to do.

If you have nothing, then say it. If you do, then say so. It's up to the others to decide whether or not to call you a liar or telling the truth.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:59am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
US DoJ: An Antitrust Primer For Federal Law Enforcement Personnel

Elements of a Section 1 Offense. Criminal prosecution under Section 1 of the Sherman Act requires only the existence of concerted action in restraint of trade � specifically, an agreement among competitors to fix prices, rig bids, or allocate markets. The agreement must be between two or more independent business entities or individuals.�.�.�

Agreement among competitors.
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
And the source to back this up?
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John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:00am

Re: Re:
Throttling to make your stealing more difficult, yes.

Wait, wait, wait. So they're only going to be throttling people who are actually engaging in copyright violations? When did they change that?

My understanding was that they were going to be throttling people who were accused of copyright violations. That's a pretty huge difference, considering that false accusations are common.

Also, how are they going to know who's engaging in copyright violations? Is somebody actually going to investigate these things? When are they going to start this new practice?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Scott, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
I think It already did
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John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:02am

Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
If it were that simple, then there wouldn't be much opposition to the idea.

But it's not. Breaking the law isn't what triggers these actions.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:03am

Re: Re: Re: Obama Administration Cozy With Hollywood
Says AC to AC... Both parties are equally wrong on this. If you read the internal EU notes on ACTA negotiations, you will see that Bush was implied as being extremely pushy on these issues. It is not made clear if anything changed with Obama, but I assume that it is about the same same. Businessman Romney and mr. Ryan are unlikely to take a different stance.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:03am

Re: Re: Re:
I was going to give them back, I swear.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:04am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yes, you're playing stupid when you suggest that all those people that put their work up for sale are actually just saying "oh, we're just kidding! Please take this for free without our permission!".

lol
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:04am

Re: Re:
Again, you're assuming that people affected are certainly infringing. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Glen, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:04am

Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Here is an even simpler solution. Provide the customer what they want. Hell, I'll be happy to pay for it if it is available.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:05am

Re: Re: Re:
Yes, but they'd have to prove it. With six strikes, no evidence is necessary.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:05am

Re: Re: Re:
Your invective doesn't reported but Joe's does.

Only on Techdirt.

Here is what Joe said:

"No there aren't. There are random examples.

There are hundreds of thousands of musicians and actors that do not want their work taken without permission.

You never talk about that majority though.

You only laud those that support your pro-piracy agenda.

You are truly a sociopath.

Amen."
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The Real Michael, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:09am

This 'six strikes plan' is going to have rather serious social, political and economic repurcussions. The question is, given the current state of our economy, not to mention the tremendous burden already on our legal system, can we afford to be shutting off internet users? Suppose somebody relies on the internet for business, important contacts, filling out taxes, etc. ...and they get disconnected. Suppose people are falsely accused -- what recourse do they have? We're talking about potentially thousands of people being affected, all for the sake of the MPAA & RIAA.

In summary, multi-billion dollar industries' right to exploit the internet for profit supercedes your right to access it.
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:10am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So I'll take it as "I got nothing." OK, good to hear! Fun fact: when I'm finally to the point of making money, I won't give a crap if people download my work for free or not because if people are looking at my work, then that means something special to mean. Do I care about not getting any money off it? Not really. Since I would have a full-time job to help pay for things, I will work on my creations as a side-project and decide if I want to put them up for sale or not.

So... personally I don't care if people look at my stuff. I love it if they do! They can make as many copies as they like. I'm cool with it. As for you, get off my back! I don't need the likes of you "representing" me and say that I'm against this sort of thing.
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MrWilson, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:11am

Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
**AA's: "You can't break that law. I paid for it fair and square!"
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:13am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
This discussion is about a policy in the United States.

You have access to content legally via dozens of aggregators in the US.

itunes, spotify, amazon, pandora, MOG, netflix, and on and on and on and on...

It looks like today is "Freetards Play More Stupid Than Usual On Techdirt " day.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:14am

Re: Re: Re:
"Can't wait for all the whining to begin."

It already has. You and your fellow AC trolls won't stfu already. I see also you've already started the usual high-fiving for lame comments.

"You know the zealots will be salivating for any story they can prance on that discredits the program."

Change that last word to "author" and you've got your usual MO. "Pirate Mike" blah blah blah.

Lord knows that the actions of the ISPs being done at the behest of studios/labels can't possibly be considered wrong and excessive, even by those that aren't pirates. /s

"Any and every single sliver of a story will be blown up to ridiculous proportions."

Again, sounds like you and yours usual modus operandi. Quite some time after the judge made Google list anyone who may have written about them we still have certain AC's claiming Mike is a Google shill.

"There won't be any fairness or balance in the "reporting.""

Oh, so you weren't aware that this isn't a news site ala CNN or ABC? Well, it isn't. it's a site with a handful of writers presenting news along with their opinions on it.

But again, the MO reeks of something you and yours would do. Lest we forget the secret-ish reports which have basically said, "All the money in the world? Yeah, not enough to equal all the losses due to piracy." Yeah, real fair and balanced "reporting" there. Definitely not made up nonsense to try and sway idiots/politicians. /s

"Mike's already chomping at the bit."

And you're already chomping at the opportunity to piss and moan about Mike.

Either grow the fuck up or stop visiting the site. Repeating your whining comments over and over isn't going to change what gets talked about on this site by Mike or anyone else. Nor will it sway anyone to start thinking like you.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:14am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Breaking the law isn't what triggers these actions.

Yes it is.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:14am

Re: Re: Re:
What a douchenozzle. Take a couple of Midol and chill.
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:17am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Sure, Mr. Law, whatever you say...
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MrWilson, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:17am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Masnick can't even admit that he's a pirate, even though he's devoted his life to defending the practice of ripping off people."

You can't even admit that you like to eat poop, even though you've devoted your life to eating poop. What? You don't eat poop? No, I don't have to prove that you do. You have to disprove my claims! Why haven't you answered my insistent questions about poop eating?!? What have you got to hide?

I see why you like making wild, unproven accusations with a self-reinforcing delusion to back them up. It's so much fun just making shit up about other people without having to prove anything.
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The Real Michael, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:19am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
"You have access to content legally via dozens of aggregators in the US.

itunes, spotify, amazon, pandora, MOG, netflix, and on and on and on and on..."

So, in essence, use only the services which the RIAA & MPAA approve of in order to access content, correct? Now suppose I don't want their products? What about all of the content which has nothing to do with them? Will they attack those too?

More to the point, since when did the internet become the property of the RIAA & MPAA?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:25am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
@ #39

read this:
http://torrentfreak.com/anti-piracy-agency-sends-1-15-million-warnings-in-2-years-takes-0-001 2-to-court-120906/

then this:
http://torrentfreak.com/french-3-strikes-court-fines-first-file-sharer-even-though-hes-innoce nt-120813/

then try to tell me the article you link to is a true account of what Hadopi has done!
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:25am

Re:
if you feel you have been falsely accused you can pay $35 to challenge their finding before an arbitrator they pick.
Before then you have a choice of like 5 responses to respond, and they refuse to admit anything made since 1923 could possibly be in the public domain.
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Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:26am

Re: Re: Re:
I've been to at least 7 concerts of popular label shackled artists who have announced sometime during the performance to be sure and hear their new songs/album and they don't give a flip if you download for free as long as you hear the music, tell your friends, and come to the concerts. Musicians are putting music out there. Labels are trying to sell it. Musicians know where the money is for them and it isn't through the gatekeepers.
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Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:30am

Re: Re:
I know that Comcast in my area has been disconnecting users accused of infringement and the user would have to sign some agreement to the fact that they respect copyright and won't infringe again before they would hook 'em back up. And this was over a year ago.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:32am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Why would I download the same movie twice?
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Scott, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:32am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Ditto to that,I just bought Garbage's new album on AmazonMP3 for $9.99 and they had 2 other albums for the same price,I bought those albums anyways for downloading instead of buying it. What made me wanted to buy it was that They're on their own label out of the fact they got sick and tired of UMG hampering on them.
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DogBreath, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:33am

Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Simple solution: Don't break the law. Then you won't have a problem.

See how easy that was?

Then if you have a credit card, you're a downloader of child pornography, because in your world: Accused equals GUILTY.

Oh, wait...

Operation Ore flawed by fraud

Duncan Campbell
The Guardian, Wednesday 18 April 2007

The high-profile crackdown on internet child porn has claimed lives and destroyed reputations. But fresh evidence says the police got it wrong, says Duncan Campbell

Operation Ore has become embedded in public consciousness as the landmark police operation that tracked down people - almost always men - who allegedly paid to access child pornography via computer. In all, 7,272 British residents were on its target lists, more than 2,000 of whom have never been investigated; and 39 men have killed themselves under the pressure of the investigations. Ore has dragged big names into the spotlight - such as the musicians Pete Townshend, the Who guitarist, and Robert del Naja of Massive Attack, both falsely accused of accessing child pornography.

New evidence I have gathered for my work as an expert witness in defence cases shows that thousands of cases under Operation Ore have been built on the shakiest of foundations - the use of credit card details to sign up for pornography websites. In many cases, the card details were stolen; the sites contained nothing or legal material only; and the people who allegedly signed up to visit the sites never went there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_ore

I'm sure the MPAA & RIAA will be more consciousness about this situation, right about the time when Hell freezes over.

But don't do anything illegal and you will be OK. I bet that is what the Nazis told the Jews, right before sending them to the gas chambers.

Yea, that's right, I went there.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:38am

Re: Re: A thought...
I can see you guys are in full FUD mode. Your connection can get throttled, not disconnected.

Funny, then, that the RIAA claims that this can lead to disconnects under the DMCA...

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120727/08520119856/riaas-backdoor-plan-using-six-strik es-plan-to-cut-off-internet-access-people.shtml
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Mike Masnick (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:39am

Re: Re:
Yeah well except your claim of blocking is bullshit. Throttling to make your stealing more difficult, yes. Blocking, no.

Except, again, RIAA is already planning to claim that disconnection is required by law: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120727/08520119856/riaas-backdoor-plan-using-six-strikes-plan-to- cut-off-internet-access-people.shtml
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:40am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Now suppose I don't want their products?

uh, then don't consume them?

duh.

yet again.

We all know that isn't the case of course, tho...
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:42am

Re:
In summary, multi-billion dollar industries' right to exploit the internet for profit supercedes your right to access it.

Piracy largely exists because they do not exploit it. They see it as competition and wish to control or destroy it.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Guilty until proven innocent; fair use doesn't exist.
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akp (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:43am

If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
Here it is (I thought the default text wasn't in depth enough):

"I oppose the "Six Strikes" proposal and the monitoring of users and interference with their Internet connection which it entails. We urge you not to implement it -- and will make a point of purchasing service from ISPs that don't.

Internet access is beginning to be recognized as a basic right. It is shown again and again that any individual is at a severe disadvantage in all facets of their life if they do not have Internet access.

Proving what person is actually behind the computer in cases of copyright infringement has been (and likely always will be) extremely difficult. It will be unfair to other users of a given connection if a single bad actor can get this invoked.

In addition, the RIAA/MPAA have recently been shown to be deliberately engaging in "shotgun" legislation in an effort to shake down those it *thinks* are infringers. When they can also wield a weapon to cut off all access, these types of frivolous John Doe lawsuits will only increase.

Consider the "coffee shop" scenario: Any business that operates an open (or even password protected) WiFi for customers could rack up "six strikes" in a matter of hours.

This is a bad policy that will punish innocent users for the actions of a very few.

If you allow a single industry to dictate the terms of Internet access for all, how long will it be before other industries follow suit and start the pressure? Will the fashion industry decide that searching for knock-offs should violate six strikes? How about inflammatory political speech?

This is an extremely slippery slope that ends in no privacy or free speech for anyone.

Please do not enact this policy. Please advocate for impartial and open access to Internet."
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:44am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sorry pal, but Mike's poor decision to devote his life to complaining about copyright was his boneheaded choice, not mine.

But pretending that isn't precisely what he does just makes you look more foolish than you normally do.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:44am

Re:
Figures you fail to mention her FUD-laced lie that could shut off your Internet if you're accused of piracy

Again, the RIAA is already saying that it is required by law.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120727/08520119856/riaas-backdoor-plan-using-six-strikes-plan -to-cut-off-internet-access-people.shtml

And you know that.
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DogBreath, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:44am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Yes it is.

Oh, I see, you're here for the Argument Clinic.

Will that be for 5 minutes, or the whole hour?
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Edward Teach, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:45am

Belay that rubbish, Mate!
Wait, didn't the Democratic Underground quote an entire Las Vegas Review-Journal article? Oh, yes: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014188434

Also, isn't Fair Use an affirmative defense, in that the defendant admits infringement before Fair Use can kick in?

So infringement can easily be legal, as the courts see it. Am I supposed to "consult an attorney" now, as Attorney are Authoritative on these matters?
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gorehound (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:46am

MAFIAA go lick my dog's butt !!! You slimeballs are opening up a can of worms and your damn 6 strikes plan is a pile of stinking shit.
It could be that even more people who were unaware before will be aware of your BS and hopefully will join an active Boycott against all Big Content.
I am Censoring you from my wallet for the rest of my life.You will never see a dime from me and I mean ever.What money I got will be spent on Art from Artists who would never resort to the low life standards of the MAFIAA.
You really think you can Fuck with the Citizens of this Nation you bunch of greedy-ass whining babies.
MAFIAA as your Web draws in the innocent the Citizens may just wake up a bit to your two faced lying BS.

I am a MAFIAA HATER !
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:49am

Re:
Huguenot
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:51am

Re:
The problem for you pirates is that such people are almost non-existent. Of course Masnick will jump at any outlier and then try to dishonestly spin it, but that's because he's a piracy apologist.
However the fact remains that there are hardly any artists that put their work up for sale and then turn around and go "nah, just go ahead and take it illegally".

DUH.
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Ruben, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Where can I get Beiber's or Coldplay's latest release in FLAC? Or Avatar in 1080p MKV file? I know where, and you won't like the answer.

The truth is that every option you've named sucks a fat one.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:56am

Re:
I am Censoring you from my wallet for the rest of my life.

Considering you already steal instead of pay.... big whoop.

Nobody cares.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:56am

Re: Re:
No they need it to exist so every ill that befalls them can be the fault of an outside force.
This movie didn't do well on DVD, its not because it was an Uwe Boll film it was because of piracy.
We can't pay you little people more because piracy, not because I needed a new condo for my mistress.
We haven't adapted to the market and we are losing money because of that... but its piracys fault.
We need more laws!!! because piracy.
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average_joe (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:57am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Fact: Mike will bitch and moan about every perceived "victim" of the six strikes program--no matter how remote the issue, if it can possibly be spun as even suggesting anything conceivably negative it will be glorified and hyper-focused on as if the "only true way; the universe incarnate." LOL! His reaction is so ridiculous and predictable that I can already write the headlines now. No matter what happens, if even one shred of one story discredits the program in even the slightest way, that will be headline story that is run on Techdirt as the most important story on the internet ever. This site is such a predictable joke that it's just sad.
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DogBreath, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:58am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sorry pal, but Mike's poor decision to devote his life to complaining about copyright was his boneheaded choice, not mine.

And the MPAA & RIAA & others complicit in their dying business models and perpetual extension of copyrights, are responsible for digging their own graves faster. They can't be bothered by silly things like paradigm shifts, and will only survive when their heads can be dragged (yes, kicking and screaming) out of their own buttcheeks.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:03pm

Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
Internet access is beginning to be recognized as a basic right.

No it isn't.

Having a phone isn't a basic right. It's a utility. And far more important than an internet connection.

Even something that can affect a person's health and well-being, like air-conditioning, isn't considered a "basic right". It's a utility.

You people are hilarious.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:03pm

Re: Re:
The ISPs were not so convinced, unlike the **AA's they understand without customers they don't make money.
Disconnection was then downplayed in the press releases where they pushed back the start date for the 2nd or 3rd time.
The AT&T hardline of your responsible for what happens on your connection is amazing considering the crappy 2Wire units they gave to customers that are a cinch to hack.

After seeing some sort of magical tests done in secret they accepted *insert new company name here* that acquired dtecnet (sp) but its still dtecnets flawed system and flawed staff doing the detection.

Then there was the admission to TF that after 6 strikes they just drop you from the program, but maintain records of every notice from then on so they can turn the file over to CCI of the people to try and sue.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
insisting he does makes you look like the fool you already are everyday. funny that.
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DogBreath, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Fact: Mike will bitch and moan about every perceived "victim" of the six strikes program

Yes, Mike will even bitch and moan when YOU get disconnected from the internet. But then, if you don't do anything illegal, you'll have nothing to worry about... right? Right???

You are so predictable, and that is what really makes this site sad.
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John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
No, it's the accusation of lawbreaking.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:07pm

Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
its not quite as cute when you get worked up but...

baby want a rattle?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:09pm

Re: Re:
youre right that nobody cares... about you!
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DogBreath, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:12pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
If you are cited and lose six appeals, I'd say you probably deserve what comes next.

So, what you're really saying is:

"If someone ties you up and puts a single round into a 6 shot revolver to play russian roulette on your forehead, I'd say you probably deserve what comes next."
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akp (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:12pm

Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
Yes it is starting to be seen as a right. No, I don't have a right to internet... Yet. But that perception is changing.

Look at all the protests around the world in the past year that wouldn't have been as effective without internet.

Governments are starting to speak out about oppressive regimes that limit or cut off internet from their citizens.

This is a much bigger issue than some perceived loss of revenue for one industry. Piracy is just a drop in the bucket when you consider what else is at stake here.
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The Real Michael, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:12pm

Re: Re:
"if you feel you have been falsely accused you can pay $35 to challenge their finding before an arbitrator they pick.
Before then you have a choice of like 5 responses to respond, and they refuse to admit anything made since 1923 could possibly be in the public domain."

Oh, well gee, that's nice to know. :/

This 'plan' is just another power play from the major corps seeking absolute control over the internet, much like TV and radio. To their way of thinking, if they're not dominating a service or platform, something is wrong.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Both of those works are available for purchase in a high quality format in the US.

The format you choose to convert them to when playing them is immaterial to this discussion.

Short version: specious comeback. 0/10
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:16pm

Re: Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
Pure FUD.

Punishing weasel pirates for breaking the law will have zero negative effect on the internet itself.

Zero.
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bob, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:19pm

Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
Hey, I'm one of those people. While I think some of the things they're doing can be hamfisted, I think we need to respect the artists and respect the need to spread development costs over all of the users.

If you don't like it, move to Somalia where there are no laws. How many great films or bands have you seen come from there lately?
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Yeah, because why should we focus on you when there are plenty of other options out there for people to use. This isn't all about you or the others that come on here with the same preachings. There are other options that will sell these products for cheap (or free), and people will go to them if these options aren't dicks to their customers.

Tell me, how's business for ya?
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bob, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
The 3 billion is a bit large for the US, but not for the world as a whole. I think everyone is an artist and I think everyone deserves the right to control what happens to their creations. Big companies can't just come along and take the art without asking.

Copyright is the friend of the 3 billion+ artists out there-- if they choose to use their talents. If the big corporations want to take their art, they have to sign a contract and buy the rights. (I will admit that the contracts are often less than equal, but artists can always ignore the big labels when they come calling. They can always turn down the money.)

The couch potatoes who don't choose to use their talent are the ones who hate copyright. They think all of the blather around here sounds good to them because it rationalizes taking for free.
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Colin, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
His reaction is so ridiculous and predictable

There aren't enough pots in the world for this kettle.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:25pm

Re: Re:
So it is stealing to purchase from artists who sell direct to their fans. You have swallowed the MAFIAA line that they are the only ones that can distribute content.
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MrWilson, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ah, so we're getting closer to the source of the problem. You equate complaining about copyright with "defending the practice of ripping off people." Because you believe in the false dilemma that if copyright law were any less extreme than it currently is, it would constitute a system of ripping people off and therefore anyone who advocates for a less extreme copyright law is therefore arguing in favor of ripping people off.

Got it.
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John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Why quote the comment? You do realize that we can all read all the comments, reported or not, right?
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bob, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:27pm

Re:
Bravo! But there are more than hundreds of thousands. I bet that every single member of this august forum would be postively outraged if a big company built an advertisement around one of their creations (song, music, poem, etc). Companies do this all of the time. They nab a photo from Flickr and they never pay the artist anything.

Who's got all of our backs? Why copyright and the organizations that defend it like the RIAA and the MPAA. They're the ones that are fighting to keep artists in control.

Copyright protects all of us when we use our talents.

(Now I will admit that some corporations push unbalanced contracts on people but that's not a reason to get rid of the system. All of the new, hip and cool labels still rely on copyright to be able to pay royalties to artists. The solution is to start a new label and offer better terms, not sit on the couch and download like a fiend.)
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Scott, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:27pm

Re: Re: Re:
I don't get why do they need to be gatekeepers in the first place.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The couch potatoes who don't have any talent are the ones who hate copyright.

FTFY

They think all of the blather around here sounds good to them because it rationalizes taking for free.

100% correct.
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bob, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:28pm

Re: Re: A thought...
Why? What do these losers contribute to the economy? They're too cheap to spend 99 cents on a song. What could they possibly do to create jobs for other people?
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:30pm

Re: Re:
... Um, I said above that I don't give a crap if someone comes and makes copies of my work. If they like my work then I don't care if I get paid or not. Originally I started writing is for fun and I'm still making art without getting a single cent out of this! Do you really think that every creator out there is going to pull something off like that and let people do it?

No wait, don't answer that. I already know it and it hurts my brain.
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Rikuo (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:32pm

Re: Re:
That's the problem with you, fucktard. You ASSUME he's "stealing" (I won't delve into the fact one doesn't steal digital files, one copies them) and then, based on that false assumption, you lead on from there to oppose anything he has to say.
THAT is why I and everyone else here on Techdirt oppose you and everything the copyright cartels do. You actively work to destroy due process in a court of law. You accuse and assume we're guilty of a crime, and call for harsh punishments all without letting us little people have our fair day in the courtroom.

Yes, I admit it. I do infringe on copyrights. Guess what I also do. I ALSO BUY! Right now, I'm looking at my Steam library and I see no less than EIGHTY ONE titles, the vast majority of which were obtained by paying for them. I'm looking over beside my TV and see my PS3. I only ever buy games new (mainly because my local Gamestop never stocks the anime-themed games I'm interested in). I look around my bedroom and see quite a few blu-rays. A few in particular catch my eye: Lord of the Rings and Battlestar Galactica. What's so special about them? Before purchasing them (just to make it clear, all three LOTR movies and the entire BG series) I had already downloaded them and watched them. In fact, I had bought the LOTR movies twice on DVD!
To sum up, I am an infringer AND a customer, willing to pay cash.
Now since I pay, and since everyone else on Techdirt does, are we allowed to have our voices heard. Or can you SHUT THE FUCK UP and FUCK OFF!
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bob, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:32pm

Re: Re:
And if the store won't give me a nice chunk of beef trimmed of fat just the way I want, I've got an excuse for me to just steal everything. It's the store's fault!

Face it. If the music/movie/etc sucks and doesn't fit your needs, don't steal it. Just move on and grab the music of one of those really cool bands that gives all of their music away for free. Let me know when you find one. All of the ones I know give away a taste, but charge for the full album. And they usually charge for the shows too.
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Marcel de Jong (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:34pm

Re: Re: Re:
You mean Rosario Dawson works for free?
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The Real Michael, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:35pm

Re: Re: Re:
I don't download their music or movies, but sometimes I go on YouTube and listen to a song or watch a scene from a movie. Personally I don't see a problem with that.

I believe that the RIAA & MPAA's real grudge lies with the fact that the internet is an open platform which allows the user to actively participate in culture, including monetize it without their approval. So they try to purchase bad laws and regulations in order to strangulate the free market and shared culture which the internet makes possible. (And when I say "shared culture," I'm not referring to torrenting Rocky, obviously.)
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Marcel de Jong (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Besides, I'm a member of the thieves guild, so it's all legal!
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[This comment has been censored due to the extreme amount of hate to this particular Anonymous Coward]
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The eejit (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
No, it really isn't. Because, and this might be hard for you, there is no law to break. SOPA was planned to be that law. But it's not in force.
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Marcel de Jong (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Can I accuse you of speeding without offering evidence?

Then how about I accuse you of murder without providing any evidence?

What's that? I can't?

Then how come people can get their internet cut off (a vital thing in this day and age) based on mere ACCUSATIONS? Has nothing to do with the law, now does it?
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:45pm

Re: Re:
Uh, bob, can't you seriously read? If you can't, then you might want to check that I've said that I don't give a crap if someone copies my work. Now I'll be mad if they use my work for more hateful attacks, but I won't go into a full blind rage about it. If people want to use my work, go ahead! I'm not going to stop them.
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:47pm

Re: Re:
Uh, bob, can't you seriously read? If you can't, then you might want to check that I've said that I don't give a crap if someone copies my work. Now I'll be mad if they use my work for more hateful attacks, but I won't go into a full blind rage about it. If people want to use my work, go ahead! I'm not going to stop them.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:47pm

Re: Re: Re:
I said above that I don't give a crap if someone comes and makes copies of my work.

That's YOU.

You get to CHOOSE what YOU want to do with YOUR work, just the same as others get to CHOOSE what THEY want to do with THEIR work.

Why are you trying to restrict artists rights? Why are you anti-choice?
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:48pm

Re: Re: Re:
CRAP! Man, hate the double post!
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:53pm

Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Well, we could make something more better than what's already on the market.
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John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
The appeals process is a joke. It limits what grounds you are allowed to appeal based on, excluding a number of common actions which are a valid defense in a court of law, but which you are not allowed to use in a defense in the "appeals process".

In other words, it's nearly as good as no appeals process at all.
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Tim K (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:56pm

Re: Re:
They're the ones that are fighting to keep artists in control.

That's funny bob. They don't give two shits about the artists. They want to keep control, they want money, they give/let the artist keep as little money/control as possible.
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John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Nobody but nobody is trying to restrict artist rights. You're just making stuff up as usual.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Yes, it is.

Copyright infringement is against the law.

The only reason all this piracy bs has continued at the rate it has was because the law wasn't being enforced.

The law is finally being enforced.

Break the law, you'll suffer a punishment.

That's a concept a six-year old can grasp.

Mike Masnick loves piracy, and knows enforcement is the enemy of piracy. That's why he complains about enforcement constantly.
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Tim K (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 12:59pm

Re: Re: Re:
NIN and Dan Bull to name to quick examples.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
LOL.

I've been done with plastic discs for 10 years. I've been done with converting formats for almost as long.
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Ruben, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:03pm

Re: Re: Re:
Why would I steal something if it's not what I wanted in the first place? You're suggesting that I'd steal a blu-ray because the MKV isn't available?
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John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
I believe that the RIAA & MPAA's real grudge lies with the fact that the internet is an open platform

Bingo!

This is what some studio heads have said outright. That their concern is not piracy -- piracy doesn't really hurt them that much -- but rather the loss of monopolistic control over the distribution channel.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You were dropped on your head as a child, weren't you?

I know what the Sherman Act is, Sparkles.

You ignored the part where I informed you that the $35 wasn't for a product being sold, and thus has zero to do with trade law.
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Um, I'm not trying to restrict artists' rights. I believe I didn't saying along those lines, nor nothing about me being anti-choice. If fact, if I'm anti-choice and I have a product that's up for sale, then should I be telling people "hey, you can only buy this, not take it for free!"

Yes what I said is how I view things, not for everyone else. However, I was saying that I was not one of the people that will flip-flop on whether to decide to give their product away or sell it. I am giving the options to those who find my works to either download for free or give me some money, not restricting them to one and only one option (the latter option, at a high price).

I don't speak for everyone, just for myself. If people like my options, then they can come and look at my stuff. If there's someone that is doing what I'm doing and offering something better, I'm not stopping them from a better product. I'll let people make their choices, much like you're making a choice to call me out on my comment, and I'm making my choice of replying to your thoughts. I'm not anti-choice and far from it. Troll all you like; you're not going to sway me.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Can I accuse you of speeding without offering evidence?

They will indeed be flagging users based on evidence.

You appear to know absolutely nothing about what you're whining about.
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John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
Punishing weasel pirates for breaking the law will have zero negative effect on the internet itself.

True, but the mechanisms they want to put into place to do so certainly will.

Also they seem to have a lot of difficulty accurately determining who is a pirate as who isn't. You and a coupe of other regular commenters here demonstrate this every day (practically every post) when you falsely call everyone here pirates.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:11pm

You know what's amazing. Whenever there is an article about an artist taking issue with something being done for them/in their name, it's like the ACs collectively blow a gasket. We went from artist posting about the 6 strikes and it being bad and putting a link to sign a petition, to bob rambling about who knows what (par for the course) and the other usual AC showing up and calling everyone thieves/pirates and basically saying "if you have a problem with six strikes, you're a freetarded thieving pirate".

It's hilarious. The amount of FUD/nonsense spread by those two (along with others) is almost always directly proportional to the article in question. Artists speaking out = more FUD by a few trolls. Bad law being called out as such with facts = more FUD by a few trolls. And so on and so forth.

Well done Mike. This one has struck a chord/hit a nerve.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:12pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
This is a piracy apologist blog.

The vast majority of pro-piracy people here are pirates. It's hilarious that you would ignore Occam's and all other semblance of logic to claim otherwise.
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John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Enforcement is the enemy of piracy? That's a deeply hilarious statement right there. Piracy doesn't give two hoots about enforcement, and those few people who really are pro-piracy are not troubled at all by these provisions.

It's the rest of us law-abiding citizens who have a problem with it.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:15pm

Re: Re: Re:
has several full albums.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
I've been done with making my own food for years. Go make me a sandwich. Right now.

See how that works?

You're just another silly entitlement-monkey.
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John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:18pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
This is a piracy apologist blog.

So you keep saying. It simply and obviously isn't true, though, no matter how many times you say it.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Someone sounds mad he took to eating poop instead of arguing for stronger copyright.
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Copyright infringement is as equal to jaywalking, littering, and not wearing your seat belt. Just because it's the law doesn't mean that people aren't going to take it seriously like some of the major crimes.

"The only reason all this piracy bs has continued at the rate it has was because the law wasn't being enforced."

Is that really the only reason piracy is still around? Boy, you ARE blind.

"The law is finally being enforced."

Yes... through poorly-written laws unsuited for today's expanding digital universe and thought up by those totally unfamiliar with it. I can definitely see that these successful laws are doing their darn-good job at arresting innocent people caught in an unknown war. /last-sentence sarcasm

And keep dreaming with your "Pirate Mike" dream, buddy. Unless you provide something to prove Mike really is a pirate (and the rumored Pirate King), then all your claims are nothing but dreams.
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Wow Joe, you have entirely too much focus on Masnick...it's reminiscent of a fan's passion and devotion to a celebrity.

That's why I made you this Mike MAsnick Tiger Beat poster:

http://i45.tinypic.com/2chq906.png
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:26pm

Re: Re:
"any artists that put their work up for sale and then turn around and go "nah, just go ahead and take it illegally"."

That really makes no sense. Logically if you were selling a product, why would you then turn to offer it for free?

Ohhhhh, wait I get it...you're creating an argument based on exaggerated information to make an ad hom attack on Masnick.

How very classy of you ;)
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
How about you make me a sandwich. It works both ways. Hope you don't mind it blackened.
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RD, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:29pm

Let's end this argument right now, once and for all
Ok lets put paid to this argument once and for all.

The 1976 Copyright Act gave AUTOMATIC copyright to ANYTHING created at the moment of creation. There was no longer any need (though there are some additional benefits) to register a copyright to qualify for coverage.

Therefore, the content of EVERY SINGLE SITE on the internet is de facto copyright automatically, the moment its created/written/uploaded/whatever.

The internet, by its very nature and the technology that makes it function at all, is built upon moving (some would say, sharing) information and data across its network from one place to another. ANY computer data system must be able to move specific information from one place to another to perform the essential function it was built for.

Since ALL of this information is de facto copyright from the moment it's created, EVERY SINGLE PERSON using the internet is a de facto infringer, and ALL activity on the internet is de facto infringement.

To criminalize ALL activity of every person using the internet means the copyright system is broken and no longer serves the purpose it was created for, or the benefits it purports to bestow upon either society or creators.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
more than a nozzle; the excrement oozing out the edges as the pressure builds to the point of leakage
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:35pm

Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
"If you don't like it, move to Somalia where there are no laws. How many great films or bands have you seen come from there lately?"

Actually bob, if people don't like it they'll invest in VPNs. Then the RIAA/MPAA can spend the next decade trying to make those illegal.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:35pm

Re: Re:
more anal leakage, bring me the sauce
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Franklin G Ryzzo (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
And fortunately after the first year of that decade, technology will already have something to replace the VPNs. Legislation will never outpace innovation. They will either have to shut down the internet, adapt, or die.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
There won't be any need to make them illegal.

You seem to believe that your activity is more easily hidden than it actually is.

People will just get throttled down to 56kbs until they can learn to not break the law.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:46pm

Re: Let's end this argument right now, once and for all
LOL

read the TOS of this site.

You most certainly don't understand copyright law.

BTW, how about opening your wallet and paying for things that have a pricetag when you consume them, you greedy, selfish douche.
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Baldaur Regis (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:48pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
That's so creepy it's cool enough to rip off and put on a t-shirt. Well done!
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
*cough*
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The Real Michael, 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Bingo!

This is what some studio heads have said outright. That their concern is not piracy -- piracy doesn't really hurt them that much -- but rather the loss of monopolistic control over the distribution channel."

Yes, I think everybody understands this. The push for draconian regulatory capture and bad laws is an attempt to hijack the internet so that the major content industries can dominate it. Heck, even cable providers and telcos are trying to get in on the action. The last thing we need is for the internet to become one big glorified advertisement and shopping mall for the major content industries.
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:53pm

Re: Re: Let's end this argument right now, once and for all
Hey, since you know better, why don't you inform us all about the copyright law, hm? And while you're at it, can you provide anything about the TOS for this site you keep asking about? Or are you going to ignore this and keep on attacking random people who obviously knows a whole lot more than you do?
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 1:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
That makes no difference. If the IP address is hidden, how is the ISP going to know whether your downloading or using Netflix, especially considering that Netflix surpassed Bit Torrent for internet traffic.
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:01pm

Re: Re: Let's end this argument right now, once and for all
Wow you accuse him of being a pirate and then call him a douche in the same sentence.

Assume much?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
This is what some studio heads have said outright. That their concern is not piracy -- piracy doesn't really hurt them that much -- but rather the loss of monopolistic control over the distribution channel."

Nice to see you guys have resorted to just outright lying now.

lol
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
facepalm

you have no idea what you're dealing with.

One of my best friends is a systems tech for one of the major ISPs that is participating in this program.

The things they are able to do to exactly monitor usage blow away your silly proxies and VPNs.

He just spent the last month helping the gov monitor possible ter**rists.

I was amazed by what I learned is possible.
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Scott, 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
Prove It or Shut Up
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
Nice appeal to authority, but we DO know what we're dealing with.

Encrypted transfers will prevent the differentiation of "fingerprints" between a download of a movie and the download of a Linux distro. Both being the size of a DVD.
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Scott, 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
They're telling the truth and you're just trolling.If you're really say what you are as far as that goes,Then I dare you find every personal information of me from my SSN to my Kindergarten teacher's name in the next half hour.
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Gwiz (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:26pm

Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
Internet access is beginning to be recognized as a basic right.

No it isn't.

Yes it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Internet_access

And it will become even more recognized as more basic functions move to internet only, like paying bills, banking, applying for employment, paying taxes, etc.
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The Real Michael, 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Nice to see you guys have resorted to just outright lying now."

If that's the case then explain how come Hollywood broke all previous records last year? And even if their profits dip sometime in the future (what goes up must come down...), they cannot prove that copyright infringement is to blame because it would've already had an impact. The major label music has been of piss-poor quality for well over a decade now and as a direct consequence their sales plummeted. They've got nobody that can make music on the same level as the classic artists, so they must resort to hawking their back catalogs ad nausea and shoving crap like Lady Gaga down our throats.

Ever new regulation that the content industries want to impose upon internet users is rooted in gaining a monopoly over it. To them, this is all just a game, much like Wall Street gambles with our jobs and our money.
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Scott, 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
I knew he's talking shit.
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The Real Michael, 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
"I've been done with making my own food for years. Go make me a sandwich. Right now.

See how that works?

You're just another silly entitlement-monkey."

If converting a movie or music file is what you consider to be 'entitlement,' what do you call it when greedy middlemen cook the books, withhold royalties and intentionally spend huge wads of cash on artists they know will fail so that at the end of the year they can do a tax write-off?
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
Hey, I take offense to that! Just because I have an avatar that features a cartoonish skull and crossbones based off of a popular anime about pirates that I am using for my fan-fiction, and there's a guy that's a chimp wearing an eyepatch (because awesome), but that doesn't mean we're pirates! It means we're a couple of ninjas that loves technology and want to learn how to hide ourselves better!

/missedthepoint

(To be fair, I really wanted to say that!)
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:55pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
Hey man, I know a guy who says he was the drummer for Social Distortion, but beyond that, he's actually never provided evidence of that claim, so an "A" for effort on your part.

Anyway, even if you are correct this place - http://www.surfbouncer.com/personal_vpn_faq.htm - says that the process requires "...a lot of money and resources," which I doubt any of the major ISPs would expend to actually catch pirates, besides media content isn't their business.
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The Luke Witnesser, 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
Congratulations on your epic BS-storytelling. Just remember that if your story were to be true, then this friend of yours would be an enemy of the people. And not just because he'd be participating in spying on people for the government, either -- it seems like reason enough, but to someone who still *likes* the government on some level, like yourself, extra reason as to why that's so bad is needed to back it up.

Here's mine. You'd have no idea if the people your friend would be monitoring were people actually planning terror attacks or if they were just routinely outspoken against the government or certain industries whose giants Washington favors. You'd also have no idea if the government would actually want these people thoroughly investigated and tried even in a military tribunal (because we know they'll rarely ever try these guys in civilian court, as doing so more often would reveal that terrorists are not a ton scarier than the usual crooks and killers) or just kept an eye on so that when it's decided their presence is inconvenient, troops can be deployed to put them away under lock and key ala NDAA.

So, keep spinning your tall tales about your friend and all the marvelous inescapable Big Brother technologies that he gets to regale in every day during his treason of the American people. If he even exists, I hope he can sleep at night knowing that he is little more than a paid mass cyberstalker working for a corrupt capitol that hates its constituents both local and national. Either way, I say thank you. Thank you, because your story serves as a perfect reminder what certain officials, executives, shills, and trolls are willing to do (or endorse the doing of) to their fellow man for power, money, and control.
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The Real Michael, 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:56pm

Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
"No it isn't.

Having a phone isn't a basic right. It's a utility. And far more important than an internet connection."

You're right in that access to the internet isn't an inherent right, but regardless, who are the RIAA & MPAA to determine whether or not citizens may access it? When the content industries can get away with bribing government officials into enforcing regulatory capture on the internet, the end result is corporate facism.
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 2:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Don't ask him for evidence, the AC trolls never oblige, it's above them to back up their claims.

Except Average Joe, he actually does his research,.
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Scott, 12 Oct 2012 @ 3:18pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
Don't forget Goukaiger.
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Baldaur Regis (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 3:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
you have no idea what you're dealing with.
Many of us are roots, so you're right, we don't know what the fuck we're talking about.

One of my best friends is a systems tech for one of the major ISPs that is participating in this program.
Imaginary friends don't count.

The things they are able to do to exactly monitor usage blow away your silly proxies and VPNs.
They can't even spell my name right on the fucking bill.

He just spent the last month helping the gov monitor possible ter**rists.
Since most of the TERRORIST plots have been generated by the FBI, he's been spying on the FBI?

I was amazed by what I learned is possible.
How's living in fear working out for you?
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John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 3:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You know, before you accuse me of lying you might want to, I don't know, check to see if I'm right or wrong. Even if I'm wrong, that's not the same as lying.

However, I'm right. Here's a reference to the most recent example of this that I know of: http://www.techradar.com/us/news/internet/miramax-digital-platforms-are-the-problem-not-piracy-10313 93

Speaking at MIPCOM 2011 in Cannes, Miramax CEO Mike Lang explained, "Piracy really is not the bigger issue for our company or for our library. It's been lack of exploitation, just not getting it out there."

Mr. Lang is not alone, either.
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John Fenderson (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 3:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
They will indeed be flagging users based on evidence.

They will? How do you know? It certainly isn't required by the plan, unless by "evidence" you mean "companies pinky-swearing that it's true".
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 3:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You ignored...

And you didn't read the link.

Price fixing is any agreement among competitors which affects the ultimate price or terms of sale for a product or service.

(Emphasis added.)

Read the cases. This agreement is as illegal as an agreement to knock over a liquor store. Except that under � 1, there is not any need to prove an overt act.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 4:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Three billion plus artists worldwide?

You're not seriously suggesting that almost half of the global human population are artists?

Are you so fucking high that you're even willing to lie about statistics THIS obvious?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 4:17pm

Re:
Notice also that average_joe has also conveniently decided not to leave, despite Masnick acceding to his demands of apology.

For all the whining that the trolls do about maturity, they're a complete and thorough joke.
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Scott, 12 Oct 2012 @ 4:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
And he still haven't drop my docs.
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Alana (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 4:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Except it isn't when this is based on mere accusations.
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 5:09pm

Re:
So angry!
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 5:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
"It is not!

Yes, it is!

It is not!

Yes, it is!

Is not!

It is!

NOT!

IS!"

Brought to you by the School of Trolling for Argumentative Sociopaths.
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 5:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
How about a knuckle sandwich?

ZING!
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 5:21pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Wow, 3 billion worldwide? Seeing as the RIAA has claimed that the number of artists has fallen dramatically due to piracy that must mean that the entire population of the Earth was artists a decade ago. I want my royalties.
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RD, 12 Oct 2012 @ 5:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
"Both of those works are available for purchase in a high quality format in the US."

Song of the South, bitch. Unavailable in any format. Disney refuses to release it despite a sizeable consumer interest and historical significance.

If it wasn't for the "piracy" that you revile so much, this infamous (some would say notorious) movie would never be seen again.
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RD, 12 Oct 2012 @ 5:47pm

Re: Re: Let's end this argument right now, once and for all
"BTW, how about opening your wallet and paying for things that have a pricetag when you consume them, you greedy, selfish douche."

Visting any website now makes me a greedy selfish douche? REALLY?
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JMT (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 5:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
Are you so afraid of terrorists you can't even bring yourself to type the word?
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JMT (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 5:55pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Here is what Joe said:"

Actually that's what Joe copied, not what he said.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 6:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
If converting a movie or music file is what you consider to be 'entitlement,'

wow, you have serious reading comprehension issues.

He's an entitlement monkey because he expects everything to be done for him, i.e. converting files to whatever format his personal player uses.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 6:06pm

I can only hope more artists realize how bad this is for them and possibly everyone that's not some content gatekeeper.
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JMT (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 6:09pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
"uh, then don't consume them?"

And this is how we know you're not in any position of responsibility at a company that provides goods or services to customers, because that is about the stupidest response you could ever give to a potential customer who's money you want.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 6:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Yes, all piracy can be justified because of a Disney movie that isn't for sale.

Thanks, that makes total sense.
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JMT (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 6:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
"Go make me a sandwich. Right now.

See how that works?"

Yes, I do see how digital content works completely differently to physical goods. Judging by yet another failed analogy, you clearly don't. Slap some name-calling on the end and it's just like listening to a whining, ignorant teenager.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 6:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Let's end this argument right now, once and for all
No accusation, he stated it pretty clearly. RD is a douche who doesn't have a clue, he forgets thing TOS and such, and the idea that copyright doesn't mean absolutely ownership with no possiblity of sharing.

I think the modern term is douchenozzle, but I may be wrong.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 6:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Copied? I think you mean stole, right?
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JMT (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 6:31pm

Re: Re: Re:
"There won't be any fairness or balance in the "reporting.""

Still struggling with the definition of an opinion blog I see. I know you're a simple, black-and-white kinda guy, so the concept may confuse you, but every time you make a snide comment about "reporting" you just make yourself look a little stupider.
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JMT (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 6:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Why are you trying to restrict artists rights? Why are you anti-choice?"

Explain to the class how any artists rights are being restricted? Explain how any artists choices are being taken away? If you're going to make silly claims, at least explain your reasoning behind them.
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JMT (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 6:44pm

Re:
Funny how Mike's posted a link to refute your claim that it's a lie three times, but not one of you shills has responded to it. Telling.
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JMT (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 6:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
"Punishing weasel pirates for breaking the law will have zero negative effect on the internet itself."

Punishing pirates for breaking the law will have zero negative effect on piracy. FTFY.

But you seem completely blind to the fact that your attempts to punish pirates comes at the cost of important human rights like privacy and justice, and all at the behest of a bunch of corporations who massively over-value their place in society.
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JMT (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 7:05pm

Re: Re:
"Considering you already steal instead of pay.... big whoop."

Exactly, why bother with people who aren't going to pay? That's just stupid. Imagine if all the time and energy wasted on trying to hold back the piracy tide was instead spent developing the services that people clearly want to pay for?

"Nobody cares."

If nobody cares, then why do you need six-strikes?
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JMT (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 7:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's end this argument right now, once and for all
Still waiting for your explanation why TD's TOS are relevant to the discussion. Try it without name-calling if you're able.
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Cory of PC (profile), 12 Oct 2012 @ 7:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
Honestly I don't know who he is, but if I see him then I'll mention him in another post.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:00pm

It all boils down to who you trust
Rosario Dawson or an anonymous nobody on the Internet?

You chose.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:19pm

Re: Re: Re: A thought...
What you are saying is that the DMCA has a termination provision and the six strikes procedure can be used as evidence to force ISP's to live up to their existing obligations under the law?

That is a bit different than the claim that six strikes itself will compel disconnection. And at this point it is but a theory being advanced by the RIAA.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
How is this any different than speed trap cameras or red light cameras. There's a photo of my car exceeding the speed limit or busting through a red light sent to me along with a ticket for $40. It shows my license plate but not who was driving. I can either pay up or appeal it and have my day in court.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:40pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If the AC spent his time blogging about eating shit, published a feces cookbook, and appeared on a television show preparing diarrhea stroganov and turd kabobs your claim would be just as credible as his about Mike Masnick.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No what I am saying is that six strikes is no different than a red light camera taking a picture of your car.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
One Piece. The only anime I actively follow on Hulu. Basically Dragonball Z on the high seas, but much better humor.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Win and get it back.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:47pm

Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
Actually...? In the US having a phone IS pretty much a basic right. If you receive ANY supplemental help from the government, any at all, you can get a free cell phone from SafeLink. The form is easy to fill out, and you'll have a phone in about 2 weeks.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 8:51pm

Re: Re:
So the RIAA interprets the law now? That is laughable.
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DogBreath, 12 Oct 2012 @ 9:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yes, perfect example, because as we all know red light cameras and automated systems that issue the tickets from them are absolutely foolproof and there is no possible way for them to make mistakes... oh... wait.

Attorney Decodes Numbers On Redlight Camera Photo To Prove That The Light Was Green
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100506/1052499324.shtml

Bamboozled: Red-light camera error leads to road of exasperation in Edison
http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2012/10/bamboozled_red_light_camera_er.html

http:/ /redlightrobber.com/
The Problem is the International Standards

1)Misapplied Physics in the International Standards that Set Yellow Light Durations Forces Drivers to Run Red Lights
http://redlightrobber.com/red/links_pdf/Misapplied-Physics-Red-Light-Cameras.pdf

2)Short Yellows and Turns
http://redlightrobber.com/red/links_pdf/Short-Yellow.pdf

These two papers are sufficient to bring down the red light cameras in every city in the world.

We are currently using them in Cary, North Carolina. We are suing Cary over enforcing legislation which opposes the laws of Nature. The legislation is the red light camera legislation which enforces a federal traffic engineering standard called the ITE Yellow Change Formula. The Formula has a physics mistake in it. The formula prohibits drivers from obeying Newton's Laws of Motion--a physical impossibility which causes drivers to run red lights in common situations.

Paul Ridgeway, a Wake County Superior Court judge, granted class certification in June 2012. Because of liability issues, the Town of Cary turned off its red light cameras in August and terminated its contract with Redflex. We take Cary to trial in January 2013.

So, this new "six strikes" plan is just as "accurate" as the red light cameras are. On that, I agree.
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DogBreath, 12 Oct 2012 @ 10:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Was if it wasn't your car? Was if it wasn't your license plate? Doesn't matter, you are "Automatically" assumed to be "Guilty" and must waste your time and money to fight a charge you shouldn't have had to deal with in the first place.

Bamboozled: Red-light camera error leads to road of exasperation in Edison
http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2012/10/bamboozled_red_light_camera_er.html

But, in the end, I guess it really doesn't matter. If you are accused of something you didn't do, you can still pay the fine and wash your hands of it. Just don't get caught doing again what you didn't do before in the first place, or they may not be so lenient the next time. Might even take away your driving privileges for something you had nothing to do with. How dare you not do it and think you can get away with it!

So, don't do something you didn't do, be automatically judged guilty of that same thing you didn't do, unless you can prove to someone else that you didn't do what you didn't do.

Let that be a lesson to you, and don't you ever forget it.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Oct 2012 @ 11:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
This is just another example of how Mike Masnick and his minions rely on outliers when trying to justify inexcusable behavior.

Examples of a mistake occurring could be found if you looked at any law.

Society doesn't throw away laws just because there are examples of mistakes. The world would have no laws if that was the case.

Mike Masnick knows this, but ignores it, because he is intellectually dishonest.

He is not committed to the truth, he is committed to lobbying for the destruction of the rights creators possess.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 13 Oct 2012 @ 12:17am

Re: Re: Re:
Did you miss how they have ICE and DOJ doing their bidding ignoring what the law says and doing what they want it to say?
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 13 Oct 2012 @ 12:24am

Re: Re: Re:
The responses are limited and there is only 1 use of one of them allowed about your connection not being secured.

This is 2 industries scratching each others backs fully supported by the Government who is charged with stopping monopolies and antitrust actions, but only for the "bad people" who might disrupt the status quo.

It would be nice if the people charged with protecting the public just fired up the lawsuits now. If the ISPs want to play copyright cop, they don't need the benefit of public money and subsidies. They do not need protected monopolies in areas, and lets open the wires up to competition. Isn't that how capitalism works? Competition makes things better, rather than laws to block it.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 13 Oct 2012 @ 12:26am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"sometimes I go on YouTube and listen to a song or watch a scene from a movie"

And if there is a chance for them to make even a tenth of a cent from you doing that they have to be there demanding a dime.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 13 Oct 2012 @ 12:28am

Re: It all boils down to who you trust
Or That Anonymous Coward.
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Scott, 13 Oct 2012 @ 1:14am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Exactly
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Cory of PC (profile), 13 Oct 2012 @ 7:05am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Why do I feel the urge to laugh right now?
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Scott, 13 Oct 2012 @ 8:50am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
I was never a fan of it to began with it.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Oct 2012 @ 9:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
No they aren't.
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DogBreath, 13 Oct 2012 @ 7:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
"This is just another example of how the MPAA & RIAA and their minions rely on their immense lobbying power to buy and bamboozle politicians and other companies, when trying to justify inexcusable behavior to get others to do their nefarious bidding for them.

Examples of a ripping off the public and the artists occurring can be found if you look at any (anti-public, pro-corporation) copyright extension law and company created (to benefit the company, not the artist) boiler plate contract.

Society will not accept "laws" just because some corporation wants to make it so. The world would have no one outside of prison that wasn't working on a chain gang if that was the case.

The MPAA & RIAA know this, but ignore it, because they are intellectually dishonest and morally bankrupt. They are Not doing anything for the artists, they are doing it for Themselves.

They are not committed to the truth, they are committed to lobbying, buying and bullying their way into the destruction of the rights people possess."

FTFY
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btr1701, 13 Oct 2012 @ 8:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
> People will just get throttled down to 56kbs until they can
> learn to not break the law.

That's the whole point of a VPN. No one can tell what's being sent over it, therefore there's no evidence of law breaking.
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btr1701, 13 Oct 2012 @ 8:09pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What I want to know is where are the artists that do support the MPAA and RIAA?
> ter**rists

What's with the asterisks? Do you think that's a naughty word or something?
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btr1701, 13 Oct 2012 @ 8:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
> Where can I get Beiber's latest release in FLAC?

Why the hell would want it?
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btr1701, 13 Oct 2012 @ 8:18pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
> Society doesn't throw away laws just because there are examples of mistakes.

No, you tool, that's why we build quaint little concepts like due process into the system, so that when mistakes happen, they can be caught, and the innocent are not unjustly punished.

This 'strikes' system turns the concept of due process on its ear.
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btr1701, 13 Oct 2012 @ 8:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If anyone wants to steal my petition letter...
> The vast majority of people here are pirates.

How could you possibly know that?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Oct 2012 @ 9:34pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
There are many things which people don't have the time or inclination to do themselves so they get others to do it for them. Our economies have many service industries which sprung up to meet those needs.

There is obviously a market for different file formats so why aren't they available through legitimate channels at a reasonable price? Not providing them means other services will fill the void, such as TPB.
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art guerrilla (profile), 14 Oct 2012 @ 3:58am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
exactly, thank you for this:
"Copyright infringement is as equal to jaywalking, littering, and not wearing your seatbelt."
spot on

EVEN IF we concede their laws in this area, it is the draconian enforcement and ruining of many lives over what is equivalent to jaywalking, for activity that has near ZERO 'harm' to society...

(in fact, it would be easier to argue the opposite case: that the draconian enforcement of antiquated copyright laws causes immeasurable harm to society for little/no gain...)

it is ONLY through the backroom machinations of the extortionist gatekeepers that their artificial monopoly on these industries remains in place...

these laws, trade agreements, etc have NOTHING to do with 'the greater good for the greatest number', and EVERYTHING to do with perpetuating a Mafia-style business 'model' for a small group of extortionists...
FOAD MAFIAA ! ! !

art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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Cory of PC (profile), 14 Oct 2012 @ 7:06am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Whoa, hold on... all piracy is justified from ONE Disney movie?

... Wow, you are really grasping for something.
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DogBreath, 14 Oct 2012 @ 9:22am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
With their "arbitration" process, I'm sure I can find better odds of getting my $35 back, in a dark alley at 3AM in Las Vegas.

I might have to sell my hair to a wig shop, but I' rather do that than wake up in a roadside ditch wearing an eyepatch.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Oct 2012 @ 11:06am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
Too bad this isn't the judicial system we're talking about.
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Psyga Sanichigo (profile), 14 Oct 2012 @ 6:09pm

You know, I just gotta ask the logic in having this plan where the ISPs are forced to act as judge, jury, and executioner.

People will leave after seeing that the ISPs are mistreating them more than they already are, and soon their money will fall down the drain. If that happens, I think it's only fair they go and force the MAFIAA to pay up for their lost money, since it was their idea in the first place.
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Vincent Giannell, 14 Oct 2012 @ 8:52pm

Even if this plan doesn't get shelved, it should be delayed again until our protests gets through to the ISPs.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2012 @ 1:05am

Re:
more and more artists -- musicians, actors, writers, etc. -- are making it clear that the RIAA & MPAA don't represent them

No there aren't. There are random examples.

There are hundreds of thousands of musicians and actors that do not want their work taken without permission.

You never talk about that majority though.

You only laud those that support your pro-piracy agenda.

Repost because I hate censorship.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2012 @ 4:23am

Re: Re:
Censorship. I KNOW you don't know what that word means.

I'll help you out, if you can still see the original comment, it's not censorship. It's merely been reported. That last line about pro-piracy, THAT is what got that comment reported. I can all but guarantee it.

Truth be told though, people like you love censorship. How else could you silence those with the nerve to point out the flaws in your arguments, or spread facts for others to look up and so on and so forth.
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btr1701 (profile), 15 Oct 2012 @ 12:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A thought...
> Too bad this isn't
> the judicial system
> we're talking about.

Too bad you apparently only believe people are entitled to fairness and protection from unjust punishment in court.
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hunh, 25 Nov 2012 @ 10:40am

First public figure to acknowledge this unconstitutional act
Wow, the first "public" figure to actually take a stand against this. This has been crazy.

Why doesn't the Electronic Frontier Foundation fight this with more energy? Everyone was fighting SOPA but somehow they all forgot to pay attention to this program.

The complete lack of media exposure on this is intentional and there IS a conspiracy at work here and its the Hollywood entertainment media companies from Comcast to Turner and the major broadband providers of the United States.
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