French Telco Orange Plans To Sue The NSA For Tapping Its Undersea Cables

from the blowback dept

Thu, Jan 2nd 2014 12:57pm — Mike Masnick

It's not entirely clear what form this will take, but the French telco Orange is claiming that it is planning to file a lawsuit over the news that the NSA has been tapping its undersea fiber optic cables.

France-based telecom firm Orange has revealed plans to take legal action against the US National Security Agency (NSA) for using its submarine cable for surveillance.....

An Orange spokeswoman was quoted by Reuters as saying: "We will take legal action in the next few days because we want to know more about the eventuality that Orange data may have been intercepted."

Again, I'm not sure under what jurisdiction or exactly what kind of lawsuit Orange is intending to bring, but it's yet another bit of blowback against the NSA's overreach in its efforts to spy on absolutely everyone. If Orange is able to succeed, I imagine that a variety of other companies might also look at lawsuits. We're generally highly critical of trade agreements that create corporate sovereignty programs, called "investor state dispute settlement" panels that allow foreign companies to sue governments over interfering with their business, but I wonder if the US's infatuation with these kinds of programs might come back to bite it really hard if it turns out that these mechanisms are used by foreign companies to argue that the NSA has interfered in their business efforts...

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Filed Under: corporate sovereignty, isds, lawsuits, nsa, surveillance, undersea cables
Companies: orange

32 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:00pm

Well, it's now obvious
France is a terrorist haven. Why else would a French company protest attempts to save the world from terrorists? The only logical response is for the US to invade France.
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- weneedhelp (profile), 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:42pm
  
  Re: Well, it's now obvious
  Lets see how this will play out; Shall we?
  
  NSA: Well France, you could either sue us[giggles], or we will share our technology with you.
  France: Oui oui, o.k. [Crickets]
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Jerrymiah, 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:19pm

NSA shit
I hope they go ahead with the threat and succed with it. On top of that, I wish that all countries that have been wrecked havoc upon by the NSA recalled home their ambassadors (for an extended period)to show the US that this is a game that be played by them as well.
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- Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:32pm
  
  Re: NSA shit
  Sadly, what I think is more likely to happen will be trade embargoes against US products or at least a sharp decline in our tech industries' exports. I don't think it will last forever, but the damage to the economy might very well start another recession.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:58pm
    
    Re: Re: NSA shit
    The child gets punished for the fathers sins!
    
    The suit seems to be about getting more information. It is not a formal threat to NSA in any deeper sense.
    
    The future of ISDS will keep the australia-size holes for secret services and a few other government exceptions. Actually this is just a reminder for the administration about the way FOIA can be used against them. Getting more limits to that service is just icing on the cake. Give it some time.
    Voila! The problem is out of sight out of mind of the media and the future ISDS will limit the existing FOIA access on account of the new "threat".
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  - Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 3:31pm
    
    Re: Re: NSA shit
    the embargoes wont matter either. if that happens, all that the USA will do is start a new 'Trade Deal' negotiated by the USTR (wankers!) with full transparency (no one outside the group and all the specific industries that have already paid their '5 pieces of silver' (more like $50,000 to each of multiple recipients) will know a freakin' thing what's going on), just so 'trade sanctions' can be put in place, that no one will take the slightest notice of any more!!
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KoD (profile), 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:28pm

I had mentioned this before on the recent Dell article. How beautiful it would be for ISDS to come back and kick the U.S. in the nuts... I realize that the groin pain would be payed for with our tax dollars, but some things are just worth spending money on.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:28pm

Orange needs to go a little further and file against the UK GCHQ as well. even if the NSA were the ones doing the tapping, GCHQ would have been sharing and using any data. Cameron needs to be on the receiving end for screwing the UK citizens just as much as Obama for screwing the US citizens
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:35pm

To all Americans
We voted these people in, shut up and enjoy the pain.

I don't see any of you changing your congress critters out, until then... eat the crow and fuzz up to them.

I understand that is really sounds like trolling, but I am dead serious. Until we change out the diapers that are sitting in the halls of congress none of this changes!
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- John Fenderson (profile), 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:44pm
  
  Re: To all Americans
  I'm not sure what "fuzz up to them" means, but I won't eat crow until it's only my vote that decides if they stay or go. You don't know how I vote, so you don't get to scold me.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:58pm
    
    Re: Re: To all Americans
    Fuzz up as in getting warm and fuzzy over them.
    
    True, I do not know how you vote, but I still see dirt-bags in congress. If you are not a part of the problem, then you should not be offended by my comment. Even so, we will be eating that crow despite not being guilty of voting evil in.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - John Fenderson (profile), 2 Jan 2014 @ 2:04pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: To all Americans
      I figured that since you were addressing "all Americans," that included me.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
weneedhelp (profile), 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:36pm

From here on out... NSA will always be Network Security Appliance... brought to you by Dell, where the "features" keep coming... even if you dont want them.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:43pm

Some CEO was like wait you mean someone was using/benefiting from our cable and not paying.... Lawsuit time
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rasz, 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:46pm

They will have as much luck as Canal+ had suing Rupert Murdoch's NDS Group over satellite TV hacking.
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Me, 2 Jan 2014 @ 1:58pm

NSA Overreach
At some point you'd think the idiots at the NSA and the executive branch will start to realize that their extreme overreach is causing more harm to U.S. security than we avoid by the overreach.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 2:08pm

Which country has been pushing corporate interests over the law of the land, so that corporates could sue for 'lost' profits if the law hurt them?
/rhetorical.
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- Shawn, 2 Jan 2014 @ 3:44pm
  
  Re: Corporate Interests and The Law of The Land
  This is "merely" an "unintended consequence" of the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution-- that is the one that made Negroes "legal persons" and "citizens". If the government could make Negroes persons, it could only do so by making CORPORATIONS legal persons AND CITIZENS as well (since they could sue other people and/or corporations, etc.). Google the term "corporate citizen" and see how many "hits" you get.... Thus, Mr. Coward, corporate interests ARE (in) the law of the land, whether you want to admit it or not.... If you don't want corporate personhood, you should have enough guts to repeal Negro personhood FIRST by calling for a REPEAL of the 14th Amendment (if you dare). Either BOTH Negroes AND corporations are persons or NEITHER of them -- which would you choose?
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  - John Fenderson (profile), 2 Jan 2014 @ 3:52pm
    
    Re: Re: Corporate Interests and The Law of The Land
    Either BOTH Negroes AND corporations are persons or NEITHER of them
    
    Pure hogwash.
    
    While it's true that the original case that invented corporate personhood involved the 14th amendment, it's also true that no court has tied corporate personhood itself to the 14th amendment.
    
    Remember, the judge that original court case didn't even rule that corporations had "personhood" (or that they didn't).
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  - Niall (profile), 3 Jan 2014 @ 5:34am
    
    Re: Re: Corporate Interests and The Law of The Land
    This sounds like the usual incredibly stupid racism that still infects the US, particularly the South/Right. Look, there are even RANDOM ALL CAPS to highlight the inbred mentality!
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    - John Fenderson (profile), 3 Jan 2014 @ 10:25am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Corporate Interests and The Law of The Land
      Not to mention the tell-tale use of the antiquated, racism-tinged word "Negroes". Capitalized, even.
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Spaceman Spiff (profile), 2 Jan 2014 @ 2:25pm

The law of unintended consequences...
The subject says it all. Eat Sh!it and die, NSA!
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 2:46pm

but I wonder if the US's infatuation with these kinds of programs might come back to bite it really hard if it turns out that these mechanisms are used by foreign companies to argue that the NSA has interfered in their business efforts..."

Oh please, the "impression" is that the "impression" is, that the us government is excempt from anything it doesnt want, at least, thats the impression.........i know, the us government "hates" this "surprising" assumption and would gladly have people assume they can sue them
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 3:25pm

The sovereign corporations will destroy the US government, through the same channel that the US government is championing to put in place all over the world, now that would be irony.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 3:48pm

They are more likely to complain at various EU officials than to sue the US. Wouldnt have much point in talking to the US about this, since they say its completly legal.
And they can easily find support in the EU
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Androgynous Cowherd, 2 Jan 2014 @ 4:07pm

Again, I'm not sure under what jurisdiction or exactly what kind of lawsuit Orange is intending to bring,

Trespass to chattels immediately springs to mind.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 6:23pm

Great, now we have the whole world suing each other outside their own jurisdictions. This is exactly like the Kim Dotcom case, except it's the NSA getting assaulted by a foreign nation this time.

Karma's a bitch.
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Anonymous Coward, 2 Jan 2014 @ 7:53pm

what argument ?
wouldn't Orange have to show interference ? and detail how this interference damaged what they do, and account for the losses of that damage?

same as can you show how the NSA meta-data collection has 'damaged' you financially, that you can show by documentation?

will be interesting to see how this goes, do you think this is a situation that now makes you want to support corporate sovereignty?

So is corporate sovereignty 'good' when you agree with the cause (against NSA) and bad everywhere else? where is your position on this?
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- Anonymous Coward, 3 Jan 2014 @ 1:35am
  
  Re:
  When has being unable to prove damages ever stopped the RIAA?
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G Thompson (profile), 2 Jan 2014 @ 9:05pm

Again, I'm not sure under what jurisdiction or exactly what kind of lawsuit Orange is intending to bring,

Most likely Admiralty Law. This would be very apt since Eleanor of Aquitaine, The Queen of France actually introduced it to England at the time of Richard the Lionheart (12th Century).

Under this they could go a few routes one of the most interesting being the actual act of Piracy. Now that would make my freakin year!
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- BeeAitch (profile), 3 Jan 2014 @ 5:04pm
  
  Re:
  Now that would make my freakin year!
  
  ...and it's only Jan. 2
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Lleuad Ci (profile), 3 Jan 2014 @ 3:35am

Fair Enough
Telco's make service undertakings to their clients. If the NSA's actions undermine those contractual service agreements then action is justified.
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