DRM Strikes Again: Digital Comics Distributor JManga Closing Down... And Deleting Everyone's Purchases

from the ensuring-only-pirates-will-have-access-to-its-comics dept

Mon, Mar 18th 2013 9:50am — Tim Cushing

DRM is rearing its malformed head again and biting the hands that feed it. Rather than simply making an otherwise useful product useless unless requirements x, y and z are met, this time DRM is issuing a clawback on ~~purchased~~ rented digital goods.

Nate Hoffelder at The Digital Reader has the details.

JManga broke some hearts this week when they announced that they were ceasing operations.

This digital manga distributor announced earlier this week that they would no longer sell manga as of 26 March and planned to shut down completely in May.

These things happen. Nothing unusual about a company going out of business, but the words "digital manga distributor" should give you pause (especially if you were a customer).

Any customers with store credit would get a refund in Amazon.com gift cards...

Well, that's certainly thoughtful of them. Wait, why's there an ellipsis on this sentence?

… and any purchased content will be lost when JManga turns off the lights in May (no downloads allowed).

Oh. Fun. Yes, JManga, distributor of digital manga, decided to hold off the pirates by screwing the customers and it's all spelled out in infuriating black and white at JManga's official, soon-to-be-former site.

c.) Manga Viewing Service Termination

Date: May 30th at 11:59pm (US Pacific Time) Details: As of May 30th 2013 at 11:59pm (US Pacific Time) users will no longer be able to view digital manga content on JManga.com. At this time all purchased and free digital manga content will be erased from all JManga Member’s accounts.

And, yes, no downloads are allowed, according to the FAQ.

It is not possible to download manga from My Page.

So, the pirates win again. JManga's DRM will allow the distributor to delete paid for manga from customers' accounts, but presumably all DRM-stripped pirate "accounts" will remain unaffected in perpetuity.

It began promisingly enough.

JManga launched with much fanfare in 2011. This company was backed by the 36 publishers of the Japanese Digital Comics Association, and it was created as a laudable response to the then rampant fan-based scanlation (piracy and English-language translation) of Japanese comics. By offering a legitimate option these publishers hoped to provide the content that was obviously desired by fans.

Unfortunately, things went downhill quickly thanks to pricing issues (mainly that they were too high) and a failure to capitalize on a rapidly growing smartphone market. Now, it's out of business and its insistence on protecting its products with DRM has resulted in the following scorecard -- pirates affected: 0; paying customers affected: ALL.

What we have here is a yet another example of the fact that DRM does nothing but punish the paying customer. It doesn’t actually stop piracy; in this case piracy was already rampant thanks to readily available scanners and a large and enthusiastic fan base.

All that was accomplished with JManga was that the legitimate customer was punished for being honest and paying for the content they received. The pirates, on the other hand, weren’t bothered at all.

I wish more publishers could learn from this mistake, because the hostility that has been shown toward JManga customers is appalling.

"Hostility" is the correct term. Protecting your offerings from those who aren't paying by making those who actually support you subject to anything from minor annoyances to HAVING ALL THEIR PURCHASES DELETED can't really be described as anything but. Adding a layer of perversity to the mix is the fact that JManga is still allowing customers to purchase its products until March 26th, despite the fact that these too will be deleted on May 30th.

When you combine digital goods with DRM, it's lose-lose for paying customers. It turns purchases into rentals and subjects purchasers to the whims of the company. Whether its a verification server being shut down or a company going out of business and taking all its content with it, it all spells bad news for those who exchanged money for goods not even worth the paper the license isn't printed on.

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Filed Under: drm, manga, punishment
Companies: jmanga

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Ninja (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 9:33am

This is yet another of those posts I'm itching to hear from our usual critics. What do we need to do to summon out_of_the_blue, average_joe, bob and the other nameless ones (*wink*)? I really want to hear from them about how the fuck this is fair. I'll risk one of their idiotic arguments: you pirates brought it on us all. BULLSHIT. You know what the pirates will do? They'll help those customers that were mercilessly cheated to acquire the goods they paid for.

I buy manga every once in a while (if it's available here and for fair pricing) but the great majority never make it to the national market. Such service would have been simply damn awesome even without any smartphone support. However I never even touched it. Why? Because I feared a bunch of things with the digital offerings and DRM:

1- Digital content I paid could be removed if some publisher freaked out and decided to leave because the service wasn't paying them the trillions of dollars they deserve and my digital content would go with it (Amazon does that regularly)
2- The service could fail and then all my digital purchases would be either locked behind their drm or lost altogether

Turns out my fears were right and I spared myself of being robbed in probably hundreds and hundreds of dollars.

So how did I do during all this period? PIRACY or simply by GOING WITHOUT IT. In either case no money for the publishers or the authors (unless the author had the enlightenment to put some donation method for me to contribute directly).

In any case I'll wait anxiously for the laughs that will come from our trolls trying to defend what happened as if it's fair.
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silverscarcat (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 9:52am

You know one thing I hate...
Is when manga licenses expire.

Then you can't get the next volume of the manga you were following that you really wanted and it's irksome.

Oh sure, Negima, Bleach, Naruto and One Piece, yes, they're okay. But more niche series that I might enjoy?

Yeah, they get canned...

And then when you look for scanlations because you can't follow the manga anymore...

"Sorry, this manga has been licensed and is no longer available on _____."

And I'm like....

FUUUUUUUU!
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out_of_the_blue, 18 Mar 2013 @ 9:58am

ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
And eliminating copyright would simply remove all hope of getting income from works.

Take a loopy tour of Techdirt.com! You always end up at same place!
http://techdirt.com/
What are you stoopid pirates doing here? Mike supports copyright!
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 9:59am

It seems like a hell of a stretch to call scanlations "piracy" since they are derivative works of things not covered by US copyright in the first place. Sure, the popular ones get licensed to US companies, but even the most popular franchises often flounder with no official international versions for years. There were what, EIGHT volumes of Death Note before even the first one was officially translated to English?
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Nigel (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:03am

Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
Ok, so who said this dimwits name 3 times.

N.
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out_of_the_blue, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:04am

Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
The FAIRNESS of copyright is it intends that only the creators get (a chance at) the rewards from producing the works. It explicitly does NOT provide that those who don't pay for the works can still enjoy them for free.

That's simple economics, which applies even for entertainments: those who produce are to get the rewards, while those who merely use the products must TRADE something of value for goods or works.
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DannyB (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:06am

FTFY
> ensuring-only-pirates-will-have-access-to-its-comics dept

ensuring only pirates will have access to the COMICS THEY PURCHASED dept.

Yes, pirates do purchase some media.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:07am

Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
Hyperbole is fun.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:07am

Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
How do you keep managing to post from 1974? There are myriad ways to produce income from works without abusing copyright these days, it's not even really that hard anymore. A few decades ago you would have been completely right, now you just sound like a clueless old fool.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:08am

Exactly why people don't like DRM.
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silverscarcat (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:09am

Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL MONOPOLY
"And eliminating copyright would simply remove all hope of corporations controlling culture works forever."

Wow, you actually made sense for once.
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DannyB (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:09am

Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
If what I pay for is going to suddenly stop working one day, then please explain why I should pay for it?

Examples DRM making PAID content disappear:
* Microsoft Plays For Sure
* Microsoft Zune
* eBooks
* Digital comics
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silverscarcat (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:10am

Re:
I wouldn't know, but I *DO* know that One Piece owes its entire Western fanbase to scanlations.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:12am

Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
"And eliminating copyright would simply remove all hope of getting income from works."

That is a Lie and you know it.
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:12am

Re: Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
Posting from 1974?

That may explain why we never see a decent rebuttal from out_of_blue...it's all being posted in the past.
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Lord Binky, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:14am

Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
Just like the root problem of Life is Death.

I think it's just sad how lazy these OOTB retorts are getting. Blatently false statement are just damn annoying. Toilet paper in a hurricance holds up better than that. Sheesh. Really now, if 'eliminating copyright remove all hope of getting income from works' that would require

1. That copyright instills hope of getting income from work (If you read a contract that goes along with copyrighted works, hope is not what is inspired)

2. That income from work never happened until copyright was adopted.

*sigh*
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E. Zachary Knight (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:15am

Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
It explicitly does NOT provide that those who don't pay for the works can still enjoy them for free.

That is dodging the actual question. We were asking how denying paying customers the content they paid for fair and just. Do you have an answer to that?

those who produce are to get the rewards, while those who merely use the products must TRADE something of value for goods or works.

So paying money, which most economists agree is something of value, does not guarantee access to a good or work?
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Zakida Paul (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:16am

Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
Yeah, the root of the problem of PAYING customers losing access to what they PAID for is piracy.

What a monumental bell end.
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John Fenderson (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:17am

Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
This is simply, obviously, demonstrably incorrect.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:18am

Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
In "simple economic" terms, you have two main driving forces: supply and demand.

When supply increases, but demand remains constant, the price is forced downward. When supply is infinite, price is forced towards the lowest possible value: 0.

How is your precious "Copyright" going to help you cope with the driving forces of the economy?
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Jay (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:19am

Re:
I just can't afford official manga... It's overpriced, there are never any deals on the books, and it's far too easy for me to just keep up with the story through digital access.

I would love to get the manga for One Piece. But it has over 800 chapters now. Since each book puts in ten chapters into a larger book, that price is far too high at $ 10. Think about this... The story is only half way done and I would have to invest the price of a car payment into this story. This isn't even getting into the anime which has only three episodes on a disc and costs $20 a piece. That has over 500 episodes. Do the math...

Either I have to be rich for a hobby, or I'm being exploited for their private benefit.

So thank God for those portrays that actually invest in this medium and allow me to keep up with these stories. Thank the Creator, for someone uploading their translations and showing how bad the official ones are. And thank Zeus for those pirates maintaining a weekly schedule that OP maintains in presenting some great we can watch here in the US were it not for greedy individuals trying to say that people should do without Impresa they charge an unnecessary toll to access.
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Lord Binky, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:25am

It really is derivative work, translations are quite subjective. Besides that the scanlation groups ARE customers, and usually require donations to acquire the media to be scanned. Then they donate their own time and effort into scanning the media, cleaning it up, translating, formating, and then digitally transmit the work.

What's funny is that the scanlators have more to lose in spent costs if the Japanese comic publishers made use of their unofficial works.

I also find it sad that they don't make a better relationship with scanlators and fansub groups. Offer to let them live in piece if the company can make use of the group's work without compensation. Tada! Free translations (that are often far more accurate than the translations they pay for).
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:28am

This will only serve to hurt the next business that wants to start up and do the same thing, even if they don't have DRM. How can you trust them to not screw you over like JManga?

This is why I'll NEVER buy any electronic books, and why I have 2 full bookshelves that are over 6 feet tall and 3 feet wide. I'll probably need to get a third similar sized bookshelf sooner rather then later from all the physical books I've bought over the years and will keep buying.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:31am

Ahh the old "Give us your money, and fuck off, have a nice day." Companies like this are the REAL PIRATES.
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Ninja (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:33am

Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
It explicitly does NOT provide that those who don't pay for the works can still enjoy them for free.

Agreed with that much. Now explain why those who paid will be left without the content they paid for. Also, there's no fairness in copyright as it is today. It's nothing but a monster.

That's simple economics, which applies even for entertainments: those who produce are to get the rewards, while those who merely use the products must TRADE something of value for goods or works.

Newsflash: digital goods can be replicated to infinity. Simple economics tell us that their value then drops to zero. And I am not even touching the fact that anyone can copy so by your logic anyone can get the rewards. You fail when you consider copyright to follow simple economics, it does not. By your logic, the authors would need to pay me for using my computer to display the goods so I can read.
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Another AC, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:35am

Re: Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL MONOPOLY
Indeed, copyright is a legal structure. Out here in reality that doesn't usually result in any control at all - 'Piracy' is the manifestation of this.
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Ninja (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:36am

Re: Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
He's a genius! He invented some sort of temporal displacement connection to the intertubes!

I wanna see how things will be in the future, maybe I'll be that clueless in my comments?
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:36am

and the politicians triumph again! if only they understood and actually cared about the laws they were implementing and the harm they were doing by fucking up customers, perhaps they wouldn't act so stupidly. trouble with most of these politicians is they are too old to understand or care about anything other than how to line their own pockets and at whose expense is immaterial!
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Ninja (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:40am

Re: Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
Thank you. He's missing the point so hard it almost hurts. Regardless if the service died from piracy (it didn't) NOTHING justifies the people who paid the stuff losing their content. I think maybe the complete and utter lack of justification is what's driving him to spew all sorts of arguments that completely miss the point.
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Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:40am

Well... close
What we have here is a yet another example of the fact that DRM does nothing but punish the paying customer.
Well that's not entirely true... after all:
things went downhill quickly thanks to pricing issues [SNIP] and a failure to capitalize on a rapidly growing smartphone market.
Perhaps if they hadn't paid for the pointless DRM technology the prices could have been a little lower and certainly more people would have bought even at the higher price for unencumbered content. More to the point, any barrier to "capitalizing on a rapidly growing smartphone market" would have instantly vanished with a product unencumbered by DRM.
So it turns out that DRM is also useful for screwing up your niche company.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:40am

Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
Right, because prior to copyright nobody could get any income from works. No one could sell anything until copyright came along.

By the way, if Mike supports copyright then what the fuck are you still ranting about?
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Ninja (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:41am

Re: Re:
That. And when I saw Sanji in the North American version with a damn lollipop I lost faith in whatever got past the moralism.
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Ninja (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:44am

Re: Re:
I'd be inclined to think the author is glad that people translate his stuff and make it available to millions... Now his publisher...
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Jessie (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:47am

Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
Those who produce must also provide the means for their product to get to market. We don't expect everyone to drive to Hershey, PA for a chocolate bar, Hershey has a supply chain that reliably distributes their goods to a market place to be bought and consumed by a grateful customer.

The problem here is that DRM is providing a less than reliable market. Too many people are gun shy about purchasing material with DRM when that same DRM that restricts your use of their product and supposedly prevents piracy can also remove your access to something that is purchased. When the local tower records closed, they didn't come and take the CD's I had purchased from them back. But that is basically the same thing that is happening here.

I have had a lot of complaints about Shonen Jump Alpha about how they handle certain things. But recently my subscription expired and I don't currently have the extra money to renew at this point. I also did not read the last 2 issues before the expiration, so I figured I was out of luck for those. But this weekend I opened the app and it still allowed me to download the ones I had subscribed to but not downloaded before the end of my subscription. I was impressed that they seem to be doing that very well, when most digital services these days cut you off.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:48am

Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
Therefore, please return everything you own to the original distributors for absolutely no reason. Failing that, throw everything out. After all, it's only "fair".
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anonymouse, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:50am

Piracy hell yeah
Piracy seriously needs to become legal, there is no other way around the problem of businesses stealing money off people, look at EA and their mess and many many other examples this one included, Piracy must be made legal to help people to compensate when businesses suddenly tell you that somewhere in the small print is a bullet point that makes all of your purchases a purchase of a license to read the content you have purchased.

I refuse to ever buy anything with DRM i will pirate it and i will use it without paying until they fix the problem with using DRM. i.e they get rid of any form of DRM.

And anyone saying i should just pay then pirate it , why? i mean they have not done anything to encourage me to give them money, yes they created something that is broken and i for one am not going to pay them and reward them for that. Forget it , i will pirate and not make any purchase until they resolve the problem they have with a desperate need to control what people do with their legally purchased goods.
Forget what is wrong or right forget about paying the people producing the content, if it takes someone else to break their DRM to enable me to use what i have purchased then they do not deserve one penny from me.I am not going to reward them in any way for DRM they need to suffer until they realize that DRM only affects those that pay for their content, and that it affects their bottom line.
Until they find a way to overcome their fear of piracy and release things with absolutely no drm they need to feel the pain of people not paying them a penny, and if they stop createing content, well good, they did not deserve to make money in the first place for accusing their customers of piracy by making them put up with DRM.
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Trevor (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:52am

Re: Re: @ Ninja & OOTB
Actually, Copyright was intended to "Promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries" and not "only the creators get the rewards from producing the works.

It is not meant as a permanent crutch creators use to support themselves, and actually limits the lengh creators can have exclusive rights to their creations. What DRM is doing is locking creations up indefinitely, and extending that Right beyond the "rewards from producing the works."

DRM is more that protecting the rights of creation, but actually restricts what someone can do with something they paid full price for after the purchase. The ONLY way this type of DRM should be allowed is if the product is priced at a RENTAL price, not full retail.

Blockbuster used to rent movies at 3 bucks a pop. They didn't charge 19.99 (full price for a dvd) to rent it. Instead of paying 60 bucks for SimCity that is "unplayable" (look at reddit), or 10 bucks for a digital graphic novel that can be erased at the seller's whim, why not charge rental rates? because that's what this type of digital DRM does. It makes the product a rental.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:52am

Well, I was right in my decision to forever stick with paper books. No DRM, no compatibility issues, no need for internet connection... see, before the invention of computers, technology was, in many ways, more convenient. (And now I sound awfully old.)
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:58am

Don't Weep For the Customers
If they're stupid enough to pay for something they can't jailbreak, they deserve whatever happens to them.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:00am

Re: Re:
Yeah, if you're sticking to official copies of long-running series, the only economical ways to make it work are A) be exorbitantly wealthy, B) find them all used (check Half Price Books if you have one near you, their website if you don't - of course, this gives the publisher exactly the same amount of money as pirating the work does) or C) ...don't follow long-running manga in the first place.

It's insane because the original Japanese volumes are cheaply printed in really flimsy paperbacks on recycled newspaper and sold at a price point to match. They're so cheap that even after the cost of importing them, it's still usually cheaper to buy three or four Japanese volumes of a book than a single volume of the same book in English.
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average_joe, 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:00am

If piracy wasnt so rampent then this wouldnt' be a problem. Bought it on themselves.
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Ninja (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:02am

Re:
We'll excuse you while you go treat your back (damn heavy books) and we go treat our arms (mouse and keyboard tendinitis). Ahem. j/k

And I somewhat agree with you =D
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riku, 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:04am

Until fairly recently, the English-language manga publishing industry had a relatively peaceful relationship with it's pirates; not only because English-language publishers had seen what a mess record producers had made by treating their customers like criminals (although this was true, and has been stated outright by various publishers), but also because scanlators were both a huge, unpaid publicity arm of official publishers and also their potential talent pool. It was well-known in the community both that which series were chosen for publication was often based largely on which series were already popular in pirated form, and also that many manga translators working on official translations had previously been scanlators.

Since the economic downturn though, the tacit semi-cooperative relationship between publishers and fan-producers/pirates has largely disappeared. And it was not the pirates who started the downward spiral. In an effort to capture the scanlation "market", publishing companies started aggressively taking down fan content, even where that content is only available in Japanese, and at the same time started hiring fan-translators to produce electronic-only versions of manga at sub-standard wages. I myself have turned down translation contracts with two English language manga publishers because the contract provisions were too unconscionable for me to tolerate. And now, since I feel angry and resentful towards the English language publishers, any of the very few legal manga purchases I still make are hopeless colored by those feelings. I was an approximately $100 per month customer; now I buy maybe 3 to 4 manga per year. 知的財産さん、いい仕事を 375;たね！(Good work, Copyright-san!)
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Ninja (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:06am

Re:
Ah, the moron of the morons. He shows his face.

Let us stick to the point? Even if piracy did close the service (it didn't) the question is (read carefully and slowly to understand it and do it more than once):

People PAID for the content and are losing it, how is it fair? Come on AJ, I know it's hard to look away from the light but forget piracy for a moment and think of it. PAYING customers that will lose the content they PAID for. We are waiting =)
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:10am

Re:
4/5 actually got me for a second
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Lord Binky, 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:13am

Re: Re:
Paper books support tree farmers, which means paper books are better for the economy. Help the economy, kill a tree now!...and then replant one, for the children.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:26am

Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
Copyright is i9ntended to control the making of copies, it is not meant to control the use of those copies once they have been made and sold. This is an instance where it is doing that by removing something someone has bough. That is not fair, and because the company is vanishing, the ex-customers have no way to be compensated for their loss. Unlike so called piracy, this has cost people real money.
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riku, 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:26am

Re: Don't Weep For the Customers
If we all get our just deserts for every poor decision we make, then we'll all be in Hell together.

Why not offer something to help people make better decisions next time instead of giving only your useless, arrogant disdain?

Some nice tools for e-book customers:
http://calibre-ebook.com/
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/10/drm-be-damned-how-to-p rotect-your-amazon-e-books-from-being-deleted/
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That One Guy (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:28am

Re:
For summoning them, I believe the following are the 'triggers':

OoTB: Any mention of a big company that isn't one of the *AA's(as for some reason whenever they are mentioned he/she is strangely silent or busy defending them).

AJ: Mentioning that the law or those enforcing it may be wrong. Alternatively, merely mentioning Mike's name will almost surely get him to show up with the usual 'why won't you debate me?!'

bob: Any post or comment that is talking about google doing something right(much like OoTB, bob tends to be strangely silent/absent on articles talking about something that google is doing wrong).
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:39am

Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
It explicitly does NOT provide that those who don't pay for the works can still enjoy them for free.

What about those who paid and expected that they would get a piece of information that would not be remote vaporized it's publisher.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:40am

Re:
So long as their is no DRM, and they are in a reasonable format, PDF, HTML or EPUB, their is nothing wrong with Ebooks. As for physical books, you have a few when you need island bookshelves because all the available wall space is covered in them.
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That One Guy (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:45am

Awesome...
As if I needed any more reason to avoid anything tainted by DRM.
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That One Guy (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:51am

Re: Don't Weep For the Customers
Ah, but here's where it gets fun, because you see, this stuff was locked up via a form of DRM, which means jailbreaking it or otherwise breaking the DRM would also be illegal.

So yet again you have a situation where only the people who were willing to play by the rules and do things legally are getting screwed. The pirates, and/or those that were willing to break the DRM to get usable copies of what they paid for? They aren't affected in the least.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:51am

Re:
You are saying that if there wasn't piracy there wouldn't be a need for DRM?

But it is because of DRM or lack of different formats that piracy is becoming a problem. My legit purchases I have had to strip the DRM in order to use it. One digital movie I purchased wouldn't play on my projector. I found out later that they only allowed devices that used HDMI and not VGA because it could only recognize devices on digital input and not on analog. They didn't want someone recording the signal over an analog connection. I couldn't remove the DRM and they wouldn't refund my money so I just downloaded the same movie by other means.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 12:13pm

Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
It explicitly does NOT provide that those who don't pay for the works can still enjoy them for free.

Copyright does not control who can enjoy a work, only who can make copies. It does not restrict the use of copies to one person.
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DannyB (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 12:14pm

Re:
> If piracy wasnt so rampent then this wouldnt' be a problem. Bought it on themselves.

So are you saying that all paying customers are pirates and deserve this?

Or are you saying that paying customers deserve this because other people who pirate brought it upon the innocent paying customers?

You should be required by law to announce that on your product:

NOTE: IF YOU BUY THIS PRODUCT it may suddenly stop working because other people (who are not you) engage in piracy.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 12:40pm

Seems to me that this is a lot closer to theft than downloading a copy is.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 1:00pm

Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
"The FAIRNESS of copyright is it intends that only the creators get (a chance at) the rewards from producing the works. It explicitly does NOT provide that those who don't pay for the works can still enjoy them for free."

And now, boy, with no other "official" outlet for manga, those creators won't see another cent from digital versions of their books.
According to you, that's a "win" for copyright.
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jameshogg (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 1:01pm

Anybody who purchased manga using JManga is morally entitled, in fact I should say "obligated", to hack their downloads and save them from deletion.

And anybody who disagrees with this can fuck off.

The disgraceful rhetoric I've been seeing in these comments: the idea that because there are pirates therefore people who pay their hard earned money deserve to be ripped off and, get this, "brought it all on themselves." I have to ask, because it cannot be as stupid as it seems, what exactly did paying customers do to deserve having their content stolen?
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 1:03pm

Re: Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
"I think it's just sad how lazy these OOTB retorts are getting."

He's just posting to fill his quota for payment by his corporate masters.
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gorehound (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 1:26pm

If it has DRM it should be Boycotted ! Download it for free and feel no guilt about doing that.If you do buy it and spend hard earned money and the Company goes out of Business your DRM Purchase will be worthless and your money has been thrown out for nothing.
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cpt kangarooski, 18 Mar 2013 @ 1:40pm

Re:
It seems like a hell of a stretch to call scanlations "piracy" since they are derivative works of things not covered by US copyright in the first place.

Huh? What makes you think that they don't have a US copyright?

17 USC 104:

(a) Unpublished Works.� The works specified by sections 102 and 103, while unpublished, are subject to protection under this title without regard to the nationality or domicile of the author.
(b) Published Works.� The works specified by sections 102 and 103, when published, are subject to protection under this title if�
(1) on the date of first publication, one or more of the authors is a national or domiciliary of the United States, or is a national, domiciliary, or sovereign authority of a treaty party, or is a stateless person, wherever that person may be domiciled; or
(2) the work is first published in the United States or in a foreign nation that, on the date of first publication, is a treaty party

Japan is a treaty party for section 104 purposes. Therefore unpublished works are protected, published works by a Japanese author are protected, and published works first published in Japan are protected.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 1:45pm

Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
Another insightful post from out_of_the_blew_my_dad. You're the reason I read Techdirt!

Thank you sir!
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 1:50pm

Re:
There has been plenty of times the usually suspects refer to piracy as "stealing" or theft of electronic goods and demand extremely severe punishments. Then there is usually someone who points out that "stealing" isn't the correct wording when the other party still has theirs. That isn't the case here.

Where are those that always shout "theft" and "stealing" with their demands for severe punishment to those who have "stolen" digital goods in the instance where it actually is "theft" and "stealing"?
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 2:10pm

Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
So OOTB, in your unusual understanding of copyright, neither the public or the paying customer gets (a chance at) rewards from produced works?
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RD, 18 Mar 2013 @ 2:17pm

Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
"The FAIRNESS of copyright is it intends that only the creators get (a chance at) the rewards from producing the works. It explicitly does NOT provide that those who don't pay for the works can still enjoy them for free.

That's simple economics, which applies even for entertainments: those who produce are to get the rewards, while those who merely use the products must TRADE something of value for goods or works."

So tell us, O great and wise defender of all things Copyright: what part of your above screed entitles the Great and Powerful Copyright Holder to charge a customer for a Copy of their Protected Work, and then later REMOVE the Copy of their Protected Work WITHOUT giving the money back?

Please, enlighten us all with your Great Pearls of Wisdom as to how THIS is "fair" and "right" and "lawful," but someone making a copy of said works to preserve them when they are taken away is a "pirate," "thief" and "lawbreaker?"

If you cannot (or will not) answer this question, then you have NOTHING to say on this subject ever again. You also can never again complain about how everyone tl;dr and auto-reports you just based on your name and not the content of your messages, as you will have proven you don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.
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Gwiz (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 2:22pm

Digital Firemen
I'm not sure why, but when I see stories like this where the platform reaches into your device and removes the ability to view your legitimately purchased content it makes me think about the Firemen in Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451.

Luckily, I can go back and reread my dead tree version since it didn't self-destruct when the author died last June.
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Internet Zen Master (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 2:36pm

Re: Re: Re:
Ninja, it was licensed by 4kids. Those jackasses were like the prudish old lady of dubbing companies.

That said, I wonder how one of the dubbing companies (Bandai) plans to deal with the newer seasons of some it's more well-known anime. Let's just say that the new season has some rather gratuitous fanservice and leave it at that...

Actually, I'm kinda terrified to see what they do to the show in terms of censorship.
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That One Guy (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 4:07pm

Re:
Yeah, you can't help but laugh at the double standards the 'they deserved it' people seem to have.

People download/pirate something = 'That is stealing from the artists/creators by taking something without providing recompense to the ones who own it!'

Company screws over a whole ton of people, cutting off their access to what they paid for, and refusing to give them a refund = 'Well it's their own fault, they should have realized that they'd be punished for what someone else may or may not have done!'
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 4:10pm

Re: Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
Next Up, Examples DRM making PAYING customers disappear?

Probably Maxis - Sim City will make that list.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 5:44pm

Re: Re:
No, pretty sure it's not him. The real jackass doesn't even bother keying in his username anymore, thinking people won't notice when he's being naughty on his wife's laptop.
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Bernard Swiss, 18 Mar 2013 @ 7:08pm

Re: Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL MONOPOLY
Yes, made sense.

Still wrong, though.
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That One Guy (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 7:30pm

Re: Re:
That would be 'off blaming the victims, pirates, and anyone but the company responsible'. To them such things as stealing and theft are only wrong when they aren't being done by a company.
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zyodei (profile), 18 Mar 2013 @ 7:37pm

I'm totally OK with this.
Just refund 100% of every purchase made since 2011, revoke all the downloadable content, and it's all fair in my eyes.

Don't refund the money, and it is theft and fraud, a far more egregious crime than piracy, because in this case there are measurable losers who are deprived of their property rights.

In the first case, hopefully, no hard feelings. In the second, a class action lawsuit is in order.
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Androgynous Cowherd, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:01pm

This...
...sounds like a job for Alt+Printscreen, Ctrl+V, and Photoshop.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:32pm

That's why I ONLY buy DRMed goods that I am able to remove the protection from. I then save the item THAT I HAVE BOUGHT so that I always have access to it.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 10:40pm

Re: This... (sounds like a job for Alt+Printscreen, Ctrl+V, and Photoshop)
Hmm, looks like you can't buy points there anymore. It's just as well- I'm too poor and too busy, and all those manga are just lying there til March 25th, crying and begging to be printscreened, compiled, and released on a scanlation site before they disappear to English-speakers forever.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2013 @ 11:54pm

I simply will not agree to purchase online DRM restricted goods. Sooner or later, those servers will go off line. Might not be today, might not be tomorrow but one day, the company that sponsors them will pull the plug to save money and when they do, whatever you had is gone if it is saved on the site only.

I have no want nor desire for such a purpose with the realization at the start it won't always be there. This is one reason why buying games on line isn't a consideration either. The stuff that EA does is simply a foolish purchase. If you took the money you were going to spend and burnt it, at least you would get light and heat out of it, ever so briefly.
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The Real Michael, 19 Mar 2013 @ 6:04am

Re: Re: ROOT PROBLEM IS STILL PIRACY.
"Yeah, the root of the problem of PAYING customers losing access to what they PAID for is piracy."

Technically these paying customers have been defrauded; their content wasn't 'pirated' in the true sense.

I knew right from the start that digital distribution was a scam waiting to happen. That's why I refuse to purchase anything except physical goods.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2013 @ 8:36am

DRM = Digital RENTAL Media

I will NEVER pay full price for a RENTAL! A Game with DRM is nothing less than a rental as you do NOT own ANYTHIING. You can only USE what you bought as THEY seem fit.

SCREW THAT!

BOYCOTT EA GAMES!
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Mike, 19 Mar 2013 @ 11:16am

Yawn...
Yet another reason I buy only Tangible objects...
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AC, 19 Mar 2013 @ 1:08pm

No surprise, here.
If you buy anything with anytype of DRM scheme, you're going to get screwed. Stop being stupid.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2013 @ 2:29pm

Re:
That's why the first thing I did when purchasing books for my Kindle was strip the DRM out of them. To this day if there isn't a method to strip the DRM out of a digital product I want I will not under any circumstance purchase it.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Mar 2013 @ 11:07pm

Re: Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
I don't know why people don't already tl;dr that idiot. He's already claimed multiple times that he does this to every single article he deems too long anyway. He doesn't deserve the benefit of the tl;dr.
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RD, 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:58am

Re: Re: Re: @"Ninja" - "how the fuck this is fair"?
So 3 days and no response from you, as was expected. So you now have ZERO credibility and has been proven. You don't get to complain about auto-reports on your comments ever again, and you don't get to post your ShillTroll specious drivel on these subjects again. You had your chance to stand like a shining beacon and boldly take your stand on the topic that seems to utterly consume your life, and you didn't even bother to respond. You're done here.
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Anon, 21 Mar 2013 @ 3:12pm

JManga Content
I have purchased from JManga and I am mad I am losing my stuff, so I figured out their system and wrote a program to download the enUS and jaJP versions of whatever series you have paid for. I am just working out some tweaks but I will release it once done.
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havemercy (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 12:58pm

FUUUUU
FUUUUUUUUUUUUU.......good thing I moved to emanga a couple of months ago.
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havemercy (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 1:03pm

Re: FUUUUU
and btw, the reason why I moved was because of this specific reason....NON-DRM!!! Try out it out emanga if you want.
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ika, 24 Mar 2013 @ 10:22pm

Re: JManga Content
Have you finished the program? I could really use it. I bought around 30 volumes & would very much like to keep them.
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Anon, 25 Mar 2013 @ 5:27pm

Re: Re: JManga Content
Yeah I have, I am just getting ready to distribute it after one final test.
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Anon, 25 Mar 2013 @ 5:46pm

Re: JManga Content
Here is the program as promised, just make sure you read and follow the instructions. https://anonfiles.com/file/916d32536a777a4759da4f972ffbbbe8
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ika, 25 Mar 2013 @ 7:32pm

Re: Re: JManga Content
hmmm, I can't seem to download the file.
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ika, 25 Mar 2013 @ 7:53pm

Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
is there a certain way to download from there? since i tried another link & I couldn't download that too.
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Anon, 25 Mar 2013 @ 10:49pm

Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
Here is another place you can download it from: http://www.mediafire.com/?5l4jtu62lvfkwz3
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ika, 26 Mar 2013 @ 1:28am

Re: Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
thanks! hmmm, i followed all the steps but each time i put the id, it tells me invalid seires/volume id. I need to put just the number right?
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ika, 26 Mar 2013 @ 1:53am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
I also get an error before i can log in saying, "unable to get value of 'setStyle': object is null or undefined"
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Anon, 26 Mar 2013 @ 1:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
What series are you trying to get, and can you post the link that you are getting the ID from.

The 'setStyle' thing just click no on, that is a problem with JManga's site coding, it won't affect the program in any way.
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ika, 26 Mar 2013 @ 4:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
i use either (http://www.jmanga.com/read/?series_id=225&chapter_id=561&skip_wall=1&show_toc=1) or (http://www.jmanga.com/preview/?volume_id=137)
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ika, 26 Mar 2013 @ 4:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
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ika, 26 Mar 2013 @ 4:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
i was mainly trying to get "when I'm with you"
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Anon, 26 Mar 2013 @ 6:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
You seem to be following the instructions wrong because I just tested it with those and it worked.

Click login, when the script error pops-up click no, enter login information like you normally would, DO NOT CLOSE THE WINDOW. Once logged in, go back to the main program and enter the information, it should work.
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ika, 26 Mar 2013 @ 8:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
when I click get info! that window closes itself :/
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Anon, 27 Mar 2013 @ 12:04am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
The window is just just not visible, the program changes that window to visible=false as the user no longer needs to see it. The problem with the user closing it is that the program won't have access to your JManga account which it needs to download the manga.
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ika, 27 Mar 2013 @ 2:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
when typing in id, would I do just the number or like id=137?
If it doesn't work after this, then I'll give up! lol
but thanks for all your help, even though you didn't have to.
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Anon, 27 Mar 2013 @ 3:19am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
Just the number, so in this specific example it would just be 137
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ika, 27 Mar 2013 @ 3:36am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: JManga Content
then I give up! hahaha, I don't know what's wrong, there's error box that pops up most of the time & I don't know how to fix that. anyway, thanks for all of your help
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furrykef, 2 Aug 2014 @ 7:56am

Re:
It doesn't need to be "covered by US copyright" for it to be copyright infringement. The way the Berne Convention works is, if it's copyrighted in one Berne Convention country (of which Japan certainly is one), the copyright is in effect in all of them.
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