Italian Prosecutor Wants To Bring Criminal Charges Against Facebook For Not Stopping A Suicide
from the not-this-again dept
You may recall a few years ago, an absolutely ridiculous case in Italy, in which a criminal complaint was filed against Google executives, because some bratty kids made fun of a boy with Down's Syndrome and posted the video to Google Video. Eventually, some of the execs were found guilty. It looks like there may be a repeat of this, as an Italian prosecutor is talking about bringing criminal charges against Facebook because it failed to remove some mean messages that some believe led a teenaged girl to commit suicide."In the case of Carolina, it appears some of her friends, some of her relatives, asked for the removal of some of this strong content, and it wasn't removed -- and this played a role in her decision to commit suicide," he said.This is ridiculous on multiple levels. As we dealt with back in the Lori Drew case, when you go around blaming people with criminal charges after someone commits suicide, you're encouraging more suicide, because you're telling people that if they kill themselves, there will suddenly be real punishment for those who bullied them. But the decision to commit suicide is an individual's choice. This is not to defend bullying, but you open up a very dangerous path when you start suggesting criminal charges against someone based on someone else's actions.
But, the even bigger issue is the focus on Facebook -- which was merely the service being used for communication. If the harassment of the teen had come via the telephone, would Italian prosecutors be looking to bring criminal charges against Telecom Italia? If the harassment had happened on the playground, would the prosecutors be looking to bring criminal charges against the school? Of course not. But, for whatever reason, in this digital era, people seem to think it makes sense to blame the technology service that someone used.
This is why we think secondary liability protections like Section 230 of the CDA are so important. This is why we think it's horrifically dangerous that here in the US, state attorneys general are looking to obliterate such secondary liability protection -- allowing them to file similarly ridiculous lawsuits against third party service providers.
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Filed Under: italy, secondary liability, suicide
Companies: facebook, google
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Why stop there?
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Italian prosecutors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ayrton_Senna
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If the messages in question were on her facebook page, could she not simply delete them?
And if they were on other people's pages, could she simply have blocked and/or not gone to the pages containing them?
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Regardless, I don't think that it would change the case if she didn't even have a Facebook account.
If my friends I posted anywhere "That One Guy is so fat and ugly I can't stand the smell" and hundreds of others, and you had to hear about directly it from your friends and family after they read it, and indirectly from your co-workers and classmates who decided to follow the same degrading lines when they spotted you, whether or not your have access to where I posted is fairly moot, imo."
And when you say, "simply do no go to the pages", it seems you're not understanding the problem. The problems is when people who are not your close friends and family go there, and then decided to harrass you in person. Of course you want the material removed and "not going to the pages" is not a solution.
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The problem is with the people doing the harassing. Charging Facebook (or any other such service) with a crime is not the solution. It just creates a new problem while doing nothing about the old one.
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I did in fact say the problem is when people are harrassing, even if we were talking about different aspects of the problem.
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NO, was because Google didn't take it down AFTER complaints!
In line with my new policy of one point per post, I'll now read further and see if you've ceased omitting crucial facts...
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Re: NO, was because Google didn't take it down AFTER complaints!
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Re: NO, was because Google didn't take it down AFTER complaints!
Thank you.
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Re: NO, was because Google didn't take it down AFTER complaints!
Nope, still failing to see why Google, Inc. should take something down that was posted on Facebook, a service in which they have neither ownership or control.
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Why should kids not be allowed to use the internet just becasue if a few idiots that think it is funny to bully others.
Attack the bullies , make them pay.
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I don't run to the cops for much of anything, mostly because the cops are useless for anything that isn't paying into their pockets or boosting their egos. Cops, generally, are the biggest bullies around.
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Civic responsibility: "failed to remove some mean messages".
A BUSINESS does not escape regulation or responsibility simply by calling itself a "platform", NOR does it escape even with statute, common law still obtains. -- And the very existence and wording of Section 230 could as easily have been bought by corporations as any other law, but of course when it's to advantage of your precious, why statute is pure and good.
What is it you object to about businesses being forced to take SOME reasonable responsibility for what's posted? It's no skin of your nose, is it? If your precious Google or Facebook are forced to spend a little money on monitoring the sites they get BILLIONS from?
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Re: Civic responsibility: "failed to remove some mean messages".
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Re: Civic responsibility: "failed to remove some mean messages".
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Re: Civic responsibility: "failed to remove some mean messages".
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Re: Re: Civic responsibility: "failed to remove some mean messages".
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Re: Civic responsibility: "failed to remove some mean messages".
Next time there's a car accident, we go after the manufacturer of the car.
Next time there's a gun crime, we go after the gun manufacturer.
Your day-in day-out regurgitation of the same old horse shit has GOT to have everyone around you ripping their hair out.
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Re: Civic responsibility: "failed to remove some mean messages".
Let's start removing your mean messages.
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I'm sure this would not have happened in the UK
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No liability does not mean you have to ignore requests
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Re: No liability does not mean you have to ignore requests
...then you'll get all uselessly mad at the phone company. The phone company, despite being actually regulated (unlike, day, Facebook), is not required to give you a new phone number in these cases. If they don't give you one, you have no basis to sue them.
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Re: No liability does not mean you have to ignore requests
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jump already
This nsa spy world we live in is so unhappy for many and unhopeful and all full a depressions that your actually doing dmaage to people by that way and traina thought...
faceplant who uses that spyware any more....heck what is g+...everyone is moving back off those things....
italy lected a fucking kiddy didler....why not look at your other politicans ya bunch a sickos beofre ya bother pestering someone else...
OH and i we all wrote were gonna kill oursleves jsut what the fuck are you gonna do , no really hire 1 billion cops to go to everyones house....
with 400 billion a year the usa nor facebook can afford to spend any money expect on spying ok....no really sorry but they pulled fbi off missing kids cases and you expect yankies to give a fuck?
REALLY italy needs a slap to wake the fuck up
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In order for these bullying messages to work, the suicide victim has to, you know, make the choice to commit suicide. It's all down to her. As long as the suidicde victim doesn't commit the deed or alter her lifestyle in any way, the bullying messages aren't harmful to her.
Anthrax on the other hand, is a harmful substance in and of itself. Of course any packages containing it should be stopped.
Oh and nice try AJ at trying to hide. Just couldn't help it with that very badly hidden attempt to make a dig at our so called "censorship", could you?
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And your attempt at dodging logic with the usual attempt at semantical misdirection is quite the epic fail.
The analogy is based on the act of harm, not the scale of its lethalness.
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Interesting reasoning. It was my understanding that she committed suicide, meaning SHE made herself dead. That is undoubtedly a tragedy, and people may indeed have been enormous assholes to her, but those words did not cause her death. I know that because I experienced bullying myself, and verbal abuse in certain contexts, and nothing anyone said to me, including the verbage this girl had to endure, would EVER make me kill myself. I was raised to understand words have no power beyond what I give them. So, no, the words didn't kill her.
"And your attempt at dodging logic with the usual attempt at semantical misdirection is quite the epic fail."
Hey, you made the comparison, champ, not me. And when arguing against someone's semantics, you should probably spell shit correctly....
"The analogy is based on the act of harm, not the scale of its lethalness."
Oh, no, I got that part. The problem with your analogy is that anthrax directly harms. Words do not.
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It's not the postman's job to look at the letters he carries to see if they are mean letters that may drive someone to suicide. Facebook should not be looking at private messages any more than the post office should be opening your mail. And public messages are public, so the police can take proper action against the writer if they feel it is warranted.
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"Services are what make content possible and available, since the days of radio, television and the internet."
https://twitter.com/julianlives/status/362438322716545025
Facebook is the service, and without it, this content wouldn't have been possible or available, so Facebook should be held responsible for it.
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IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
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Try the phone companies provide the service therefore they are responsible for the contents of all phone calls. This makes as much sense as blaming Facebook for content.
There is a huge difference between a service, which allows users to provide the content without supervision, and TV and Radio where someone decides what content to broadcast.
Just because Facebook provides the servers and software that allows users to store and retrieve data does not makethem resposible for the contents that users post.
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I couldn't disagree more. I assert the opposite -- Facebook should not be held responsible for it. The people actually doing the obnoxious things should.
I think it is a bad idea to sanitize the internet to fit the sensibilities of the weakest among us. I don't want to live in a Disney world that has been made safe for infants and the mentally ill. I want to live in the real world.
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Sick.
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Sick
Bullies are the lowest life form and need to be punished , i agree Google or Youtube should not be target, the bullies should be. 12 month courses with classes three times a week teaching bullies what it feel like to be bullied and teaching them how to not bully and deal with bullies to support those being bullied would be a much better use of their free time than posting silly comments on youtube.
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Re: Sick
The author has nothing to apologize for, because he was not addressing the same issue you are trying to cite. They are talking about the issue of blaming the tool for the acts of others.
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Bear the Responsibility For Free Speech
Everyone is responsible for their words spoken against someone else whether they have justification or not for what they say. When a social network allows this free speech to go on without safeguards in place that limit what other's may not be taking responsibility for, then that social network must bear the responsibility for what it has allowed especially when tragedies like this could possibly have been prevented in my opinion.
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Re: Bear the Responsibility For Free Speech
I do love the about face in your post though, first you say people are responsible for their own actions, then you turn around and say that facebook is also supposed to be responsible for their users' actions just in case those actually responsible aren't being punished enough. Doesn't matter who gets punished, as long as someone gets the blame eh?
Thing is though, the only ways sites like facebook, youtube and other sites that host user submitted content are able to exist is because they aren't held responsible for the actions of their users. If that were not the case, they would either shut down entirely less they be sued into oblivion, or would have to personally clear each and every post/submission, which would not only slow the sites to a crawl, but a ton of otherwise harmless content would also be nixed, just in case it might end up offending someone.
Put plainly, free speech with limits like you suggest, like not being allowed to offend anyone, is not free speech at all.
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Are you fucken serious? Do you read yourself before you post this shit.
And before everyone jumps up and down read the sentence.
Would not seeing people not punished be more demoralising?
And are you really suggesting that people commit suicide to punish others?
And what the fuck does "blaming with criminal charges" mean?
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