Aaron Swartz's Partner Accuses DOJ Of Lying, Seizing Evidence Without A Warrant & Withholding Exculpatory Evidence

from the good-prosecutorial-discretion? dept

Fri, Mar 8th 2013 11:18am — Mike Masnick

Yesterday we wrote about Attorney General Eric Holder's ridiculous claims defending the prosecution of Aaron Swartz. We noted two key things that were ridiculous. First, Holder insisted that Swartz was only facing a few months in jail (he implied 5 months, tops) and scolded the media for claiming it was 35 years. As we noted it was the US Attorneys' own press release that trumpeted the 35 years. More importantly, the few months in prison was only if he agreed to plead guilty. If he continued to profess his innocence (something you would do if you believed you were innocent), the US Attorneys claimed they were going to push for seven years. The other ridiculous point that Holder made was that it was "good prosecutorial discretion" to offer just a few months in the plea bargain, because that somehow showed them recognizing the "context" of the crime.

In response, Swartz's girlfriend, Taren Stinebrickner-Kauffman has put out a very strong statement, slamming Holder's claims. Not only does she highlight the threat of seven years in prison, but she goes much further, to allege clear prosecutorial misconduct by the US Attorney's office, including seizing and holding evidence without a warrant, lying to the judge and then withholding exculpatory evidence from Swartz's lawyers. These are three really serious charges that I haven't seen much discussion about previously:

"Eric Holder and the Department of Justice are clearly trying to mislead the Senate and the public. Holder claims that Aaron was only facing months in prison while Heymann and Ortiz were actively pursuing a penalty of 7 years if the case went to trial. If you believe you're innocent, you should not be coerced into accepting a plea bargain that marks you as a felon for life, just because prosecutors want to boast about taking a scalp. The discrepancy between the plea deal and the amount of prison time prosecutors said they would pursue at trial violates the DOJ's own guidelines in this regard. Holder is trying to engage in revisionist history at the same time he claims that the strict sentences pursued by prosecutors were a 'good use of prosecutorial discretion.'

What's worse, this isn't just about sentencing. Steve Heymann engaged in serious prosecutorial misconduct on multiple occasions. Public documents show that he instructed the Secret Service to seize and hold evidence without a warrant, violating the Fourth Amendment. He then lied to the judge about that fact in written briefs. And he withheld exculpatory evidence from Aaron's lawyers for over a year, despite both a legal and ethical obligation to turn it over. If this constitutes appropriate behavior from the perspective of the Department of Justice, then we live in a police state.

The Department of Justice is not interested in admitting their errors, even when an out of control US Attorney's office has cost this country one of our best and brightest. The DOJ is only interested in covering their asses."

It's too bad that Holder wasn't quizzed about those specific points as well. The fact that he was able to mischaracterize the actions by the US Attorney's office in how they went after Swartz is really unfortunate.

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Filed Under: aaron swartz, carmen ortiz, doj, eric holder, prosecutorial discretion, steve heymann, taren stinebrickner-kauffman

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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 11:29am

Public documents show that he instructed the Secret Service to seize and hold evidence without a warrant, violating the Fourth Amendment.

What are these documents? I'd like to see where the AUSA asked the Secret Service to violate the Fourth Amendment. Not all seizures require a warrant, and I doubt she's a Fourth Amendment expert, so I have serious doubts about this claim. The "public documents" should be able to clear it right up. matter.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 11:40am

Public documents show that he instructed the Secret Service to seize and hold evidence without a warrant, violating the Fourth Amendment.

Citation needed

The discrepancy between the plea deal and the amount of prison time prosecutors said they would pursue at trial violates the DOJ's own guidelines in this regard.

Citation needed

And he withheld exculpatory evidence from Aaron's lawyers for over a year, despite both a legal and ethical obligation to turn it over.

Citation needed

Blaring headlines trumpeting serious allegations should allude to at least some basis in fact- even by the abysmally low Techdirt standards.

Out of curiosity Mike, is this you "doing" journalism this time or just another irresponsible, fact-free diatribe?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 11:46am

Re:
The only low standards I see are yours.
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out_of_the_blue, 8 Mar 2013 @ 11:50am

Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
Disclaimer for the hard-of-understanding: Holder is an only too typical gov't thug with way too much power and no obvious scruples about using it.

BUT the precipating action seems due to an ingrained attitude rich young kids have that they can escape consequences, at most call their lawyer to bail 'em out. -- Includes ignorance of the actualities of how poor people are oppressed EVERY DAY by attack dogs with badges, especially what young black men experience just by going out on the street: illegal causeless stops, searches, and seizures, direct to jail without seeing a judge or having an attorney. But of course 1% Ivy League Mike doesn't concern himself with ordinary people, only with privileged snots who think they should "liberate" data.

Anyway, try to truly grasp that the gov't is completely insane and power mad. And so are The Rich.

Therefore, PICK YOUR BATTLES. -- And be on the right side of morality, not present yourselves as "pirates". I bet Aaron Swartz wished he'd fought the battle on moral grounds instead of tossing himself into the sausage grinder that is "Justice" by taking actions that can easily be construed as criminal...
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 11:51am

Re:
I'm quite sure that even when/if 100% completely irrefutable black and white evidence shows all of the above to be true, you would still be defending the DOJ and US Attorney. Either that or be completely silent and looking for the next poor schmoe to persecute.
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Gwiz (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 11:52am

Re:
Blaring headlines trumpeting serious allegations should allude to at least some basis in fact-....

Umm. Mike is repeating what someone else stated. The only fact that would need to be checked is if the person actually said it or not. All of you "citations needed" should be directed at the person who originally said them.

I will say that a link or source for Taren's statement should have been included in the article though.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 11:53am

Re:
"Out of curiosity Mike, is this you "doing" journalism this time or just another irresponsible, fact-free diatribe?

Uhh.... pretty sure he's saying the girlfriend put out that statement as it's in a quoted block. Try reading it again maybe?

There is no reason not to think this statement of allegations isn't newsworthy. At the very least it brings up the argument to not take Holder for his word and that more investigation needs to take place....

As far as any citations, these are allegations at this point made in a statement by someone who is in position to know something. Don't take them as fact, but they are very serious allegations nonetheless...
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yaga (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 11:54am

Re:
Mike is just reporting on what another person said. He doesn't have to show the evidence that backs those statements. If you want the evidence write to Ms. Stinebrickner-Kauffman.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 11:55am

Re:
Out of curiosity Mike, is this you "doing" journalism this time or just another irresponsible, fact-free diatribe?

FUD-packers don't need evidence. Just accusations.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 11:57am

Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
Pretty sure Mike and company have covered plenty of stories of police abuse. This is just a major news event in a very public technical figure. The case even has Congress involved. You don't think it should be reported on? Remind me not to read any news that went through the ootb filter....

Oh wait, to you everything Mike does is inherently wrong.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:03pm

Re: Re:
I will say that a link or source for Taren's statement should have been included in the article though.

It was sent directly to me via email.
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c.meyer (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:03pm

and there it is again
Anyone know a good demon to shut someone up? I'm ready to sacrifice that puppy now:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130307/18414322247/texas-legislator-introduces-bill-that-woul d-allow-legal-papers-to-be-served-to-peoples-social-media-accounts.shtml#c112
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:05pm

Re: Re:
How about fact checking the source's allegations. That seems dependent on whether the assertions made are consistent or not with the TD narrative.
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Gwiz (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:07pm

Re: Re:
FUD-packers don't need evidence. Just accusations.

I have no idea who you mean by "FUD-packers", but if you are referring the DOJ, the MPAA or the RIAA, then yeah, I agree with you.
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Gwiz (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:08pm

Re: Re: Re:
It was sent directly to me via email.

Ahhh.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:08pm

'The fact that he was able to mischaracterize the actions by the US Attorney's office in how they went after Swartz is really unfortunate.'

rubbish! it's out and out lying! and as stated, it's being done to cover asses! if this isn't the behaviour of a Police State, it must be as close as you can get without it being so!!
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B.Manning, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:08pm

Holder, what a tool. This is what the asshole has been up to.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/06/pentagon-iraqi-torture-centres-link

http://www .guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/mar/06/james-steele-america-iraq-video
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:09pm

Re: Re:
So Mike is free to "report" on any wild allegation by any disgruntled party free of any responsibility to assess whether what they're saying contains even a grain of truth? That's kind of the issue. Anything printed that runs counter to the TD narrative gets a body cavity inspection. Anything that's consistent gets treated as Gospel.
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Internet Zen Master (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:11pm

Re: and there it is again
Well, you could ask Satan. Apparently he's got a law office in Nashville... Not sure if he takes puppy sacrifices as compensation though.
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art guerrilla (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:12pm

as fucking if...
to the cowardly anonymouse above...

it is REALLY curious how you super-parasites, er, lawyers come on here 'debunking' shit, yet are afraid to put your name to it... (you will notice, there are a number of them who are not so afraid, why you ?)
hmmm...
wonder why that is...
(it *couldn't* be 'cause they are full of shit and are blowing smoke up us non-parasite, er, lawyer asses, is it ? ? ? say it ain't so, mouse... *snicker*)

now, to the meat of the matter: the old joke about 'how can you tell if a lawyer is lying?' 'Their lips are moving.', can apply even moreso to 'our' (sic) gummint...

given just about ANY subject, no matter how trivial, i am HIGHLY suspicious of ANY statements 'my' (sic) gummint makes...
AND, when you make it a subject which is of interest to either the preservation of their own bullshit bureaucracy, or their paymasters, then there are NO LIES too blatant and outrageous they will not tell...

in short, THEY LIE to us ALL THE TIME...
apparently, you are either incredibly naive, or a shill...
gosh, i wonder which it is...
gosh...

art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:12pm

Re:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Where exactly is the exceptions to 'shall not be violated' that permit seizure of documents without a warrant?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:15pm

Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
i'm trying to think what that quote by Cardinal Richelieu was...
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Gwiz (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:22pm

Re: Re: Re:
Anything that's consistent gets treated as Gospel.

I won't speak for anyone else, but I am treating this for what it is: a statement from someone who is close to the situation.

If you wish to expend your energy to debunk the statement, go for it. Let us know what you come up with, k?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:25pm

Re: Re:
You ever watch "Cops"? Ever see a the cop frisk a subject or find contraband in the car? Ever see them produce a warrant? Warrants are situational.
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RD, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:25pm

Re: Re: Re:
"So Mike is free to "report" on any wild allegation by any disgruntled party free of any responsibility to assess whether what they're saying contains even a grain of truth? That's kind of the issue. Anything printed that runs counter to the TD narrative gets a body cavity inspection. Anything that's consistent gets treated as Gospel."

Then start your own fucking OPINION BLOG (which is what TD is, its not a "journalist" site) and STFU.

Oh I get it. You can point out any fallacy or inadequacy you perceive and expect a response or some kind of change to occur, but when everyone else here does the same thing about any of the topics discussed with a similar call to action, then it's a hand-wave-dismissal and an "it's the LAW!" appeal to authority and everyone should just go along like sheep.
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John Fenderson (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:30pm

Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
I bet Aaron Swartz wished he'd fought the battle on moral grounds

Swartz clearly believed that he was fighting the battle on moral grounds. So what's your point?
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silverscarcat (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:33pm

Re: Re: Re:
Frisking a suspect is for the cop's own protection. Searching a car can be illegal unless the contraband is in plain sight or the suspect gives permission. If the suspect says no, you can't search my car, then they need a warrant unless they can see something like weed out in the open.
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Aliasundercover, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:37pm

Good Morning
>If this constitutes appropriate behaviour from the perspective of the Department of Justice, then we live in a police state.

You can see for yourself in any airport.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:38pm

Re: Re:
It says that we are secure from unreasonable searches and seizures. Some searches and seizures are reasonable without a warrant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Exceptions_to_the_wa rrant_requirement
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:39pm

Re: Re: Re:
So Mike is free to "report" on any wild allegation by any disgruntled party free of any responsibility to assess whether what they're saying contains even a grain of truth? That's kind of the issue. Anything printed that runs counter to the TD narrative gets a body cavity inspection. Anything that's consistent gets treated as Gospel.

Exactly. It's left to the reader to ponder when he's doing journalism and when he's not. Clearly here he is not, since no actual journalist would have printed this story.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:40pm

Re: Re: Re:
No, I'm referring to the world's biggest FUD-packer, Mike Masnick. Thought that was clear.
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jenmac1000, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:42pm

re anonymous coward
I rather doubt this young man would have killed himself over five months in jail.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Journalists not printing stories that they should print is also a sign of a bad (or 'non') journalist. and Mike doesn't claim to be a journalist though that doesn't mean he does no journalism at all.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:46pm

How can you tell if Holder is lying?
Answer: Whenever he speaks
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Smoke a joint in your car and drive down the road 20 miles over the speed limit and see what happens to the bag of weed under your seat
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:51pm

Gee there is actually a rule in DoJ about not withholding evidence.
See they did it enough and got sued for hiding evidence to put someone in jail when they had the evidence to raise serious questions about their claims.

The top lawyers representing Justice in this country, and there is a rule (rarely enforced and without any real penalties) to remind them to turn over all the evidence and not hide things that might hurt their case.

If someone defending someone against the Government hid a report that proved they knew what they were doing was wrong there would be sanctions and all sorts of problems... work for DoJ and well that's just how the game is played.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:55pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Funny Mike "Waffles" Masnick claims to "do journalism". But sometimes he claims he doesn't. It's hard to follow when he's being a journalist and when he's not. Seems like when it suits him, he's a journalist. When it doesn't he's not. Whichever way he goes, it's a great way to avoid any accountability.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Mike doesn't do accountability. That's for sure.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:57pm

Re:
OK, what exculpatory evidence was withheld? Why was the Assistant US Attorney not sanctioned?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 12:58pm

Re: re anonymous coward
Well, he did.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
You actually expect people to understand and take your references seriously when you make no attempt to understand the author's in the article you are posting about?

The double standard article is the next one.... maybe check that one out?
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silverscarcat (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Stupid example is stupid. *Rolls eyes* If you're going 20 miles over the speed limit, you're endangering others and yourself, thus law enforcement has a right to pull you over. And since you're smoking a joint, that's obvious evidence and thus they can search your car without a warrant.

Your stupidity is astounding.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Huh?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Wait, wait... this just in from that bastion of journalism, Russia Today:

TechDirt reporter Mike Masnick says the statement demonstrates �three really serious charges that I haven't seen much discussion about previously.� Although Holder, Heymann and Ortiz have been accused or prosecutorial overreach in the past, Stinebrickner-Kauffman�s latest claims allege much more.

More laughably, the Russians characterize Masnick as a reporter, further impugning journalists worldwide.
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silverscarcat (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I suppose you have no idea that the absence of evidence does not mean the evidence of absence.

It's really quite simple.

Mike's not a journalist, but he does do journalistic reporting.

There, simple.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:16pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So what is the above?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I was responding to this uninformed pile of shit:

Searching a car can be illegal unless the contraband is in plain sight or the suspect gives permission. If the suspect says no, you can't search my car, then they need a warrant unless they can see something like weed out in the open.
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Gwiz (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Thought that was clear.

About as clear as mud.

But hey, it's Friday and I'm a bit bored, so I want in this game of making up childish words to insult people with.

You are a twiddle-smacker. Your turn.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:35pm

Re:
Curious why no link to where these comments appear.
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Gwiz (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:40pm

Re: Re:
Curious why no link to where these comments appear.

Answered below. They were emailed directly to Mike.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:41pm

Re: Re: Re:
Yes, I later noted this. Perhaps he should ask for permission to reproduce it here.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
More laughably, the Russians characterize Masnick as a reporter, further impugning journalists worldwide.

And that's the problem with Mike's silly claim that he sometimes does journalism but isn't a journalist. He wants to be taken seriously and respected as a journalist, but he doesn't want to be beholden to those pesky journalistic ethics and practices. Cake and eat it too, as it were.
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Rikuo (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Go on, quote when he said that.

You claim to be a donkey rapist. Do I have a quote? No. Neither do you. Thus, my statement is worth as much as yours.
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John Fenderson (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:54pm

Re: Re: re anonymous coward
Not really. He killed himself because he was facing much more than five months in jail.
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John Fenderson (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 1:56pm

Re: Re:
Valid questions. I'm curious, though, why you aren't equally as meticulous and critical of the DOJ's side?
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John Fenderson (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Reporters and journalists are two different things. As an example, US mainstream media still has some reporters, but has nearly no journalists.
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Nigel (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No one gives a shit what you anonymous pussies have to say.

Nigel
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:11pm

Valid questions. I'm curious, though, why you aren't equally as meticulous and critical of the DOJ's side?

You seem to have that covered. Do you really need my help?
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Jay (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:12pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
And you understand the First Amendment, how?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No one gives a shit what you anonymous pussies have to say.

Nigel

Nor foreigners, as it's none of their goddamned business anyway.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:17pm

Re: re anonymous coward
Then you don't know what he was up against.

A felony conviction doesn't just go away, you know.
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silverscarcat (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Thanks for showing how stupid you are, again.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:20pm

Re: Re: Re: re anonymous coward
Enough already. If he took the plea deal it was a few months in Club Fed and a few in a halfway house. He chose to kill himself instead. He put himself in this position and couldn't deal with the consequences.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:23pm

Re: Re: re anonymous coward
No, but in Mass. he could vote the day he walked out of the jailhouse door. He could run for office. But he couldn't own a gun.

And employment-wise, he probably would have had a hard time passing a Walmart background check, but I doubt it would hinder his employability. He was among the best computer minds of his generation.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I'm going to let this go. Last time we went at it, you were reduced to tears and I ended up feeling sorry for you.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I fail to see what the 1st Amendment has to do with on again-off again claims of "doing journalism". Are you talking about 1st Amendment protection of Masnick's right to waffle? Then maybe you have a point.
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Franssu, 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:45pm

Police state
"If this constitutes appropriate behavior from the perspective of the Department of Justice, then we live in a police state."

It's about time someone stated the obvious.
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AB, 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:52pm

Re: Re: re anonymous coward
You say that as if you knew him personally; as if you were his confidante. If this is so then you really need to go to the police and explain how he told you in person why he was planning to commit suicide. Otherwise your statement is pure supposition. The fact is that nobody knows for certain why he killed himself, however the evidence suggests it was because he believed he was facing major prosecution for something he didn't believe he was guilty of. Maybe all the evidence is wrong, but we have been given no reason to assume that. The only people - including psychologists - who claim it couldn't be because of the prosecution's actions are the prosecution and a handful of people who either don't have any grasp on human nature or are being paid. Or possibly (probably) both.
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JMT (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Explain how Mike is not accountable for what he says? It's not like he's hiding behind an AC tag like you are.
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AB, 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: re anonymous coward
You are actually willing to stand up and say that people shouldn't let their morals get in the way of doing what's best for themselves?? Wow.
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AB, 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:58pm

Re: Re: Re: re anonymous coward
And every time he looked in a mirror he would see a liar and a coward looking back at him. I take it you wouldn't have any problem doing that?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 2:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
or three random initials
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 3:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re anonymous coward
He killed himself. That's taking a moral stand? That what was best for him?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 3:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: re anonymous coward
Hanging himself and visiting a lifetime of sorrow and anguish on his loved ones is better or braver?
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JMT (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 3:26pm

Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
"BUT the precipating action seems due to an ingrained attitude rich young kids have that they can escape consequences...

But of course 1% Ivy League Mike doesn't concern himself with ordinary people, only with privileged snots who think they should "liberate" data."

Your descriptions of Aaron and Mike are hilariously inaccurate, but they also reveal your deep-seated jealously of anyone who you perceive as more financially successful than you. I suspect that's quite a lot of people.

"I bet Aaron Swartz wished he'd fought the battle on moral grounds instead of tossing himself into the sausage grinder that is "Justice" by taking actions that can easily be construed as criminal..."

Basically you think Aaron should have been a coward like you and just toed the line instead of standing up for what he firmly believed in.
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CyberKender, 8 Mar 2013 @ 3:38pm

I get he interrogation technique of applying pressure...
...to gain clues or even a confession from a criminal, but when applied like this, to an innocent individual, I keep failing to understand how what the DoJ did is really that different from when Vinnie the Fish walks into a shopkeeper's business, speaks nice about what a nice little place it is, how it would be a terrible shame if anything were to happen to it, and how, for a 'small stipend,' he can assure the shopkeeper that no such harm will come to the business.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 3:51pm

Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
Basically you think Aaron should have been a coward like you and just toed the line instead of standing up for what he firmly believed in.

How is hanging himself "standing up for what he firmly believed in"?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 3:54pm

Re: I get he interrogation technique of applying pressure...
an innocent individual

Even his pal Larry Lessig doesn't claim that. Nor do innocent individuals hide their faces to conceal their identities or run from the cops.
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placental detritus (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 3:59pm

Re: Re: Re:
To your question; yes, he is. Amendment Numero Uno kind of thing. Even fools who ask (paraphrased) "is he actually allowed he write whatever he wants?!!" are actually allowed to write whatever they want.

Seriously cool part of American history, that First one; read up on it if you have a chance.

To your assertion of 'the issue' being people who make an argument "that Mr Masnik is wrong" face a more determined rebuttal than those folks who agree with him is... sadly, a bit myopic. It is _barely_ an issue, much less 'the issue' at hand.

and kind of "well, duh!"

and kind of a more honorable way of doing what you are doing when you side-step the actual presented issue to call him out for his "unfair" bias instead of presenting a coherent argument that demonstrated that you went and fact checked and found... what?

are you a troll, Sir? Are you?

I hope that Ms. S-K's allegations cause fact checking that causes Mr Holder to have to defend himself in open court. I've been anticipating some form of 'insider' counter-narrative to surface, if for no other reason than the volume of spin control the DoJ has invested in this affair.
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Digitari, 8 Mar 2013 @ 4:05pm

Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
OOTB is a fucking freetard and ADMITS it

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111208/12500917012/riaa-doesnt-apologize-year-long-blog-cen sorship-just-stands-its-claim-that-site-broke-law.shtml
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John Fenderson (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 4:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
Now you're just being deliberately disingenuous.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 4:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re anonymous coward
Not being forced to go to jail for a non existent crime would have been best for him.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 5:00pm

Re: Re: Re:
it's called 'probable cause' simply you DO NOT need a warrant if you have 'probable cause'.. It's really not that hard to understand.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 5:02pm

Re: Re: Re:
what you cant put links in emails, or does Masnick not know how to 'check the sources' and provide a link for everyone else.

Or is it what most expect, that it simply DOES NOT EXIST..
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 5:15pm

Who's Aaron Swartz ??
who cares ?
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Prokofy Neva (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 5:27pm

You Can Seize Property from a Trespasser
Eric Holder was right to scold the media, and the copyleftist tech media starting with TechDirt and CNET have been the worst!

A press release from the DOJ describing the maximum terms for *charges* is not the same thing as a *sentence* after what we call "a trial" is heard with a judge and jury -- and adversarial defense. To keep haranguing like literalist code-is-lawyers about this concept of "35 years" merely because abstractly, yes, these are the maximum sentences under the *charges* means you don't get how the independent judiciary works. And no, Swartz wasn't "bullied" into a plea bargain, but offered such a low bargain precisely because his conduct -- as Holder explained -- was not for mercenary reasons from all indications. As Holder said, he doesn't look at the charges, he looks at the *conduct* -- the acts, not the hysterical hypotheses of you geeks looking literally at these maximum sentences. Few court cases involve maximum sentences.

As for the notion that Swartz would get 7 years if he refused to plea, there's no evidence for that, either, because again, it's what the prosecutors think they can get if they make their case -- but there are many mitigating circumstances. Holder said it was never the government's intent for him to serve 3-5 months. As for the notion that having a felony on his record would ruin his life, he should have thought of that each time he committed such giant hacks serving as a "propaganda of the deed" -- and he committed at least three of them. With all his friends like Lessig, there's no indication he would have ever been lacking in jobs or positions. To be sure, he was banned from Harvard after this big hack, and it would be interesting to know what their thinking was, if what his friends keep ranting is true, that he "had authorized access" and it was "all forgiven and JSTOR didn't press charges". So why was he banned? That's a question to ask about his conduct and intent, not just their possible "oppression" -- which seems less likely.

As for Taren Stinebrickner-Kauffman's claims that Heymann "lied," while she's understandably distraught and entitled to her grief and rage, she's not entitled to her facts. The case files published on the Internet let her know that his lawyers tried that gambit of claiming that the evidence was seized without a warrant. But citing Sanchez, the precedent case about such issues *when a person is trespassing*, then the government *can* seize the property. It was used to commit the offense, after all -- the laptop was hidden under a box in a wiring closet and logged directly into the LAN to use the system not as intended, after repeated circumvention efforts were caught and Swartz was knocked off the network. The lawyer doesn't seem to have argued successfully otherwise when Sanchez was invoked.

As for witholding exculpatory evidence, until we hear what that is, we can't make a judgement about it, and given how Swartz's girlfriend misrepresented Heymann "lying" about the "failure to get a warrant" when the feds had the right to impound property from a person committing a trespass, it's hard to accept it on good faith.

The DOJ isn't "admitting" errors because it hasn't made them. As Holder said to Coryn, in the Ted Stevens case, he found prosecutorial misconduct and overreach and he called it. If it were present in the Swartz case, he would call it, too. It wasn't. He didn't. Watch the whole video and not just the tendentious coverage of it in Huffpo and Slate:

http://nation.foxnews.com/aaron-swartz/2013/03/06/eric-holder-never-intention-aaron-swartz -go-prison-more-3-or-4-months

http://3dblogger.typepad.com/wired_state/2013/03/eric-holder-says-a aron-swartzs-prosecutors-did-their-job-properly.html
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AB, 8 Mar 2013 @ 5:27pm

or do innocent individuals hide their faces to conceal their identities or run from the cops.
Are you serious!? You're either a hypocrite or you've lived an incredibly sheltered life.
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Prokofy Neva (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 5:33pm

Re:
The rules are different for trespassers. Read the court documents.
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AB, 8 Mar 2013 @ 5:38pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re anonymous coward
This may surprise you, but their are actually a lot of people who are prepared to die defending their beliefs. Without those people we would not have the freedoms we currently enjoy. Also, people who suffer from depression quite often believe that killing themselves will relieve their loved ones of what they themselves perceive to be a burden. I didn't know the man, so I don't claim to know what he was thinking. I am only pointing out that he there is significant reason to believe his decision to commit suicide was triggered by the treatment he received from the DOJ.
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Prokofy Neva (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 5:39pm

Re: Re: Re:
So what? Given how much you've written on this case, you should read the court documents which establish that the 4th amendment wasn't violated and the lawyer didn't make the case. He claimed he was about to when Swartz committed suicide, but that was just a spin.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 5:42pm

Re: Who's Aaron Swartz ??
Someone more significant than a solar panel engineer with no sense of English grammar, darryl!
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 5:48pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re anonymous coward
This may surprise you, but their are actually a lot of people who are prepared to die defending their beliefs.

If that was true in this case, don't you think he would have defended his beliefs in court before taking his own life?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 5:51pm

Re: or do innocent individuals hide their faces to conceal their identities or run from the cops.
What do you think his purpose was in hiding his face behind his bicycle helmet as he entered the server closet?

Why do you think he pedaled his bike away and then jumped and ran when hailed and pursued by the cop?

I mean, we are talking about a fellow of the Harvard Center For Ethics, right?
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Prokofy Neva (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 6:01pm

Re: You Can Seize Property from a Trespasser
Links to court documents:

http://web.mit.edu/bitbucket/Swartz,%20Aaron%20Indictment.pdf
http://tech.mit.edu/V13 2/N46/swartz/swartz-suppress2.pdf
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 7:52pm

Re: You Can Seize Property from a Trespasser
You used fox news as a source. Your argument is deemed invalid.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 8:30pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I don't know what world you shills or whatever live in
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 8:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Why do you suppose it was sent to him and not just some random person.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Mar 2013 @ 8:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yes, that's right, foreigners don't give a shit about what you have to say either. What's your point?
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 8 Mar 2013 @ 10:39pm

Re: Re:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jencks_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_disclosure
http://www .justice.gov/dag/discovery-guidance.html
http://www.fjc.gov/public/pdf.nsf/lookup/BradyMat.pdf/$fil e/BradyMat.pdf
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/convicted-defendants-left-uninformed-of-fo rensic-flaws-found-by-justice-dept/2012/04/16/gIQAWTcgMT_story.html
http://www.callawyer.com/clstor y.cfm?pubdt=NaN&eid=903325&evid=1
http://www.emptywheel.net/2012/03/15/a-primer-on-why-schu elke-report-of-doj-misconduct-is-important/

How can we trust them to hold themselves to the law when they have to be reminded to not play fast and loose with the rules?
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techflaws (profile), 9 Mar 2013 @ 2:56am

Re: Re: Re:
So Mike is free to "report" on any wild allegation by any disgruntled party free of any responsibility to assess whether what they're saying contains even a grain of truth

Works for you and your ilk, doesn't it? Double standards much?
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techflaws (profile), 9 Mar 2013 @ 2:57am

Re: Re:
FUD-packers don't need evidence. Just accusations.

Works for the industry so why not have the knife cut both ways?
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horse with no name, 9 Mar 2013 @ 3:17am

even first year law students know the difference between the potential prison term and reality. What Aaron faced in theory was a long, long time in prison. However, in reality, he faced a very short period of time, and prosecutors seemed very much willing to get him a very short sentence in a plea bargain that could have put all of this behind him.

It would be absolutely remarkable that Aaron didn't get basic legal advice on this. It's equally remarkable that everyone around here seems to be ignoring that basic concept.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 3:21am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You really are astoundingly stupid.

Do you like making a fool of yourself on a public forum?
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Tabrez, 9 Mar 2013 @ 4:43am

Aron case
I am in doubt that such a perfect/nearest to perfect democracy can cause such injustice to a brilliant man. what has gone wrong is puzzling me. DOJ must quickly find peace of mind for lovers of Swartz the genious...
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 4:58am

Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
the point is he did not fight any battle, did not stand up for any 'right' or 'cause', he killed himself instead.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 4:59am

Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
he was a coward, he knew he was guilty, and even though he (should) of known he was NOT going to spend a long time in prison, he took the coward's way out, did not stand up for his 'cause'. But RAN AWAY from life itself.

Now there's a back bone for you.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:02am

Re: Re: Who's Aaron Swartz ??
obviously Darryl has got your attention :) do you have a 'thing' for him ? bit of a bromance going on here..
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:08am

Sadly, Aaron decided to be judge, jury and executioner, he found himself sufficiently guilty to warrant a death sentence.

Instead of standing up for his beliefs and rights, and rather than being a Cause c�l�bre
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:11am

Re:
The Techdirtbags live in a perpetual state of denial surrounding the many inconvenient truths disrupting their narrative. This is another on a long list.
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jeremy7600, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:16am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
Who are you to talk about backbone?

You don't have one. Its clear from the way you don't put your name on anything, you coward.

That irony is lost on NO ONE.

Whats that saying about people who live in glass houses?

At least he made a statement.. All you do is flail at things hoping someone will take the bait.

Fuck you.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:21am

Re: Re: or do innocent individuals hide their faces to conceal their identities or run from the cops.
the picture you paint. wait, i know what it is!

Its all so one sided.

Wheres the other side to defend himself?

He's dead.

Asshole.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:28am

Re: Re: Re:
gospel? It says accusation in bold letters at the top of the page. You remember the word accusation right? It's the word we used to describe the silly 6 strikes things to show why they shouldn't carry the weight that people are attracted to them? Gospel my ass.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:39am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Two things:

Why would permission be necessary to reproduce an e-mail sent to him?

Why do you assume this was published without her knowledge?
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I guess you must have missed the profile link. A public list of past comments is hardly hiding.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:47am

Re: Re: re anonymous coward
What a despicable sack of shit you are, speaking for the mind of a fucking dead man. Class act here.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:52am

Re:
Cop out.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:54am

Re: Re: or do innocent individuals hide their faces to conceal their identities or run from the cops.
Your entire argument rests on the assumption that an innocent person has nothing to fear from the police and it could not be more fallacious.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:55am

Re: Re: I get he interrogation technique of applying pressure...
Innocent individuals that fear an oppressive government hide their faces and conceal their identities all the time.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 6:09am

Re: You Can Seize Property from a Trespasser
Swartz wasn't "bullied" into a plea bargain

Really?

you geeks looking literally at these maximum sentences

The ones in big bold letters at the top of the DOJ press releases? Those 'literal' maximum sentences?

he should have thought of that each time he committed such giant hacks serving as a "propaganda of the deed"

Yes, the innocent should think about what trumped up felony charges might be level against them for the legal acts each time they commit such legal acts. I know I often consider what felony I might be charged with for my own legal activities...

which seems less likely

Only because you're so naive.

The DOJ isn't "admitting" errors because it hasn't made them. As Holder said to Coryn, in the Ted Stevens case, he found prosecutorial misconduct and overreach and he called it. If it were present in the Swartz case, he would call it, too. It wasn't. He didn't.

Because it couldn't possibly be that the DOJ doesn't think it made any errors and is just wrong. One case of Holder correctly identifying misconduct is not evidence of his infallible ability to identify it nor his willingness to identify it in a completely different case.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 6:12am

Re:
Sure, just ignore completely the fact that the actual complaint is that this huge disconnect between pleas and maximum sentences in cases puts disproportionate bargaining power in the hands of the prosecutors. The fact that it's a systemic problem doesn't magically make it a non-issue. It can but make it worse. That you think the systemic nature of this activity is some kind of defense is astounding.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 6:13am

Re: Re:
That this kind of activity is routine is hardly an inconvenient truth. If anything it makes the point much much stronger.
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John Fenderson (profile), 9 Mar 2013 @ 8:33am

Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
You may not agree with his cause, but he did indeed fight a battle several, actually), and was indeed standing up for and fighting for what he believed was right.

Just because he lost doesn't take away from any of that.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 10:06am

You may not agree with his cause, but he did indeed fight a battle several, actually), and was indeed standing up for and fighting for what he believed was right.

Just because he lost doesn't take away from any of that.

He didn't lose. He quit. He didn't stand up. No judge, no jury, no member of the public ever heard him stand up and defend his position and repudiate the law and the case of the prosecution. The only battles were backroom negotiations over a plea bargain that bore no fruit and motions to suppress that went nowhere.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 10:16am

Re: Re:
Sure, just ignore completely the fact that the actual complaint is that this huge disconnect between pleas and maximum sentences in cases puts disproportionate bargaining power in the hands of the prosecutors. ,/i>

Not in the Federal system. Sentencing guidelines, not statutory maximums are what controls negotiations. The prosecutors could have asked for 100 years, but if the guidelines are 6-9 months, that's where the sentence falls. Unless of course you snitch, then you get less.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 10:18am

Re: Re: You Can Seize Property from a Trespasser
Just out of curiosity, have you bothered to read the indictment? Unless you wish to continue looking like a jackass, you may want to give it a quick look.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 10:23am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
Hahahaha, you call him out anonymously?

Jeremy7600? Well that narrows your identity down to a few billion. I guess you have no idea what a giant douchenozzle you look like now.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 10:38am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
No I'm not. How was hanging himself "standing up for what he firmly believed in"?

Standing up would have had him to tell the prosecutor to shove his plea offer and try his case and fight for his cause before a jury of his peers. Feel free to explain your contention. I think its really weak.
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pd, 9 Mar 2013 @ 11:09am

Re:
Ha! He really can't resist, can he? The brain of the year (not) has spoken and his word is law!
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Any Mouse (profile), 9 Mar 2013 @ 12:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
Your mis-characterization of his suicide is problematic, and far-too common in society, today. The assumption is that someone kills themselves and is therefore weak. No one stops to take into consideration mental health issues. People with mental health problems such as depression do not make the best decisions. They make the decisions their illness pushes them towards. Using his suicide to 'make a point' in the manner that you do makes you the person on the wrong side of the debate by default. You cannot know why he committed suicide or what he was thinking in the moments before. All you can do is make assumptions and sickeningly twist it all to your own benefit or argument. Please, take that troll elsewhere.
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Any Mouse (profile), 9 Mar 2013 @ 1:00pm

Re: Aron case
What democracy are you talking about? The US isn't a democracy. It's a democratic republic.
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Any Mouse (profile), 9 Mar 2013 @ 1:01pm

Re:
He committed suicide because he was sick. So are you, for using his death in your own agenda.
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Any Mouse (profile), 9 Mar 2013 @ 1:06pm

Aaron Swartz's suicide
I see far too many characterizing Mr Swartz as weak and/or guilty because he took his own life. They do not care that he was a sick man, suffering from depression. They do not care just how heavy-handed the actions were against him. So many people just assume was was guilty, and that his guilt drove him over the edge. Forget for the moment that he died an innocent man, because in this country you aren't guilty until you've been judged so in the courts. Think, instead, just how twisted it is that so many people will no only decry the work he did, but call him a coward for taking his own life. That is truly sickening to me. It's the basal misunderstanding of issues within the mind. It is ignorance and fear turning to disgust and hatred. I have nothing but pity for those sorts of people that would make these disparaging remarks against him. To me it is as bad as telling a cancer patient that they aren't really sick, and they are faking it all. For highly intelligent people (or so go the claims), your minds truly are small and closed.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 1:30pm

Re: Re:
He committed suicide because he was sick. So are you, for using his death in your own agenda.

I'm not the one publishing story after story using his tragic death to push my agenda. That would be Mike Masnick.

And there's no doubt his depression was the primary factor in his suicide, there we agree. I dispute the characterization that some have claimed his suicide was due to his feelings of "guilt." My take from the comments (and personal opinion) is that he couldn't deal with the consequences of his actions. There are probably a lot of people who are arrested and cannot believe they were even capable of getting in so much trouble.
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JMT (profile), 9 Mar 2013 @ 3:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I"m not the one being accused of not being accountable.
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JMT (profile), 9 Mar 2013 @ 3:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
I'll assume your question is based on an ignorance of what clinical depression does to people.

The point is he did not give in to the DoJ's bullying and threats by admitting guilt to felony charges he believed he was innocent of. You think he should of, which probably means you would too.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
I'm not so sure about him believing he was entirely innocent. It seems he did a great deal of apologizing to JSTOR, and I think he even compensated them financially. Not exactly the conduct of someone convinced of their innocence. No, he did not plead guilty and no one knows if he would have. Nor did he defend himself and his beliefs in court. The whole episode was a sad waste and accomplished nothing. Except a lifetime of sorrow for those who loved him.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Mar 2013 @ 5:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
It's not like he's hiding behind an AC tag like you are.

Really? What the fuck is this supposed to mean? Sounds like you're the one making the accusations about hiding behind anonymity while you are hiding in anonymity.
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JMT (profile), 9 Mar 2013 @ 8:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
"It seems he did a great deal of apologizing to JSTOR, and I think he even compensated them financially."

First I've heard of that, got a citation?
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JMT (profile), 10 Mar 2013 @ 12:53am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Jesus, learn to read! The AC's accusation was that Mike "doesn't do accountability", which I pointed out was hypocritical. My anonymity is irrelevant to the discussion.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2013 @ 8:38am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
You may want to try this service called "Google":

JSTOR came over to Swartz's side after "he gave the stuff back to JSTOR, paid them to compensate for any inconveniences and apologized," Peters said.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/swartz-death-fuels-debate-over-computer-crime
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John Fenderson (profile), 10 Mar 2013 @ 12:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
It wasn't. The disingenuous part is that you keep coming back to his suicide as if that was was the important action he took. You're trying to use his suicide to distract everyone from what he was really doing.

His suicide was a tragic failure, but that failure in no way negates what he did up to that point -- which was to fight for his ideals to an extent that very few people have the balls to do.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2013 @ 2:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
John, what did he actually do?

I know there was a plea agreement that failed, return of JSTOR's material, restitution to JSTOR and an apology to them as well. There was also a failed motion to suppress evidence against Swartz.

But I see none of that as "fighting for his ideals". Are there other actions he took that show him fighting for his beliefs? Because apologizing, paying restitution and returning the purloined files seems a lot like an admission of wrongful conduct to me. From everything I've read, I infer that he didn't take the plea deal because he didn't want to suffer the consequences- not that he was bent on the righteousness of his cause and wanted to draw attention to both cause and government persecution through a big public trial. Read the girlfriend's screed- it all seems to boil down to an inability to cope with the consequences of his actions. And that coupled with his mental illness led to a tragic decision.

Until you can provide an example of even one act of courage and/or principled stand, I have think that your objectivity is severely compromised.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2013 @ 5:34pm

Re: Re: Re:
To be fair, this isn't just "any disgruntled party" we're talking about.

You are right that anything printed that runs counter to the TD narrative usually get deconstructed to hell and back, but not always. Things that are consistent are not treated as the truth as often as you think. Usually, they are quoted with little comment. That's what happened here; the comment amounts to "interesting questions; I'd like to see the official responses to them", which is hardly a ringing endorsement.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2013 @ 6:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Pretty balanced assessment....
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2013 @ 6:12pm

Re: Re: I get he interrogation technique of applying pressure...
Why not? The cops are not interested in your innocence, that's for the judge to decide. The cops are just interested in pinning someone for whatever they can. Or they can just decide to shoot your car because it reminds them of someone else's.
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John Fenderson (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 6:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
what did he actually do?

Wikipedia has a decent overview of his work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

You're focusing on the JSTOR debacle. That's far too narrow of a view. His life is full of principled stands and fighting for what he believed in.

Because apologizing, paying restitution and returning the purloined files seems a lot like an admission of wrongful conduct to me.

Not to me. To me, this sounds like someone who was facing a legal situation that he couldn't deal with, and was looking for a way to resolve it without too much sacrifice. This sort of thing happens all the time. Apologizing, paying restitution, and "returning" the files are easy, meaningless things (in this case) that might have lifted a burden beyond his ability to cope.

You say "inability to cope with the consequences of his actions", and that's not wrong as far as it goes. But those consequences were an overbearing, out-of-proportion, abusive DOJ. He didn't predict such a crazed response (who could have?). I think a better phrasing of your statement is "inability to cope with an out-of-control prosecution".

You are correct that his story ended the way it did because of his own demons. You're incorrect that this means that his actions and intentions prior to the end are in some way called into question.

From everything I've read, I infer that he didn't take the plea deal because he didn't want to suffer the consequences

According to everything I've read, he didn't take the plea deal because he didn't think he was guilty of what he was being charged with.

I have think that your objectivity is severely compromised.

Irrelevant. I don't claim objectivity. That said, I'm no less objective than you are.
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bratwurzt (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 8:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Hey man, you're feeding this troll and it's after midnight... he's going all gremlin on you. ;)
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bratwurzt (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 8:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yeah, because shit that happens in your country never leaks acid to the rest of the world. Lucky us, foreigners.
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bratwurzt (profile), 11 Mar 2013 @ 8:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
He's calling him out on his obvious hypocrisy. Pointing out hypocrisy doesn't make you a hypocrite, since you're not doing something you've called someone else out on.

Example:
1. you are dressed at a nudist beach and you're making fun out of someone else who is dressed at that same beach
2. if I point out your hypocrisy my state of clothes is irrelevant to the point I'm making

At best it's ironic.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2013 @ 9:14am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Even given ALL your claims, Mike, Aaron Swartz let himself in for it.
Moving the goalpost again? The entire conversation has been about the JSTOR debacle.

And I see little difference between compromising ones principles and apologizing, returning files and paying restitution than accepting a plea bargain. It's the SAME thing, except one cost money and loss of face, the other caused loss of time and (perhaps) a stigma. Neither of those actions are consistent with "fighting back" or a principled stand". I he felt he did nothing wrong, why apologize? Why return the files? Why pay damages?

I simply don't see anything other than someone looking to avoid the consequences of his own actions. You, nor anyone else has been able to point to a single statement or deed in conjunction with this situation that remotely looks like a stand on principle.
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Niall (profile), 13 Mar 2013 @ 7:23am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The Russians are about the last people I'd pay attention to on their opinions of 'journalism'.

(As an aside, I note that it is typically mind-gallingly hypocritical that all the old Cold Warriors suddenly 'love' Pravda when it is critical of Obama and how America is.)
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Niall (profile), 13 Mar 2013 @ 7:28am

Re: Re: Re: Re: re anonymous coward
Right, so you get threatened with 7-35 years in federal prison for something you really didn't do (and let's face it, whatever he did was in no way comparable to murder, etc.) you should just suck it up and accept even 3 months in prison?
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Mar 2013 @ 7:03pm

Re:
You're right, TAC, there are rules against withholding evidence. What evidence was withheld here?

On the other hand, if someone "defending against the Government hid a report that proved they knew what they were doing was wrong," there would not be sanctions and "all sorts of problems." At least not for the defendants.
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