Prank Resulting In 2 NFL GMs Talking To Each Other Results In Up To 5 Years Of Prison, $500k Fine
from the it-was-just-a-joke,-guys dept
Insane legal actions over relatively mild pranks are coming fast and furious these days. We just recently discussed the 17 years old high school girl staring down felony charges over a childish year book prank. There have also been several cases of those that fall victim to pranks turning to intellectual property law as a way to hide their gullibility. There's something -- embarrassment perhaps -- that spurs victims into unreasonable legal action once the trap has been sprung.And now we can add to that list the case of Joshua Barber and Nicholas Kaiser, who are looking at up to 5 years in prison and/or a half-a-milliion dollar fine for the crime of getting two NFL general managers to talk to each other on the phone and recording the conversation. Their prank consisted of calling the office of Buffalo Bills GM Buddy Nix, claiming to be Tampa Bay GM Mark Dominik, hanging up, then dialing Dominik. The confused Nix called back using the redial function on his phone (many, many times), and the pranksters finally called Dominik as well, just as Nix called them back, hit the conference button, joined both GMs on the line and recorded the ensuing conversation. It's worth noting that conversation was about as innocuous as it gets. No real embarrassment was to be had from the recording, which was then sold to Deadspin. The result of the prank is far less innocuous.
[The] two Plymouth, Mass. men were charged Wednesday with intentionally intercepting a wire communication and with making a telephone call without disclosing their identity with the intent to annoy or harass the person at the called number. The complaint further states that after the conversation was recorded, Barber and Kaiser sold the unauthorized recording to the website deadspin.com. If convicted, Barber and Kaiser face a maximum penalty of five years in prison, a $500,000 fine or both.And yes, here are your tax dollars at work, with the FBI/DOJ gloating about taking those darn prank callers off the street and ruining their lives with extended jail time and fines. Half a million and half a decade in jail for a prank phone call? Shall I assume The Jerky Boys are currently dropping soap in barred showers, or is the safer assumption that someone in the legal system sees this high-profile prank as a way to further their career?
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Filed Under: buddy nix, doj, fbi, joshua barber, mark dominik, nfl gms, nicholas kaiser, prank calls, wiretapping
Companies: nfl
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Could you please remind our gov't of this? Thanks!
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While that is true in general, it does not apply in this case. There were 3 parties on this call - the 2 GMs, plus the pranksters. And making it illegal or forbidden to record *your own* phone call (whether or not the other party(ies) know it is being recorded) is all sorts of problematic.
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I agree with a comment that said they should receive something something akin to twice what they sold the recording for. Sounds reasonable to me for a first offense, and should (hopefully) teach them a lesson about doing stupid stuff.
However, unlike the stupidity of the felony charges for the yearbook prank, until I see some indication that prosecutors are actually pushing for maximum charges, much less a judge handing them out, this is really a non-issue.
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We don't.
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Is it the recording of the call that's criminal?
What am I missing here?
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So they committed a felony under Florida law.
Under the Federal law, it's more about making a recording of an electronic conversation and then disclosing it to a third-party without the consent of the other party, especially for financial gain, which they did by selling it.
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The reason they might get fried for the prank is this is version of espionage and that gets people very upset.
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I'm guessing this law is one of those that was originally rushed through because "It will allow us to go after aggressive telemarketers and there is no other possible use for this law".
I think they should use the fact that Nix repeatedly used the redial button (a button that launches a a computer script) as evidence that Nix actually hacked their conversation and go after him for CFAA violations.
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I still seem to get the calls though, even with Do Not Call registered.
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Both have laws regarding recording phone conversations.
If state which state?
Could be one, two, or three as they violated 3 state's laws and federal law.
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This is akin to me calling a business, but i miss dialed and the person who answered played the role of the business i was trying to reach and recorded the conversation.
There is no interception, I called the wrong number. This is exactly what happened here. One of the guys redialed the number that the call came in from without validating that it was the correct number.
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Adults see the harm; Timmy only giggles with the 14-year-olds.
NFL managers may well know people in gov't -- besides, known and admired by many as stalwarts of the community, they probably don't even have to make a call demanding action -- so it's particularly not wise to target them.
"17 years old high school girl staring down felony charges over a childish year book prank" -- Well, first change "staring down" to "looking at", cause the former implies having a victory, and she ain't. And yet again, even at the low end figure for direct damages that Timmy calculated with no real basis, that "prank" DID hit felony level.
When "pranks" involve unwilling participants, they become crimes.
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Re: Adults see the harm; Timmy only giggles with the 14-year-olds.
That's pretty much required for the prank to be successful.
Staring down CAN imply victory, but it doesn't have to. Context of the sentence is important, and in his case the use of staring down adequately fits what is happening to her. It's like "staring down the barrel of the gun in my face." nowhere is it implied victory has happened. But that can be easily misconstrued so not a big dealy-o.
While I agree they should be punished, I think $500,000 and/or jail time is quite excessive compared to the harm of the prank.
Justice should be swift. Justice should be effective. Justice should be reasonable.
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Re: Adults see the harm; Timmy only giggles with the 14-year-olds.
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Re: Re: Adults see the harm; Timmy only giggles with the 14-year-olds.
In the exact same way as Charlie Sheen, I fear, which is to say not at all. That OOTB doesn't get...well, anything, is not much a surprise, is it?
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""17 years old high school girl staring down felony charges over a childish year book prank" -- Well, first change "staring down" to "looking at", cause the former implies having a victory, and she ain't. And yet again, even at the low end figure for direct damages that Timmy calculated with no real basis, that "prank" DID hit felony level.
When "pranks" involve unwilling participants, they become crimes."
He is also correct about that. Being unwitting in that case tonally different as the person, and their family can sue the school district over it. Not saying it should ring up federal charges...but then again, that victim's level of feeling humiliated has a huge legal precedent over how the case is handled.
Going into that aspect I should point out that in high school, before anyone knew who I was, I was always picked on for my social awkwardness that always coincides with Asperger's Syndrome (AS for short). It is bad enough for anyone to have that sort of thing happen to them. But imagine carrying an inescapable obsession and worry about how others think of you. With AS, you have that constant worry and obsession. There is no way around it. The literal interpretation of basically everything involved with AS prevents one from seeing things as a joke or sarcasm as easily as others would at that age. We then develop a very irrational fear of being humiliated in front of our peers when we clearly did nothing to deserve what we see as someone punishing us for no reason.
That case with the year book basically could have affected that victim's entire life and cause him to fear humanity to a point of fearing job interviews and socializing in college. Now if a normal human being would shell up for the rest of hios or her natural life after such humiliation...imagine what that could do to someone with Asperger's Syndrome. Those charges are based on how humiliated and psychologically traumatized that student was after seeing his name changed.
As for the recordings. Blue is absolutely right as they are completely illegal in the intended context for which the pranksters were going to use them.
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Re: Adults see the harm; Timmy only giggles with the 14-year-olds.
When posters involve nonsense, they become trolls.
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Re: Re: Adults see the harm; Timmy only giggles with the 14-year-olds.
make up your own insult, I gotta watch roseanne on tv and geraldo on youtube.
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And your condition explains a lot about why you are the way you are, why nobody likes you.
Everyone thinks that you are an idiot
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Re: Adults see the harm; Timmy only giggles with the 14-year-olds.
Blinks...Aren't all pranks done on unwitting and therefore unwilling participants? Let's say I set a whoopee cushion, or I put a pin on the teacher's chair, or I put an electric buzzer in the palm of my hand? Should I be thrown to the ground, tazered and battered by batons wielded by police simply because I gave someone a little shock when we shook hands?
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Re: Re: Adults see the harm; Timmy only giggles with the 14-year-olds.
Your examples do not require illegal means to achieve. Wiretapping is illegal. So is recording a conversation that publicly humiliates an identifiable person or persons without their knowledge and consent. Motor-mouthing is not illegal...nor is crank calling someone as long as the person or persons you cranked stay anonymous if the recording is publicly released.
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Re: Re: Re: Adults see the harm; Timmy only giggles with the 14-year-olds.
Basically, any prank, no matter how small, non-harmful or innocuous, if done on someone unwilling (and since for a prank to work, the victim has to be unknowing and therefore logically cannot consent to it), OOTB said that all pranks are now crimes.
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The original poster misused quote marks. The prank is in the eye of the prankster. Whether the prankee laughs or not is immaterial.
At the same time, a prank that breaks a law is illegal. Whether the prankee laughs or not is immaterial then as well.
Finally, it's not a crime in any way to merely do something to or around someone else against their will. The original poster argues otherwise because he is a narcissist. Which is also why he posts so much nonsense to TD.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Adults see the harm; Timmy only giggles with the 14-year-olds.
Tell that to the traumatized victim OOTB was actually referring too in the yearbook incident. Also that is the same exact thought of a rapist.
"At the same time, a prank that breaks a law is illegal. Whether the prankee laughs or not is immaterial then as well."
The former is quite correct. The latter however does not stop damages from coming in the form of lawsuits from those being pranked...especially when psychological trauma is involved like the yearbook case. Pretexting in the way this NFL prank that occurred is in fact a crime.
"Whether the prankee laughs or not is immaterial."
Once again tell that to the victim if they are psychologically traumatized by the overkill if the overkill occurs. See how far you get. I can tell you right now that saying that is like purposefully pushing someone off a cliff and then saying "it was just a joke" at their funeral. That is a metaphor as to how a victim can get to feeling internally at a psychiatric level.
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Wally...the girl in the yearbook case WASN'T traumatised. Reread the article.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130528/14302423232/high-school-girl-faces-felony-charge s-yearbook-prank.shtml
"Hell, the victim of the prank doesn't even seem to think it's a big deal.
Raigan Mastain said although she wasn't happy about what happened, she also "wasn't devastated."
"I was kind of annoyed. It was stupid, but I wasn't that upset," she said.""
You are failing to read the full article and drawing the wrong conclusion.
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The point is that the prank is in the eye of the beholder..the beholder being the booby of the prank of course.
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Re: Adults see the harm; Timmy only giggles with the 14-year-olds.
Used to be making a Prank Call got you a Fine.At least that is what I remember.And yes the Prank here was a Prank so why should it be a Hard Jail Sentence plus a huge wopping Fine.
If they made Money then take their Money and give them a little Fine.
No harm was done here.
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Re: Re: Adults see the harm; Timmy only giggles with the 14-year-olds.
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Whoops-a-Blue
Now that's a stupid sentence right there.
This poster points out what you missed:
"NFL managers may well know people in gov't -- besides, known and admired by many as stalwarts of the community, they probably don't even have to make a call demanding action -- so it's particularly not wise to target them."
You should read this person's posts more often, ya moron.
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Re: Whoops-a-Blue
"Now that's a stupid sentence right there."
OOTB's Statement:
"When "pranks" involve unwilling participants, they become crimes."
See the quotes? OOTB is referring to the fact that what some people might consider a good prank, may turn out to traumatize a victim severely in the end.
You:
"You should read this person's posts more often, ya moron."
Irony just seems to be your enemy tonight...
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Re: Adults see the harm; Timmy only giggles with the 14-year-olds.
While we're at it, let's also prosecute the executives of four major Hollywood studios that simultaneously used bogus DMCA take down notices to remove a video that embarrassed them, but which they did not own the copyright for. That wasn't a mistake or anomaly. That was a business as usual criminal act and conspiracy.
If prison time is good for a young girl at the tender age of 14, over a prank phone call, then I think a good proportional penalty for these Hollywood studios would be capital punishment of their executives and board.
There. Problem fixed. Everyone happy. I'm glad you agree in overzealous punishment.
Proposed Hollywood ordinance: spitting on sidewalk gets you executed.
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Let's Face It
They just want another notch on their shootin' irons.
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Re: Let's Face It
How do you edit your own comment?
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Re: Let's Face It
> at the facts, or proportional response, or harm done to essentially harmless people.
Oh, wait. You're talking about prosecuting crimes. I thought you were talking about copyright for a second. Nevermind.
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Lets count up the crime here....
Look, I am not saying that the huge fines and large jail time are necessary but they did actually commit a crime or two. Even a a civil level they could easily sued for millions due to their actions if they did any financial harm to those two coaches and the NFL.
So here goes.
During their prank call they were pretexting both of the coaches saying to one that they were the other...That is a crie in of itself. Second; it led to a heated phone conversation between the actual coaches that actually cost the NFL time and money. Then when lawyers got involved....they recorded the conversation after TAPPING INTO A WIRED CONFERENCE CALL...that involves some pretty heavy phone freaking and dialing...it is a crime to do that.
Yeah this is probably a harmless prank to some of you, but this "harmless" prank almost cost these coaches their careers.
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Re: Lets count up the crime here....
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that is the crime here, and it is a serious one..
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Re: Lets count up the crime here....
What if the "pranksters" were the FBI instead? Would that have still been okay? Why? It was a "prank" performed by the FBI. Is it illegal only when the government does it? What if the recording documented an illegal activity and the person making the recording turns it over to the FBI? Surprise, that has already happened and has been judged to be illegal under wiretap laws.
Generally, if it is illegal for someone to regard a telephone conversation (or any conversation) without the permission of the participants, or a proper warrant, merely classifying the act as a "prank" does not make it any more legal, and the proper laws, regardless of whether they are reasonable in this situation, are appropriate and applicable. People and governments have often reclassified their illegal activities as "jokes," "pranks," and other innocuous sounding names all to hide an illegal action. I do not buy it.
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such cheapskates!
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Re: such cheapskates!
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Huh?
One of the victims called them while they were trying to get hold of the second victim.
Then it was discovered when the recording was sold and published.
The crimes, from what I've read, are recording a call without all participants knowing and then selling said recording.
As for spoofing caller ID. They called the offices of the two victims. Just tell the person receiving the call that you have a new phone(number) and there goes the recognition, person receiving the call passes it on to the victim, victim notices a dead line and hits redial.
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It beats doing actual police work
So the rapists and the bankers, the terrorists and the crime lords, the kidnappers and the violent drug dealers, all get a pass -- while the feds go after teenagers, pranksters, harmless hackers and peaceful protesters.
Is it any wonder that respect for "the law" is dropping like a stone?
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Re: It beats doing actual police work
Well if Obama didn't push spending spending so much on frivolous things like personal golf lessons from Tiger Woods the FBI would probably have a budget to work from now wouldn't they?
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Political Correctness
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Up to
That often happens because the scope of the law is wide. It can cover anything from a low end prank to a more malicious act. This one falls somewhere in the middle, especially considering that they sought profit from their acts through selling of the recording.
Up to. Important words you need to learn the meaning of.
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For Comparison
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Christian
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Re: For Comparison
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Most wire tapping laws are state not federal and the most restrictive wire tap laws are state.
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What about the prank call that resulted in suicide
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Re: The prank call that resulted in suicide
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Double standard?
Ummm... Isn't that what the DOJ does pretty much every day? Maybe they should spend 5 years in jail too.
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Double standard? No.
Then it is all legal again.
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