Barnes & Noble Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires
from the ebooks:-where-'buying'-means-'renting-for-an-indefinite-period' dept
DRM rears its ugly, malformed, malignant, cross-eyed head again. Despite the fact that, as Cory Doctorow so aptly put it, no one has ever purchased anything because it came with DRM, an ever-slimming number of content providers insist on punishing paying customers with idiotic "anti-piracy" schemes.Combine this "malware" with digital distribution that sticks the end user with an unfavorable license rather than, say, an actual book, and you've got another ready-made disaster. The Consumerist has the details on yet another paying customer dealing with DRM stupidity. It starts off with this physical analogy.
[I]f reader Synimatik had bought a paperback book a few months ago and picked it up to read now, the book’s pages wouldn’t magically glue shut just because the credit card she normally uses at the bookstore has expired.Obviously, no one would expect a physical book to be subject to the whims of the publisher or the store it was purchased from. A sale is a sale, even if many rights holders would rather it wasn't. But, Barnes & Noble doesn't see it that way. Sure, you can buy an ebook from them, but you'd better keep everything in your profile up to date if you plan on accessing your purchases at some undetermined point in the future.
Yesterday, I tried to download an ebook I paid for, and previously put on my Nook, a few months ago. When I tried, I got an error message stating I could not download the book because the credit card on file had expired. But, I already paid for it. Who cares if the credit card is expired? It has long since been paid for, so the status of the card on file has nothing to do with my ability to download said book. I didn’t see anything in the terms of service about this either, but it’s possible I missed it.Nice work, B&N. Driving another person away from your offerings with your amnesiac point-of-purchase system. No one's purchase should be invalidated once the payment has cleared. Barnes & Noble got its money but its customer is out both money and a book. Does B&N really wish for its customers to root their devices and strip the DRM out of their purchases just so they can enjoy them at their own pace? Shouldn't the company be catering to its customers rather than treating them like thieves who can't be trusted even though they've already paid?
This is just one more reason to either not buy ebooks, or strip the drm off of the ones you purchase so you can you the book you BUY on all your devices without having to purchase multiple copies for no reason and have access to something you already bought when you want it.
If this was a one-of-a-kind experience, we could chalk it up to "live and learn." But a whole lot of living has gone on and the only lesson anyone's learning is the most efficient way to remove pesky DRM idiocy from their purchased "licenses" in order to turn them into actual, useful goods.
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Filed Under: drm, ebooks, failures, nook
Companies: barnes & noble
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All I can say is thank goodness that my hatred of DRM led me to download the DRM-ed copies the moment I bought them and then using a deDRM plug-in available for Calibre (and made especially for Barnes and Noble purchases) removed said DRM and now PERMANENTLY own the copies I legally bought and paid for. But, I know for a fact my mom hasn't done this, so I will definitely have to log in to her account and download the books and remove the DRM on her behalf. Which means two three. 1) More work for me and 2) Barnes and Noble has officially lost two paying customers and 3) I will make it a point to mention this to every single person I have recommended a Nook too.
ongratulations B&N. You have easily lost ten customers today, all of whom easily purchase at least a dozen books or so a month on their various Nook devices. And all of whom you will NEVER get back. I'll make it a point to find alternative sources for ebooks for myself and all those I know. And by alternative sources I mean legal ones who DO NOT pull this kind of crap on their customers.
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A more correct analogy than the glued paperback would be that I burned my first purchased copy. The store has a policy of issuing free replacements for purchased books, so I ask the store for a replacement copy of the paperback I already bought, downloaded and burned. The not-very-bright store clerk checks my account and sees that my credit card has expired, so refuses to give me another copy.
Admittedly this is bad programming (or bad specifications), but not so much a DRM issue.
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In a sense it could be looked at as a free extra and so having a barrier like needing an current credit card on file is not the same as having anything at all taken from you.
On the other hand if that requirement does bother you, you can always replicate the service for free, yourself by storing copies of your purchased ebooks in the cloud.
You could have done so on Megaupload but for some reason that doesn't seem to be available any more.
Still, I'm sure there are alternatives.
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Response to: Anonymous Coward on Nov 27th, 2012 @ 11:49am
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To this day, the only e-books I have paid for was that Humble Bundle from a few weeks back. They are the only e-books I feel safe in purchasing, because they're DRM free. I know for a fact that, barring a simultaneous crash of hard drives all around the world, I have access to the files forever.
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From their about page:
What is Smashwords’ position on digital rights management (DRM)?
We think DRM is counterproductive because it treats lawful customers like criminals. Consumers value non-DRMed content and there's a growing body of evidence that digital content producers who have abandoned DRM are enjoying greater sales. Many buyers of ebooks resent DRM because it limits their ability to fully own and enjoy their digital book. At Smashwords, we only publish DRM-free works. By the same token, we strictly discourage illegal pirating of an author’s works.
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Re: Re:ebook theft
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Buy to rent is not my idea of good investment.
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Funny, I have a different make of ereader and do buy books from Amazon. I don't have concerns that they will reach out and remotely deleting the content as the DRM is stripped from said ebooks in the process of converting them to be read by my device.
It does feel weird, that my one reason for defeating DRM is to allow me to purchase content. Nonetheless, defeated it is and I buy what I want to buy.
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We won the DRM battle with DivX discs and we won it with music. But computer games and digital distribution are shoving it back down our throats again.
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Re: the 'T' word
B&N stole a legitimately purchased book from a customer.
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Re: Re: the 'T' word
/sarc
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Re: Re: the 'T' word
No, they did not.
They made it slightly more awkward for him to retrieve copies of titles he had previously bought if anything happened to the original copies that he had already downloaded.
They are all still there and can all be accessed if he jumps through a minor and cost free hoop. It's a dumb way for them to manage that system, but it isn't by any definition theft.
It's fine to mock copyright maximalists redefinition of words, just don't let yourself start believing your own redefinitions.
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Re: Re: Re: the 'T' word
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Re: Re: the 'T' word
"(1) "Theft" means:
(a) To wrongfully obtain or exert unauthorized control over the property or services of another or the value thereof, with intent to deprive him or her of such property or services; or ..."
I think they did exactly this. Their control was unauthorized with the intent to deprive. Open and shut surely ?
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I can easily find download sites that deal with no DRM in an ebook and with no cost at all. So what is the reason I should put up with my purchases vanishing after having paid for them again? Storage on hard drives comes at pennies per megabyte and doesn't magically disappear.
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Like Barnes and Noble here and Disney streaming service which told its customers that anybody who bought anything from their rental/streaming/sale online service can apply for a refund.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57552205-93/disney-to-shutter-little-known-movie-streami ng-service/
People don't want a refund they want what they paid for.
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While I agree with the gist of your article, I don't think it's appropriate to use 'cross-eyed' as a negative connotation. People who are cross-eyed usually cannot help their condition, whereas parasitic corps exploiting their consumers can.
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Regardless, back on topic, B&N just became another business to avoid. I mean, who wants to purchase something knowing that it could disappear at some random moment in the future? Not good.
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nice try
You think being cross-eyed is POSITIVE?
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My books are all original and paper.They now range in value from around $5 to $1200.I have an Appraised Collection of $16,500 and the Appraisal was done very Conservatively.
My Son will get my library and he loves it.
your ebooks are worth nothing, can not be willed, can not be resold, and can be either deleted or made not to work.
So go ahead and have a cry...........I will be sitting on a goldmine that just keeps going up in Value.
Sorry but I do have a big hate for Electronic MAFIAA DRM BS.
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with digital storage and offsite storage, my house can get leveled, burnt to the ground, and then paved over, and I won't loose a book, photo, or video.
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His collection can be lost due to a single match, yours can be lost due to a single mouse click; there's not nearly as much difference between the two as you seem to think there is.
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However, as far as individual collections go, they are still just as equally vulnerable to being wiped out, which is what I was trying to point out.
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> single match, yours can be lost due
> to a single mouse click; there's not
> nearly as much difference between the
> two as you seem to think there is.
He said 'offsite storage', not cloud storage. I'm not sure how some stranger can delete the files I have stored on a spare drive at my girlfriend's house-- which is connected to nothing-- with a single mouse click.
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my best laugh of the day. Can I get your appraiser to come round and do my books.. better yet they can come round and I'll sell them for half their appraisal.
I'll still be ahead 500%
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So don't buy those readers.
"It has long since been paid for, so the status of the card on file has nothing to do with my ability to download said book." -- A common flaw of spoiled brats these days is compulsion to contradict sheer facts. Obviously it does matter regardless of what one believes or read or didn't read.
Also shows basic ignorance of this point of Fundamentals Of Rational Copyright:
) ... digital data is even less"owned" by the purchaser than with physical media, not more.
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Re: So don't buy those readers.
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Re: So don't buy those readers.
I wouldn't expect my books to become unusable merely because my giftcard wan out of credit. Nor would I expect my e-books to do the same. It's bugfuck crazy on the scale of Cthulhoid entities.
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Re: So don't buy those readers.
A common flaw of OOTB is a compulsion to be a dick, even when it appears he more or less agrees with an article and has to resort to attacking the victim.
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Re: So don't buy those readers.
A common flaw of OOTB is a compulsion to be a dick, even when it appears he more or less agrees with an article and has to resort to attacking the victim.
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Re: So don't buy those readers.
OK, you got us. It should be "should not matter" instead of "does not matter". Although, come to think of it, the author of that comment may have meant the LEGAL ability rather than the ACTUAL ability, in which case they would be correct.
In any case, since the person did purchase the rights to a copy of the book and is being denied the ability to download the book, this is probably fraud if not theft. Or at least breach of contract.
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Re: So don't buy those readers.
It wouldn't happen with physical books; why the hell would it apply to e-books, you dickhead? Rational copyright, my ass.
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Re: So don't buy those readers.
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Re: So don't buy those readers.
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Cognitive dissonance
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Re: Cognitive dissonance
But of course those who believe digital goods are the same thing as physical objects don't want to acknowledge this inconsistency.
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It's so you can't resell...
Riddle me this: I pay for it and use it often. It's mine and mine alone, but I can never resell it. It grows more valuable every day without me doing anything and I couldn't be happier with this arrangement. What am I holding?
It's not an e-reader, that's for sure.
It's my library card.
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Re: It's so you can't resell...
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I could adapt and use new technology, as a software developer you'd expect me to. But nope, not when I know they can pull crap like this to effectively steal my money.
I'd rather risk breaking or losing the paperback books then let them take a book away from me that I already paid for.
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Translation: You need a credit card to download your NOOK Book because we said so.
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This sounds more like a bug in there software.
Of course they can use an expired card as an encryption key. It is an encryption key and has nothing to do with the credit card. B&N fail.
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The point is that the only reason we never use a credit card on mobile device app purchases.
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What is the consideration in return for providing private, valuable information that is frequently misused? eg. marketing scams.
this isn't as big of an issue as everyone is making it out to be.
Actually it is - B&N is taking advantage of the fact that they control the book you supposedly own to force you to give them private information that they are not entitled to.
Ownership is, by definition, the right to control something and every time they reduce that control they are engaged in theft.
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Did you read the fine print?
Or something similar, I'm sure it's in there... just like all those 'download it now' software 'licenses' that only allow one download, don't allow re-starting failed downloads, or re-downloading after a system re-install....
We know we paid for something.... we just may not be able to get it, or recover it in the event that we lose it for some reason...
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Re: Did you read the fine print?
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No access to purchaed e-stuff if credit card has expired
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What's the Full Story, Morning Glory?
As I understand it, you need a valid credit card attached to the B&N (or Amazon, or iBooks) account to download anything, even a free book or a previously purchased book that's been removed from the Nook and archived on B&N's servers (which is apparently the case here). If the current card is expired, attaching a valid card should do the trick, right?
Or doesn't it?
Unfortunately, we're missing the full story. Did the conveniently anonymous user even attempt to contact B&N? What was their response? Seems to me this isn't even a DRM issue at all, but an accounting one.
Perhaps even an accounting issue that could be resolved. As it is, though, this little piece -- and the obligatory feeding frenzy of heated commentary -- seems more concerned with self-righteous outrage than resolution.
Perhaps a little more journalism and a little less ranting next time would be in order. And might even prove useful to those of us who don't want to lose any of our e-books.
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Re: What's the Full Story, Morning Glory?
A lot of people are now ditching credit cards all together.
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Re: What's the Full Story, Morning Glory?
Don't get me wrong, I hate DRM as much as anybody here. I just hate it for the right reasons--this is not really one of them. The problem I have with B&N's DRM is that it uses your credit card number as its encryption key--not a very good idea, and can create situations like this.
The person in the article is an idiot who spent more time bitching on the internet than it would have taken to solve the problem in the first place.
The solution to this problem is to add a valid credit card to your B&N account--a solution that can be found in less than a minute on any search engine. If that doesn't work it's a customer service issue. But they didn't follow through with that--so crappy journalism on the part of The Consumerist. It's like blaming B&N about not being able to download your books because your internet connection was canceled and you haven't gotten a new ISP yet--that's not their problem.
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Re: Re: What's the Full Story, Morning Glory?
No, the solution is to jailbreak the files you bought.
I get what you're saying - the author seems confused about how clouds work. If you forget your keycode for your storage facility, that's not the storage facility's fault.
But what they're REALLY upset about is being told they have to keep their property at a storage facility instead of at their house. I think that's fair. It's your stuff. Don't passively wait for somebody to give you permission - just take it home.
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Re: What's the Full Story, Morning Glory?
I also download tons of free books & apps, no problem.
I have close to 1900 physical books, I also pay no more than $5 for any of them, thrift stores & public library book sales are great for that!
I also have the most valuable thing any book lover could have..
A simple LIBRARY CARD!!
wow, what a novel idea!
In this age of commercialization & greedy corparations, I'll gladly keep my humble little library card..
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Re: What's the Full Story, Morning Glory?
I also download tons of free books & apps, no problem.
I have close to 1900 physical books, I also pay no more than $5 for any of them, thrift stores & public library book sales are great for that!
I also have the most valuable thing any book lover could have..
A simple LIBRARY CARD!!
wow, what a novel idea!
In this age of commercialization & greedy corparations, I'll gladly keep my humble little library card..
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Re: What's the Full Story, Morning Glory?
I also download tons of free books & apps, no problem.
I have close to 1900 physical books, I also pay no more than $5 for any of them, thrift stores & public library book sales are great for that!
I also have the most valuable thing any book lover could have..
A simple LIBRARY CARD!!
wow, what a novel idea!
In this age of commercialization & greedy corparations, I'll gladly keep my humble little library card..
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iBooks and Google Play
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more drm less customers
Wonder why people resort to "stealing" a copy they *can* use
B&N, Amazon, etc can sod off
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I know of no store that replaces your goods when you lose your bought item.
It's an added service that B$N offers, which is a nice thing.
While I do agree that it's stupid to tie it to a credit card, instead it should have been tied to the account.
But why should B$N keep offering the free download access if the client has lost access to said library?
Of course, in this case, the client can't help it that a credit card has an expiration date. But the client could've made his own backup copy of his library as well.
Who's duty is it to maintain the library of the client? The client or Barnes & Noble?
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I'm not going into how Google does it because my iPod is my e-reader. If I'm Apple's iBooks DRM only allows up to 5 devices tied into one iTunes account. e-books can be downloaded to one device at a time so all I have to do to transfer one of my e-books to say an iPad, I just delete the e-book from my iPod's memory and download it to the iBooks rack on my iPad. As much a hassle as it seems, as long as you've purchased that e-book from Apple's iBooks service, it is YOUR copy of a book. B&N not only disallows the use of your purchases from being transferred between your nook reader to another even if you own both, it delete any record that you ever purchased the book altogether.
So not all forms of e-book DRM are a hassle. It's just B&N making things worse for their customers as usual.
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Ridiculous
Some may say this isn't moral and that two wrongs don't make a right, but when it's the only option we have to prevent them from walking all over our rights morals can't exactly come into it. When there's a legal method to buy something digitally and there's absolutely zero chance it will disappear with no warning, no explanation, and no recompense I will gladly walk the straight and narrow.
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BFD
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I don't think this is accurate
To read your B&N ePub with a non B&N reader or app, you only need to know the CC/user name on file—at the time you download the epub file from your B&N account (from their web site). A hash of the CC and user name (not including expire date) is baked in and the reading system (assuming it implements the UI for prompting for username/CC) prompts for these (and only these) when you open the epub. So it doesn't matter if the CC is expired or not. There's no authentication that needs to happen with a B&N server, Adobe RMSDK simply hashes the credentials you supply and if they match the hash that is baked in, the book will open (and it will remember this hash and open other books that use the same one without prompting). It doesn't 'call home' to see if the CC is valid or anything like that. If you can't open the book, it is because you didn't type the credentials in correctly (note the B&N user name is used not the name on the CC).
That said, once you download it you need to keep track of these credentials or you won't be able to open the book. But as long as you can access your B&N account, you can always download a fresh copy and note the CC/user name on file and use that.
It might also be true that a Nook device or app won't let you side load an epub if your CC credentials or user name has changed since you downloaded it. They may not see the need to implement the dialog to ask for these, with the (only usually accurate) assumption that they can just use the same credentials the device/app itself is authorized with. As far as I know, they're currently the only vendor that uses passhash form of DRM and so they may regard any attempt to side load something protected with this type as an attempt at illicit sharing between two B&N customers. Again, the workaround would be to download a fresh ePub from the same account the device/app is authorized with.
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Whose property?
This amounts to a very serious violation of the equipment owner's property rights.
It goes further than that. Since nobody will keep putting up with that kind of equipment, DRM also requires outlawing alternative devices.
And even that is not the end of it. DRM eventually introduces the requirement to have full and continuous root-level control over other people's machines.
DRM not only requires the own citizens to join up but it also requires bullying other countries into signing up to it. And all of this has to be enforced at gunpoint.
So, eventually, pushed to the extreme, DRM assumes that a sufficient number of people can be found who are willing to die for someone else's profits. That is obviously where the bluff will end.
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Re: Whose property?
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Re: Whose property?
It would be nice if people actually cared about industry practices of companies they get their entertainment from. It would be nice if people picked up on the absolute disdain showed by publishers, their authors, retailers, and those in between.
Sure, it's all fine to say "I just wanna read the book, I don't care about anything else." And I get it, but there's a bigger world outside of one's own little wants. Years ago, I bought some bestseller paperbacks, completely unaware of industry practices. I was just happy to be reading. Then I got into ebooks, became interested and educated myself. Very rude awakening, to say the least.
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I would complain to the credit card company and ask my money back.
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This is what small claims court is for
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Huh?
True, he should be entitled to read books on his ereader (drm'd or otherwise). If you want to mirror the paperback analogy, try this: if you order something from a store - do they have to store it for you indefinitely until you pick it up?
Most stores have a 30-90 day grace period, after wich you forfeit you item. It's a classical case of bailment, akin to leaving your suit at the cleaners for an extended period of time.
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Re: Huh?
Companies can either use that ability, deliberately choose not to use that ability, or go somewhere inbetween by adding unnecessary hoops for people to jump through.
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DRM
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I have no words...
WTH? So the solution is to buy an ebook, then pirate it to make sure you get to keep it.
Maybe we should just pirate the books first, then if we like it, we can donate the book price straight to the author? Cut out middle-men distributors like this one?
Someone tell me what to do here.
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ownership
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Corrections
"ones you purchase so you can you the book you BUY"
ones you purchase so you can READ the book you BUY
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I refuse to buy books now because of all of this - I just go 'pirate' them by checking them out and reading them FOR FREE at the Library.
And no, I don't need to make a copy, I can just check it out again later.
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If people did not steal, this would not be an issue.
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e books and barnes and noble
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Presumptuous
I hate DRM as much as the next guy, but articles like these tend to attribute any and all inconveniences with accessing content to DRM, when they could easily have more benign explanations. It could be that his invalid CC prevents him from using any of the services associated with his account. This is more of an issue with downloading than with DRM per se.
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ironic
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Re: ironic
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Purchased eBooks only yours until your credit card expires...
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You're not purchasing a book
When you purchase a paper book you are NOT purchasing the written content you are are purchasing a container of the content. Paper. The content BELONGS to the author/publisher (the copyright owner). This is why it is illegal to make copies of it (generally).
ebooks are the same.
Unfortunately, between the "content" and the "reader" (the person) is a pile of poorly integrated technology and ill thought control mechanisms.
Apple, a few years ago, abandoned DRM completely. With iTunes I occasionally backup my purchased content. Further, If I wanted to I could put those songs on another device (non Apple) and they will play. Even prior DRM'd content can be de-DRM'd with a slight effort.
It is just a matter of time before Amazon and B&N remove DRM as well - or at least make their system idiot proof against their own idiots.
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You're not purchasing a book
When you purchase a paper book you are NOT purchasing the written content you are are purchasing a container of the content. Paper. The content BELONGS to the author/publisher (the copyright owner). This is why it is illegal to make copies of it (generally).
ebooks are the same.
Unfortunately, between the "content" and the "reader" (the person) is a pile of poorly integrated technology and ill thought control mechanisms.
Apple, a few years ago, abandoned DRM completely. With iTunes I occasionally backup my purchased content. Further, If I wanted to I could put those songs on another device (non Apple) and they will play. Even prior DRM'd content can be de-DRM'd with a slight effort.
It is just a matter of time before Amazon and B&N remove DRM as well - or at least make their system idiot proof against their own idiots.
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ebooks, drm and publisher greed
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Thanks
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wow, almost bought a nook!
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wow, almost bought a nook!
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Re: wow, almost bought a nook!
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Nookbook
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Lost Ebooks
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really?
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download my NOOK Book
To access your protected purchases, you must have an authorized credit card on record with Barnes & Noble.com. It does not necessarily have to be the credit card you used to purchase your NOOK Book(s).
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Credit card purchase of Nook EPub Ebooks
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way to go internet
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Fix for books that became unavailable after card expiration
I was researching why I could read one of my books on Nook, but not on my android after I downloaded it - although I was not sure this article would explain why, it did make sense that the card expiring would make your purchases unavailable on anything other than the original purchase location. I fixed my "unavailable due to card expiration" problem with accessing my e-books, by first, renentering my credit card on file info, then archiving the book, followed by un-archiving it - I can now read it on both devices again. Just thought I would share this fix...I am a happy camper again. Grins....
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free ebooks
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DRM is illegal, but the courts haven't noticed it yet.
I just lost all of the purchased music from my cell phone SD chip backup, and I'm currently investigating who to sue. I owned all of the content on that chip. I bought a new phone, and I tried to transfer my files, but only about half of my collection transferred. Then my son-in-law needed an SD chip, so I copied the contents of the chip to my computer's hard drive, verified the copy was good, and I formatted the chip. Just now, I tried to copy an album I purchased less than a year ago to my new phone, and not only is the content of that album gone, but the only file of any kind still in that SD chip backup folder, is one classical music recording. I'm sure they would have taken that too, if they could have found a way to claim "ownership" of something that's been in the public domain for over 100 years. They stole the rights to thousands of books and movies from the public when they convinced Congress to extend the period of time that special rights are allowed from the long-standing traditional 23 years (renewable once by an author or an author's family) to 99 years. That transfer of property from the public to corporations was illegal. Congress did not have authority to take property from the public in that way, especially just to give it to private internationally held corporations. I demand Congress return all of the property they stole from the public. Again, I state copyrights are a TEMPORARY EXCEPTION to the legal principle that all information belongs to the public. (That's why our public library system was created: to prevent copyright considerations from interfering with the public's more important and basic right for free access to information.)
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Previously PAID for books removed
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Previously PAID for books removed
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Previously PAID for books remove
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DMR
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Lost ebooks
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