New Snowden Doc Reveals How GCHQ/NSA Use The Internet To 'Manipulate, Deceive And Destroy Reputations'
from the and-not-just-terrorists dept
A few weeks ago, Glenn Greenwald, while working with NBC News, revealed some details of a GCHQ presentation concerning how the surveillance organization had a "dirty tricks" group known as JTRIG -- the Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group. Now, over at The Intercept, he's revealed the entire presentation and highlighted more details about how JTRIG would seek to infiltrate different groups online and destroy people's reputations -- going way, way, way beyond just targeting terrorist groups and threats to national security.Among the core self-identified purposes of JTRIG are two tactics: (1) to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets; and (2) to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable. To see how extremist these programs are, just consider the tactics they boast of using to achieve those ends: “false flag operations” (posting material to the internet and falsely attributing it to someone else), fake victim blog posts (pretending to be a victim of the individual whose reputation they want to destroy), and posting “negative information” on various forums.For years, people have said that the purpose of groups like the NSA and GCHQ were merely "signals intelligence," which were about understanding and decoding signals, not about taking any sort of offensive standpoint. However, as the Snowden docs have repeatedly revealed, the mandate of these organizations has long been much more offensively based, and they seem to have little problem with using questionable tactics to destroy people's lives. As Greenwald notes, is this really a power you trust a totally secretive government agency with almost no real oversight to use without it being abused?
There's a lot more in Greenwald's writeup, which you should read, but just a few of the key slides are worth reading to get a sense of what's going on here. This isn't just about infiltrating terrorist organizations. They seem to be using these kinds of techniques on just about anyone they dislike, which harkens back to the Hoover-era FBI infiltrating and seeking to discredit anti-war groups. It also raises very serious questions about whether these efforts are being used to stifle political expression.
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Filed Under: gchq, glenn greenwald, jtrig, nsa
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More recently on Saturday there was a major protest scheduled (via social networks) against the World Cup here in Săo Paulo. There was an intense smearing campaign against protesters trying to portrait them all as vandals and it has been revealed that the Govt is paying people to infiltrate and derail these protests into violence. The police also issued subpoenas against a whole load of people that confirmed they would be participating on Facebook EXACTLY at the time of the protests. The shit layer is thick, we haven't seen the worst of such intelligence services yet.
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Omit that from both posts.
It's just screwing us. Period.
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A side note, anybody trying to organize a violent anarchic period is doing so so they can become top tyrant when the existing power falls. They are not anarchists, as they wish to rule.
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On this,we disagree.
But it's all academic anyway -- no true anarchy can last if it consists of more than a handful or two of people (and probably not even then). Eventually a warlord or neighborhood bully will take the place over and then -- bam -- you have a government.
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Millions of distributions to choose from all of them with shody package updates that can leave you with a gapping security hole and now the people over at apple are suddenly realising that those SSL certificates dont really work the way they expect.
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And the minute that you have such a system going, you have a government, not anarchy.
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As I stated earlier, in a small group it might work but en masse you end up with someone trying to organize the people => administration => government.
And the best way to get people to organize is to present them with a common enemy. The person who emerges as a Great Protector then becomes a tyrant. See every revolution ever for details.
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Interestingly, such ad-hoc systems often end up with more knowledge available to the system, as messages are seen by many watchers who can join the conversation if they have anything relevant to say.
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Well, look at the TwitchplaysPokemon on how people can eventually make decisions in a democratic manner. It works albeit slowly.
Then you have other democratic decisions at the work place which makes for a way to organize outside of a bureacracy.
You might want to look into flat structures and how they are different from the hierarchical structure that you're alluding to.
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FTFY. The only time the government does much to serve the public is if an issue is pushed hard enough that it threatens their reelection. Otherwise, it's basically plutocratic bukkake.
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We don't need it. There are much more peaceful/consensual/effcient means of "governing" that respect self-ownership drived property rights and adhere to the non-aggression principle (the *initiation* of force is immoral, while self defense is valid).
I prefer consensual relationships and exchange.
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I don't believe you or John F. Both of you seem to be stuck in a paradigm that requires the illusion of government. It requires an evolution of thought that probably does not benefit either of your situations. You both benefit greatly by the unjust governments that people believe in and give power to. You are consumers of a vast amount of resources that are provided to you at a fraction of their real costs. Meanwhile, majority of the human beings in this world receive the butt end of what it takes to support your life style. It is true; your life style would not exist without an organized, aggressive and violent government. I think in the longer term. My life means nothing except for how I prepare this world for the future. Governments are the biggest polluters and kill the most life on this planet. Eliminating them would be a huge benefit for the future of this planet.
“someone gets exploited for the sake of a select few...”
You are currently part of the select few that are exploiting the world with your “government.” Your intellectual class is robbing majority of the world of its basic human rights.
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Funny, my post never said that. Where are you parsing that from?
Both of you seem to be stuck in a paradigm that requires the illusion of government.
Or maybe the illusion is that private markets lead to disparities in society if you don't address the issues at their core.
You both benefit greatly by the unjust governments that people believe in and give power to.
Or maybe blaming government for the ills of society isn't quite the best way to understand how to move forward.
You are consumers of a vast amount of resources that are provided to you at a fraction of their real costs.
That's funny, because I don't see myself as just a consumer. And that reductionist POV is one of a few different ways to look at the world.
It is true; your life style would not exist without an organized, aggressive and violent government.
That's a HUGE stretch...
Governments are the biggest polluters and kill the most life on this planet.
Actually, "private markets" are.
Eliminating them would be a huge benefit for the future of this planet.
Right, let's just ignore that concept called democracy to just say that we don't need government...
You are currently part of the select few that are exploiting the world with your “government.”
Nice passive aggressiveness, but you've yet to make a logical argument that actually substantiates your point. Try harder instead of trying to blame people.
Your intellectual class is robbing majority of the world of its basic human rights.
That... That just doesn't even make any sense...
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Wrong.
"Given the scale of the military-industrial complex (some call it an empire), the U.S. military is the largest single polluter on the planet."
"By the late 1980s, public data revealed that the Pentagon was generating a ton of toxic waste per minute, more toxic waste than the five largest U.S. chemical companies together, making it the largest polluter in the United States."
"According to the 2008-2009 President’s Cancer Panel Report, nearly 900 of EPA’s approximately 1,300 Superfund sites are abandoned military bases/facilities or manufacturing and testing sites..."
"Author Barry Sanders estimates the U.S. military’s “armored vehicles, planes and luxury planes consume one-quarter of the world’s jet fuel and close to two million reported gallons of oil every day"
Here is the link: http://www.psr.org/environment-and-health/environmental-health-policy-institute/responses/the-milita ry-enterprise-as-global-polluter.html
And on killing. I don't think the private markets kill like the government does. I will let you prove that one to me since I just disproved your claim regarding pollution.
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Gee... Having corporations run everything in a perverse sense that makes Adam Smith turn over in his grave isn't hurting the public domain at all.
Right...
I will let you prove that one to me since I just disproved your claim regarding pollution.
You haven't disproved anything. You've just thrown out some data while ignoring such issues as the West Virginia fracking spill or the West Texas explosion continue to occur.
How about the NAFTA agreement between corporations and the state to move to other areas to pollute?
Maybe instead of a heavy focus on blaming government, you could learn that corporate wrong doing has systemically destroyed the environment as well as lives, all for the pursuit of profit.
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My position is that since it's inevitable, the wisest thing to do is to make it as beneficial and harmless as possible.
If you have a workable alternative to government, I'm very, very open to it.
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The individuals who wrote up those policies and who pushed those policies should be investigated and prosecuted because they illegal used government resources for electoral purposes seeking to publicly persecute individuals who challenged their politics.
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I recall during the time of the OWS protestors, they had a camera monitor/internet setup manned by both bank personal and city cops.
There was a persistent problem reported by those protestors about infiltrators hunting information. It was said most of them were pretty easy to spot because they kept wanting to know the names of the leaders.
Later it was revealed that the FBI was coordinating responses across the nation with local police departments and that because the protestors had been labeled terrorists that the National Fusion Centers were dead in the middle of gathering info.
There were also reports of anarchists in the middle of the protests breaking windows and doing malicious random damage which gave the cops a reason to act against a peaceful crowd. Many were the speculations that those anarchists were supplied by the authorities as they were not wanted by the protestors who continually pleaded for them to stop.
Of course this event would not be complete without mentioning that the FBI had drawn up backup plans of using silenced sniper weapons to take out the leaders of the OWS movement in Houston.
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At the moment they are very worried with the World Cup. There are two very dangerous laws that gained a lot of traction with the last demonstration, one is the Marco Civil (to some extent the Brazilian version of the terrifying spawn of SOPA and the Cybersecurity bills) and an anti-terrorism law that combined would be the wet dream of any dictatorship. Obviously they are ignoring the main source of such disruptions: the fact that we spend billions of dollars in a circus while our health system is in shambles, the education produces functional illiterates and our judicial/jail/law enforcement systems are broken resulting in very poor conditions for those who can't afford the private option of what the Government should provide as is written in the Constitution (our Constitution).
While terrible, what's happening here is hardly a surprise given our recent history for those who are following it.
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this is clearly the same thing which is going on here in Germany as well. It is not about the soccer thing but about the Ucrainian/US/EU/Russia-crisis. We have now round-about 30 cities in Germany in which we have Anti-War-Demos on every monday. What mass-media is doing is clearly as if they were instructed by CIA/BND/GCHQ or some other western governmental organisation: if they report about these demos at all, then only to tell stupidized listeners that all these people on the streets are right-winged people belonging to some Nazi-organisation. It really is a shame. We are now hundreds of thousends marching every monday and still they call us Nazis - although we are only marching because no one of use want to have a next war in the heart of Europe.
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Back to? This assumes the FBI stopped the activity, which is a foolish belief.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The only history lesson that remains factual over time.
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"Stop deals / ruin business relationships"
Yup, sure sounds like it to me. I knew it!
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(Sad thing is that might be the actual subtext they were going for.)
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If that were true before (I'm sure it wasn't), there should've been no doubt they would be doing offensive stuff once they created the "US Cyber Command" and then merged it with NSA...why do you think?!
The fact that Obama rejected the NSA review panel's suggestion to separate the two as soon as it came out and before his official speech, should tell you everything you need to know about his stance on this, and that he WANTS to do offensive stuff with the NSA.
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Israel is doing it too btw, but at least they openly admit it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YonLbe_DiFI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_ex1aXWois
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"Stop deals / ruin business relationships"
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Break up the NSA
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/02/breaking_up_the.html
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this surely makes every single thing that the government does brought into disbelief and removes any faith in whatever is done or said by the no1 person!
something else that i find a real piss take on the people is that no telecom company can tell you where tele sales calls, nuisance calls or any other 'out of the ordinary' calls come from. how can that be true when they allow NSA or whoever to have access to all calls and they can tell you whether you made a particular, at a particular time, to a particular number, what the call was about and whether you were having a crap at the time or not!!
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Too bad a few agents got caught infiltrating the Federal government (the biggest security breach in US history) and went to jail in the 1970s. It's a wonder why the government didn't just shut down and dismantle the entire cult operations right then and there.
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Actually, it wasnt very long after the failed "Operation Snow White" that Hubbard went into hiding. After he was out of the game a new shell corporation sprung up with a new board of directors which then took ownership of all the old copyrights owned by Hubbard.
And shortly after that the IRS suddenly recanted their years of persecution of Scientology and decided to grant the tax exempt status they had been seeking for decades.
So its quite possible that some of those in the government who originally wanted to dismantle Scientology had a change of heart and decided it served a better purpose to keep it going, only under entirely new management.
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Manipulative & Deceitful Headline
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No, as Greenwald's story explains, the presentations are by the GCHQ but *were presented to the NSA*. Hence my inclusion of it in the title.
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Now, before having a cow take note I do not dismiss at all the possibility that some US agencies may engage in such activities. Which ones though can only be speculated, and not identified with authority without more information.
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At best this makes you and the NSA look slightly less douchebaggy.
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I'd suggest that you take the time to understand what "REL TO USA" and "FVEY" mean.
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I absolutely they GCHQ and NSA are employing the tactics outlined in this document. If they got caught, it would be because they were doing such a bad job that the things they were doing had been traced back to them. I doubt they would be so careless.
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In a word: No.
Further, what has been and continues to be revealed is reprehensible. Discussion of those reprehensible revelations is not.
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You can call me what you want, but it's my opinion, not some type of bait to create a negative argument which will not support a true debate about where the United States is heading when it comes to internet and phone privacy.
Thank you for taking the time to read this
(Libertarian)
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Thanks, NSA.
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Doubt it stops at personal attacks
But seriously, anything they want to use to control individuals, groups or even the US population as a whole is obviously not morally out of bounds for those guys.
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so these clowns likely show up on comment sections on sites like this one. i'll have to keep that in mind.
i recall reading how the japanese power companies had their employees participate as general public in support of whatever crap ideas the companies wanted to foist on the public. unfortunately for the power companies, the word got out on that and the people there are extremely reluctant to be influenced that way now. i guess we are well down that path, huh?
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http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Israels-newest-PR-weapon-The-Internet-Megaphone
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Scientology's L Ron Hubbard created a policy titled "Fair Game" based on similar tactics used by the CIA. This was a policy that involved destroying the credibility any person deemed a threat, would possess. This involved the tactic of always attacking, so the other person is forced to be defensive. This also uses the tactic where if a person hears the same thing, but from multiple sources, they are more likely to believe it, which plays into the herd mentality.
The tactics that used to work so well for scientology no long work, and that's because people are aware of them, and the credibility gap has become too large. Like scientology, the credibility gap for these agencies keeps on getting larger.
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Could we have a show of hands?
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Deep politics
Essentially, open politics that we all see around us is the veneer. The real power is below the surface shrouded in secrecy. The tactic of discrediting is planting lies and disinformation. You can spot this happening when an "event" occurs and the reaction is a fast narrative and early facts long before there should be any. The guilty party has been identified; the narrative has been disseminated to the media. They all are saying the exact same thing in unison. There will be no investigation and when there is an investigation, it will be performed by the wrong participants.
Does this sound vaguely familiar?
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Re: Deep politics
Or 911?
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This is hilarious...
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Re: This is hilarious...
Maybe this is in fact what they want, as such groups are more easily manipulated--ie "conservative" media. It doesn't matter if the group is small, as long as they can reliably be cajoled to vote the way you want.
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When they start to tell your boss lies, when they start to affect your ability to put bread on the table? at what point huh?at what point?
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This dovetails with the fact that "national security" has increasingly been conflated with "economic interest". This in turn has also shifted from the economic interest of the people to the economic interest of the largest corporations. What then follows is that a corporation that wants to snub a group or individual simply has the "intelligence" agencies "leak" false information to the media, which then parrots it with hardly a modicum of scrutiny.
It's the perfect storm of public manipulation.
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I had trouble believing they were that stupid
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God
I worry about God's opinion and not at all public.
God has awakened and He says He wants His respect restored to what it was. God will play a public role. You done backed the wrong horse, CIA. Yer fucked. You better scramble to meet the new reality.
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Just Sayin' just hates it when due process is enforced.
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perversions and manufactured statistics
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Lol, no it doesn't. It confirms plain as fucking day that they do so. Further they aren't the only ones. Tumblr SJWs, JIDF (yes, it actually is real), and the nutbags in 4chan's /pol/ all love pulling the same shit. You can often detect it in action by watching for derailing comments, strawmen arguments, supposed supporters making terrible arguments, and even just people chiming in "me too" in order to make a certain opinion seem more popular than another.
The fact that our government decided to get in on the fun should surprise absolutely no-one given that governments are the most notorious purveyors of propaganda in history.
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batman reference on cover?
Reference to the Aurora / Joker Shooting?
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dismantle the NSA
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bravo
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teller
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All this Pwning and Owning all started with open source...
The cure is pretty simple, delete every single offensive piece of software used to cause harm to other systems and you successfully cripple the next penis that comes along wanting to do it!
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Blackmail/extortion, theft, character assassination....
All the rest of their time and effort and expense (paid for by American tax payers) is concerned with spying on, extorting and destroying the reputations and lives of Americans they don't like and foreign allies, stealing corporate secrets, and running errands for the entertainment industry.
One has to ask the question: who does the NSA really work for?
It is obviously not working for Americans, since the "adversary" it is attacking most often happens to be American citizens.
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Re: Blackmail/extortion, theft, character assassination....
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Re: Re: Blackmail/extortion, theft, character assassination....
I suppose rex48 and adex under the hoover and nixon administration where just conspiracy theory's too!
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Griftwald is a troll
Why believe...well facts...when you have some guy blogging from his gated Brazilian community.
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Enough said.
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Using internet to discredit
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New Policy = Blame GCHQ
Internet down? It's GCHQ.
Can't find your keys? It's GCHQ.
Milk spoiled? It's GCHQ.
Wife has a headache and isn't in the mood for sex? It's GCHQ.
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Department of Home Surveillance and Dirty Tricks
Instead, they proved immediately to the whole world, that all the documents confiscated by Snowden and released by the Guardian were 100% real and that the NSA was a criminal gang of incompetent juvenile assholes, by going after Snowden as if he was a mass murderer of babies.
This is what happens when fascist corporations teach graduate business students how to run a secret dirty tricks operation.
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What's a good place to declare political asylum?
T
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The T(oilet) Party
Obama is a republican ringer.
One need only view his admin's accomplishments to realize that the vast majority of its successes have been Republican wet dreams since Bush the first.
Had they (s)elected another Republican to office after Bush the Second, even the thinking-challenged members of the US public would have realized the voting system was fixed.
A black republican running as a democrat was the ticket.
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@GEMont / Post 125
Obama is your nightmare, and if he seems to uncomfortably resemble Bush, it's not because Obama is a Republican. It's because the Republican Party's leadership ditched its ideals after Reagan and took a Big Government Nixonian turn, which left it largely indistinguishable from the modern Democratic Party's offerings. It took Bush the 2nd to make us realize how deep the rot went and we've been trying to fix it ever since.
I suggest either cleaning house in your own party so you don't have another one (hey, that's what we're doing in ours), or seriously considering switching parties.
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Re: @GEMont / Post 125
"since most of us support a smaller government"
That its 100% bullshit should surprise nobody however, since you admit at the start to being a card carrying member of the Bullshit Party's A Team - the Republicans. Historically, they used to be the Democrats as far as their proclaimed mandate goes.
What you support is anything that will create a greater balance in your off shore accounts, just as the democrats do - the Bullshit Party's B Team. A party which historically was once the Republican Party, as far as their proclaimed mandate goes.
These "parties" are interchangeable, as they are simply private clubs composed of men and women who have already stolen millions from the public and desire more.
The purpose of Government is to insure the wealthy have a large population to exploit, and the name of the government Party in power is meaningless. One gang of millionaires is identical in its desires and needs to any other gang of millionaires.
This is why it was so easy to put in a ringer. The 2 party system was long ago corrupted to fulfill the desires of the wealthy at the expense of the citizens. The vote is a shell game, maintained as a placebo for the masses.
The corporations needed to complete the rewrite of American Laws to allow them to double and triple their ability to steal from the public and Bush was not done when his stolen term was over.
A ringer was needed because nobody in America would believe for one minute that another Republican was elected honestly after the destruction left by the 2 burning Bushes.
The Vote Scam would have been blown wide open, and that scam was one the wealthy had no desire to lose, as it was the only thing keeping the masses from sticking their heads on pikes along main street.
You are a businessman whose only desire is greater wealth.
As with your business, you know that any lie that works is a good lie. You are obviously a successful businessman, but just as obviously, you know that what you wrote was nothing more than a good lie, and for most here, it will indeed work.
America's - and indeed the world's - greatest problem is that the middle class has no desire to see an end to the excesses of the Upper Class, because they desire to someday BE the Upper Class.
The only question here is - are you already a member of the ruling class, or are you simply another middle class wannabe who desires entry into that exclusive club, and are willing to do "whatever it takes" to get there?
Rant over.
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Must be an NSA post, doing what they're hired to do.
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Thanks Anti-Vax Loons: The Return Of The Measles And The Backlash Against Jenny McCarthy
Gee, what a great way to communicate that you're incredibly stupid and make me despise your site.
M.D. directed medical treatments are the leading cause of death in the US.
This is why Dr. Joel Wallach put out an audio years ago entitled, "Dead Doctors Don't Lie."
He still asks the question, "Why would you go to man to ask him how to live longer when the less than 57 year death of doctors proves they can't give you a answer that works?
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Re:
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Woojoin.com
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What's with the logos
What's the deal with secretive agencies creating easily identifiable logos for their organization? Isn't that counter-intuitive?
That said, they are all fairly easily tracked down accept for that Red & Blue on White one in the top left corner with the SD on it. If you try to zoom in on it, at the bottom it looks like it says "Intelligence Defense Effects" but not entirely certain due to the blurring on the letters.
Does anyone know what this logo is for? I have tried multiple searches and keep coming up empty.
Logos don't get placed on sensitive documents just because someone was bored. I suspect there is much more to this...
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So organizations like NSA deliberately discredit people online?
What should we do? Weed out the idiots who somehow passed the rigid psychological testing and make sure they get canned, neutralized, sent back to the middle east, diego garcia, etc ... there are bad eggs - we can help by weeding them out. The sorts of folks who are currently committing acts of brutality in the police force - it's not a concerted effort by leadership to dictate.
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Re: So organizations like NSA deliberately discredit people online?
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Just add your 'social media profile' and stir
These profiles are now the faddy tools for our employers, as well as instructions for your local community mobers, otherwise called gang stalkers.
From our internet 'trolls' and other social engineering operatives, to Gang Stalkers in one fowl swoop with you as the hapless by-stander, having having absolutely no say in the matter.
If that weren't bad enough, you have our blaimless A.i as inbetweener, collecting disinformation as facts, for others to respond to, sight unseen, no questions asked, no quarter given. If you wanted to create radicals, you couldn't invent a better system. Of course we don't deal in radicaLies.
This is big brother, as no one dared to imagine it.
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People You DO Realize that this is blueprint of basic Soviet and RED propacanda that USA leaked by using their project Snowdan so youth would be able to understand how propacanda works
This is also the reason of many times mentioned @magicians@... Wizard tools more..
What You think how else should they save Your teenager minds from pentagram that is full packed hate, jealousy and violence with special TV tools and media where pentagram is in deep ? |
There is many dimensional things labors in USA and Russia working with, this in here is just simple explanations for common people, there is no @laking@ about it.. it was planned as it is planned for education for masses.
Just seems exotic for some because for them it was not basic to see and think these kind of levels, methods and tricks when 10 years old.
Seriously, we can do better much much better
But better does not always work better..
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