Get Ready For DRM On Physical Goods
from the would-a-hammer-and-nails-represent-circumvention dept
Simon Phipps recently posted a short film showing the nature of DRM when applied to a chair, effectively demonstrating how ridiculous it is to build a product that is designed to prevent usage, creating artificial scarcity where none need exist:Of course, most people would recognize that this automatically decreases the value to the buyer. They can't see the actual plan? They can't have it on their computer? Then why would they buy it in the first place? You don't convince people to pay by taking away a key part of the value. And yet that seems to be the entire goal of Fabulonia.
As with music, software, movies and more, these all are cases of imposing artificial scarcity where it makes no sense to do so. It's not just "digital vandalism," it's out and out economic vandalism, because you are purposely destroying a resource that can be used for economic growth. It's really tragic that people still think this is a concept that makes any sense at all.
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Filed Under: 3d printing, artificial scarcity, chairs, copyright, drm, physical goods
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What really needs to happen is this...
Simple as that.
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i and 15 generations of my descendants will croak long before any of this DRM/IP/copyrestrict nonsense is done and with
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Re:
Well, it will need to be phased out.
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Re: Re:
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Let it survive or die on it's own merits.
Mikes argument is that as it lessens the value to a purchaser of any transaction it will not succeed in a market where people have options to make more worthwhile transactions.
The problem isn't that any supplier might try it but that legislators attempt to protect them at others expense.
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We do this all of the time-- it's called public policy
Every single well-designed device limits usage to protect the user and society in general.
Yes, in many cases the companies may also slip in ways that boost their profits. Planned obsolescence is a way of life but anyone who's a designer will explain that it's a practical reality because the designers want to bring the costs down as much as possible. They need to guess a price point and design toward it.
The idea of "artificial scarcity" is really missing the huge reality that manufacturers (and artists) need to spread the development costs over all of the users. The nutcakes around here can keep dreaming that the world can be supercheap and buy just one digital copy that we'll all share, but that ignores the reality of development costs.
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Re: We do this all of the time-- it's called public policy
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Re: We do this all of the time-- it's called public policy
What do they know that the DRM-happy crowd is missing?
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Re: We do this all of the time-- it's called public policy
FINALLY! I get a chance to bitch-slap some sense (AGAIN!) into you.
We are customers. As customers, we should NEVER hear the words "development costs". We don't care about them, it is in fact impossible for us to care about them. Your $100 million movie? I value it completely differently. Your costs there are millions of dollars and years of work. Me? The person you're trying to sell to? It's worth a couple hours of my time, tops. In fact, with there being so much entertainment vying for my personal attention, perhaps I should be charging YOU to take up two hours of my valuable time.
Anyway, you should stop trying to sell the movie as a quantifiable unit. Doesn't work that way anymore. The Internet has is essentially the Star Trek replicator for digital data. If you've ever watched Star Trek, you may have noticed that from TNG on, the Federation doesn't have a money based economy (the less said about gold-plated latinum the better!). That's because with a device capable of producing infinite goods at zero cost, the cost to produce those goods falls to zero. With the replicator able to replicate everything (except for when the almighty plot says no), the concept of a financial economy fell apart.
Since the Internet can copy data at practically zero cost (or as close to it as makes no difference), you should NOT be concentrating on selling infinite copies. Instead, offer access to your database as a whole for a price. That's one thing you can do. I've paid multiple times for cyberlockers. Do that. Or get a real Netflix-esque service up and running, with every title in existence for the vast majority of people who will not want to buy dozens of hard drives for local file storage.
Or you can go for option two. You can continue to rant and rave, while the rest of the world progresses and the concept of selling something that is now infinite falls apart.
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Re: Re: We do this all of the time-- it's called public policy
"You wouldn't replicate a car, would you?"
Just watch me!
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Re: Re: Re: We do this all of the time-- it's called public policy
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@ Nutcake "Rikuo": I'm going to copy your words over and over!
>>> "We are customers. As customers, we should NEVER hear the words "development costs". We don't care about them, it is in fact impossible for us to care about them. Your $100 million movie? I value it completely differently. Your costs there are millions of dollars and years of work. Me? The person you're trying to sell to? It's worth a couple hours of my time, tops. In fact, with there being so much entertainment vying for my personal attention, perhaps I should be charging YOU to take up two hours of my valuable time."
The most blatant demand yet seen from a brat who believes he's entitled to make demands and that others must obey. Little Rikuo just throws a tantrum: "I WANT! I WANT! I DON'T CARE WHAT IT COSTS YOU! GIMME! GIMME! NOW! NOW! YOU'VE GOT TO REWARD ME FOR MY VALUABLE TIME!"
>>> "Anyway, you should stop trying to sell the movie as a quantifiable unit. Doesn't work that way anymore. The Internet has is essentially the Star Trek replicator for digital data. If you've ever watched Star Trek, you may have noticed that from TNG on, the Federation doesn't have a money based economy (the less said about gold-plated latinum the better!). That's because with a device capable of producing infinite goods at zero cost, the cost to produce those goods falls to zero. With the replicator able to replicate everything (except for when the almighty plot says no), the concept of a financial economy fell apart."
This is what I call proof-from-fiction. You take a totally fabricated story and use it to prove whatever you want. Preachers still do this often (not coincidentally making demands on a supposed infinite resource). I think these kids truly believe that's just around the corner. They must live in a mental fantasy where is no want or need, one only has speak demands and robot slaves whir into action.
Just amazing ain't it, folks? Rikuo doesn't even have the sense to see that he's saying he rejects reality when it doesn't please him.
Hey, Big Media: don't give an inch to clowns like Rikuo! HANG 'EM whenever you find them stealing! Enough arrogant little brats like that can destroy civilization!
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Re: @ moron_who_knows_nothing
We tend to call these people revolutionaries.
French Revolution was made up of NOTHING but "arrogant little brats" who wished to destroy their civilization because it wasn't helpful to the "little brats" at all.
I suppose that's what you're advocating, hmm? *Grin*
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Re: @ Nutcake "Rikuo": I'm going to copy your words over and over!
The irony of this statement is staggering. Who's entitled? What about the business who believes that suing a mother of four $250,000 for sharing 24 songs? Or that believes they can decide how you can use things you've legally purchased? That decides they aren't going to sell you their product but "lease" it to you at the same price? That believes they should get paid for every use of their product, no matter the context?
The copyright maximalists are making demands that we do what they say with their product when they have no right to do so. If someone sold me a knife and told me that I'm only allowed to use it to cut cheese and they would sue me $10,000 dollars if I used it to cut meat, then offered to sell me another knife that cut meat, and that I agree to those terms because I bought the knife, who in their right mind would listen? That's not how things work.
Yet that's exactly how these entitled brats at the MAFIAA think. If I buy a painting, and decide to draw beards on all the people, the artist can rant and rave about how I'm disrespecting their work but I don't give a crap because I bought it. If you don't want your stuff to be seen, ripped apart, and modified, don't sell it.
Nobody is going to miss this entitled artist/producer generation that believes they get to hold all the cards. Somebody is going to fill the vacuum and do a better job because they'll be using the money you waste on "anti-piracy" and lawyers to improve their product and get more sales. There's always an opportunity cost. The "war on piracy" is costing you customers. You can blame the customers all you want but the only real culprit is yourself.
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Re: We do this all of the time-- it's called public policy
It is artificial scarcity because the development costs are heavily self-imposed. License costs, $3,675 dollar 3d graphics programs which are only slightly superior to freeware (3d Studio vs. Blender), and publisher limitations all dramatically inflate the cost to create content. Many of these things exist due to legacy industry and backroom deals, not because they have that much inherent value.
As technology improves, and costs to create (as well as barriers to entry) are reduced, the logical thing is for the prices to drop as well. If you expect people to spend $15 for a CD they can burn at home for a cent (or more likely do without the CD completely), which is the same as before that technology existed, you're delusional.
It would be like someone trying to sell a Trio smartphone for $300. It's obsolete technology and no one is going to pay the old price. Gone are the days of idiot consumers who only have the word of advertisements provided by a select few corporations to go on. If consumers aren't willing to pay what you want them to pay, stop making your stuff. Someone else, probably better than you, will fill the void at the price people are willing to pay, and nobody will miss you.
That's reality. Who's really ignoring it?
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Re: Re: We do this all of the time-- it's called public policy
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Re: We do this all of the time-- it's called public policy
What a moron. Do you have any understanding of anything?
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Re: Re: We do this all of the time-- it's called public policy
Apply DRM to a gun and you get a gun that someone else decides when, if, and how it should be fired.
Makes sense! No more gun-related accidents! No more unsanctioned gun violence! How is that not perfect?
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Re: Re: Re: We do this all of the time-- it's called public policy
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Take you up on one point - design to price point (development costs)
There are a number of factors that relate to price:-
1). Development costs (need to amortize over all units initially counted)
2). Total profit desired (again amortized over all units initially counted)
3). Total number of units in initial run (over which profit and costs will be amortized)
These 3 items determine your initial price. But there is also another item which comes into play.
4). Perceived value by customers, if price is too high, can't sell and if price is too low also can't sell.
The juggling of the numbers for 3) and 4) above ultimately determine if you will make a profit. If you handle this well, any items after the initial numbers will only have input costs and hence should give you a higher profit return.
So we see, companies that have a price point that is very high and low unit sales and high profit margin per unit. We see companies with low price point and high unit sales and low profit margin per unit. In both cases, they make their desired profit, but quite often, the latter makes even more profit.
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Re: We do this all of the time-- it's called public policy
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Re: We do this all of the time-- it's called public policy
Key concept - gun 'safety catch' = safety feature (like seat belts).
Neither is true of DRM. Similarly, a gun safety catch doesn't require you to have permission from the gun designer/seller/police/any of their great-grandchildren to unlock, let alone fire the gun. Nor to sell it.
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The only purpose I can think of for DRM is to set up lawsuits via the anti-circumvention clause in the DMCA. That way someone with a legitimate copyright use can be sued due to breaking the ineffective DRM.
OK, the other purpose is so that developers/publishers can put in a check box next to the "anti-piracy" spreadsheet that makes CEOs feel like they're solving the problem. It saddens me that we have such powerful analytical tools available yet we've forgotten how to use the analysis. If only they'd add a "Customers lost due to our business practices" column next to the "Sales lost due to piracy" column we might actually get somewhere.
Unfortunately it's much easier to be a person who places blame on others rather than be a person who takes responsibility for themselves.
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My HP printer won't let me print a dollar bill
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Re: My HP printer won't let me print a dollar bill
We are already sitting under a thin blanket of big brother, I'd hate to see what happens when all the corporations get in on it.
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Re: My HP printer won't let me print a dollar bill
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So what they're selling...
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Re: So what they're selling...
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and while you're on that, please try to impose DRM on food recipes, please do...
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Don't download
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ROTFLMAO
They failed on general computing, and now they try to enforce. DRM. On. Self-replicating. Devices. It's like trying to stop humans from reproducing.
What are they gonna do, closed ecosystems where you can only buy plans for digitally-signed prints? What's the point, it's not 3D printers if they can't print what you design! "Only what you design" kills collaboration. Okay, then there will be limits on collaboration. Which limits? Number of seats that can collaborate? How would it be calculated? Like changing the region of a DVD? How to plug the fact that general-purpose computers will be used to design the prints, sell a special-purpose computer? It had better be orders of magnitude better and cheaper than hobbyist gear, if it's crippled enough to have a meaningful copy-protection mechanism.
DRM is too expensive to work, and technically impossible to enforce.
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Bad analogy
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Re: Bad analogy
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Moron Mike mixing up materials and methods.
Now, assuming that's nailed down -- reality, that is -- a PLAN is still an intellectual property and could be copyrighted while the actual making isn't. The obvious reason such plans are not yet copyrighted is because irrelevant since you need an expensive gadget and expensive materials (perhaps custom for a brand of 3D printer) to do anything with the plan.
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Re: @ moron_who_knows_nothing
Lemme break it down for you in ways you MIGHT be able to understand.
The 3DS has only been out for 2 years now, and you don't need 3-D glasses to view it.
The first 3-D effects of less than 25 years ago required the use of blue and red glasses to get the effect.
The NES came out in the 1980s, by 1990, the SNES and Genesis both had enough graphic power to rival arcades, which, until that point, were superior in every manor to all forms of gaming.
The Dish Hopper just came out, it allows you to record any program you wish to watch and skip the commercials.
Go back just 13 years and you had to use a VCR or a DVD player to record a program, and often times, you couldn't do it very well because of the flashing clock.
Gaming on the phone? Remember when the most you could do was play Reversi or Snake?
Now? Hey, Angry Birds! Final Fantasy 1!
Remember this, in less than 10 years the Blackberry went from over 200 dollars and only used by Sprint or AT&T to less than 30 and is now being used by Tracfone while other smart phones are being used by Straight Talk.
You can get a decent computer these days for less than 200 bucks.
Try back in the 1990s, you wanted even a half-decent computer? It ran over 600 dollars and even phones today out-perform those computers by leaps and bounds.
A gigabyte, back in the 90s, was unheard of for storage size.
Now-a-days we have TERABYTE hard-drives.
Do you not understand yet?
What isn't possible now WILL be possible soon.
Remember this line, it applies to how things are going.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
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Re: Re: @ moron_who_knows_nothing
Hilarious!
I'll bet blues clock is still flashing.
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Re: Moron Mike mixing up materials and methods.
Dismissing a trend based on the modern setups is a huge mistake. Look at the early pc's, very limited in capabilites and priced out of reach to some. Now we have smartphones, tablets, wifi and still expanding.
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Re: Moron Mike mixing up materials and methods.
Sure, 3D printing is expensive now. Computers, the internet, cell phones, airplanes, cars...all these things have been expensive and unavailable to most consumers in the past. Ten years from now? Who's to say we won't be downloading shoe plans from Nike that are custom sized to our feet with whatever pattern we want and printing it out? Instead of buying from shopping malls you just buy raw materials.
Yet another example of the difference between someone who embraces new technology and someone who fears it. This comment explains a lot about you and how out of touch with technology you are. Those who adapt survive. Those who cling to the old ways don't. It's only a matter of time.
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Re: Moron Mike mixing up materials and methods.
I think you might be surprised to understand that the emphasis in research (that is basically finalised) in new material science goes into areas such as ceramics, glasses, metals including biometals (metallomics), and the most fascinating and positive type of material carbon nano-tubes (c-60).
Oh and I haven't even touched on the fascinating ability of Graphene.
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Re: Moron Mike mixing up materials and methods.
Does this look like a plastic toy to you?
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/download-this-gun-3d-printed-semi-automatic-fires -over-600-rounds/
Clown...
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Re: Moron Mike mixing up materials and methods.
This stuff exists and the demand is being drummed up through the plastic printers. I don't know whether it will make the leap to the consumer market, but the potential is there.
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Re: Re: Moron Mike mixing up materials and methods.
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If all chairs cost $20 or more and I cannot get one without DRM, I won't buy chairs. But obviously the market is failing because of piracy.
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