Make A Counterstrike Map Of A Montreal Metro Station, Get Threatened With $50,000 Fine
from the let's-make-decisions-based-on-our-worst-fears dept
The intangible fear that something might go wrong at an undefinable point in the future tends to paralyze bureaucratic entities, reducing them blurting out bizarre statements based on flawed logic and paranoiac "what if" theories. At times, this sort of thought process seems almost rational -- when it comes to public areas, sometimes you can't be too careful.At other times, however, these arguments border on hysteria strained through myopia, like this recent dustup over the hallowed halls of the Montreal metro station.
Despite its age and popularity, there has apparently never been a Counter-Strike map specifically set in the Great White North. Diego Liatis and some friends thus decided to take the job on themselves, and came up with what appears to be a pretty decent rendition of Montreal's Berri-UQAM station. But the work has attracted the attention of the city's transit authority, and not in a good way.Well, no matter what Liatis believes, the Société de transport de Montreal (STM) believes Liatis can't. Or, considering the fact that he's already completed his map, the STM strongly believes that he shouldn't. Why? Well, because bad stuff could conceivably happen.
Liatis requested permission to recreate the station in January, but the STM refused to grant it. He went ahead with the design anyway, because he doesn't believe he can be legally forbidden from recreating a public space.
"[The STM] told me that they feared the game could create panic among the city's public transit users," he said.What a very strange fear to have. First off, this statement seems to indicate that a) many public transit users play Counter-Strike and b) they would be unduly panicked if they happened across a realistic map of the metro station. Now, I understand the half-baked rationale behind this fear, one that quickly hardens into a "first-person-shooter + map of real life area = TERROR" flavorless paté of Safety Above All Else. I really do. All it takes is one shooter in the Metro at any point in time after the release of this map into the wild to make STM forever rue the day it failed to halt this effort in its tracks. Preemptive action must be taken to ensure that this day never comes (even if it was never going to arrive anyway).
To show it means business, STM has threatened Liatis with a $50,000 fine (plus court costs) if the map is released. And to show it really means business, it has also played the always-available-but-rarely-required IP card.
Liatis said he received a letter from the Société de transport de Montreal saying its doesn't want its "copyrighted metro network" to appear the game and that it will consider legal action against him if the map, which is still in development for Counter-strike: Global Offensive, is released.Good old copyright. When regular fines just aren't enough of a deterrent, there's always the vague threat of copyright infringement to shut down activity you don't approve of. True, there are a lot of design elements within the station (and its Counterstrike counterpart) that would fall under this protection. But it seems like STM's first concern is with "panic" and it's only wielding the Copyright Stick as backup in case it has trouble proving a banal subway map will result in "panicked" Metro riders. It's a remarkably efficient way to shut down something that is feared irrationally without having to entertain logical arguments to the contrary.
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Filed Under: copyright, counter strike, metro station, montreal
Companies: stm
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And I don't play Counterstrike or any 1st-person-shooter.
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Indeed there is....
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Speaking of popcorn and front row seats... Don't forget to yell "fire" in a movie theater.
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All Diego has to do is make it public that we has stopped development because of these threats. Post it to a few gaming forums and presto, instant crowd-sourcing.
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The stupidity of bureaucrats now days is beyond comprehension!
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There's no aimbots or wallhacks in real life.
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nah, too much work!
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http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/17000-linux-powered-rifle-brings-auto-aim-to-the-real-w orld/
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Re: err, the Feds think differently
Sys admins, other I.T. staff build a half-life mod of their bldg., extremely detailed. The objective was to kill all upper mgt. and various other ppl they were not fond of. They did this on their workstations. It was found.
The Feds grilled them, eventually let them go. They were all fired.
The military make scale representations of targets, and train in them, why not CS? They even recruit through a free FPS.
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Re: Re: err, the Feds think differently
Private property.
A definite no-no.
The transit systems of almost all cities are municipal (ie: Public) property.
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Re: Re: Re: err, the Feds think differently
A definite no-no.
Playing the game on the employer's computers, no-no. What is wrong with making a digital model of private property?
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Legal basis?
First, what's their legal basis for the threatened fine? They can't just arbitrarily ding random people for thousands of dollars; there'd need to be some law they alleged he violated.
And second, the copyright claim should fall swiftly to an argument pointing out that use of copyrighted architectural features in a game level, rather than a real-world building, is clearly transformative, and furthermore that such a use does not compete with the architect in his market.
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Re: Legal basis?
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Re: Legal basis?
The logo that may be trademark. The map of the system that may be copyright protected.
Tough as most of this may pass for fair use. And remember this is under Canadian law. So with the new law that was passed, I doubt this law suit would succeed.
As for the 50,000 fine, I think something is lost in translation. That may be the maximum, but I don't think it would work.
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Re: Legal basis?
Yeah, they're in Canada, not the US!
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Maybe they'll sue me for everything I'm not worth rofl.
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One of your descendants could - against all good parenting - grow up to become a notorious terrorist.
What preemptive measure should we take to prevent that?
Sincerely,
the Very Cautious Citizenry.
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Re: Prevention measures
No kids = no terrorists.
In case there are already children, please send those to the neuterisation to avoid unwanted terrorism in other places.
This must be unfortunately done to avoid further spread of terrorism.
And in case this message will be ignored, please let it be known that I have the full genetic profile and thus the copyright to all human bodies and can sue therefore at any time.
Sincerely,
Person-Next-Door
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Did they threaten Google?
Tourist brochures, city maps, transportation websites, Oh Noes!
/s
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Idiocy reigns
Secondly, when I was younger and had more time, I had desire to build a DOOM map of the downtown +15 in Calgary and the malls that are linked to it. That would've been cool (I still think it would be cool) there's just something about playing a game in something that could be like real life.
After all, people play lasertag and paintball for that very reason. Playing it digitally is alot less painful and sweaty. :)
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Re: Idiocy reigns
Oddly enough, it's when I hear about people being prosecuted for doing perfectly normal things that I get the urge to be violent in real life.
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Re: Re: Idiocy reigns
While at first it was just harmless fun, eventually they got really dark about it, talking about how much fun it would be to do it in real life and what teachers and fellow students they would kill or spare.
So, while I still think it should be legal, I understand the reactions and fear as clearly a couple of my classmates couldn't separate fantasy from reality very well.
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Re: Re: Re: Idiocy reigns
As such, your empathy directed at this idiotic reaction by public officials reflects poorly on you.
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Re: Idiocy reigns
not the way I play
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It's a public space, that can be visited by ANYONE at ANY TIME. I certainly don't feel any safer that this map isn't out there and I certainly won't give much of a damn if it does.
The metros have MAPS in them.
Next you'll be telling me that Deus Ex Human Revolution will be losing it's 'Montreal' level due to copyright infringement and worries that terrorists will take over the stadium...
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Still not as bad as the Newcastle Tramway Authority
http://i.imgur.com/uBX8ktx.jpg
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When government agencies can financially "terrorize" creative people over empty moral panics, you've got bigger problems than people playing FPS games set in realistic locations.
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Oy-vey!
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Feeling a little dead inside?
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Re: Feeling a little dead inside?
Wear helmets with studs, protect your brain at all cost!
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That being said, they're a company that blames their users for their employee's incompetence, hires racists and xenophobes to work with the public (and admit it), fail to follow their own rules (you can't film in the metro if your camera is on a tripot - unless you work for the STM, media included)...
They even filmed part of a zombie movie last year (I can't find it now) in a different station close to that one, they put up signs saying that if you took X hallway you automatically agreed to be in the zombie movie.
They're just mad they're not making any profit, end of story. You can't pay the dude mopping the floor 25$/h if you don't make a few extra bucks on the side. They're just hypocrites.
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STM has no case.
Section 32.2 (1)(b)(i)
A transit station is an architectural work. The game would count as a cinematographic work, and thus is very specifically exempted by the law
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Next stop, Ashland High.
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At some level we except the risks of everyday life and get on with it. As a society we need to accept each others individual presence/existence. Cant we all just get along? When was the last time your heard that? What are we but just a bunch of adolescents fighting in the sandbox?
Not quite off topic: The reason (good) laws are written such that only the physical act of hurting, damaging, killing, stealing, etc is because there is no possible way to distinguish absolutely from what people say or talk about. What people say and do are (almost) entirely unrelated. Most everyone (well, at least me) does not even understand themselves let alone their relation to society or the world. Just trying to explain it is so hard that the concept of “preemptive action” just makes my mind twist up.
Preemptive action is not fair, reasonable nor polite (and used in this way likely intrudes upon individual rights). It is a war mentality that contradicts the very existence of even society itself. This is NOT war and if it was who is the opposition? What was harmed physically?
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semi related topic
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Really?
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