Armed UK Police Raid House Over Facebook Picture Showing Toy Weapon In Background
from the let's-get-rational dept
One of the reasons Techdirt rails against exaggerated responses to supposed terrorist threats is that it has caused police forces around the world to lose all sense of proportion -- literally, in the case of this UK story from the Daily Mail.
It began when Ian Driscoll decided to post a picture to his Facebook page. It was of an Action Man doll, accompanied by a toy Alsatian dog. Why? you might ask. Well, "as a laugh", he says, because the Action Man figure looked a lot like him, and he had a real Alsatian -- which sounds entirely reasonable. What Driscoll did not note at the time, though, was that lurking in the background of the picture was another toy: a model mortar.
Luckily, Driscoll was there, and was able to defuse the situation by showing them the mortar in question. He was able to point out that it was in fact only slightly larger than the nearby Playstation that was clearly visible in the snap he had posted, and considerably smaller than the table that was also prominent in the Facebook picture. He might even have pointed out that the figure and dog in his upload were quite obviously toys to anyone who spent more than three seconds examining the picture. The police had presumably decided not to waste those precious three seconds before acting. Instead, as a spokesperson later said:
'We are sure that the community would rather we acted quickly on information given to us of this nature, in case it had turned out to be a weapon.'
Well, no, actually: what the community would really like is for the police to use some intelligence before reaching for the sub-machine guns. If they had just stopped and looked carefully at the picture, it would have been evident that there was no possible threat here. And that's likely to be the case for many other incidents around the world where the police have assumed the worst.
That not only represents a huge waste of their valuable time and resources, it also perpetuates the corrosive idea that we should be constantly afraid and ready to report anything and anyone odd or vaguely suspicious, no matter how absurd it would seem to anyone looking at things rationally. This then creates a self-sustaining loop of public fear and police over-reaction. It's time to scale the rhetoric back, and to make common-sense judgments common again.
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Filed Under: overreaction, police, social media, terrorism, threats, toys, uk
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For God sake Mike, you should get psychological treatment. Your conspiracy theory obsessive compulsive disorder has reached absurd levels.
Disclaimer: The author of this comment strongly believes the authorities will understand this is a fictional post and will not raid Techdirt searching for potentially dangerous games and DH nude pictures.
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I'm not saying that this is either 100% made up or a distorted reporting of what actually happened to the point of essentially being complete fiction, but... yeah.
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http://goo.gl/CC0q2
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Gloucestershire police spokeswoman Alexa Collicott said: �The information was given to us in good faith and we acted with good intentions. We are sure that the community would rather we acted quickly on information given to us of this nature, in case it had turned out to be a weapon.
But they forgot to use what should be the most important tool in their arsenal, their brains (and the road to hell is already paved with enough "good intentions" and "I was only following orders").
I mean why not just simply find the guys house and "nuke it from orbit" with good intentions, of course. After all "It's the only way to be sure". Sure, they used a "measured response" appropriate to the situation, but they didn't "measure" anything (See "Worlds Biggest Remote Control" in picture to get my meaning).
Doctor Who would have happily kicked their ass out of the TARDIS if they pulled some crap like that and I and others would have cheered him on.
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What about the sub-machine gun?
I also don't see dog tags on that dog. It should be sent to the pound.
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Re: What about the sub-machine gun?
That will only happen when he tries to board a plane.
�Safety Threat�? Toy Soldier�s �Firearm� Banned from UK Flight
"A couple boarding an international flight at England�s Gatwick airport unknowingly set off alarms when they tried to pass a small British military figurine through security in one of their carry-on bags."
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BBC link
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http://i.imgur.com/S61vF3t.jpg
because:
http://i.imgur.com/s3fDISJ.jpg
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something
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Based on that the only thing that is going to rain the forces of totalitarianism in is ample fire power combined a social movement based on total destruction of the professional hate bastards which will only come about when phrase for hate is converted into total disgust at the idea that someone else is going to be my protector without them becoming my slave master.
This is back to Mow's idea that power comes out of the barrel of a gun which means only those with the guns have the power and everybody else is a slave to the power holders.
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Re: "..rain the forces..", "..Mow's idea..."
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Proportion
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LMFAO "...guns blazing..."
The British police do not carry firearms however special squads may be armed for specific purposes. They did not enter the man's house guns blazing. The article was not written by Mike. Insane ranting about Mike's mental state claiming to be fictional just look stalkerish. All round FAIL here.
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Re: LMFAO "...guns blazing..."
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Re: LMFAO "...guns blazing..."
This is how people holding cell phones and kitchen knives get "accidentally" shot.
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Re: LMFAO "...guns blazing..."
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One thing is for sure
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Re: One thing is for sure
http://www.businessinsider.com/drone-toy-for-kids-draws-criticism-2013-1
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"to the extent of sending five officers, two armed with sub-machine guns"
What do you want them to take to a house with a reported guy with a mortar. Pepper spray???
Typical media, embellishing a non-story to make it a story. Techdirt has a hard on for any government action and looks to make a big deal out of nothing. And the sheep continue to follow.
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"Reported" mortars are actually harmless when compared with ACTUAL mortars, so it's safe to engage a suspect with a "reported" mortar using less-than-lethal methods, like going up to his door and asking "can we check your house for mortars? Some moron reported that you had a REAL one.".
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Are you actually advocating support for people who get sent pictures and can't tell miniaturised models from the real thing?
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What I *want* them to do is look at the feckin picture for 2.3 seconds and realize it's OBVIOUSLY a toy and not send ANYONE to investigate.
THAT would have been the professionally and fiscally responsible thing to do.
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In addition to the "insightful" and "funny" tags for comments, can we get one called "frakking moronic" for comments like this one? It'd make a great addition to the Sunday roundup.
Coog
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Well why not? A mortar is an indirect-fire weapon with a high arc, so it's not as if he can use it when the police are inside the house, or even on the front doorstep.
And if he sees them coming down the road and starts lobbing bombs on their heads out of the bedroom window, he's going to be behind cover, so the sub-machine guns aren't going to help there either.
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Pepper spray would have been the better option, yes.
Mortars are worse than worthless as short range weapons, and a short range weapon is what you'd need to attack someone knocking on your door. Even if it were real, it posed no serious threat to the officers.
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-ftfy
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WTF is wrong with you people?
Now the police can go into everywhere and shoot dead anyone on "allegations" alone and come out saying they are sorry but the community would want us to shoot first and ask questions later?
At least this one didn't die like the other poor sod in the tube.
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No, I was pretty sure that only the citizens of the UK don't have them.
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Get Real!
Everybody knows you send wrestlers to take down dinosaurs!
http://i.imgur.com/sEjmsi8.jpg
Get Serious!
Sheesh!
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That is 'Shoot first, ask questions later' logic. I do not think the public prefers you to over react then analyze a situation. It is also dangerous to the Police.
If you're against an strategic minded terrorist and they knew that's all it required for the police to charge in.... well that's call bait, and a REAL terrorist could have the house rigged, the street rigged, and any place the police would be when raiding a house (as stated in the police's own standard operating procedure). I guess it's just easier to ignore all that and pick on safe targets to pretend you're working.
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If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.
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Inceasingly Poor Decisions
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Stop the gun BS
They do not normally carry guns. Only when they think the person has a weapon.
And you dumb attitude only makes thing worse rather than helping.
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Re: Stop the gun BS
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323777204578195470446855466.html
" The results have not been what proponents of the act wanted. Within a decade of the handgun ban and the confiscation of handguns from registered owners, crime with handguns had doubled according to British government crime reports. "
What would you propose to 'help' ?
Clearly panicky , over the top police actions don' help either.
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Re: Stop the gun BS
A mortar is not a weapon?
And Techdirt isn't reporting that the cops had guns, the source article is saying it.
And you dumb attitude only makes thing worse rather than helping.
Pot, meet Kettle
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Gun is too big
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It's everywhere
But really, the over reaction to a child making a picture is ridiculous. The School Board, the Police and the City all state they did the appropriate response to the issue. This man most likely will not be allowed to ever go to many other countries as there are police records of him relating to a Gun search and investigation. Mere records of Police involvement is enough to bar someone from entering the US from Canada. Not to mention that he was stripped searched, home searched, lost 24 hours of his life, was helpless in protecting his children and basically had no protection or rights! and not even charged let alone any evidence at all.
The bad guys will be bad guys, but the good guys are the ones taking the brunt from excessive policing. Where are our rights! where is the proportion!
here is one link to the story
http://www.examiner.com/article/canadian-father-arrested-strip-searched-after-child-draws-p icture-of-toy-gun
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Re: It's everywhere
Not only was the warrant for the no-knock raid obtained with false info, the police raided the wrong house.
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Raids put lives in danger, polices lives too. They can not be done without due process and proper checking or lives and property are put at risk for unnecessary reasons.
Police don't need to really change how they do work, just stop being lazy on the investigation before rushing to perform a raid on a house.
Wa co Texas rings a bell. That is an example where a raid went bad! and more force would not have helped in that case. Maybe a polite knock on the door and "may we speak to .." could have ended that situation without a loss of life?
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/the-agitator/
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Raids need to stop
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Re: Raids need to stop
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/radley-balko/
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Look at it from the Gov't Employee's point of view.
This is the fault of the "scape goat" culture that pervades the government.
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Re: Look at it from the Gov't Employee's point of view.
We either send someone around or, if the mortar is actually real
Let's stop right there and think about this. Look at the picture again. There is no way, whatsoever, that this could be a picture of an actual mortar. There is no reasonable explanation for what happened, unless it's "The Daily Mail made it up".
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Re: Look at it from the Gov't Employee's point of view.
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Big and Near, Big and Far Away, Small and Near, Small and Far Away
Big and Near can not be confused with Big and Far Away
But
Small and Near can be confused with Big and Far Away
The mnemonic for this is BANCNBCWBAFABSANCBCWBAFA. Easy.
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Re: Big and Near, Big and Far Away, Small and Near, Small and Far Away
though the Constabulary and the Pollies would prefer FIGJAM
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Re: Big and Near, Big and Far Away, Small and Near, Small and Far Away
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh5kZ4uIUC0
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no chance in hell of that! now that governments and law enforcement have begun to turn countries into Police States, do you really think they are going to stop, just because they dont know (or dont want to know) the difference between real and toy anything? get outta here!!
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The second problem is the you're giving the Daily Fail traffic.
Seriously, the only 'news source' more biased is Fox.
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So... these cops are so pitifully trained that they mistook a toy mortar for the real thing?
Does this make anyone more confident in their abilities? lol
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If you thought the UK cops didn't carry automatic weapons, you need to go out more and stop watching CNN and FOX and Hollywood. Read a little and learn.
"Then two weeks later, he used the mortar to bomb a school" and cops were heavily criticized for not going anything. See where this is going?
Nothing about this was over the top and I would not expect anything less from any logical law enforcement. I guess in the states you're so used to illogical enforcement.... yeah.
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So you're trolling, right?
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Let's make a little addition and see if your answer changes, shall we?
Nothing about this was over the top and I would not expect anything less from any logical law enforcementeven if it was my house.
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What are they supposed to do? Knock and hope you're just a nice person with toys as opposed to a nutcase that'll blast your way through cops? Nice try but no cigar.
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Better to be safe than free, right?
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Better be free and safe than dumb and get swat teams bursting in.
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You're not free if you don't own toys because you're afraid of what your government will do to you if do.
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If you are deciding not to own *perfectly legal items* out of fear for what your government might do to you, there is a problem. I hope you can see that.
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I hope it is not painted olive drab, black, silver, white or any other threatening color, otherwise he might get a unwanted visit from the local constabulary.
Perhaps he could get away with just painting around the front tip area "safety orange", so the cops will think it is only a toy telescope.
Make sure to tell him not to point it toward planets, stars, nebula, galaxies or any other celestial phenomena, unless he plans to shoot them... with a camera, of course.
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Small mortars...?
Seems to me their actions were also pretty bloody mild compared with what we've come to expect from the US, Canada, or even New Zealand these days!
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Re: Small mortars...?
If that were the case, then they conveniently ignored the "would have to be gigantic remote" and even worse the Playstation 2 Slim to the right standing up on its side with known dimensions (230mm wide = 9 inches wide) right next to the skirting-board that would have immediately let them know the approximate height of said skirting-board, and use this to figure out how high the pictured mortar was in realty without having to set one foot inside this mans house.
It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure this one out, but in this day and age it's much easier to get a warrant and have law enforcement look like fools, than to do the simple math.
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The problem with common sense is that sense isn't very common.
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This is a good thing
Stop condemning police who do their job, this is EXACTLY what they should be doing, they didn't shoot anyone but they IMMEDIATELY resolved the situation.
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Every time I catch the train and see the sign telling me to call the police if I see an unattended bag, which I never see. unattended rubbish on the other hand...
When I see unattended rubbish on the train, or at the train station I really am tempted to call the bomb squad, cause;
i) without touching the seemingly placed object, how can i assume it's just rubbish, and it COULD be an explosive
(there was a news piece on a tabloid show a year ago about kids selling a chemical mix that fits in a drinking can and gets serious flamage when it goes off)
ii) if there wasn't all this garbage lying around, then a bomb would be suspicious. so now we're pretty numb to any real threats
iii) gotta get the these people to work for their money and I'm sure they're not getting enough calls. thus perpetuating the taxes put aside to justify the department.
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