Way To Go Florida: Governor Signs Law That Accidentally Bans All Computers & Smartphones
from the it's-always-florida dept
They must put something in the water in Florida. The latest is that the state has effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones. Yes, all of them. Apparently there was a hastily passed law, CS/HB 155: Prohibition of Electronic Gambling Devices, which as you might guess, is supposed to be about banning electronic gambling devices. Apparently, the bill was written quickly in response to a political controversy:In April Florida Governor Rick Scott approved a ban on slot machines and Internet cafes after a charity tied to Lt. Governor Jennifer Carroll was shut down on suspicion of being an Internet gambling front -- forcing Carroll, who had consulted with the charity, to resign.But, here's the problem. The bill's definitions section is a complete mess. You can see the full text (pdf) which contains cross outs and additions, but what comes out in the end is the following:
As used in this chapter, the term "slot machine or device" means any machine or device or system or network of devices... that is adapted for use in such a way that, upon activation... such device or system is directly or indirectly caused to operate or may be operated and if the user, whether by application of skill or by reason of any element of chance or any other outcome unpredictable by the user him or her, may....Note that I took out chunks of that definition to try to make it more readable and it's still a mess. The short version is that a slot machine or device is any machine or device by which someone can play a game of chance. That's any device with a web browser connected to the internet. Any one.(a) Receive or become entitled to receive any piece of money, credit, allowance, or thing of value, or any check, slug, token, or memorandum, whether of value or otherwise, which may be exchanged for any money, credit, allowance, or thing of value or which may be given in trade; or
(b) Secure additional chances or rights to use such machine, apparatus, or device, even though the device or system may be available for free play or, in addition to any element of chance or unpredictable outcome of such operation, may also sell, deliver, or present some merchandise, indication of weight, entertainment, or other thing of value. The term “slot machine or device” includes, but is not limited to, devices regulated as slot machines pursuant to chapter 551.
Almost immediately, around 1,000 internet cafes shut down, and now one of them, called Incredible Investments, is suing, seeking declaratory relief on a number of issues related to the law, which shut down their cafe. They go through one by one the problems with the law (and they are many), including the definition of the slot machine:
The definition of “slot machine or device” now contained in Fla. Stat. § 849.16, as amended, fails to adequately describe the prohibited machine or device such that a person of common understanding cannot know what is forbidden.There's a lot more in the actual lawsuit (embedded below). Can we just have lawmakers recognize, once and for all, that they're really bad at legislating technology?
[....] As amended, Section 849.16, Florida Statutes includes a presumption that any device, system, or network like the Plaintiff’s computers that displays images of games of chance is an illegal slot machine.
The newly-enacted section 849.16(3), Florida Statutes, creates an evidentiary presumption that relieves the State of Florida of its burden of persuasion beyond a reasonable doubt of every essential element of a crime
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: bans, computers, florida, gambling, gambling devices
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinball#Pinball_and_gambling
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
In relation to Rikuo's comment that it was a game of chance? Well, I think it does have relevance.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Being there are already too many Powerball / Megamillion winners coming from Florida.
Now that they can't play, chances are better for the rest of us.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
No, they're really not.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Game of Chance
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Game of Chance
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Dang it. There go my weekly sessions of Russian Roulette.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
And any adult person of normal understanding will NOT be in doubt over what's a gambling device: it's only don't-intend-to-understand kids and legalistic weenies who keep at textual analysis and semantics until entirely confused.
Besides that, laws are statements of morality, and gambling is just plain stupid, should be kept suppressed. Purpose of gambling is to get unearned money; purpose of the gambling sites, especially.
And no, I'm not upset at "internet cafes" being shut down. Dens of vice and stupidity: not only doesn't affect me, but we're all better off without them, whether you want to be or not. -- There's a reason that vices are prohibited, runs constant through all times and all cultures: when you let dolts run wild, it's NEVER to the general good.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
In Cathy's world only things that Cathy approves of are permitted and the rest of us can go hang. She's an idiot who thinks of the General Good as being a world that feels like an All-American 1950s washing powder commercial. What she doesn't seem to realise is that such a world never existed and it never will.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
Let's assume you are correct.
What do you think will stand in court? Your "obvious" interpretation of what a gambling device is, or the definition codified into law?
If you picked the second option, please go read the definition presented, and the problem should become obvious.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
Of course you're too much of a fucking moron to pick up on that so I don't know why I'm bothering to reply at all. Go play Bathtub Boating with a plugged-in toaster.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
You also wouldnt be able to drive a car, boat or plane since theres a chance you might actually get in a car accident. Die, thereby losing all your money.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
You are anti copyright to the point where you feel like people should rent/lease all of their software.
How does renting hardware suddenly make it dens of vice and stupidity?
Hell at least they are up front that you don't own the hardware there.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
"I can't think of any way to insert a stupid attack on Google like I did all day yesterday, so instead I'll attack the business I think is being defended"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
Believe me, we've noticed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
I vote PaulT here for the best so far!!!! :)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
You think that laws do not need to be written clearly because everyone should just understand what was meant.
Yet we have the Aaron Swartz result from seeing just how far a poorly written law can be stretched. But again, you also seem to think that is just fine. But then that is consistent with a view that no real judicial oversight or due process is needed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
AKA lawyers and legislators.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
That's only your opinion, Blue and it's obviously not the majority view. Otherwise we wouldn't have Las Vegas, Atlantic City or 44 (give or take) states with lotteries. Opinion polls are showing acceptance of online gambling running around 50%.
Just like Jerry Farwell, your opinions are not the majority nor are they what our current society has deemed as moral.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
Comedy gold!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: WRONG. Has not "effectively banned all computers, tablets and smartphones".
> to the general good.
Well said, Comrade Blue!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Small correction
Should really be this:
"Can we just have lawmakers recognize, once and for all, that they're really bad at legislating?"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Small correction
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Small correction
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Small correction
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Small correction
"Can we just not have lawmakers"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Rick Scott
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Rick Scott
Somebody complained about something - quick do something, function and reason optional!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Email.
Skype.
Airline Tickets.
General information.
Not a single person was gambling. I did see one person playing the Solitaire game that comes with Windows while having a Skype call, but there was obviously no money in that.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
And buying airline tickets to escape their bookies.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
A potential upside!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Device for playing a game of chance
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
They have just banned voting.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
some confusion in the media
It looks to me, so far, that the target of the bill were "internet sweepstakes cafés" which are not at all the same as your standard internet café although some media reports use the latter terminology.
I am looking in to what has happened since.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
poor chucky cheese's
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: poor chucky cheese's
The law appears to rely on the ability of the user of the device to be able to judge the outcome. An inept person pressing the wrong button on a vending machine is in violation.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: poor chucky cheese's
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: poor chucky cheese's
Yeah, you BETTER not put the IPod on "shuffle"! No unpredictable entertainment allowed!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: poor chucky cheese's
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/02/3481991/video-arcades-sue-dave-busters.html#storylink=cpy
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Did they shut down the World of Warcraft access to Florida yet? How about Wifi, which offers a random chance at downloading things of value or entertainment, and which are by necessity part of a network?
Heck, any computer used to purchase a flight to Florida is a gamble, since you don't know until you show up at the gate if you are on the no-fly list.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
If it was illegal before, why the need for this law?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The nature of legislatures
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Oil.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Remember! Our laws are written by our "representatives"!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Over broad law by idiots
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I WONDER
Your Cut' seems abit unclear to me..
BUT, can the owner/operator have notice of the outcome?
Wouldnt that be illegal?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
1. Floridian legislation and elections
2. PRISM, TSA security, War, Training for law-enforcement etc.
3. Political donations
4. Rock Paper Scissors
5. Coin Flipping
6. Drawing straws
7. Spin the bottle
8. The Stock, Bond, Derivative, Money, Insurance and Foreign Exchange Markets
9. Home ownership and/or financial leverage
10. Games and Sports that use dice, spindles or imperfect spheres (balls)
11. Tic Tac Toe
12. Mineral and Space exploration
13. Superstition (see what I did with the number 13?)
14. The Patent System
15. Religion
16. Sexual Relations
17. Litigation
18. Quantum Mechanics
19. Waiting ages for a bus, only for 2 to come along at once
20. Having the luck of the Irish
21. Random Walks, Probability and Statistical distributions
22. Forecasting, estimating, budgeting and planning
23. Venture Capital & Corporate Finance
24. Elective surgery
25. An Arts degree
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
You for Lizard Spock!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Florida just outlawed the universe itself.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
this is funny but
b) the typical magical thinking evidenced on this site about laws that sound bad is in full flower here. Laws don't magically arrest and prosecute people just because they sound as if they could. Even though you might construe computers as being gambling devices because they are capable of running gambling software, what would be outrageous is police arresting and attorneys general prosecuting people using ordinary computers under the bad wording of this statute--NOT the bad wording itself. The bad wording does not necessarily or even usually produce the conceptually possible bad result based on the bad wording. This is one reason we have judges--they typically don't let cases move forward that fall outside reasonable interpretations of the law (and yes, this happened in all the criminal CFAA cases too, but let's leave those alone for now).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: this is funny but
Relying on prosecutorial discretion is a really, really bad idea. Just ask the kid who got bailed out on $500,000 for a stupid rant on Facebook, or Aaron, or Weev, or pretty much anybody that the government has decided holds views that are objectionable or contrary to good order and discipline within the state.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Seriously?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Positive Comment
nice understanding yet. Thanks!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]