TechCrunch Admits That Using Facebook Comments Drove Away Most Of Their Commenters
from the treat-your-community-right dept
I must admit to something of a minor fascination in how other sites manage their comments. As we've noted many times, we've personally found that keeping our comments pretty wide open fosters the best sorts of discussions in the long run. Yes, like any sites, there are some users who are annoying, and some who exhibit trollish behavior, but most people can get past that pretty quick. In fact, at times, those people (while frustrating initially) can spur some really interesting conversations. One thing we've never quite understood, however, is the attack on anonymity that so many sites insist upon. As we've seen over and over again, many of our most insightful comments have come from anonymous commenters.So I was actually surprised a few years ago when TechCrunch moved to switch all of its comments to Facebook comments, claiming that one of the good things about it was that it required you to provide your real name. Apparently that wasn't actually such a good thing for lots and lots of commenters -- as after nearly two years, TechCrunch has dumped Facebook comments and is pleading for commenters to come back.
Our comments are obviously far from perfect, but we've never been at a loss for having spirited discussions on nearly all of our posts. There's just something awesome about the community that likes to really dig into the various stories. That's part of why we've always viewed this site as a discussion site, rather than a "news" or "reporting site." We post stuff with our opinion because we expect people to respond -- good or bad, agree or disagree -- in the comments, and for some sort of discussion to ensue. That doesn't mean that we like to encourage trollish behavior, but we recognize that encouraging a real community has its benefits, and one key aspect to that is keeping the barrier low. Too many other sites seem to think the best way to deal with the messiness of some annoying commenters is to make it more difficult to comment. However, as TechCrunch has discovered, like chemotherapy, it's a solution that can kill off many of the "good" cells along with the "bad."
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Filed Under: anonymity, comments, community, ease of use, engagement, facebook comments, openness, techcrunch
Companies: facebook
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youtube.com###watch7-discussion
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Sometimes a topic gets completely derailed, even legitimately at times, but I don't want to see 30 posts on an off topic conversation. In fact I'd like the ability to collapse and expand entire threads regardless of how they were voted.
Choice and flexibility is the key to a successful comment system in my opinion.
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Whether one wants to call it censorship, moderation, or just cleaning up the forum, it still blocks an opinion.
It's detrimental to the idea behind an open discussion.
Yes, trolling bites. No question there. But what's the point in shutting down the original comment that spurned all the "good" discussion?
I should never have to unblock anyone's comment from a site that touts open commentary. It's contradictory, at the least.
Some of you take TD's position seriously, and I respect that, but under no circumstances should anyone determine what is trolling.
Because my tolerance of it far exceeds most around here. We're talking about the internet, after all.
If people don't like the trolling comment, perhaps people should stop feeding it.
As I've said before: to determine what's worse is difficult between those who troll and those who comment the troll, which entices them to keep trolling.
Open does not mean hidden.
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In fact, I'm more inclined to look at hidden comments.
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*however*, i do feel that the 'gentle' censorship of superficial 'hiding' the comment is really not very egregious; especially relative to what *most* sites practice in *really* censoring their comments...
again, i agree with your sentiment in principle, but think this is about as harmless a method as could be to keep the signal-to-noise ratio up...
overall, techdirt gets high marks for tolerating 'trollish' (one man's troll is another man's bridge toll collector) behaviors, as well as allowing essentially unfettered speech so we can pretend we are adults with a modicum of control over our lives and say 'pee pee' and 'poo poo' and shit...
sometimes you just gotta call a fucking dickhead a fucking dickhead, and nothing else will do...
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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I wouldn't say it block an opinion, but rather places a stigma on the commenter and usually for good reason. The majority of the comments I've seen get reported to the extent of being blocked are typically meant to goad people (mostly Mike) into a pissing contest with personal insults, which is not commentary or conducive to a public discussion.
Frankly, if the commenter wishes to be heard and taken seriously, it's his/her responsibility to express themselves cordially.
The other thing is, the report tool is driven by the community. In a way it's the community expressing it's disagreement with the commenter, so who is to say the community is wrong?
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This is exactly my problem with it, all too often it's the community expressing its disagreement with the comment rather than actually blocking spam or something like that (note that "all too often" here is about once in every 20 or so blocked comments, which is still too often). If the comment sucks, people will ignore it. We don't need the hivemind to hide something from everyone else because they think we can't just ignore it on our own.
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The fact remains, the report tool is a form of expression in it's own right. You may see it as pointless, but it still allows others to express their discontent when someone makes insults or attacks.
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It's detrimental to the idea behind an open discussion.
I understand where this sentiment comes from, but I'm afraid I don't see how it makes any sense when you follow it through.
It's impossible to have productive conversations, in any forum and on any topic, if every conversation is a free-for-all.
If you organized a conference to have an open discussion about daffodils, would it be wrong to turn away someone who wanted to deliver a keynote about screwdrivers? Would that be detrimental to your "open discussion", or would it simply be keeping things on topic? I think most would agree that it's okay to "moderate" a particular forum in order to keep things relevant.
Now, what if they wanted to deliver a keynote about how daffodils suck and this whole conference is stupid? It's on topic. Is it wrong to deny them access to your forum?
Now what if you say: sure, come give your speech. We'll give you a room and a mic. But if the attendees close the door to your room and just walk past it, that's their decision, and we're not going to force them to listen -- anyone can still open the door and walk in if they want.
Is that wrong? Because that's basically what happens here in the comments.
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Re: Re:Hidden
The hidden comments have been voted on by the community, the voting aspect of this site is part of what makes it interesting and keeps people returning. It isn't necessarily fair just as it isn't necessarily fair that something I find very funny doesn't get voted funniest post of the week.
Oh wait. Yeah it is fair, and it makes the site more enjoyable. Not everyone has the same tastes.
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This is disruptive to any discussion that aims to be reasonable (the purpose of a debate is to exchange ideas so that both parties, if they do not come to an agreement, at least learn something new); people shouting their opinions while refusing to listen to others would be shut down in a debate in real life as well.
The real issue is whether we can determine which posts are trolls and which ones are from reasonable people who just happen to have differing opinions.
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The usual trolls here do this often. If you pay attention you may notice for instance that they frequently resort to strawman arguments (e.g. they'll purposefully misrepresent what articles here are saying) or ad hominems.
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I've seen the fallout that TechCrunch has experienced. As soon as one of my favorite sci-fi sites started requiring Facebook posts, trolls started making personal attacks against people based on knowing their real names and what information they could glean from their profiles (or just googling their real names). It immediately soured the comment threads as anyone could suddenly become a victim of personalized trolling. Nobody needs that. And significantly, the trolls didn't care who knew their real names (if they even used their real names on their Facebook account) and the lack of anonymity didn't seem to reduce the offensiveness of their posts.
So I quit commenting there.
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Orly?
This site refers to those that choose to comment anonymously as "cowards".
All the while Masnick professes to claim he strongly supports the right to anonymity.
Just more of his usual intellectual dishonesty.
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I wish I were free to be brave. I wish I didn't have to be concerned about future employers knowing my thoughts about IP or trolls trying to make my AFK life hell just because they disagree with me. I wish my love for and my duty to my family didn't require me to shy away from proclaiming out loud all these things I believe with my name proudly attached to the letterhead. Sincerity and honesty are some of my most valued ideals in life. It's unfortunate that the honesty of my identity has to take a backseat to the liability of being honest in a world where the people with money and power believe that greed is a virtue, control is a right of the unethical, and apathy is a shield against the conscience they try to drown with money.
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You don't get out on the internet much, do you? "Anonymous Coward" is a traditional default name for those commenting anonymously. I believe Slashdot started the practice, but you find it all over the place. It's not intended or (usually) taken as an insult. TD didn't invent the practice, is far from the only one who engages in it, and clearly doesn't mean it as derogatory.
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All I could yet ask is for you to cease referring to us anonymous contributors as "cowards".
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I mean, when you work in the IT industry, the last thing you want are your personal opinions to be read by your current or future employers.
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seriously, there are VERY FEW 'industries' or other niches (mostly in the 'arts') where you are 'allowed' to be free-spirited enough to buck conventional wisdom and not face any/many consequences for it, IF/WHEN it becomes known...
now, IF your 'opinions' are so mainstream and conventional that they brook no opposition from the korporate overlords, then you are free to spout this ultra-controversial (sarc) opinion as much as you want without any consequences...
it is only when the nail sticks its head above the rest of the crowd, that The Man (tm) wants to hammer you back down to mediocrity... nails that don't pop up and make a nuisance of themselves, don't get the hammer...
which nail are you, citizen ? ? ?
hee hee hee
ho ho ho
ha ha ha
ak ak ak
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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I know there is Step2 with a type of forum but it is for specific items only. Yes the chat is there for those who use it, quite interesting to read, but still limited in some respects. A forum I think would be used and also it's a place to carry on conversations that are started in articles but go slightly (or fully) Off Topic.
Just a suggestion
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active, interesting threads 'go away' when their stories scroll off the frontpage, and it becomes annoying to keep up with them...
also, i mentioned how i like slashdot's 'rating' system, which allows everyone to customize their browsing level on the comments...
further, i was interested in how 'the community' might promote a debate where we would either vote or designate a couple people to go at some particular issue/point of debate... there are many times when one poster has cogent points 'con' the issue, and another is an effective 'pro', um, proponent, but their worthwhile debate can get lost in the noise (or even other useful comments)...
again, overall, can't get too worked up with how techdirt does its comments; about as open as can be, while maintaining a modicum of fairness and order...
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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"really interesting conversations" translation:
What drives the majority of your comment traffic, Masnick.
If the echo chamber fanbois here were left to only talk amongst themselves, this place would look like a societal-mores study gone horribly awry.
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Blargha flargha Derp I am a masochist Derp Blargha flargha
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I don't think this mean what you think it means.
Hint: they're not laws.
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Re: Facebook?
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Kudos to Mike
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Thanks for explicitly pointing out what I've long considered a strength of Techdirt.
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Unlike other sites, that have registration and captchas and questionnaires and and and ..., nobody here trys to sell me Luis Vuvuzela handbags and Marco Polo shoes.
That cant be a spamfilter, it must be sorcery
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Unlike other sites, that have registration and captchas and questionnaires and and and ..., nobody here trys to sell me Luis Vuvuzela handbags and Marco Polo shoes.
That cant be a spamfilter, it must be sorcery
Heh. It is a spamfilter (or, rather, a combination of a few different spam fighting methods, but none that involve user annoying things like captchas), though if it's indistinguishable from sorcery that's a good thing.
We still actually get hit with anywhere from 1,000 to 2,500 spam comments per day, but very, very few get through to the site. The one user annoyance is that every so often, there's a false positive, with a legitimate comment being held in moderation, but rarely for very long.
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Well you got that down right. I don't. Used to comment a good bit at TorrentFreak until they turned it over to Discus. After that I never made another comment as I hate being datamined.
Nor do I particularly like spam so giving out an email, real name, or some sort of ID beyond a nick of some sort, ain't gonna happen either.
Also used to do Ars Technica, that is until their stupid move about stealing their income if you were ad blocking. No worries, I left and didn't return. But I take ever opportunity to show how stupid it was.
Whether I comment or not, I do come daily to read the articles.
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I agree, that was a bad move for a site targeted towards tech geeks--the very people who are most likely to use ad blockers! I understood their POV though, the site cost money. I would have even considered whitelisting the page too, if it wasn't for those huge annoying animated ads they were running at the time that totally wrecked the flow of the articles! I'm sure companies like HP were paying them a ton of money to run them, but it was totally killing their readership. After a long standoff, Ars not only backed off and dropped the attitude, they opened a paid subscription service as an alternative. I've heard that it actually worked out well.
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Instead of facebook a required sign in
You will now be creating �TechCrunch� accounts where you can sign in socially and all of your comments will be tracked on your profile screen, which is launched by clicking on a username. This means you can maintain your anonymity, but there is still accountability as your comments are all attached to one profile.
That will not do them any good - no one likes to be tracked
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It's bad that they still require registration to leave comments. That alone will prevent me from returning.
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http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130120/19474321739/secondhand-mp3-dealer-redigi-expan ding-into-europe-tangling-with-whole-new-set-ip-laws.shtml
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So thank you for the info, nope not going to comment under those circumstances. Let it go to the younger crowd that doesn't see an issue with Facebook and the like robbing data where ever it can get it.
I won't be signing up.
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It's not all about anonymity
That means facebook, twitter, g+ and a whole raft of social services are blocked - you can't actually sign in to post.
Heck I use noscript to avoid hitting the corporate firewall logs too much so I don't even get to read comments from social accounts.
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Surprised about this
FB Comments have a lot of other advantages. When I get a reply (and they handle threading quite nicely), it shows up on my Alerts, making me more likely to read and engage with it. The UI is speedy and simple. Plus, on a site like TC, where there's a lot of crossover between online and offline relationships, it's helpful to see who I know in a thread, and be able to identify them with both a name and face.
Plus, it seems like the shift to FB comments has made the tone on TC a bit less troll-y and obnoxious, but that's a subjective call.
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Whatever the advantages are (most of what you cite I wouldn't call an "advantage", but that's neither here nor there), the disadvantage is that everyone who isn't a facebook member is immediately disenfranchised.
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Glad they have come to their senses and are no longer alienating a lot of people from the discussion.
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The problem with that alternative is that Disqus completely sucks in its implementation. Between the two, I'd rather a site used facebook, because either way I won't be commenting, but at least facebook doesn't slow the page loading time down to a crawl.
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Thanks
Thanks for allowing both anonymity and pseudonymity here. While neither is absolute, they can help us separate our lives into compartments we can feel comfortable with.
I've noticed in the last year or so that more and more places online are requiring "real names". In consequence, I'm visiting less and less places online. I'm just glad I can still lurk, and occasionally post, here.
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Real Names ???
So go ahead and use the "real name" of your choice. Any of the sites that restrict what someone puts in as their name doesn't have clue as to what people have named their children.
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Also went and looked
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Re: Also went and looked
You can try google chrome and the same thing happens.
Took me a good 30 minutes to figure out how I can do a bunch of extra work so I can read those Comments and add my own.
Using this type of system is a step backward and unnecessary.
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Re: Also went and looked
With ghostery, you can allow scripts in your other plugins temporarily, yet ghostery still blocks the site when it recognizes it as tracker
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I like being able to quickly drop a comment on a random article and move on, for places that i don't visit often. If i have to create yet another account, on yet anothewr site...i'll usually just say fuck it and move on.
obviously not an issue at techdirt.
My only issue with the facebook social plug in is that it seems buggy as shit. often i'll get notification s for new commments, but when i get tro the article nothing actually shows in the comments section.
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What??? You criminal you!!
/sarc (unless have you actually read the US laws then it's /sad_but_true )
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Seems Yoda the strong me in Yes?
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I like the idea of having all my accounts rolled into one single login, BUT the amount of spam, fake links, phishing, and so on makes me not want it. In addition to that, I like some separation. Ultimately it should be a choice: Either comment using FB or comment using your login for that specific site.
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Why Anonimity works
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That persistent trolls are taken serious as 'our usual critics' by the article writers (I've seen Mr. Masnick say this). Initially this made me believe that these trolls were actually serious about the bs they were saying (and I keep seeing people who still think that).
While I'm glad I've learned that they're (out_of_the_blue, average_joe and some other guy I can't name atm) just trolls and don't seriously believe what they're writing not everyone realises this.
I believe in the 'don't feed the trolls' (just flag as spam and move on) this community appears fascinated by responding to those trolls with earnest response that I don't think they deserve.
Other than that, this article is the reason I follow techdirt and not some other site.
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We're neither, although you all pretend to not already know that.
We're either artists, or people (like AJ) concerned about righting wrongs and stopping the exploitation of artists.
This site, and all the other Google funded frontgroups and astroturf entities like Public Knowledge, EFF, Free Press, etc seek to make artists serfs, and to use the fruits of their labor to make Google more money. And that's something Google has a lot of; in fact they have so much cash that SEC rules require them to be classified as a bank. They had to get an exemption for this in 2006.
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You like the DMCA so much? Here, have a DMCA vote! Give hurricane head a dick up the ass while you're at it.
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It was what kept me here
Do trolls suck? Sometimes. Some of our resident trolls do provide an insight on the maximalist point of view. Insults aside it is a view into the way they think and it is import to show PPL that those views do exist by (i am giving the benefit of the doubt here) regular people, not just corporations or those who stand to benefit.
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Whereas, when I applied they just let me in. Apparently "Nonken" is pretty common (Huh? What?) but Student isn't.
When I was running a BBS I once got a logon application from a guy named Joker. Looked it up... yep, there were several in the phone book. I wonder how many Jokers have been refused by FB?
But I have to wonder: if everybody has to use a real name, and prove it, what's the story behind this?
In the meantime, using your real name is no guarantee of civility. I've met a lot of people who are assholes in person, never mind hiding behind a computer. (Cue Dark Helmet...)
Of course this has all been said before, but the comment is buried under half a ton of garbage. I don't expect anybody to read it. Except maybe Officer Obie.
(P.S. Ms. Student has recently married. I asked her if FB would let her join now that she has a "real" name. She just laughed.)
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Do as we say, not as we do.
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It pisses me off when I'm on TF and I see a comment that has been removed.. It just makes me so curious to what they said. It drives me crazy when I know I'll never know.
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The whole 'you MUST use your real name' does not work anyway.
How can it? I have 3 FarceBOOK accounts They are obviously not in my real name, how can any internet service demand your real name unless they also need proof of it.
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tech diapers i need ask question. am having serious problem with current man diaper. is container diapers really containing. if so will switch to yor brand diaper
please to respond
tybor tybor97@gmail.com
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Why would you pollute such a lovely brand as techdirt with the filth that is facebook?
Makes it look to me as if you are looking for stupid people to drop you a line. HAHAHAHA
How do we get rid of all the technically sophisticated readers? Wait I know! We can use facebook comments. Nothing will terrify them more than the wrath of joe sixpack.
Lets have tech comments from people who couldn't do html. HAHAHAHA
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FB is a social disease
and note that after posting all this garbage about creating an app and such, they end with announcing they've switched to Disqus - which I've found far easier to use and post comments with. FB is a nightmare if you don't jump through all their little hoops.
I bet it's driven away most commenters from most other sites, too.
FaceBook is not a social media, it's a social disease.
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Bad idea
Honeymoon Destinations
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Disagree
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Social Media Supplier
thank you
buy reverbnation plays
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interesting
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why facebook
I have never used Facebook but have signed up several times. No wonder they have a billion users when everyone is forced to sign up or be irrelevant.
give us a choice- such as using our email
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Facebook needed
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sports
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yourmum
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Facebook = Evil
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Awesome
I have 74 facebook accounts (before they started phone verification) and don't remember any of them. I don't deal with any site that uses facebook. It is a virus that is ruining the comments of the Internet, ruining the whole reason people use the Internet (anonymity) and is stealing everyone's meta data, personal info and turning the Internet into a cesspool of advertising (more than it already is).
This comment is brought to you by smart people who don't use facebook comments and understand the empowering effect of being anonymous.
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jewelley
Shopping experience redefined! Shop exclusive and authentic diamond jewellery online on: http://jewellerymumbai.com/
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facebook
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