NSA Recruiters Get Smacked Down By University Of Wisconsin Students
from the work-for-the-nation's-most-hated-employer! dept
I'm not sure what the NSA recruiters were expecting when they made a recruiting trip to the University of Wisconsin, but I'm sure the following wasn't it. Maybe they thought they wouldn't be challenged. The sort of students looking to work with the NSA would presumably have had a healthy deference to authority drilled into them since an early age. Maybe they thought that any challenges could be waved away with a simple refusal for "security reasons." Maybe they thought the attending instructor would attempt to moderate the discussion.
None of that happened.
The student who transcribed the recording of the recruiters' visit thought there might be a bit more discussion about current events, and how Snowden's actions had affected recruiting and the agency itself. Instead, more time was spent trying to paint the NSA employees as a fun-loving bunch who spy all day before heading out to blow off steam getting drunk, wearing costumes and singing karaoke. (I am not making this up.)
One of the recruiters discussed how they tend to socialize after work, dressing up in costumes and getting drunk (referenced below). I can imagine that also exerts a lot of social pressure and works as a kind of social closure from which it would be difficult to escape.Yes, NSA agents are human beings and will relax like other humans do once off the clock. There's nothing wrong with that, but the recruiters seemed unwilling to be dragged into a discussion of the actual "job," and the repercussions of the work they do. Instead of meeting the questions head on, they both made the rather poor decision to play word games with linguistic students.
Here are few of the highlights.
Student A (female): I have a lifestyle question that you seem to be selling. It sounds more like acolonial expedition. You know the “globe is our playground” is the words you used, the phrasing that you used and you seem to be saying that you can do your work. You can analyze said documents for your so-called customers but then you can go and get drunk and dress up and have fun without thinking of the repercussions of the info you’re analyzing has on the rest of the world. I also want to know what are the qualifications that one needs to become a whistleblower because that sounds like a much more interesting job. And I think the Edward Snowdens and the Bradley Mannings and Julian Assanges of the world will prevail ultimately.
NSA_M: I’m not sure what the –...
Me: The question here is do you actually think about the ramifications of the work that you do, which is deeply problematic, or do you just dress up in costumes and get drunk?
NSA_M: We take it very seriously that when we give info to our policy makers that we do give it to them in the right context so that they can make the best decision with the best info available.…
Student B: Is that what Clapper was doing when he perjured himself in front of Congress? Was he giving accurate information when he said we do not collect any intelligence on the US citizens that it’s only occasionally unintentionally or was he perjuring himself when he made a statement before Congress under oath that he later declared to be erroneous orat least, untruthfulthe least truthful answer? How do you feel personally having a boss whose comfortable perjuring himself in front of Congress?
NSA_F: Our director is not general Clapper.
Student B: General Alexander also lied in front of Congress.
NSA_F: I don’t know about that.
Student B: Probably because access to the Guardian is restricted on the NSA’s computers. I am sure they don’t encourage people like you to actually think about these things.
Me: Right, but you’re here recruiting so you’re selling the organization. I mean I’m less interested in what your specialized role is within in the NSA. I don’t care. The fact is you’re here presenting a public face for the NSA and you’re trying to sell the organization to people that are as young as high schoolers and trying to tell us that this is an attractive option in a context in which we clearly know that the NSA has been telling us complete lies. So, I’m wondering is that a qualification? [ref. to earlier question: "So, this is a job for liars?"]Who knows what song you have to belt out to shake off something like this, but whatever it was, I'm sure recruiters M and F were at least a half-dozens sheets to the wind when they did it. It's tough to find a fiery, angst-unloading track written from the perspective of The Man, so perhaps they settled for a quiet duet of Radiohead's "Fitter, Happier," a song most normal people don't find aspirational.
NSA_F: I don’t believe the NSA is telling complete lies. And I do believe that you know, people can, you can read a lot of different things that are portrayed as fact and that doesn’t make them fact just because they’re in newspapers.
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Filed Under: free speech, jobs, nsa, nsa surveillance, recruiters, wisconsin
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Meanwhile in Australia the solar panel troll darryl crawled out of his toilet home and beat his chest in righteous moral fury. Someday Australia would reinstate spying and he would once again be declared to have above Australian average intelligence.
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On the Other Hand
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Re: On the Other Hand
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Spooks are liars. Here's Schmidt of Google LYING:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/23/schmidt_on_colbert/
If you've ever seen real live spooks -- not just the kids they hire to snoop low-level -- they're not gregarious party animals, but creepy: either rat-face weaseals or big melon heads like Hayden,
Schmidt is such a stereotype that lacks only silver skull symbols on his jacket collar. You just know he has an actual SS uniform in his closet.
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Re: Spooks are liars. Here's Schmidt of Google LYING:
I think you are on to something.
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Re: Spooks are liars. Here's Schmidt of Google LYING:
Second, spooks come in all shapes and sizes, perhaps the most dangerous ones are those who don't look the part.
Third, do you ever notice that NOBODY ever agrees with you, except for the other trolls?
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Re: Re: Spooks are liars. Here's Schmidt of Google LYING:
thats called self perpetuation.
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Re: Re: Re: Spooks are liars. Here's Schmidt of Google LYING:
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Re: Re: Spooks are liars. Here's Schmidt of Google LYING:
Actually, it's not true that nobody ever agrees with him but the other trolls. It happens once in a while, like a lunar eclipse or a planetary alignment.
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Re: Spooks are liars. Here's Schmidt of Google LYING:
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Re: Spooks are liars. Here's Schmidt of Google LYING:
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Someday they'll learn the hard way that there is no honor among immoral crooks and liars, no matter what their attire nor the emblem they wear.
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Re: Live with Themselves
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The NSA probably IS just an information-gathering organization. They're not the CIA, they're not the military.
They're gathering what the Administration(s) told them to gather. This is at the feet of the Executive Branch... Bush and Obama.
The NSA is violating our rights, but at who's behest?.
People like to blame the POTUS for a lot of ills, many of which aren't things that office can control. This, though, is entirely in the POTUS' hands. One of them started it, and each successive POTUS has gone along or expanded it.
The NSA isn't the Big Bad here, they're just the minions.
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Re: Re: Re: Live with Themselves
See here for reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_office_of_the_President_of_the_United_States#Oath_mishaps.
An illegal order does not make anything the NSA did now legal. They SHOULD know better. No agency of the US Government should be exempt from supporting the Constitution or any laws in support of the Constitution. The President, both Houses of Congress and all law enforcement agencies are specifically bound to not change the Constitution. Only the people of the United States by a two thirds majority vote may change the Constitution. Unless so changed, ALL agencies of all of the governments in the United States must abide by the Constitution.
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Re: Re: Re: Live with Themselves
True, but you say this as if it minimizes the role of the NSA. Information gathering is even more powerful and dangerous than the operational entities.
The NSA certainly is a big bad here. Given that they regularly hide information from, and lie to, the people who are theoretically supervising them, it's disingenuous to describe them as simply being "minions".
That said, there isn't only one bad actor here. In my opinion, the NSA is being evil and we shouldn't let them off the hook for that. But everyone else involved with this (the executive, legislative, and judicial branches) are being evil as well. All of their feet should be in the fire.
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Re: Re: Re: Live with Themselves
He was singing a very different tune before the elections. Do you honestly think he changed it all by himself?
IMHO, I don't think there is a single identifiable Big Bad (Brother), just the collective and self-reinforcing corruption of formerly (and some possibly still) well-meaning people by the toxic proximity of too much power.
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Re: Live with Themselves
There are certain things that the other branches of government to do to get in the way of POTUS. Unless you can cite one, then this all rests on Obama. The fact that Bush started it is not a sufficient excuse.
Don't try to make up excuses for Obama acting like any other middle aged white guy.
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Re: Re: Live with Themselves
Not quite. If you're looking for a place for the buck to stop, it would more properly be in Congress. It's Congress that authorized the existence of the court, it's Congress that created the laws permitting all of this misbehavior, and it's Congress that is charged with oversight.
You're right insofar as this stuff requires the complicity of the judicial and executive branches as well -- any of the three branches can bring this to an end -- but the whole thing is Congressional at its core.
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Re: Re: Re: Live with Themselves
But the Congressman who wrote the bill says this was not his intention. And certainly, the Patriot Act does not REQUIRE the NSA to spy on everyone. It takes a special reading of the bill and the Constitution to even attempt to justify it.
So most of the blame goes to the executive branch, which is actually doing the spying.
Think of it this way. If tomorrow Obama used the War Powers Act to bomb France for no reason, would you blame Congress for passing the War Powers Act which allows him to do this under US law, or would you blame Obama?
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I would blame both, just as I do with this NSA stuff.
The bottom line is that, secret interpretations or not, this is law that was written and passed by Congress, gets regularly renewed by Congress, and is Congress' responsibility.
That some Congressmen are saying that they never intended the law to be used this way fails on three counts: first, that when the laws were being debated, everyone was explicitly warned that this sort of thing would happen -- so intended or not, they knew. Second, the keep renewing it. Third, they could correct this misuse by correcting the law -- which is something that they don't appear interested in doing.
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Re: spies
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Awesome
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Where Have I Seen This Before?.. Hmm...
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Re: Where Have I Seen This Before?.. Hmm...
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Don't see why, it worked pretty good for Hoover.
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Once again...
Interviewee #1: No, never!
Interviewee #2: Yes, when I think it is necessary.
NSA interviewer: #1, you are just the person we want. #2, sorry, but we can't use you - you are just too honest!
Not exactly what I previously posted, but pretty much what I meant... :-)
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While Julian Assange and Bradley Manning handled it the wrong way, I think that Edward Snowden may have just given the American People someone to stand behind and to fight for.
If President Obama, the U.S. Congress and the liberal establishment in this country were smart (and that includes the liberal media), they would hand Snowden a presidential pardon and reward him for revealing to the public about this secret spying program.
As it stands now, the only thing that President Obama, the Democrats and their liberal supporters are doing is turning Snowden into a martyr for a cause that every American believes in.
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Let us be very clear.
This spying is not a Democrat or Republican thing.
It is not a Liberal or Conservative thing.
It is the result of terrified people giving power without question to the Government and not bothering to trust be verify that they are still acting in our best interests.
This is pouring money into the pockets of contributors offering snake oil fixes to imagined problems.
This is why Freedom has a price, and people have been unwilling to hold up their portion to be vigilant and speak out when they see things being done wrong in their name.
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Admittedly I would be driven mad to do this if I had to keep a secret.
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This is what they are afraid of
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LOVE the ending!
"Meanwhile, let's let everyone hear more about karaoke"
Seriously!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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