RIAA Still Can't Figure Out How To Use Google's DMCA Tools, Blames Google
from the but-of-course dept
This will hardly comes as a surprise, but the RIAA and other "anti-piracy groups" are still complaining that Google "isn't doing enough" to prop up their old and obsolete business models. The latest complaint? That Google's system only accepts a mere 10,000 DMCA takedowns per day and somehow that's just not enough. It turns out that this isn't actually true, but we'll get to that in a moment. Much of the article focuses on Dutch extremist anti-piracy group BREIN saying that the limit needs to go away. But there is this bizarre statement from the RIAA as well:“Google has the resources to allow take downs that would more meaningfully address the piracy problem it recognizes, given that it likely indexes hundreds of millions of links per day. Yet this limitation remains despite requests to remove it,” RIAA noted.This seems wrong on a variety of levels. As we noted last year when the RIAA raised some of these complaints, part of the problem appears to be that the RIAA doesn't understand how Google's tools work. There are some technical limitations in terms of how many URLs a "trusted partner" using automated means can submit at once, but no actual limit on the number of URLs that can be submitted total. There's a practical reason for the setup: in case an automated system goes haywire, Google wants to be able to catch it. But that's it. It does not limit the searches or the ability to submit DMCAs. We asked Google for specifics, and they confirmed:
In addition to unthrottling the URL limits, RIAA also says it wants to lift the cap on the number of queries they can execute per day to find infringing content.
“Google places artificial limits on the number of queries that can be made by a copyright owner to identify infringements.”
While there is no limit on the number of DMCA notices that a copyright owner or reporting organization may send us, we put safety limits on the number of automated submissions that partners can make at one time using our tools in order to protect our systems from technical problems. We increase these limits for partners who have demonstrated a consistent track record of submission quality and volume.On top of that, there's the issue that takedown notices go through a review process before the takedowns happen, to hopefully weed out abuse. For the RIAA to compare handling of takedown messages to the automated process of searching is really bizarre. It's basically them saying they want to be able to automatically takedown any content with no review whatsoever. That's a massive problem for a variety of obvious reasons. Indexing the web for search is an automated process. Taking sites down requires at least some level of review, even if only cursory. Apparently, the RIAA not only misunderstands the tools available, but also the DMCA process itself.
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Filed Under: copyright, dmca, limits, takedowns, tools
Companies: brein, google, riaa
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Actually, they understand quite well. To youse your own words:
It's basically them saying they want to be able to automatically takedown any content with no review whatsoever.
If Google did zero reviewing they would not be complaining.
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Google hasn't given them the "shut off the internet" button yet.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Stu dios,_Inc.
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Response to: Ninja on Feb 20th, 2013 @ 6:58am
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Re: Response to: Ninja on Feb 20th, 2013 @ 6:58am
This kind of thing as usual hurts the users and the smallest of OC creators. The big companies own their own distribution and marketing channels so they don't care of their videos get taken down from another service.
IMO this has always been less about piracy and more about limiting choice and keeping people for realizing that to be an artist you don't need a multi-million dollar contract and a greasy publisher.
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Sounds about right.
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And have Hollywood Accounting rules apply.
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The things you can blame them for is ignorance, misinformation or bastardisation of good praxis science and lack of coherent logical ideals. Those areas are so large and important to educate people about that news about how deranged they are, can justify a complete blog of its own...
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They can never be satisfied because their whole job depends on not being satisfied.
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Ah, so the RIAA & MPAA & DiarrheAA groups are all whiny forever-useless American women? That explains so much.
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(bribes and suchlike)
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Is Google in control of the actual server serving that page?
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You know, at some point, there might be some piracy focused search engines that stay underground. But the RIAA won't notice. These people are not that bright.
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Those are called private trackers.
I know of at least 3. They have tons and tons of games, movies and music, and thousands of users, but no one bothers them at all. It's baffling. It's like, I dunno, they are targeting Google specifically for some nefarious reason.
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Imagine if the Chinese or Russians become the leaders in search and are the ones getting all that juice traffic, what would that mean for the US?
http://searchenginewatch.com/article/2242374/Yandex-Just-Passed-Bing-to-Become-4th-Largest-Gl obal-Search-Engine?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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What other "unrelated" search engine? There's no such thing. Search = Google. When you try to find something on the net, you "google" it, not "duckduckgo" it, nor "altavista" it, etc.
Those "other" search engine? That's just Googgle re-branding for specific demographics, or maybe even shell companies setup so Google can say "competition"...
...or so thought people related to the ??AAs...
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Understatement
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They're morons, with not a thought given to those who would be shut down despite being completely innocent. As long as their imaginary "lost" income is somehow protected, they don't care about anyone else's.
But, part of me wishes they could get what they want. Unlimited notices with action taken immediately without review. On recent evidence, I'd give them a day before they've removed their own content from the web completely.
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But they still complain when they have this ability. They complain that Google, or whomever, should have somehow known that the content wasn't infringing and therefore should have been automatically ignored for that specific request. No matter what happens or what laws are passed and enforced the RIAA will never be happy.
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I have a lot of fun with Bing's dmca agent. Google's is no fun, they just take it out of the results without any fun and games. Bing has many excuses and it set up like the rest of the 'customer service' functions - designed to make you go away or at least have to create some fxxing live, bing, hotmail, id (or something).
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Nowadays, only when a site is hosting my software, do I send a dmca. Although, I working out a way for everyone to be happy, the pirates can pirate my software, and for those that would've paid, I might be able to entice them them to pay.
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I used to know someone like that - he'd automatically download everything added to certain music feeds, then end up deleting half of it straight away either because they were duplicates or something he wouldn't like. None of those downloads are lost sales, and I dare say that if he couldn't have downloaded like that he'd just use radio streams or - at most - Spotify. Thousands of downloaded tracks, and at most they represented lost revenue of around £5/month (assuming he paid Spotify and didn't just put up with the ads).
That's why this whole thing is so stupid and frustrating. The methods being used to address piracy on the fantasy assumption that those people can be made to pay are actively losing them sales from the people who already do. Rather than realise that, they just double down on the wrong tactics and make things worse, while causing all manner of unacceptable collateral damage and unintended consequences.
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I can see no other conclusion.
if a then b
also, not just search engine links, but the host too. Even if the site has a 'DMCA' agent, i still target the host, its much more fun and usually, they are more professional than the warez site owners.
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Have you tried contacting them to resolve it some other way? Not being snarky, I am genuinely interested. I'm a software developer myself but not in a way that I have to worry about piracy.
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Its just a site that parses google results, shuffles the order a bit and shoves shitty wallpaper over the results.
Everytime Google changes their API it "breaks" bing which can't return anything. I don't even think Bing HAS its own server/search system to be honest.
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In Related News
Spring Manufacturers Association of America (SMAA) Blames Electric Motor Companies
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They want to be
"only accepts a mere 10,000 DMCA takedowns" Yeah they want to put 100,000 a day even if 20 - 40% are wrong.
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Forget Google, it's obviously the public their customers, and their customers they don't understand...
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FTFY.
Google can't get sued soon enough. All of this is a precursor to that. Can't wait.
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And for what purpose? Google actually gives them more tools than anyone else to fight infringement and platforms for monetizing their stuff.
From a strategic point of view, attacking Google right now is a boneheaded idea. More so if you consider that there are many more targets worthy of attention.
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Re: customers
Who do you think RIAA's customers are? It's not the public...
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RTFM.
Sincerely,
Stressed, Overworked Techies Everywhere
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"They won't pay for things that are our problems when we tell them to!"
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Which means they are fucked.
They hire lowest bidder companies who churn out tons of results, and the cartel membership thinks the number submitted is the quality indicator.
If the **AA's want to cram more results into the system, they need to start paying for every bad submission.
Google isn't getting a handout from the government to process these takedowns, and when HBO's agent is submitting content on HBO.com as material to be removed it should be clear to anyone that they are doing it wrong.
Instead the **AA's are working on trying to get someone with authority to demand that Google give them better access. Oh we can't submit as many as we need to, make them give us direct access. We are being robbed blind and we need special powers because IP is worth way more than the rule of law.
Lets just charge them $50 for each url they submit that isn't actually the work. The system will get much better.
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They are already poisoned because they use the crappiest methods, they do no checking, and just throw them at Google and tell them to take care of it and put the effort into making sure they don't remove/censor the wrong links.
I think the $50 for each bad hit would get the attention of the cartel membership and make them aware that the **AA is lying that this system works. They understand money much better than they understand tech.
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This would both stem the tide of bogus takedowns and save the USPS at the same time. Think of all the stamps!
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That would probably not qualify them for DMCA safe harbor protection.
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RIAA (and other's) takedown notices
1) No automatic tools can be used to issue take down notices.
2) 3 invalid take down notices and no further take down notices can be issued AT ALL.
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So, does the limit to the number of requests apply to the fax and snail-mail submission methods?
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AOL was better at running the Internet
Can we please put AOL back in charge.
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Re: AOL was better at running the Internet
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Re: AOL was better at running the Internet
"What AOL did......what the RIAA does"
Cornering your customers into TOS contracts....BMG Rootkit scandal.
Sends out free samples encouraging you to buy into their in house services.....Suckers customers into pay per listen schemes and UltraViolet.
Blocked off AOL users from the real World Wide Web and substituted their own content....sells discs that make DRM laden MP3 files due to watermarking scheme (for which they got sued for)
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