Sony At E3: Look How Unlike Microsoft We Are!
from the no-connection-required dept
It has been no secret that Microsoft's handling of the launch of their Xbox One console has been controversial at best and a complete debacle at worst. As rumors of mandatory internet connections and fees for playing used games made the unsteady transition to reality, dedicated fans of other consoles mobilized to make sure their voices were heard. Most substantial was the fanbase of the Sony Playstation, who made their wishes for a more traditional and open PS4 known. I had mentioned in that post that Sony in particular had a real opportunity on their hands, assuming they were willing to both stick up for their customers and take the issues against Microsoft head-on.
Well, to some extent, that's exactly what they did at this year's E3 convention, going out of their way to point out all the ways in which they are not doing things the Xbox-way.
During their Electronic Entertainment Expo press event, Sony Computer Entertainment of America president and CEO Jack Tretton says its PS4 will not restrict used games, nor will it require an online connection.Now, to be sure, this isn't a completely unambiguous stance in favor of its customers, but credit Sony for doing what many of our commenters thought they wouldn't: seeing an opportunity in sticking up for customers and running with it. Having said that, there are still many questions surrounding whether or not the Playstation platform will simply be agnostic with used games, leaving that decision instead up to the game developers and publishers. It might seem a better thing for Sony to simply say they won't allow the kind of used game pocket-picking that MIcrosoft is codifying, but that might be a bit too much to ask. After all, Sony needs developers for their platform, too. Besides, as long as it isn't Sony acting in an anti-consumer way, developers that might wish to be restrictive on used games can be judged on their own individual merits. In other words, we'll actually get to see what the market impact of anti-consumer behavior on used games is.
Tretton specifically noted the PS4 "won't stop working if you haven't authenticated within 24 hours," a jab at the Xbox One and its requirement to perform online checks of consoles.
And if some of the reaction I've seen thus far is any indication, such as Sony Entertainment now being listed on Wikipedia's list of "burn centers in the United States" after they torched Microsoft at E3, developers might begin rethinking their plans.
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Filed Under: consoles, drm, e3, online connections, ps4, used games, xbox one
Companies: microsoft, sony
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They sure set themselves up well to get millions to buy their console, and then months after doing so, customers get a rude surprise their "featureless" console is now full of those very features the XBox One has.
Developers are not going to "change their ways". There are billions out there to tap into, if we're to trust Gamestop's business model.
Do you really think they'll not try every possible attempt to get those billions as they trample over customers to get it?
You must be new to America. Welcome.
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I mean, common sense dictates why this is a necessity. I'm excited I can finally sell my digital games rather than delete them from my console, losing everything I paid into it when I'm done with it.
Physical and digital can't live together without restrictions. Otherwise, everyone will be selling both, and you can bet that won't go over well with publishers.
"Authorized" retailer means they need access to the gamer's XBox Live account to ensure they don't have a digital copy of the game (and if they do, it gets locked out) while trying to sell their physical copy.
Common sense, yet most of the internet's all "But I can't play my games without an internet connection??!! Lame!!!"
Derp. It's how we gamers, the whole customer-friendly aspect, can have the best of both worlds.
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The thing that pro-MS people don't understand is that the people complaining don't want this ability in the first place. They're being asked to accept a console that assumes you're a pirate and blocks access to what you own, in order to deliver something that's never been necessary. This would be fine if it was 100% digital distribution, or if you could opt out of the ability to use those functions. But, it's not and you can't, and that's where we have a problem.
"Common sense, yet most of the internet's all "But I can't play my games without an internet connection??!! Lame!!!""
So, you're fine with an outage by your ISP, MS's servers or simply moving house causing you to lose access to your entire game collection because you might be trying to play something you've not had prior permission to access? You're OK with being blocked from using any content at all if you live in an area with poor or non-existent connections (just because you're commenting online doesn't mean you have access to a connection usable with your XBox).
Cool. I sure as hell am not, and no other games console is going to add this restriction. So I'm not buying it.
"It's how we gamers, the whole customer-friendly aspect, can have the best of both worlds."
Let me play my physical disc without being spied on. Removing that ability is not the best of any world
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When XBox Live goes down, people are upset. This tells me the internet isn't the problem.
I get people are upset there's an always-on connection required, but the benefit outweighs the non-benefit, in that we can finally sell digital games, an option we don't have now.
And my ISP doesn't have outages that extend 24 hours. It never has, and I'll be damned if people are going to convince me this is a significant problem.
If it was, I'd say they're fighting the wrong battle.
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I've also read about people who may not have internet access for a week sometimes.
Also, 1/3 of the US doesn't even have reliable broadband. Microsoft's solution: get a 360.
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What they and their fanboys seem to be missing is the simple truth - many of those complaining already have. They just want to make it clear that MS are losing customers with their actions.
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Just connect to the internet when yo uwant to sell it, done. If you cant connect, then you cant sell it digitally. Why do I have to have an internet connection to digitally sell my physically purchased good?
If I can't connect *WHY ARE ALL MY GAMES BLOCKED*.
Why do I need to always be online?
There is no benefit to an always on connection for the consumer, it is an option, never a requirement. Not being online shouldn't restrict you from doing things the console was designed to do in the first place.
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I think the RIAA is hiring.
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The new system will block everything whether it needs a connection or not. Your legally purchased physical disc will not play on your legally purchased console because MS is unable to check on you. Does that not strike you as a problem worth discussing?
"the benefit outweighs the non-benefit"
No it doesn't. that's your opinion, not the opinion of those complaining.
"And my ISP doesn't have outages that extend 24 hours."
So, because you're OK this won't affect any of those complaining? Plus, you seem to be ignoring the other concerns people are voicing that have nothing to do with an ISP outage, not least of which is the concept of them having the ability to block you from playing your legally purchased games even if that's not likely to happen (see the reaction to the Amazon Kindle fiasco).
Your personal situation is not the same as many of those complaining, and your opinion is not truth for everyone. Consider that.
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"So, you're fine with an outage by your ISP, MS's servers or simply moving house causing you to lose access to your entire game collection because you might be trying to play something you've not had prior permission to access? You're OK with being blocked from using any content at all if you live in an area with poor or non-existent connections (just because you're commenting online doesn't mean you have access to a connection usable with your XBox)."
I think I will be ok if they require a connection at some point to confirm a transfer has taken place (in regard to physical media I mean) but why should we lose access to something they just confirmed 24 hours ago that we had purchased legitimately? You have to go online at some point and they can do their little check then - so what if I get to play a game I purchased at some point and sold at a later point for a few more days? I can't imagine that is worth the negative press.
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There is no technical reason at all why these two things have to go hand-in-hand. Requiring the device to be online to engage in the sale itself would be sufficient.
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The only reason for the 24 hour check in is that microsoft presumes that since you can install games you will side load them because you are criminal not a consumer. As a result you are being asked to let them dictate when you can use your console, that you paid $500 for, because you can't be trusted.
Steam allows me to be offline as much as I like and even if steam fails I only lose my ability to play games I have on that service not my ability to play games on my hardware. If microsoft service fails you have a $500 paper weight that can't do anything the device you typed this post on already does.
It's utterly amazing to me that you could be so easily spun.
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Kinda like how Sony filed a patent on setting up the sort of restrictions Microsoft ended up implementing with the XBox One, then openly said ‘yeah we’re not gonna do that’ when Microsoft’s plan blew up in their face.
Almost makes you think Sony did it on purpose.
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So why aren't Sony suing Microsoft for infringement?
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My personal policy still stands: Don't buy any Sony product that connects to the Internet and has rewritable firmware.
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I just brought a second-hand PS3 and I'm not willing to buy a new game console for at least 3-5 years...
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Probably over 75% of the games I play on a semi regular basis throughout a year on my PC are over 5 years old. And close to 50% are over 10 years old, a few that can still run are over 15 years old.
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I go for a simpler buying policy myself, that of 'Don't buy any Sony products'.
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With that said, the PS4 currently looks far superior to the XBox in being more consumer friendly and having better hardware as well.
Given Sony's history, I agree you have a point and we should approach with caution to make sure they stay with it. But for the moment I am happier with their stance than I am with Microsoft's and I have money waiting for PS4 launch day as long as they don't change their policies.
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Yep.
What I think is telling is that everyone who cares still knows how bad Sony is.
And yet, Sony is being seen as the hero.
That is how bad Microsoft is handling this. Microsoft has made Sony, with its rootkits, with its disabling of features, and everything else, to look good in the eyes of people who has hated them for years.
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http://youtu.be/kWSIFh8ICaA
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Please don't blame the poor developers for what their publishers demand.
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Actually not true - their incentives are much more skewed towards avoidign obscurity.
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While I'm sure Sony are not actually trustworthy overall, at least they recognise the major problem many are actually having with the XBox announcement. This is definitely one of the major killers, if not the major killer, for me. I'm not buying a console that either won't let me use it if my internet connection is down or becomes useless when MS decide to discontinue the service.
That's more than I can say for MS and their fanboys, who seem to be sticking to ridiculous "solutions" to the problems they themselves have created (ranging from "get a job, loser" (?) to "if you don't like your internet connection, move where there's a better one"). Like the other content industries, they seem overconfident of the value of the product and believe that people will just pay up regardless of the crap they pulling because Halo/the Xbox brand/whatever is so valuable people can't do without it.
I sincerely hnope that they either realise their mistakes before launch proper, or they're in for a very rude awakening in the sales figures. As I've stated before, MS have gone from a guaranteed sale within 18 months to absolutely no sale, ever, in my case. I hope I'm not alone. The sale MS lose won't necessarily translate into a sale for Sony, but at least one side is listening to what people say to some extent.
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The used game thing doesn't bother me as much only because I haven't been able to really buy used PC games in years,though pc games I can often get for five dollars eventually. I don't think I've ever run across a five dollar xbox game, even used. I am angry in spirit though.
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Imagine your dad sold you his car, now imagine if your dad said he would come around once a day to check you haven't messed with the car and if you had he'd take the keys. More imagine he said that if he was unable to come around or if you happened to be out when he came to visit that he would insist you didn't drive the car until he could check it else he'd take the keys. How much do you feel you would own that car?
Microsoft presumes you are going to break the law and is placing restrictions on you for something you've not done. Why the fuck would you want to give people who hold you in such regard money?
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Well, looks like maybe the new management is paying attention to what people have been talking in the last five years. If everyone who has a PS4 rents a couple movies per month, it would quickly offset the subsides on this machine, while sending a lot of data around. Maybe Sony could use a P2P distribution to ease that load on their servers? And maybe, thanks to not being region locked, well finnaly have a convenient way to acquire cheap access to media?
And how about the news that Sony will create apps to integrate the PS4 experience with Android and IOS tablets and Phones?
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lol - putting your rotten eggs in one basket
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Wow. Just wow. He's basically saying 'We don't care about you mere peasants without a net connection. Be happy with the scraps we've already thrown you.'
(Further details here: http://uk.gamespot.com/e3/microsoft-xbox-one-will-be-leading-product-people-love-and-embrace-6409895 /)
I also must agree with those above in the comments. Sony have shown little inclination towards protecting consumers thus far. The stance on used games and always-on at E3 is admirable, but its not carved in stone. And the fact that early indications are that online multiplayer will require PS+ membership is a bad sign of things to come.
Howeve,r if someone held me at gunpoint and asked me to pick Sony or Microsoft right now, I'd probably pick Sony.
As always, vigilance and strong consumer pressure is required here, methinks.
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It has been no secret -- Even I've heard it! Techdirt LATE, as usual.
Anyhoo, as was pointed out elsewhere: Microsoft will still sell a gazillion at $500 for hardware plus "service" and games. It may be a short gazillion, but still plenty. The 14-year-olds who play games won't be as upset as Timmy is here, won't regard always connected or that games can't be re-sold as unusual. It's just the way things are now... You guys are past it. Had your day in the sun, now you're rapidly aging out of the 18-34 year old (physically) category, turning into grumpy geezers. You'll soon be muttering "Back in my day, we had REAL games on DVDs, I tells ya! And we could sell 'em, and trade 'em, in a GEN-U-WINE brick and mortar tradin' post! And we didn't need no new-fangled cameras to play! Wavin' around like a bunch a maniacs, pffft! We kept our hands where they belong, on joysticks!"
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Re: It has been no secret -- Even I've heard it! Techdirt LATE, as usual.
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Re: Re: It has been no secret -- Even I've heard it! Techdirt LATE, as usual.
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Im turning into a grumpy geezer indeed.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: It has been no secret -- Even I've heard it! Techdirt LATE, as usual.
ootb is a lying asshole, unable to address even the most basic identity of the people he's attacking, let alone the actual opinions of those people. Don't encourage him.
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Re: It has been no secret -- Even I've heard it! Techdirt LATE, as usual.
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Re: It has been no secret -- Even I've heard it! Techdirt LATE, as usual.
So is the average console player. The new 14 year olds are playing "app style" games on their smartphones.
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Re: It has been no secret -- Even I've heard it! Techdirt LATE, as usual.
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I honestly thought MS had blown this one
http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/06/xbox-one-pre-order-stock-sold-out-at-amazon-u-s/
Ju st goes to show one should never underestimate the unwashed COD playing masses that apparently have 400$ lying around.
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It's a cheap shot, but I can't resist
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This is meaningless, they could have sold 100 or 100,000 but funny, they're not saying. I get the feeling that if it were an impressive number they would be saying.
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Who will win?
If I had to take a guess: Valve, once steambox comes out.
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NSA !!!!!
Surveillance !!!!!
wont ANYONE think of the children !!!!!
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You can read what you like into comments they make. On this one I'll take it at face value as no "always on" requirement.
Of course I still won't buy Sony since, as was noted above, just because they have that at launch doesn't mean they'll have it six months in. Their track record is abysmal.
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But they also said gamers w/o an internet connection won't be locked out. Overall, it seems PS 3rd Parties can/ will be falling back to the Online Paywalls for Online Multiplayer, like PS3 had.
Either way, I have my Wii U, & I like what Nintendo said at E3:
Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag - on Wii U
Batman: Arkham Origins - on Wii U
Splinter Cell: Blacklist - on Wii U
Watch_Dogs - on Wii U
X (Xenoblade spiritual successor) - sounds like only on Wii U
DKCR: Tropical Freeze - Nintendo Exclusive, on Wii U
Super Mario 3D World - Nintendo Exclusive, on Wii U
Super Smash Bros. - Nintendo Exclusive, on Wii U
Beyanetta 2 - Wii U Exclusive
Sonic Lost World - Nintendo Exclusive, on Wii U
Deus Ex: Human Revolution Director's Cut - (don't know much about this one)
& other games I'm not as interested in.
If the top 4 games look more or less the same on the Wii U, Sony may actually have competition to deal w/.
All the games listed + MarioKart 8 should help Nintendo move some Wii Us. There's also a price drop anticipated before Christmas.
I'm waiting on the new Wii U Zelda that's in development, that wasn't talked about yesterday. I've also read Nintendo may have another Nintendo Direct before E3 ends, w/ more game announcements.
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http://www.denofgeek.com/games/playstation-4/25953/sony-explains-how-to-share-and-trade-ga mes-on-the-ps4
[Which I assume to be legit and official]
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Sony must be having the time of their lives with how easy MS has made it for them to promote the PS4.
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To me, this does not seem like a better thing. Certainly it's a better thing for Sony not to provide the ability for or encourage shutting down used games, but imho they should not be saying "if your game has DRM that restricts used game sales, it's not welcome on the PS3" either. The less controlling they are of the content that runs on their platform, the better I think.
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Sony have a history so I wouldn't trust them.
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I can spare $400 bucks for that.
Whatever you think of Sony, they came out and very clearly presented a video showing you can share physical game discs, no check required, PS+ will give you free games, and it only really matters if you WANT to play online games (another thing I don't care about), and functionally itll still have things like movies and such playable through it.
Alas, if they overhaul the firmware later on, that's their choice, but right now I want to drop money on the people who've said things that support the consumer and hope that they follow through on them.
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The next step
The only way that plan has changed is that I'm not going to give Microsoft a few months. They lost me as a customer when they gave the ability to kill off used games to people like EA. Sony still has a chance, but I'm still going to be sitting on the side lines for a little while.
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I was able to generate some nerd rage when I heard about the restrictions on the new consoles. I've since decided that I don't really care either way. I've already got a "next-gen" game machine, my PC. I'm just going to connect my PC to my TV and be done with consoles.
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xbone sucks
the 360 was hacked and people could look in at you and list goes on for them. idk they really bent you over this year tell me this if your handicap and cant move your house around to use the kinect why should they force something onto you that makes you do that just to play the system? i know a few people that are handicap and systems are some of the only ways they have fun dont get me wrong if they called and asked me to help i would but what about the people who cant? they force you to change your own house to accommodate for the kinect that really you dont even need on the system.
The only reason they want to get rid of used games is so you can not rent games really and it puts more money in their pocket i bet you they will start renting games out on their system when it comes out. this is all they see is how they can get more money.
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xbone sucks
the 360 was hacked and people could look in at you and list goes on for them. idk they really bent you over this year tell me this if your handicap and cant move your house around to use the kinect why should they force something onto you that makes you do that just to play the system? i know a few people that are handicap and systems are some of the only ways they have fun dont get me wrong if they called and asked me to help i would but what about the people who cant? they force you to change your own house to accommodate for the kinect that really you dont even need on the system.
The only reason they want to get rid of used games is so you can not rent games really and it puts more money in their pocket i bet you they will start renting games out on their system when it comes out. this is all they see is how they can get more money.
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possible article of interest
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