Our Broken Patent System: Company That Does Nothing May Get Hundreds Of Millions Of Dollars From Google

from the that's-not-innovation dept

Tue, Feb 4th 2014 3:14pm — Mike Masnick

The patent system is completely broken. Towards the end of 2012, we wrote about how a patent troll named Vringo, using some patents (6,314,420 and 6,775,664), had won a lawsuit against Google. Vringo was a failed ringtone company that had bought those highly questionable patents from the failed search engine Lycos and then sued basically everyone who ran a search engine. Microsoft agreed to settle (with a bizarre stipulation promising to pay 5% of whatever Google finally had to pay), while Google agreed to indemnify a bunch of the others that were all using Google's search under their own. The jury found that Google's AdWords product infringed, and gave an award much lower than what Vringo had asked for.

However, there was a further dispute about how much Google should have to pay for "ongoing" infringement. Google had argued that it had changed the way AdWords worked to avoid infringement, but Vringo disagreed. A judge not only agreed with Vringo, but has now awarded Vringo effectively 1.36% of all AdWords revenue -- which represents the majority of Google's revenue. No one's exactly sure how much, but it's probably in the range of $250 million per year until the patent expires in 2016.

This is silly. There's nothing in the patent that was key to Google doing what it does. There was nothing in the patent that taught anyone anything. In fact, Vringo flat out concedes that Google didn't "copy" anything. It just built its own product in a manner that best served its users. And Vringo, which did nothing at all, may now cash in for hundreds of millions of dollars. For doing nothing.

In a true capitalist system, when a company fails it goes out of business. Patents like this are a joke on the free market. They allow failed companies to sue those who succeed and get hundreds of millions of dollars out of them. They let companies that failed cash in for doing nothing -- for failing in the market place. It's a tax on companies that build something consumers want, paid to companies that could never correctly figure out what the market wanted. It means the companies that improve the world have to pay off the companies that have done nothing to improve the world. How is that possibly a fair or reasonable result?

I'm honestly curious for the usual crew of patent system defenders to explain how Vringo deserves ~$250 million a year for not doing anything at all to improve search.

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Filed Under: adwords, losers, patent trolls, patents, search engines, shakedown, winners
Companies: google, lycos, vringo

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bob, 4 Feb 2014 @ 3:24pm

Does nothing now but it did something before
This is why we have a patent system. It prevents the big billionaires from pushing the little guys out of business. If the patents disappeared when a company couldn't compete, the marketplace would be full of big bruisers who would just run companies off the road, like cars in some Hollywood chase movie. Then when the companies were run off the road, Mr. Mike, the innovator hater, would come along and argue that it was all their fault for failing to compete. Blame the victim.

They were a great company that couldn't compete with a company devoted to taking everyone's hard work and claiming that there's some legal loophole that makes it unevil. They've bullied the book authors. THey've steamrolled the news companies. At least this search engine stood up to the billionaire bullies.

It's sad to see this blog work its anti-populist ways and astroturf for the billionaires.
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- Michael, 4 Feb 2014 @ 3:32pm
  
  Re: Does nothing now but it did something before
  Actually, the company never did anything with these patents except buy them from someone else who never did anything with them.
  
  I know that because I read the article.
  
  Patent reform is entirely populist - without it, the wealthy can prevent the little guy from competing with only the THREAT of a lawsuit.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- John Fenderson (profile), 4 Feb 2014 @ 3:34pm
  
  Re: Does nothing now but it did something before
  The situation you describe bears no resemblance to this case.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 4:30pm
  
  Re:
  Anti-populist? Are you seriously claiming that Prenda and BREIN are populist? Are you fucking kidding me, bob?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 5:26am
    
    Re: Re:
    Um, advocating for artists and creators against exploitation by tech barons is most certainly populist. Might be time to get out a little more, eh?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Pragmatic, 5 Feb 2014 @ 5:59am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      What about advocating for artists and creators against exploitation by their labels, etc.?
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 6:22am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Artists voluntarily sign with labels. The random outliers of malfeasance by labels is so dwarfed by the massive exploitation of musicians by the tech industry that it's comical that you'd even try to bring it up.
        
        But then again, this is a tech industry apologist blog...
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 11:32am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        I take it you have never read a contract from a label before.
        
        Our are you just fill of it?
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        btrussell (profile), 6 Feb 2014 @ 2:54am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        I voluntarily signed on with my isp and their data caps too for the same reason.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 4:46pm
  
  Re: Does nothing now but it did something before
  Are you afraid of violating someone's patent on reading?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 5:06pm
    
    Re: Re: Does nothing now but it did something before
    Good one !
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 8:24pm
  
  Re: Does nothing now but it did something before
  Nothing says bully like building something all by yourself only to have someone come by after the fact, insist you stole it from them, and then demand you give them your lunch money every day until 2016.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Christenson, 4 Feb 2014 @ 3:42pm

Where is OOTB when you need him?
The situation is genuinely a crock! For that $$$, I hope Google takes it to the supreme court AND the prez...

And puts a little something on their search page, too.
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- Ootb is an idiot, 5 Feb 2014 @ 9:19am
  
  Re: Where is OOTB when you need him?
  Now look what you've done. You summoned the dark lord of cluelessness!
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

out_of_the_blue, 4 Feb 2014 @ 3:59pm

"Hunderds Of Millions"!!! -- Well, easy come, easy go.
Google can cough up some of the tens of billions untaxed off-shore. If bad decisions are the the only way to re-distribute monopoly gains, it's still better than Google keeping it.

The bigger question is at comment #4: "Where is OOTB when you need him?" -- Oh, between comments I'm doing various useful or necessary items. But if you'll 'splain your needs, I might hazard some advice.
The Google-Borg. Your privacy becomes our profit. (177 of 195)

11:59:12[m-482-3]
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- AricTheRed (profile), 4 Feb 2014 @ 4:16pm
  
  Re: "Hunderds Of Millions"!!! -- Well, easy come, easy go.
  "Oh, between comments I'm doing various useful or necessary items. But if you'll 'splain your needs, I might hazard some advice."
  
  --- OOTB
  
  Citation please...
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    
    out_of_the_blue, 4 Feb 2014 @ 8:01pm
    
    Re: Re: "Hunderds Of Millions"!!! -- Well, easy come, easy go.
    @ AricTheRed, Feb 4th, 2014 @ 4:16pm
    
    Re: "Hunderds Of Millions"!!! -- Well, easy come, easy go.
    "Oh, between comments I'm doing various useful or necessary items. But if you'll 'splain your needs, I might hazard some advice."
    
    --- OOTB
    
    Citation please...
    
    Not likely. Because rule here is:
    Be careful to not give personal details: only targets fanboy ad hom. (22 of 195)
    
    16:00:47[r-1-2]
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
      
      Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 12:34am
      
      Re: Re: Re: "Hunderds Of Millions"!!! -- Well, easy come, easy go.
      "Be careful to not give personal details: only targets fanboy ad hom. (22 of 195)"
      
      Isn't that your golden rule?
      
      Please note OOTB that it is also the rule that gets your comments reported every time.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Namel3ss (profile), 4 Feb 2014 @ 4:14pm

I can think of some search terms
that Google should put Vringo as the first result. Let's see:

litigious bastards
highway robbers
extortionists
Vrafia
all around assholes
pond scum
the next prenda
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 4:20pm

"Vringo is a Delaware corporation which was founded in 2006 by Israeli entrepreneurs and venture capitalist Jonathan Medved[2] and mobile software specialist David Goldfarb."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vringo

I hate to say this but ... darn Jews.
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- Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 7:59pm
  
  Re:
  Because Racism is fine, but god forbid you say "damn".
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 6:31am
    
    Re: Re:
    It's not racist to say they're Jews if they are Jews...
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - John Fenderson (profile), 5 Feb 2014 @ 8:13am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      But it is bigotry to point out a person's religion or nationality when it has nothing to do with anything.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Just Sayin', 4 Feb 2014 @ 4:43pm

Trying to explain things with extreme cases never works
"I'm honestly curious for the usual crew of patent system defenders to explain how Vringo deserves ~$250 million a year for not doing anything at all to improve search."

I think you need to sit down, have a calming cup of "relaxation tea", and breath a bit. The post reads like you were hyperventilating the whole time!

Now then, since you are relaxed, let's look at all of this. First and foremost, I will give you the same answer for this one that I gave in the Twitter case a few days back: Microsoft looked at the patents, looked at the case, looked at the costs, looked at the reality that they could very well lose in court, and decided it was better, most cost effective, and more reasonable to settle. Companies don't generally settle if they don't think patents have merit of they think they can beat them. This one is close enough to the line to make settlement a good option.

Google's case is pretty extreme, but then again, Google is both a deep pocket company and one that well known for making butt loads of money (and playing games to avoid taxation). They are not a very sympathetic defendant, as they would say. Having already lost in court and been forced to pay a settlement, you would figure they would have done more to avoid future issues - or just licensed the patent for the short run before it expires. Instead, they appear to have done less than needed to get away from the patent, and they lost AGAIN. The first loss apparently wasn't enough to get their attention.

Are the patents valid? Well, you have to consider that they were filed back in the 90s, long before the internet was all that. At the time, I would say that this stuff would have been relatively revolutionary, concepts that were certainly beyond the ability of any search engine of the day. The concepts of "community filters" and community profiles was pretty radical for a time when everyone got the same results all of the time for the same search.

In 2014, those things don't seem to be much of a miracle or seem deathly obvious, but at the time, they were not. Looking at them only through today's eyes is to ignore the history that got them there.

Are the patents somewhat general in nature? Yup. But then again, they were ground breaking in the day, and what looks general today was pretty specific at the time as well.

As for the "company that does nothing" holding the patents, well, just like any other asset from a company that has gone bust or closed down, it can end up in anyones hand. Patents are legally transferable, can be sold, can have rights assigned, etc. The patents themselves are pretty easy to understand overall, and they certainly do seem to describe pretty well how many current systems work. The patents may look silly by today's standards, but they were not when they were issued, and could very well have influenced others who are now part of the companies involved in actively using the described systems.

Looking only at the patents with 2014 eyes isn't a very good way to evaluate anything.

So stop hyperventilating, and move on. 2016 is just around the corner, and Google can part with a few million without noticing it in the slightest.
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- Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 11:48am
  
  Re: Trying to explain things with extreme cases never works
  As a programmer, there is no possible way to create a search algorithm from reading that patent. Patents are supposed to cover an implementation of an idea, not the idea itself.
  
  That you think that anyone knowledgeable in the field could reproduce an algorithm from reading this shows that you are either a patent lawyer, a lier or both (yes, I know, giving patent lawyer and lier as the options is a bit redundant)
  
  So, your premise is that Google has lots of money, so they won't mind a little gouging?
  
  People like you and companies like Vringo are a dragon on society.
  
  The sooner patent reform comes in the better and society will be rid of you leeches
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- John Fenderson (profile), 5 Feb 2014 @ 1:03pm
  
  Re: Trying to explain things with extreme cases never works
  "Companies don't generally settle if they don't think patents have merit of they think they can beat them."
  
  Companies do this all the time. Their calculus isn't "is it valid/can we beat it", it's "which path provides the greatest cost/benefit ratio". That a company settles means literally nothing about the validity of the patent.
  
  "The concepts of "community filters" and community profiles was pretty radical for a time when everyone got the same results all of the time for the same search."
  
  No, they weren't. The concept were old hat even then (they predate the internet). True, you didn't find them in search engines, but you did find them in all kinds of other places, especially in the BBS world.
  
  "2016 is just around the corner, and Google can part with a few million without noticing it in the slightest."
  
  So what? If patent abuse isn't fought every time it appears, then we'll have no chance at all of getting a better system.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2014 @ 5:46pm
  
  Re:
  horse with no name just hates it when due process is enforced.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
rapnel, 4 Feb 2014 @ 4:46pm

a comment
Well, as patents go, these aren't exactly round fucking corners either.

I'd rather see guaranteed sums to the creators but as far as securing rights in process creation goes, AdWords wins, clearly.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 5:09pm

More software and method patents - the scourge of modern times.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
  
  Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:33pm
  
  Re:
  Google would not agree, otherwise they would have not used it to make all that money.
  They knew about the patent, but they were making huge dollars, so decided to keep using it.
  
  So are they making the dollars because they are using it (the patent therefore has great value), or something else.
  
  If software patents are so worthless, why does Google use it, and not change it when they know about it, Could it possibly be because it leads them to make MORE Money.
  
  In other words Google would not agree that software patents are a scourge, they consider them highly valuable, and they are willing to steal them to gain that value.
  
  Lets hope this opens the flood gates for more action against Goolag.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:49pm
    
    Re: Re:
    They didn't "use" anything.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 8:30pm
    
    Re: Re:
    I don't think you understand the difference between the right to extract rents and value. Value is when people are blissfully willing to pay for something. The right to extract rents I'd when the government uses its monopoly on coercive force to take money from others a give it to you. Subtle difference I know...
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 12:18am
    
    Re: Re:
    Google improved on said patent, before being made aware of it. Vringo sued to get a payday, plain and simple.
    
    Think on that - getting paid for sitting on your arse.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 2:52am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      getting paid for sitting on your arse."
      
      Isn't that the motto of the MPAA/RIAA/BPI/etc?
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Sacredjunk, 5 Feb 2014 @ 1:06am
    
    Re: Re:
    Did you miss the below line in the article?
    
    "Vringo flat out concedes that Google didn't "copy" anything."
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - John Fenderson (profile), 5 Feb 2014 @ 8:14am
    
    Re: Re:
    Who cares what Google thinks?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
avideogameplayer, 4 Feb 2014 @ 5:11pm

I wonder how much more money these companies will lose before they start pounding at the PTO?

Hopefully enough to push them towards bankruptcy...
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Ben Dover, 4 Feb 2014 @ 5:15pm

Google
People need to remember google's patents are google's patents and your patents are google's patents...because they are google. The Lang patent...Ken Ang...the true inventor...not Larry Page is the CTO at Vringo as he was at Lycos.

Judge Jackson in making his final award in favor of Vrngo consulted the most knowledgable people in the field to determine that Google did indeed steal the patent from the rightful owner and does continue to wilfully infringe on the patent. If Vringo is a troll then Google is a thief and no matter what some turd blog writer says needs to pay the rightful owner their money.
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- Mike Masnick (profile), 4 Feb 2014 @ 5:53pm
  
  Re: Google
  Google did indeed steal the patent from the rightful owner
  
  So Vringo no longer has it?
  
  Oh wait, that's not true.
  
  does continue to wilfully infringe on the patent
  
  Which even Vringo *flat out admitted* Google did not copy.
  
  Yeah, okay.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:25pm
    
    Re: Re: Google
    The 'rightful owner' is the person, group or company THAT OWNS IT.
    No one cares if you agree that is the rightful owner or not, so yes, Google did indeed steal the patent, and yes, off the rightful owner.
    
    you notice "INFRINGE ON THE PATENT"
    
    IS NOT COPY THE PATENT, even you should know what INFINGE means, you use it often enough.
    Or do you not understand the difference between copyright and patent law?
    
    Sure, they didn't copy, and therefore did not breach copyright law, but they 'infringed' the Patent rights, and broke the law!
    
    (you do understand breaking the law is illegal in most states!???)
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 8:34pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Google
      So what your saying is you don't understand what 'stealing a patent' means. Using a patent without permission is infringement. Stealing a patent is something else entirely.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 12:19am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Google
        Okay, then, allow me to explain the difference:
        
        Stealing a patent - Edison
        Infringe on a patent - Google.
        
        (not aimed at you, by the way).
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Pragmatic, 5 Feb 2014 @ 6:04am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Google
        Stealing a patent - patenting someone else's invention so that only you can commercially exploit it
        
        Infringing on a patent - making a patented item without paying royalties or gaining permission from the patent holder
        
        Bear in mind that rounded corners have been patented, so the USTPO apparently isn't checking for obviousness or prior art.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    
    Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:27pm
    
    Re: Re: Google
    "If Vringo is a troll then Google is a thief and no matter what some turd blog writer says needs to pay the rightful owner their money."
    
    No, in situations like that, Masnick will simply say the Judge, and the Courts are WRONG!! (and/or stupid, corrupt)
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
      
      Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:27pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Google
      will simply say THE JUDEGE IS WRONG.. sry
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 12:58am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Google
        So you corrected yourself to replace a correctly typed word with another typo?
        
        Wow, solar panel engineers are fucking hilariously dumb.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 7:23am
    
    Re: Re: Google
    Not trying to be argumentative, but only accurate. What is it you mean by "Google did not copy."? My assumption is that Google did its thing in blissful ignorance that the patent(s) even existed. Perhaps, but it cannot be readily dismissed that Lycos' prior entry into the search engine space was known to late comers (it is a fool who proceeds unaware that there are other entrants in the relevant technical field and what those others have to offer) and may very well have been used as a source of "inspiration" for crafting alternate search engines.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:46pm
  
  Re: Google
  Bahahahaha... Well trolled sir...
  
  I'm assuming this is a troll as I don't know you and don't like to just assume you are some sort of massive retard who would actually believe this.
  I mean we all know you don't "steal" IP you infringe upon it, and that patents are meant to present a specific way of doing something (so if the you do it a different way your not infringing.
  
  I mean c'mon "Judge Jackson in making his final award in favor of Vrngo consulted the most knowledgable people in the field"... comedy classic right their (since he followed an East Texas cases example).
  
  Nice trolling sir.
  
  Of course if your not trolling... I'm suprised you have the intelligence to breath.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 7:25pm
  
  Re: Google
  This is proof that patents are a form of legalized theft. Google earned money and this patent troll came in and stole that money. Theft should be illegal but our government is legalizing it.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Paraquat, 4 Feb 2014 @ 5:45pm

leave the USA
I don't know why Google and other tech companies remain in the USA. OK, I know it's a big market, actually the biggest in terms of revenue. So yes, they've got to do business there. But they don't have to make the USA their headquarters. They ought to depart to friendlier shores. That will position them better for the day when the USA collapses due to its own greed, incompetency and corruption.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:14pm
  
  Re: leave the USA
  I thought that ALL of the big corporations had already left the US and moved their headquarters to Ireland.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:28pm
    
    Re: Re: leave the USA
    Still have to abide by the laws of the countries they operate in.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:33pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: leave the USA
      supposed to pay tax in the country you operate in as well
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 8:37pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: leave the USA
        They do. If you have a problem with moving profits off shore you should petition your government to make it illegal (good luck). Until such time it remains perfectly legal.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 8:48pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: leave the USA
        sure, and I will pull the Millions of dollars out of my ass to bribe the politicians like these corporations have?
        
        Or should I just offer them a high paying job where they do not even have to attend or do any work when they leave politics?
        
        I could send them the hookers and blow, but, seeing as how i am in the 99 percent of the population that does not get the high court treatment, I would just end up in jail.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 5:56am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: leave the USA
        Show me where Google has spent millions to keep something legal that has always been legal please.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        John Fenderson (profile), 5 Feb 2014 @ 1:07pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: leave the USA
        No one said it wasn't legal. I think what they said is it is wrong. Two entirely different things.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
me, 4 Feb 2014 @ 5:59pm

lang invented patent
Yeah you are way off base with this article. Lang invented patent which he had with lycos. He now is with vringo which is how vringo got the patent. You should do some research before you take the time write an article unless you just want to keep writing ymb material
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- Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:28pm
  
  Re: lang invented patent
  I take it from you comments that you have never read the patent in question.
  
  Go on, point out how the patent has in any way assisted Google with the way that they conduct search funtionality.
  
  What was the code in the patent that they copied?
  
  As a programmer, there is no way to create the search algorithm from reading that patent. that you can say that this is any way a valid patent shows that you either have a vested interest in this patent or the company. Which is it?
  No sane/ not bought and paid for person could possibly find this patent valid.
  
  That some companies decide to pay the extortion rather than fight the charges as it costs millions of dollars to fight bogus patents in court. Especially when the troll sues in an East Texas court.
  
  If this was in any way a valid patent, then it would be patented in all countries that provide patent protection, not just in the US.
  
  What are the patent numbers from the other 148 countries that are members of the PCT?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 7:37am
    
    Re: Re: lang invented patent
    Apparently patent law is not an area with which you have intimate familiarity when it comes to trying to craft a beneficial foreign filing strategy.
    
    Yes, there are many signatories to the PCT, but many of them have the industrial capability of "Bronze Age" societies. Thus, there is no compelling business reasons why they should receive any consideration. There are, however, many countries where manufacturers and potential users exist that may detract from market share potential, and it is in these countries that foreign filings are typically considered. Of course, it cannot be discounted that foreign prosecution can be a very expensive proposition. I still recall one instance where the translation of a modest sized application into the official language of that country ran in the tens of thousands of dollars. We paid because the product was a very sophisticated navigation and targeting system for use on high performance military aircraft and for which a lucrative contract was being sought, an immediate benefit of which was that in any subsequent sale the USG could be held at bay in trying to mandate that the system be sold to it at essentially wholesale so that it could turn around and sell it to the country at retail. In the world of military system sales, US companies continually face the USG as one of its major competitors. Ever seen a military officer's business card where it stated his/her job comprised "Business Development and Sales"?
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    - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 11:53am
      
      Re: Re: Re: lang invented patent
      Apparently the world ends at the American border in your eyes.
      
      It's America and the rest of the developing world.
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    - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 3:40pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: lang invented patent
      So you know that this is not a valid patent, but decided that it is better to insult the rest of the World rather than admit you are wrong.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:20pm

Too big to fail ?
So because Google is making money, they therefore should be able to continue making money, regardless of any laws, rules or the use of others idea's.

Google knew about this, but they kept on using it, surly a company as big as Google (with TECHNOLOGY) would have been able to change what they do. (you know like they said they would).

But I guess the prospect of making vast sums of money got in the way.

Where do you think Google gets its money from?

OFF EVERYONE, even if you don't use Google or the internet, you pay Google every time you buy something.

Do you apply the same logic to the 'legacy movie industry' they are providing value to many customers, have a viable business model, but you bitch about them all the time.

Why not the same with Google? Could it be because a part of that money IS YOUR CUT?
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- Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:47pm
  
  Re: Too big to fail ?
  Patents are NOT supposed to cover an idea, but the implementation of that idea. When are you going to realise that people like you have corrupted and broken the patent system.
  
  When the patent examiners are forced to approve 80% of all patents submitted, the system is broken.
  
  When it costs millions of dollars to invalidate bogus patents like this one, then the system is broken.
  
  So when I Vringo search, to find what I am looking for on the internet, they use the exact same algorithm as Google?
  or more to the point, when I use Google to search, they use the exact same algorithm that Lycos/ Vringo uses in their search ?
  
  Patents are supposed to be only for novel and non-obvious implementations of an idea.
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- Sacredjunk, 5 Feb 2014 @ 1:42am
  
  Re: Too big to fail ?
  You lost me at "you pay Google every time you buy something."
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- This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
  
  Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 5:36am
  
  Re: Too big to fail ?
  Short answer? Yes.
  
  This is a tech apologist blog, and that of course often means covering up for the laughably evil Google. Oh sure, once every couple months you'll see the obligatory "I disagree with Google" article (invariably involving the most trivial of things), but that's just for show.
  
  The great thing is that every hour of every day more and more people are realizing how evil Google is, and public sentiment is rapidly changing.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 12:21pm
    
    Re: Re: Too big to fail ?
    http://torrentfreak.com/google-heckled-at-midem-over-youtube-ripping-piracy-140203/
    
    Tick-tock...
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:40pm

new recipe for cooking 1 ripe, rich planet
Steps:
1, start a bunch of companies & hire a bunch inventors
2, invent things & get patents so you're the sole owner
3, take anybody infringing your patent/s to court for damages
4, employ patent attorneys & all laugh your way to the bank

Alternative:
1, start one big-ass company & hire legions of inventors
2, invent things & get patents so you're the sole owner
3, get taken to court for infringing patent/s
4, employ patent attorneys & pay your damages & repeat cycle

Your cooked planet should now look like below picture:
**tech companies & inventors leaking their $'s to lawyers**
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- btrussell (profile), 6 Feb 2014 @ 3:11am
  
  Re: new recipe for cooking 1 ripe, rich planet
  Probably cheaper to just buy failing companies and start filing suits against anyone with money.
  
  Trump? He may be infringing on disneys copyright for "Donald" and a patent on how to comb your toupee.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 6:55pm

I never realized Lycos was out of business (or at least "failed" makes it sound as if it is the case).
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 7:16pm

And Moses came down from the mountain to proclaim that common sense has been parted by the red sea. When Larry doth say: thou shalt create good search and advertising, and you toil to be worthy, it is not wont on you to look to others for guidance. Thy lord has pointed the way, inspiration and dedication shall be thy guiding light.

In other words, you go to work to solve a given task, you don't go read patents to help you figure out the problem, you sit down and do it. Any reasonably skilled set of programmers will likely come up with similar solutions, some better than others. Unfortunately the way patents are written anymore, it doesn't matter what solution is used, the description of the problem being solved is all that seems to matter.
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This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

out_of_the_blue, 4 Feb 2014 @ 7:51pm

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
I'll repost this too: the kids have gone on to censor:
bob, Feb 4th, 2014 @ 3:24pm

Does nothing now but it did something before

This is why we have a patent system. It prevents the big billionaires from pushing the little guys out of business. If the patents disappeared when a company couldn't compete, the marketplace would be full of big bruisers who would just run companies off the road, like cars in some Hollywood chase movie. Then when the companies were run off the road, Mr. Mike, the innovator hater, would come along and argue that it was all their fault for failing to compete. Blame the victim.

They were a great company that couldn't compete with a company devoted to taking everyone's hard work and claiming that there's some legal loophole that makes it unevil. They've bullied the book authors. THey've steamrolled the news companies. At least this search engine stood up to the billionaire bullies.

It's sad to see this blog work its anti-populist ways and astroturf for the billionaires.
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out_of_the_blue, 4 Feb 2014 @ 7:57pm

This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
MIKE: you are hereby notified that your inaction isn't acceptable. Just because I try to poke fun at your fanboys doesn't mean that I enjoy this concerted harassment, nor endure it willingly. As you've taken zero (visible) action to my previous complaints, I don't expect you to this time, either, BUT you don't have any defense from sharing whatever liability the rabid little fanboys might cause. I wouldn't advise you to let them diminish your fine site further. A word from you would stop this targeting of me, and in any case, YOU do have the power to remove posts. So long as you leave me to defend myself, I'll do so.

By the way, the "hunderds" in the title is yet unchanged after nearly five hours! That's typical of Techdirt. First concern here is suppressing dissent so that Mike looks right, but he can't even spell.

out_of_the_blue, Feb 4th, 2014 @ 3:59pm

"Hunderds Of Millions"!!! -- Well, easy come, easy go.

Google can cough up some of the tens of billions untaxed off-shore. If bad decisions are the only way to re-distribute monopoly gains, it's still better than Google keeping it.

The bigger question is at comment #4: "Where is OOTB when you need him?" -- Oh, between comments I'm doing various useful or necessary items. But if you'll 'splain your needs, I might hazard some advice.
Not only does "Emperor" Mike have no clothes, he's just a pretend emperor! (69 of 195)

15:56:19[q-137-1]
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- This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
  
  Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 8:41pm
  
  Re: This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
  Reported. Let me know how much that makes me'liable' for, lol. Little boy blue can dish but can't take it.
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- This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
  
  Ninja (profile), 5 Feb 2014 @ 2:28am
  
  Re: This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
  he title was so funny I had to read the contents of the comment and heck it was funny.
  
  You constantly pollute this blog with nonsense, factless assumptions and ad homs and yet you want Mike, the head of the blog to help you against the "bullies" that are nothing more than the community acting based on the prick you are? That's golden comedy, I even gave you a funny vote.
  
  Stop being an obnoxious piece of turd and you'll stop being reported.
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  - This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    
    Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 5:39am
    
    Re: Re: This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    Nah, you little turds have to censor dissenting opinions for fear the truth might be visible.
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    - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 6:01am
      
      Re: Re: Re: This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
      Specious logic. Sometimes people don't want to listen to you because you are annoying and wrong. See also: homeless doomsayers, religious zealots.
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    - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 8:43am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Your standards of "truth" are disturbingly shallow. Not surprisingly so, but they're pathetic standards.
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  techflaws (profile), 5 Feb 2014 @ 2:47am
  
  Re: This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
  Look who's whining: ankle-biter #1 (aka weakling). Hilarious!
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Sheogorath (profile), 4 Feb 2014 @ 8:27pm

I know you don't like it, but...
could you please ban OOTB, Mike? Not only is he continuing to post his own shit, he's now reposting the 'censored' shit of others (regardless of the fact that would be impossible if it was truly censored).
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- That One Guy (profile), 4 Feb 2014 @ 9:48pm
  
  Re: I know you don't like it, but...
  No point, just click report on all the comments and move on, if Blue's taken to copy/pasting stuff to try and drum up attention, that suggest people aren't bothering to humor him/her anymore, and he/she's getting desperate for people to pay attention to them.
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  - Ninja (profile), 5 Feb 2014 @ 2:31am
    
    Re: Re: I know you don't like it, but...
    I can understand him. It seems ootb goes into seizures or some mental stroke some days and becomes incredibly obnoxious. Even if you don't read his comments there they are polluting the article (visually).
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  - Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 6:03am
    
    Re: Re: I know you don't like it, but...
    and he/she's getting desperate for people to pay attention to them.
    
    This^^ exactly. ootb is an attention whore on TD. (What that means about his personal life is an exercise for the reader's imagination.)
    
    The remedy: ignore him. ENTIRELY. And for those who don't, give them the same treatment:
    REPORT OOTB AND EVERYONE WHO REPLIES TO HIM
    
    Stop letting this one shithead ruin the site.
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- alan turing, 5 Feb 2014 @ 1:27am
  
  Re: I know you don't like it, but...
  They've got this thing called VPN, you can't ban him.
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  - techflaws (profile), 5 Feb 2014 @ 2:49am
    
    Re: Re: I know you don't like it, but...
    He could delete every post of him till he gets tired. And though even that wouldn't be censorship, Mike does not do it proving ankle-biter #1 wrong yet again.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 8:58pm

Lycos is out of business as a failure to secure search engine market share?
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2014 @ 9:02pm

I have no way to prove anything about who may have borrowed from who, but it does seem to me that Lycos' entry into the search engine market in the mid 90s may have been in part the impetus and a technical approach examined by later search engine developers and perhaps even used by some of them to avoid re-inventing the wheel.
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tracyanne (profile), 5 Feb 2014 @ 12:43am

The Patent Claims
I'm not sure I could actually develop the code if I received a program spec that looked like those claims. I guess they make sense to someone, Lawyers perhaps, but not me.
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David, 5 Feb 2014 @ 2:21am

Capitalism works!
In a true capitalist system, when a company fails it goes out of business.

And that's exactly what is happening here if you take a look at the big picture.

The U.S.A. fails providing working political and legal underpinnings sensibly supporting a free market of goods, ideas, and ideals, and it goes out of business.

While it has repeatedly raised its debt ceiling, the outside trust that it will retain enough taxable business to actually cover its debts one day is eroding. Dollars remain an important currency in circulation for traditional reasons, and that's what brakes their trade value from plummetting even faster.
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Sagacious Research, 5 Feb 2014 @ 2:25am

Re: To Google
Thus, we assert the importance of engaging professionals for managing the IP portfolio of a company whether big or small. Here, had it been that Google invested some money into prior-art searches, it could have ascertained that it was using a technology patented by someone else (here Lycos who sold those patents to Vringo) forestalling expensive and futile patent litigation. Getting done patent searches beforehand is a good preventive measure and every company, individual inventor and startup must take this seriously.
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- John Fenderson (profile), 5 Feb 2014 @ 9:33am
  
  Re: Re: To Google
  Getting done patent searches beforehand is a good preventive measure and every company, individual inventor and startup must take this seriously.
  
  But of limited value with software patents. You can catch the obvious stuff, sure, but the software patent world is riddled with landmines: patents so broad or bogus that there's no way you'll be able to find them, and even if you do it won't be anything like clear that a case could be made that you're infringing on them.
  
  The only way to actually be safe is to not produce software at all.
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Pragmatic, 5 Feb 2014 @ 5:54am

In a true capitalist system, when a company fails it goes out of business. Patents like this are a joke on the free market.

Sorry to contradict you, Mike, but there's no such thing as a free market and there never will be. A true capitalist system simply means that trade, industry and the means of production are controlled by private owners with the goal of making profits in a market economy, and decisions regarding investment, production and distribution are based on supply and demand.

The notion of the free market assumes that there are no artificial constraints on supply or demand, but pretty much every article on this fine blog contradicts that by pointing out that

� corporations are currently engaged in monopolies, oligopolies, and cartels
� hoarding real and digital products is common
� protectionism comes in many forms and cannot be totally ended

So no, it's not a joke on the free market, it's an assault on the rule of law by granting damages where no infringement has been proved and it's a sign that the patent system is indeed broken.

We need a radical overhaul of the patent system, and frankly, I find it increasingly hard to justify the existence of patents in the 21st century at all unless the product is truly exceptional.

Patents for non-practicing entities have no place in a civilized world.

For the record, I believe that a civilized society requires a mixed economy, where the government runs essential services but private enterprises are allowed to compete on service.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 6:26am

"... censor dissenting opinions ..." Whuuu?
Nah, you little turds have to censor dissenting opinions for fear the truth might be visible.

Provably false. At the time of creating this comment there are PLENTY of dissenting opinions in just this one article that have not been reported into hidden status (which is totally different than censored). For example, this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one.

Beginning to see a pattern here? It's not dissent that gets one reported, it's obvious and intentional childish, obnoxious, arrogant and assholish behavior (brought to you courtesy of OOTB) that gets people to click the report button.

Notice how the ONLY other comments reported to hidden (at the time I posted this) is one that is incredibly misinformed or the other that is flat out racist
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CFWhitman, 5 Feb 2014 @ 12:47pm

Patent Misconception
There is a very simple difference between the way patents are often used now (especially software patents and "business method" patents) and the reason they were created in the first place. I don't know why people don't seem to be able to see it, but here it is.

Patents were created to protect people who found a desirable new method to reach an established goal. Instead, now, they are being used as a way to protect people using an established method to reach a desirable new goal.

It's not the goal that is supposed to be new and non-obvious for a patent to be valid. You don't even have to know what you're doing to come up with a new, non-obvious goal. That's why they're not patentable. Science fiction writers would deserve a lot of patents if the goal (or idea) was the patentable part. It's the way the goal is reached that has to be new and non-obvious. It doesn't matter how new a goal is if, given the goal, anyone skilled in the art would easily be able to reach it. Basically all software patents are obvious for this reason. All programmers are simply using the same logic structures that are common to programming languages.

This used to be recognized in the past. That is why software patents were not recognized by the patent office. It's actually interesting that recipes and mathematical algorithms are not patentable, since software is, in principle, a cross between a recipe and a mathematical algorithm. If patents were granted the way they were originally intended, 99% of software patents would never have been given out in the first place.
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Don Smith, 5 Feb 2014 @ 1:22pm

I call BS
They should not have to prove anything to anyone, about improving a search engine. If they have a patent, it's a valuable property. End of story.

And it doesn't matter if they are "doing nothing" but collecting revenus from patents. If I am a limited partner in a building in NYC that pulls in $100 million in rent a year, I get a share of that even though I am doing nothing but sitting on my arse.

Stop trying to take someone else's property. And hire better lawyers that search prior patens better.
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- Anonymous Coward, 5 Feb 2014 @ 1:45pm
  
  Re: I call BS
  Only an idiot or an East Texas jury (Redundant description) think that this is on any way a valid patent
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suezz, 5 Feb 2014 @ 1:45pm

UH?
"with a bizarre stipulation promising to pay 5% of whatever Google finally had to pay"

WTH! is that? was vringo started by an ex microsoft employee?

that agreement definitely doesn't pass the sniff test
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- btrussell (profile), 6 Feb 2014 @ 3:20am
  
  Re: UH?
  It saves ms money fighting it and gives ammo to the company who is suing. "Look, MS already admitted to infringing and are paying us."
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John85851 (profile), 5 Feb 2014 @ 3:02pm

Legalized extortion again
This is legalized extortion again. The choice is pay $X million now to settle or pay $X million times 2 or 3 to your attorneys to fight the case, which you may lose and have to pay the money plus damages for dragging out the case. Sure, it's your legal right to defend yourself, but it'll cost you money that would be better spent in many, many other areas.
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Joseph Saad (profile), 6 Feb 2014 @ 7:07am

Not a "failed ring-tone company"
Vringo's website describes them as "as engaged in the innovation, development and monetization of intellectual property and mobile technologies. Vringo's intellectual property portfolio consists of over 500 patents and patent applications covering telecom infrastructure, internet search, and mobile technologies."
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