President Obama Says He Had No Idea His Own NSA Was Spying On Angela Merkel
from the that-seems-like-a-problem dept
So, last week, there was the report that German Chancellor Angela Merkel had found out about the US NSA spying on her mobile phone and had made an angry call to President Obama. As we noted, US officials made perhaps the weakest response ever, insisting that they weren't monitoring her phone today and promising that they wouldn't monitor it in the future -- but absolutely refusing to comment on whether or not the NSA had done so in the past. Of course, that just called much more attention to the obvious implication that they had -- and it took just a couple days before Spiegel revealed the details. Not only had the NSA been monitoring Merkel's mobile phone, but they'd been doing it for over a decade, since before she was in power:There are strong indications that it was the SCS that targeted the cell phone of Chancellor Angela Merkel. This is suggested by a document that apparently comes from an NSA database in which the agency records its targets. This document, which SPIEGEL has seen, is what set the cell phone scandal in motion.Spiegel has a lot more, including some revealing information about how the NSA uses the US embassy in Berlin to intercept all kinds of communications.
The document contains Merkel's cell phone number. An inquiry to her team revealed that it is the number the chancellor uses mainly to communicate with party members, ministers and confidants, often by text message. The number is, in the language of the NSA, a "Selector Value." The next two fields determine the format ("raw phone number") and the "Subscriber," identified as "GE Chancellor Merkel."
[....] The time stamp is noteworthy. The order was transferred to the "National Sigint Requirements List," the list of national intelligence targets, in 2002. That was the year Germany held closely watched parliamentary elections and Merkel battled Edmund Stoiber of Bavaria's Christian Social Union to become the conservatives' chancellor candidate. It was also the year the Iraq crisis began heating up. The document also lists status: "A" for active. This status was apparently valid a few weeks before President Obama's Berlin visit in June 2013.
But then there's this incredible claim: President Obama insists he had no idea about it when he spoke to Merkel:
Merkel spoke with Obama on Wednesday afternoon, calling him from her secure landline in her Chancellery office. Both spoke English. According to the Chancellery, the president said that he had known nothing of possible monitoring, otherwise he would have stopped it. Obama also expressed his deepest regrets and apologized.Now, remember, this is the very same President Obama, who just a couple months ago claimed that every time more Snowden news broke, it would be the first he'd heard about some of these programs, and he'd have to go ask the NSA what they were really doing. Could this be one of those situations? It seems almost impossible to believe that the NSA would be spying on the head of state of one of our closest allies without the President being aware. As the Spiegel report notes, those kinds of orders would have to be renewed with approval from the top:
Among the politically decisive questions is whether the spying was authorized from the top: from the US president. If the data is accurate, the operation was authorized under former President George W. Bush and his NSA chief, Michael Hayden. But it would have had to be repeatedly approved, including after Obama took office and up to the present time. Is it conceivable that the NSA made the German chancellor a surveillance target without the president's knowledge?However, after trying to avoid the question, over the weekend, the NSA admitted that Keith Alexander had never briefed the President about spying on Merkel (though, it's possible he heard about it from others).
This makes it sound, again, like the NSA has gone rogue. How can President Obama seriously allow Keith Alexander and James Clapper to remain in charge when they've just made him look like a complete fool, supposedly totally unaware of what his own intelligence apparatus is up to -- especially when it concerns programs that, once revealed, can have a serious negative impact on a variety of diplomatic fronts?
And for what benefit? The Spiegel report makes it clear that the NSA saw little value in spying on Merkel. They just did it because... reasons.
Former NSA employee Thomas Drake does not see this as a contradiction. "After the attacks of September 11, 2001, Germany became intelligence target number one in Europe," he says. The US government did not trust Germany, because some of the Sept. 11 suicide pilots had lived in Hamburg. Evidence suggests that the NSA recorded Merkel once and then became intoxicated with success, says Drake. "It has always been the NSA's motto to conduct as much surveillance as possible," he adds.The fact that President Obama hasn't yet fired Alexander in particular is fairly incredible, given this latest revelation.
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Filed Under: angela merkel, barack obama, germany, keith alexander, nsa, nsa surveillance
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Shall we go back to that "foxes looking after the hennery/pen" concept? Like Mr Greenspan or Mr Bernanke taking care of the finances and having strong ties to Wall Street thus sparking an economic crisis?
I'll take the short reply: because... reasons.
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The dog goes woof, the cat goes meow...but...
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Re: The dog goes woof, the cat goes meow...but...
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Obama sure isn't a Nixon
Nixon knew about all of the schemes he did along with a few that weren't going his way and he was obsessed with domestic spying.
But we have a president that's so blatantly corrupt and inept that he admits that he doesn't know what's going on and wants to maintain plausible deniability?
That's just mind boggling...
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Re: Obama sure isn't a Nixon
The only reason Nixon got in trouble is because he got caught cheating and the Congress was more willing to do something about it.
These pansies in Congress won't do a damn thing.
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Re: Obama sure isn't a Nixon
Plus, it gives Obama an active scapegoated pair to fire when this explodes, as it inevitably will.
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Re: Re: Obama sure isn't a Nixon
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Re: Re: Re: Obama sure isn't a Nixon
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Re: Obama sure isn't a Nixon
All in all, same political pratices as the oposition, better social initiatives.
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Re: Re: Obama sure isn't a Nixon
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There's plausible deniability...
'I had no idea one of the US spying agencies was tapping the communications of a foreign head of state.'
He's either incompetent or corrupt, blind to what his own government agencies are doing, or complicit in their actions and lying about it, and honestly I'm not sure which is more likely at this point.
The only even semi-decent explanation, that wouldn't lay the blame entirely at his feet, would be if the NSA truly didn't think they needed permission to spy on such a target, one that would have pretty massive diplomatic repercussions if they were caught, and if that's the case he'd better get to gutting the agency, soon, and putting those responsible(especially those in charge of the agency) behind bars, as they clearly see themselves as above the laws, national interests of the country, and even the president.
At this point anything less is pretty much a flat out admission that he either agrees with their actions, or at the very least doesn't disagree with them enough to actually put a stop to them.
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Re: There's plausible deniability...
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Over a decade
Sorry I guess this is not really a revelation.
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Now every president claims 'plausible deniability' -- no matter how implausible it is.
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Obama goes "Okay, fine, you can do this stuff, but if it gets out, I know nothing, got it?"
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"What Buck? I haven't seen any bucks around here. I do not know of any bucks. But I am very disappointed at the revelation that there is a buck."
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When did we forget that you can tell a politician is lying when you see his lips moving.
It would be nice if he remembered that he is in charge and can put a stop to these things. Just because it has been done for a while doesn't mean it is set in stone and unstoppable.
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To be fair, he has more than delivered on that promise, his administration and the agencies under him haven't even tried to hide the fact that they consider themselves above such petty things as 'rules' and 'laws'.
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Ahh, I remember him, the anti-Iraq war guy. He insisted Germany not invade Iraq without a UN security council mandate. A policy popular in Germany so he was doing well in the polls.
He wasn't popular with Bush, didn't win the election. He did badly in debates, always on the back foot.
I can't prove anything, but I can think it.
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I'm not sure why this is all that incredible. Obama doesn't hold anyone accountable for anything, unless he is blaming Bush and the Republicans for his latest screw-up. He believes he can just campaign his way through every problem, and that is easier than admitting he made a bad decision to keep incompetent people on the job.
Besides, if he fired someone, the government would get smaller and he doesn't want that either.
So yeah, not that incredible. Par for the course really.
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If it works, it works. He has a mass of sheeple following him and this is the usual outcome of not being held accountable.
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The real problem here...
I can imagine that the NSA / CIA / FBI / Homeland and the like all monitor all sorts of things, and they don't call up Obama every morning to give him a laundry list of what they do.
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Re: The real problem here...
Honestly, what does this guy have to do to earn your disapproval?!
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Re: Re: The real problem here...
Made aware, he is making changes. Don't let Mike's Teabagger style one sided stories fool you for a minute, there is just no way that the President can be completely aware of all of the activities of every government department and worker at all times.
Due process... it also means "benefit of the doubt", you should try it!
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Re: Re: Re: The real problem here...
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Stupid
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Cluelessness
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one hand whitewashes the other
He may have had to promise not to fire them, in order to get them to say they never briefed him.
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Re: one hand whitewashes the other
If they were tapping foreign chief executives, you can bet it had presidential authority.
Where's the tapes? Every president since Nixon has recorded White House briefings -- there is probably a record somewhere.
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Now why would any self-respecting spy novelist lie about that?
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Incredible? Not so much.
I don't really think so. I've commented on techdirt almost a half dozen times that the NSA must have some pretty amazing dirt on Obama if Alexander and Clapper have held on this long.
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Re: Incredible? Not so much.
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Re: Incredible? Not so much.
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Anyone know whether gross negligence of office is grounds for impeachment?
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If Obama goes down, the rest of that viper's nest will be going down with him.
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it's a goon's worst nightmare, and all are learning exactly why is a bad idea to behave like we have been behaving.
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Still his fault
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Re: Still his fault
Modern leadershit principles don't include responsibility, honesty and integrity. The people "BELOW" them are there to take the fall when things go pear shaped. Obama claims to be a Christian, his actions show otherwise,. A true leader is actually a servant to those he/she leads. This country has no true leaders at the forefront. I love our country. .... Our government .... Not so much.
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Re: Still his fault
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Recall that many of us consider Iraq a CIA blunder. Recall that the East India Company also had a business relationship with and interests to protect within the British Colonies.
These spying operations are an aggressive act, a shadow war that undermines the self-governance of the target nation as surely as an armed invasion and occupation. The United States must choose whether it values a free world or dominance, it cannot pursue both.
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Our government has become overconfident, has used the majority of its available arsenal, spread itself far too thin and we will pay a heavy cost for that.
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Everyone
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Sounds like he's claiming/admitting that the NSA has gone rogue.
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Follow up questions
He knows about the monitoring of every cell phone in America. What is he doing to stop that?
NSA admitted that Keith Alexander had never briefed the President about spying on Merkel
They are not saying that no one briefed him about it. Clapper?
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Where is that relentless DOJ investigation/prosecution when we need it?
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If Obama calls for the heads of Keith Alexander and James Clapper, then he must go down the rabbit hole and loses the ability to say "I didn't know". If he gets rid of either of them it will be because congress or the people demanded it and not because the administration wanted to find out what was going on.
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Seriously officer...
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Wall Street has proven to be more powerful than the USG.
Hollywood has proven to be more powerful than the USG.
The NSA is proving to be more powerful than the USG.
How long does this list get? And why is the only group that *should* have power over it not on it? I seem to recall some old doodle about 'We, the people'.
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However, they are all very good at controlling its leaders. Two of them due it through money, and one of them does it through information. That doesn't make them more powerful any more than handing a gun to a 6 year old makes the 6 year old more powerful. Certainly it makes the 6 year old more dangerous, but not more powerful.
Politicians are puppets, Corporate America are the puppeteers. That goes for both political parties.
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Notice that everyone but Obama gets blamed?
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What a f***ing liar
He didn't know anything about the IRS targeting political conservatives, he didn't know anything about the Fast & Furious gun running, he doesn't know anything about HIS OWN ADMINISTRATION, does he?
Either (a) he's telling the truth, which means he's completely incompetent and worthy of the title bystander-in-chief and should be removed from office, or (b) he's lying and broken the public trust multiple times very publicly, and should be removed from office.
It's like my friend once told his 9-year-old nephew when he caught him in a lie:
Jack, you shouldn't lie for 2 reasons: (1) it's wrong, and (2) you're just no good at it.
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Just following the example set...
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Investigative committee to look into the actions of the NSA? His best solution is to put Clapper in charge and then attempt to call it meaningful looking into. Of course it was so blatant that the next day he had to claim that Clapper wouldn't be heading up the committee.
So instead, the committee is now housed in Clapper's office complex. It has to report to Clapper and my understanding is it's mission has been changed not to actually investigate any wrong doing. Not to mention it is loaded with impartial observers, all with past histories tying strongly to the NSA.
Past actions are already speaking loudly about how much Obama didn't know or pretends he didn't know.
As usual the whole thing stinks of misdirection, lying, and cover up. The same diet that has been fed the public since day one.
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It's it clear now?
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are you fucking kiddin' me?
i think the first thing i would want to know, therefore, is who the fuck is running the country? who has the authority to do this and who has decided the President doesn't need to know??
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It's funny how it's always some low level minions that did it and everyone up top knew NOTHING. He reminds me of Sargent Schultz from Hogan's Hero's. "I saw Nothing, I heard Nothing, I know Nothing!!!"
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NSA: Liar! Liar!
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It's Der Spiegel, techdirt
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Re: It's Der Spiegel, techdirt
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In a Related Story
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/28/everyone-wont-keep-health-care-plan-obamacare /
Perhaps, more related to this NSA story is the report by NBC news that "Obama administration has known that for at least three years." That people would be losing their health insurance policies, yet failed to disclose.
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21213547-obama-admin-knew-millions-could -not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite
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Re: In a Related Story
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First, Obama is an employee. He does what he is told and knows only enough to do what he is told. Obama cannot fire any of the NSA operatives, chiefs or spokespeople, as they are also just employees like him. Permission from the bosses would need to be secured first and Obama's bosses are simply ecstatic over the awesome job their employees are doing.
All one has to do is momentarily perceive the Fed as a corporate board of directors taking its orders from the men and women of real power and wealth who currently own the USA and all of these "odd occurrences" suddenly make complete sense, like the absolute lack of any disciplinary measures - or should I say the absolute lack of even the discussion of possible disciplinary measures - against anyone at the NSA.
Its pretty obvious, even for those without common sense, that if nobody is being disciplined for any of the dispicable actions of the Federal Security Industry, then everyone is doing their jobs exactly as they have been ordered to do.
Get used to it America. You have been invaded, conquered and occupied and now live under the rule of a foreign power - corporate wealth.
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The Joys of Ususry
"Like reforming the currency system that currently demands the US government borrow a dollar from the federal reserve for every dollar minted,"
I believe that's $1.07 borrowed for every dollar printed actually. That's $1,070,000 to print $1,000,000.
The laws were changed to allow this top level "cream" usury charge.
That's where the "deficit" really comes from.
Usury; once established in society as "business-as-usual", knows no limits, and eventually, the lion's share of actual cash is stashed in banks as soon as its printed, so it can earn interest for the rich, which in turn removes cash from circulation and forces the Fed to have more printed.
A truly beautiful scam.
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slipping the trick
"...there is just no way that the President can be completely aware of all of the activities of every government department and worker at all times."
You must be using Alexander's public response instruction booklet above.
Nobody has ever even mentioned the idea that the President should, or can, be aware of every government worker at all times.
By slipping that little tid-bit in at the end there, you play the same game the NSA plays in every public statement it makes.
All you've done is label yourself as a shill, paid or voluntary, it matters not. Thank you.
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