And Here We Go: Mozilla Felt Pressured Into Adopting DRM In HTML5

from the a-broken-system dept

Wed, May 14th 2014 1:20pm — Mike Masnick

We've written a few times about the unfortunate decision by the W3C to adopt DRM in HTML5 in an effort to keep Hollywood happy. While Tim Berners-Lee and others at W3C have tried to defend their reasons for doing so, they're all based on the faulty premise that somehow the internet needs Hollywood more than Hollywood needs the internet. The reverse is true, but Hollywood has convinced too many people of its own importance to the internet. Because of that -- along with the agreed-upon fact that today's plugin/extension system is a complete disaster from technological and security standpoints -- the W3C, pressured by a bunch of big companies, agreed to put DRM into the next generation of HTML (and don't buy their argument that it's not actually DRM -- the only purpose that Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) serves is to enable DRM).

Today there's a lot of discussion because Mozilla, makers of the popular (and open source) Firefox browser, have posted two separate blog posts about how they feel forced to adopt this DRM even though they hate basically everything about it. Mozilla's argument is not crazy. They're worried that by not adopting these standards, while all other browsers do, people will just shift to those other browsers. And beyond just losing market share, Mozilla has a point in noting that the way other browsers implement EME will be less secure than the way that Mozilla is doing it.

We have designed an implementation of the W3C EME specification that satisfies the requirements of the content industry while attempting to give users as much control and transparency as possible. Due to the architecture of the W3C EME specification we are forced to utilize a proprietary closed-source CDM as well. Mozilla selected Adobe to supply this CDM for Firefox because Adobe has contracts with major content providers that will allow Firefox to play restricted content via the Adobe CDM.

Firefox does not load this module directly. Instead, we wrap it into an open-source sandbox. In our implementation, the CDM will have no access to the user's hard drive or the network. Instead, the sandbox will provide the CDM only with communication mechanism with Firefox for receiving encrypted data and for displaying the results.

Traditionally, to implement node-locking DRM systems collect identifiable information about the user's device and will refuse to play back the content if the content or the CDM are moved to a different device.

By contrast, in Firefox the sandbox prohibits the CDM from fingerprinting the user's device. Instead, the CDM asks the sandbox to supply a per-device unique identifier. This sandbox-generated unique identifier allows the CDM to bind content to a single device as the content industry insists on, but it does so without revealing additional information about the user or the user's device. In addition, we vary this unique identifier per site (each site is presented a different device identifier) to make it more difficult to track users across sites with this identifier.

Mozilla is also making it opt-in -- so that everyone will have the choice to choose whether or not to activate the DRM implementation. Also, kudos to Mozilla for not taking the W3C path of pretending that EME isn't DRM. Mozilla is quite upfront that this is DRM and that they're uncomfortable with this. As Andreas Gal says:

we would much prefer a world and a Web without DRM...

But, Mozilla feels that users "need it to access content they want." Mitchell Baker similarly notes:

The new version of DRM uses the acronyms “EME” and “CDM.” At Mozilla we think this new implementation contains the same deep flaws as the old system. It doesn’t strike the correct balance between protecting individual people and protecting digital content. The content providers require that a key part of the system be closed source, something that goes against Mozilla’s fundamental approach.

Unfortunately, it appears that even though this is the case, Mozilla still believes that the internet needs Hollywood's locked up content more than Hollywood needs to adapt to the internet. That's too bad. Cory Doctorow has a very detailed discussion of why he thinks Mozilla made a mistake, while acknowledging all of the reasons why they did what they did. More importantly, he lists a number of additional things that Mozilla should do to improve the situation. I'll summarize those four things, because I agree wholeheartedly:

Protect security researchers: Thanks to the anti-circumvention provision of the DMCA, any security research into Adobe's DRM may be a form of infringement. As Cory notes, Mozilla should demand that Adobe issue a covenant not to sue security researchers or developers who find vulnerabilities.
Educate users: Teach everyone (including Hollywood, but mainly the public) why DRM is dangerous and harms security and privacy online. Personally, I'd add that Mozilla could also teach people why DRM is simply not necessary.
Research and publish the case for DRM: This goes back to the question of who really needs it. Hollywood thinks they do, but I don't think that's really true. As Cory says, Mozilla should look at the actual data to see if there truly is a use case for DRM.
Formulate and articulate a DRM policy: Basically don't make these kinds of decisions ad hoc -- but have a clear policy on how and when decisions like this get made.

For years, the music industry insisted it needed DRM, and folks like Apple catered to them -- and that actually just helped Apple have more power over the music industry. Finally, the music industry shed DRM and it had almost no impact. Today, the book industry has the same issue, demanding DRM... and basically handing market power to Amazon in providing that DRM. It's amazing that Hollywood still insists it needs DRM. It does not. Unfortunately, it by agreeing to implement DRM here, it means it will take much longer for Hollywood to learn this lesson.

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Filed Under: drm, eme, firefox, hollywood, html5
Companies: mozilla

84 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 1:28pm

I for one will not opt in to this DRM scheme. If for any reason I cannot access content I already paid for, well there's always piracy...
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- Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 1:39pm
  
  Re:
  While I will continue to vote with my wallet by not purchasing any content that treats buyers/end users worse than those who infringe upon copyright and are thus freed from the onerous and ineffective restrictions that treat customers as would be criminals.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 2:06pm
    
    Re: Re:
    I mostly do that myself, unless I happen to really like something. Now though, if it's locked behind DRM, I'll have to pirate it. There is no reason to punish the people who actually buy content with DRM when the pirates can just download a far more liberated version for free.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Seegras (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 6:01am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Simple. If you want to sell me something, don't do DRM, or I'll vote with my boots.
      
      And I might even vote with my boots against other of your products. Like not going to the cinema if you morons push DRM. Or not buying your book on paper because the ebook has DRM.
      
      No, I'm not going to use that EME for anything. And unless I can redirect streams in cleartext to my harddisk, I won't subscribe to any service that requires it.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 17 May 2014 @ 12:14am
  
  Re:
  Is it still piracy if you already paid for it? I would argue that it's not.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 1:32pm

Even if you only sip the cool aid...
you are still drinking it.

Make the browser switchable so that there is no DRM entirely until you decide to watch Hollywood DRM garbage, when when you switch to it... be sure to come up with a name for this mode that makes it clear what is going on.

Title it...

"Hollywood DRM Mode"

-or-

Shut up and put up if your only going to cry and moan, but actually do nothing.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 1:38pm

EME...
I actually had no idea what EME actually was until this post, but I saw it in my browser flags and went "that looks pretty sketchy and unneeded" so I disabled it.

I guess I was right.
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- Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 2:05pm
  
  Re: EME...
  "I saw it in my browser flags .. so I disabled it."
  
  How?
  
  I am under the impression that this is not implemented yet. E.g.
  
  "Gervase Markham wrote on May 14th, 2014 at 10:51:
  
  The exact user experience is still to be decided, but it will definitely not activate and run without you explicitly agreeing. You will be able to say No. "
  
  https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/05/reconciling-mozillas-mission-and-w3c-eme/
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 2:15pm
    
    Re: Re: EME...
    Because I'm not using Firefox :P
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - John Fenderson (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 3:02pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: EME...
      What are you using? If it's IE, Chrome, or Safari then you aren't avoiding it at all.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 3:10pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: EME...
        Opera - Chromium (reluctantly). You can disable it in opera:flags. I also still use Opera Presto, which I admittedly don't know if it supports it, though I highly doubt so.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 1:39pm

Mozilla just committed suicide
They're now shipping malware -- and THEY KNOW IT.

Get your attorneys ready.
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Baron von Robber, 14 May 2014 @ 1:45pm

I'll help them with their code.

if [HTMLver=5 & DRM=active] then run isntthatspecial

start 'isntthatspecial'

sleep=100

end
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- Seegras (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 6:03am
  
  Re:
  exactly, go waste my CPU cycles with total superfluous computations.
  
  I bet there's gigawatts wasted each year just for DRM.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 1:56pm

In this case, DRM is Hollywood's band-aid response to trying to keep information region-locked in a global marketplace.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 2:14pm

It's good to see Mozilla is being transparent about how they're implementing DRM into their web browser. I like how they're loading the CDM (content decryption module) into a sandbox, and also generating spoofed device fingerprints that are unique for every website. In order to prevent websites from tracking people's browsing habits.
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That One Guy (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 2:15pm

And add another reason to the list...
To never give Hollywood so much as a dime if it can possibly be avoided.

Still, assuming every site out there doesn't for some reason go DRM crazy, I can actually see a silver lining with this, as it'll help people know which sites and services to avoid.

'So I need to enable the DRM crap in order to access the site? Well, that sounds fair, let me just- oh, right, there's more options out there than the major companies would like you to believe, I think instead I'll just go to a different site and forget this one exists.'
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Groaker (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 2:16pm

Drivel
Almost all of the product of the entertainment industry is absolute twaddle. I wouldn't make use of it if it were DRM and dollar cost free.

I have no doubt that the people behind this industry know it. That they use DRM as a defense mechanism to salve their egos, and a means of pretending that what they produce is worth stealing, much less buying.
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Toby, 14 May 2014 @ 2:25pm

Just saying...
I agree with Drivel - most of the content or "entertainment" is crap anyway. Who not get out there and be entertained by life itself. I totally don't bet the b****ing about this stuff. Are you really that entitled to this stuff, which most is s*** anyway? Come on people.
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TheGymGeek (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 2:34pm

I feel that mozilla are going the way Mircosoft, then google went. They start off cool, a company everyone respects, but gradually get too big to maintain that status...
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John Fenderson (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 3:00pm

Well, it could be worse
I understand Mozilla's dilemma, and I don't fault them for doing this -- particularly since they've mitigated one of the worst aspects of EME: device identification. Also, they've allowed us to disable the EME extensions completely, which I will do immediately.
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- John Fenderson (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 10:58am
  
  Re: Well, it could be worse
  Now that I've read and thought more on this issue, I feel MUCH less charitable about it. I ow think that they've just sold us and their own ideal out. Of all of the bad decisions they've made about Firefox over the past few years, this is the only one that leads me to the conclusion that I need to stop using it, and that I need to stop giving money to Mozilla. If they can't stand up for what's right when it's tough to do so, then they can't stand up for what's right at all.
  
  They no longer share the ideals and goals of a free internet that I do. They are enabling just the opposite.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - jupiterkansas (profile), 17 May 2014 @ 5:06pm
    
    Re: Re: Well, it could be worse
    so from now on you will be using.... ?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
John Sullivan, 14 May 2014 @ 3:19pm

EME is not yet approved
Mike, EME has not yet been approved by the W3C. They are allowing it to move forward, but it is important for people to know there is still a chance to stop it.

If anything, Mozilla's announcement should embolden us in this area. We knew that W3C rejecting EME would not stop browser makers from implementing it anyway. Now that all the major ones have announced decision to do so, W3C should feel very able to reject EME to send a message that DRM is *not* part of the vision of the free and open Web.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 3:28pm
  
  Re: EME is not yet approved
  Yet, one can say that full implementation by all the major Internet browsers, even if they felt pressured to do so, is acceptance of EME in general. It will be tough to convince the W3C to not vote against it now that all the browsers will unfortunately support it.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- John Fenderson (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 3:31pm
  
  Re: EME is not yet approved
  "Mozilla's announcement should embolden us in this area."
  
  The problem is that if the major browser implement it even if it's not adopted in the standard (as it appears they're doing), then that basically guarantees that it will have to be adopted in the next version of the standard in order to ensure that all the implementations are in sync with each other.
  
  Mozilla's announcement, in other words, makes it more likely that we'll see widespread adoption even if it never gets the blessing of the W3C.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- That One Guy (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 3:58pm
  
  Re: EME is not yet approved
  On the contrary, the fact that so many companies are adopting it, even without the W3C approving it, makes it all the more likely that they will approve it, since so many major companies are basically saying that they've got no problem with it.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Michael Donnelly (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 4:41pm
    
    Re: Re: EME is not yet approved
    This is all on TBL. He knew that drafting the standard would cause the browsers to implement it before approval, one by one, as competitive forces pushed them.
    
    Still disappointed that he sold out after all he espoused up to that point.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - That One Guy (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 5:02pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: EME is not yet approved
      Indeed, and really, it's hard to see someone pushing for a DRM scheme like this as anything other than evidence that they've sold out and are just repeating what they're told, or that they've fallen for the laughably bad claims that somehow the net needs Hollywood more than Hollywood needs the net.
      
      For the first, corruption, the second, incompetence and gullibility, neither are very flattering possibilities.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 5:05pm

Firefox is open-source, right? Can't someone just fork a version without DRM, or DRM support, or whatever the heck this stupid thing is?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- That One Guy (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 5:14pm
  
  Re:
  From the sounds of it, that's actually fairly close to what they're planning, with it being opt-in, the only way it'll be turned on is if a user activates it themselves.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- G Thompson (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 10:00pm
  
  Re:
  Yes and it's being done already ( http://www.palemoon.org/)
  
  as for the DRM structure, well being sandboxed means it will be removable, analysed (no matter what the USA DMCA states - ie: not analysed in the USA) and routed around probably a day or so after implementation.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 17 May 2014 @ 12:36am
    
    Re: Re:
    Glad to hear about a viable alternative to FF, thanks for the link, although I couldn't find any reference to DRM or EME. It would be nice if Mozilla simply released a fully open source version along side this.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Pale Moon User, 19 May 2014 @ 12:13am
  
  Re: Anonymous Coward
  "Firefox is open-source, right? Can't someone just fork a version without DRM, or DRM support, or whatever the heck this stupid thing is?"
  
  There is, it's called Pale Moon.
  
  I started using this web browser after Firefox started that crap with the ads in the tabs. It's based on Firefox and all of my add-ons transfered over. Been happy ever since.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 19 May 2014 @ 8:00pm
  
  Re:
  "Firefox is open-source, right?"
  
  It used to be. With this change, they can no longer honestly make that claim. That's too bad, because being open source is what made a lot of people choose it over other browsers. Firefox will no longer have that going for it.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Carlos Sol�s a.k.a. ArkBlitz (in the rest of the I (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 6:54pm

Saddest part of this?
Know what's the worst part of this? No other major browser is committed enough to freedom, and the few free-software browsers that do are mostly GNU+Linux-exclusive. For example, the FSF's fork of Firefox, GNU IceCat.
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Roland, 14 May 2014 @ 6:57pm

ditch them
If you run a Debian-based linux you can remove firefox and thunderbird and install iceweasel and icedove, and avoid all this BS, and the FF29 blowup as well. What have I lost by doing so? Nothing, that I can see. You have to look out for your own interests.
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- The Wanderer (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 5:01am
  
  Re: ditch them
  All that gets you is (a somewhat modified version of) the ESR release line of Firefox. With the release of Firefox 31, there will be a new ESR release line, including everything that's in Firefox 31; no more than a couple of months after that, Iceweasel will be on 31 as well, with all of those changes.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- John Fenderson (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 7:11am
  
  Re: ditch them
  Iceweasel (what I use) is Firefox.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Prizm1 (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 8:54pm

Adios Firefox!
I said bye-bye to Firefox some months ago, following their announcement of the upcoming Firefox browser "value added feature" involving actively tracking you and using your tracking profile to provide you with relevant ads on the browser home screen.

All useful browsers now internally track you to some degree. I moved to Chrome. Chrome is faster. Although it is (yuck) Google, one of the reasons that I believe that the Chrome browser is faster is because it does not incorporate all the user tracking features that the other browsers have. Since Google has effectively become the Internet, Google does not need to have its browser internally laden with internal profiling user reporting tracking code. Whatever you surf to on the Internet, Google is already there on the server end to to collect your computer identifiable metadata.

Google's Chrome browser allows the end-user to access the Internet, but the Internet itself is Google's in-house browser.
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- John Fenderson (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 7:14am
  
  Re: Adios Firefox!
  "All useful browsers now internally track you to some degree."
  
  Firefox's tracking for those ads is entirely internal to your browser and machine. There are no plans to do the kind of tracking that web ads do. Moving to Chrome to avoid the Firefox ad plans is kindof dumb, as you're moving to a browser that does much more invasive tracking.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- John Fenderson (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 7:15am
  
  Re: Adios Firefox!
  "the Internet itself is Google's in-house browser."
  
  This isn't just wrong -- it's crazy wrong.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 15 May 2014 @ 10:30am
  
  Re: Adios Firefox!
  I said bye-bye to Firefox some months ago, following their announcement of the upcoming Firefox browser "value added feature" involving actively tracking you and using your tracking profile to provide you with relevant ads on the browser home screen.
  
  Mozilla changed their minds about ads in firefox.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - John Fenderson (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 10:55am
    
    Re: Re: Adios Firefox!
    "Mozilla changed their minds about ads in firefox."
    
    No, they have not. Look at what they're saying again: they're promising to experiment with the ads until they find a way to do it that they're happy with, then they will roll them out to everyone.
    
    The only thing they've changed their mind about is that they're not rolling them out on their original timetable. They're still going to roll them out.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 14 May 2014 @ 11:45pm

I'd just like to point out the justification.

But if we don't, our competitors might and gain more users.

"BUT MOOOOM ALL OF THE COOL KIDS ARE DOING IT!!!"

Seriously.
If all of the other browsers jumped off a bridge...

Perhaps having the balls to tell Hollywood NO, might have pushed the others to opt to not support it. Cause like there was this set of really fucking stupid laws and a buncha people got together to stop it... but it took someone to say No first.

Idiots.
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- The Wanderer (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 5:07am
  
  Re:
  Do you really believe Mozilla has that much leverage?
  
  You're right about the justification for this, though you've spun it backwards, but I think they're probably right in their reasoning: if everyone else supports this and Firefox doesn't, then the vast majority of people who encounter a video they can't play in Firefox and can play in something else will just use something else, and Firefox gets weaker (giving it even less leverage for next time).
  
  There are counterarguments to that; I saw one person already specifically state that the only reason he's stayed with Firefox over Chrome is Firefox's respect for his rights and his privacy, and that now with that dropped he will have no reason not to switch. It's very likely, however, that such people are by far in the minority.
  
  I do think Mozilla is trapped between a rock and a hard place here. The decision to incorporate EME support at all is a bad one, yes, but it may very well be the least of the available evils - and given that they implement it, they seem to be taking most reasonable measures to limit or otherwise minimize its negative impact.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - That Anonymous Coward (profile), 17 May 2014 @ 4:19am
    
    Re: Re:
    Perhaps if people actually stopped accepting this intrusive sort of crap, they might stop pushing it.
    
    At some point consumers need to say enough, no more and mean it. Do you think Netflix would keep pursuing this system if a large portion of their subscriber base cancelled the service specifically because of this reason?
    
    Everyone likes to talk about how this and that DRM are crap and horrible... but how many are willing to stop paying them money to make it clear it is not acceptable?
    
    We are allowing 1 industry unheard of control over everything to appease them. No matter how much we give up and accept from them, it is never enough. They want the impossible, and we keep humoring them instead of saying enough we're done.
    
    How much more are we willing to give up to appease groups who have expanded their rights well beyond what was ever imagined or intended? If a car maker demanded that we all had to use only 1 brand of tire to protect their "rights", there would be dramatic backlash... why are we so freaking meek to a group who create entertainment, gets the full price and still demands the right to control over how, where, when you are allowed to use what they sold you.
    
    It is time to stop shielding them from the reality that what they are doing is unacceptable, and we will no longer pay them if they continue the same course. They understand when they stop making money, and we should use this to finally get their attention and get change.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- M.U., 15 May 2014 @ 8:55am
  
  Re:
  Well said. Firefox was popular in the first place because it didn't do what all the other browsers were doing. It was simple and customizable. It it was great. But somehow, inexplicably, Mozilla decided Firefox would be better off as a carbon copy of Chrome.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - John Fenderson (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 9:10am
    
    Re: Re:
    It's not so inexplicable. I think there are two things going on here. Firefox' market share has fallen so that it is no longer the most-used browser. They want to reclaim their position as top dog, and the approach they're taking is to duplicate the current top dog as much as they can. I think this will backfire for the reasons you say, and we'll see Firefox' market share fall even further as a result.
    
    The other thing is that Mozilla is really trying to turn Firefox into something that it was never meant to be (and, in my opinion, shouldn't be): an operating system. Again, they're looking at Chrome and are trying to emulate Google's efforts in that direction.
    
    It's truly sad to see Mozilla screwing things up as badly as they are. They used to be a leader and a real force for good on the internet. They have pretty much given up both of those things now.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 14 May 2014 @ 11:51pm

Mozilla is doomed.
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Andypandy, 15 May 2014 @ 1:58am

YOU ARE ALL WRONG
Seriously, how blind can people be, this is not only about movies this will be a dream for the news sites where they demand people pay up before getting the news from their regular free sources, more sites will demand payment to view their content and use the drm to enable a system whereby you pay to access a bunch of sites.
Yes, it will also be used for access to video and used to lock down some websites unless people pay, but even then if it is used to block pirate sites or news sites that do not join the middlemen and pay up there will be a way very soon to hack into the drum structure and create an internet that has absolutely no payment systems,
I would advise the hackers not to release the hacks immediately, wait until Hollywood has created a few sites where there is content that can be downloaded and then once they have spent millions on releasing drum content break it open for everyone to access these sites with absolutely no payment, damn, I am sure just a simple few changes will break this drm just as every other form of drm has been broken , including the supposedly unbreakable Blu Ray DRM which was broken within days of it being released.

No worries everyone the pirates will keep the internet free from being locked down and content will only be more available than before.
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Ninja (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 4:37am

This sandbox-generated unique identifier allows the CDM to bind content to a single device as the content industry insists on

Nobody questions why the fuck it has to remain on a single device, no? Yet another reason for me to pirate the hell out of content I want to check out.
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- The Wanderer (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 5:08am
  
  Re:
  Oh, people question that, but the "content industry" either doesn't answer or provides bogus answers (which they may nonetheless believe in).
  
  Since the content industry are the ones who control whether and in what form to release the content, they get the veto.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
frank87, 15 May 2014 @ 5:11am

Can't we fix firefox so everybody has the same Id?
That should fix DRM...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- The Wanderer (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 5:58am
  
  Re:
  I had the same thought, and it should be entirely possible to recompile the "sandbox" wrapper (which is apparently going to be a separate component, not part of Firefox directly although it may be shipped with it) to just provide the same ID in all cases, or do other things as you see fit.
  
  However, from what's said in the second of the two linked Mozilla blog posts, there appear to be claims that the black-box "Content Decryption Module" will in some way take steps to verify the "sandbox"; if it doesn't match what the CDM expects, the CDM will refuse to decrypt the stream.
  
  It's not clear how the CDM will go about doing that, since allegedly the only information the CDM will have access to is what the "sandbox" provides it via the EME API, but I imagine the people behind the system would already have thought of that; if they're still confident that they can do it, they're probably right.
  
  Even if that verification is as simple as a basic hash, it would be prohibitively difficult to modify the "sandbox" in a way that would do what we'd want but would still validate the same way as the unmodified one.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- John Fenderson (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 9:13am
  
  Re:
  And once that device ID is blacklisted, none of the browsers using it will be able to show that content anymore.
  
  The better solution is for people to use browsers that don't implement EME or that let you turn it off, and to actually turn it off. For extra impact, don't pirate the stuff either. Screw the bastards demanding this abomination. They don't deserve your money.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 May 2014 @ 6:42am

lol the anti-drm kiddies are on the rampage again. I guess we'll see a billion new posts over how it prevents them from stealing content.
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- John Fenderson (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 7:18am
  
  Re:
  Once again, the objection to DRM is not that it prevents people from stealing content. Especially since it doesn't do that.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 15 May 2014 @ 9:15am
    
    Re: Re:
    Yeah, it the amount of things that DRM prevents people from doing is ZERO. Well, one, if you count whining about it on tech blogs even though it has absolutely no negative connotations.
    
    People will just look for anything to try to rationalise content theft though.
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    - John Fenderson (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 9:20am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      "the amount of things that DRM prevents people from doing is ZERO."
      
      If that were true, then there would be no objection. It's not true, though. It doesn't prevent piracy, but it does prevent a lot of other perfectly legal and acceptable activities.
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      - Anonymous Coward, 15 May 2014 @ 3:05pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        There will never be "no objection" because the anti-drm kiddies will always rant against it because they have no clue about what they're talking about.
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        John Fenderson (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 3:44pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        I don't see a lot of complete ignorance amongst the serious debaters on either side of the debate, so I wonder who you are talking about. Who are these "anti-drm kiddies"?
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        Anonymous Coward, 17 May 2014 @ 1:06am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Hmm, 'kiddies that have no clue about what they're talking about'...
        
        For everyone's sake, you need to take some English classes. Theft is not defined the way you seem to think it is. DRM only affects anyone with DRM-containing content. Believe it or not, kiddie, there are actually people who pay for things, then get the DRM-free version so they can actually use and enjoy what they paid for. Claiming that people of any given age have no clue what they're talking about, and then claiming that DRM doesn't prevent anything, simply makes it clear that you have no clue. Try harder.
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- That One Guy (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 1:05pm
  
  Re:
  You are aware that no-one other than really gullible morons in suits actually believes that DRM in any way prevents piracy, right?
  
  DRM doesn't do squat to stop pirates, as it has to be cracked all of once before it's no longer an issue, the only people DRM actually affects is legitimate customers, so really, you can stop with the 'DRM is to stop piracy!' myth, no one's buying it.
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- Anonymous Coward, 16 May 2014 @ 3:38pm
  
  Re:
  your a fucking cunt
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Anonymous Coward, 15 May 2014 @ 8:41am

Sad that they cite "market share" as a major concern...
...when so many of their other recent changes seem actively designed to reduce market share, by angering their long time users for no real gain. As examples:

- Australis
- Frequent UI "change for the sake of change" with no actual improvements
- Copy whatever Chrome did this week
- Add social networking as a core feature, but drop popular features with the justification that "you should just install an add on to put it back"

Also, obligatory since no one has mentioned it here (credit to LWN post by pabs for the link): http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2014/05/14/to-serve-users.html
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The Wanderer (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 8:55am

There's discussion going on on the mozilla-governance mailing list (also accessible as the mozilla.governance newsgroup, on news.mozilla.org) about this, including participation by Mozillians, both ones involved in this decision and ones who were not. There have been some interesting points brought up there so far, and I think it may be worth following.
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Jim B., 15 May 2014 @ 12:46pm

There's an easy answer
Firefox does not need to add the DRM. Them doing so will likely hurt their marketshare more than help, so they have that reversed. But there is an easy answer.

Compile one with DRM and one without and give the users the choice. Call one FirefoxEME and the other just Firefox.
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- John Fenderson (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 1:46pm
  
  Re: There's an easy answer
  In effect, they are doing exactly that, only with a single executable. What they're talking about is including the EME framework but not enabling it by default. If you want to use it, you have to specifically opt in.
  
  But that doesn't address the two major problems with this: the betrayal of their own principles, and the fact that they're helping to guarantee that EME will be a part of the HTML standard.
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pouar (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 1:08pm

Why do they need DRM? I don't use Cable and most DVDs and Bluerays because of DRM. And the internet is way more important to me than some greedy bastards forcing DRM on everyone.
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- John Fenderson (profile), 15 May 2014 @ 2:52pm
  
  Re:
  Because unless they do this, you won't be able to use Firefox to watch Netflix and such. Their (probably justified) fear is that since Netflix and Hulu are incredibly popular, if you can't use them with Firefox, people will switch to a browser that you can use them with.
  
  It's understandable for a company that is in it to make a profit. Mozilla, however, is not supposed to be about that. They style themselves as defenders of a free and open internet. That they are willing to throw that under the bus to avoid taking a hit in terms of market share is just hypocrisy.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 16 May 2014 @ 6:44am
    
    Re: Re:
    They might be a non-profit, but they still need revenue to keep operating. And the market share will affect those revenue streams.
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    - John Fenderson (profile), 16 May 2014 @ 7:07am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      This is true, but it's not an existential problem for them. The worst case is that they'd have to give up some their very expensive, speculative, and (in my opinion) relatively unimportant projects, such as making a mobile phone and OS.
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Lee Reynolds, 15 May 2014 @ 1:15pm

Nothing new here
Mozilla has a history of capitulating to squeaky wheels, just ask Brendan Eich.

That being said, I can't really say that I care one way or the other about this issue. I'm not hostile to the concept of intellectual property, but neither do I believe it should be perpetual. The problem with DRM is not that it protects IP, but that it provides a technological means to make that IP defacto eternal, even after the copyright has expired.
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Alan, 15 May 2014 @ 2:42pm

Book industry DRM
"Today, the book industry has the same issue, demanding DRM... and basically handing market power to Amazon in providing that DRM." - and the traditional publishers are losing market share, steadily, to independent non-DRM ebook publishers.
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Jake Drake, 15 May 2014 @ 2:49pm

Mozilla DRM
The Mozilla crowd has shown it's lack of concern and its cowardice. Time to go. Bye-bye.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 May 2014 @ 4:56pm

"Today, the book industry has the same issue, demanding DRM... and basically handing market power to Amazon in providing that DRM."

Actually, not all of the book industry is doing this. Baen has always offered DRM free content from authors who write excellent science fiction.
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Winston Smith, 15 May 2014 @ 10:41pm

Back to work.
Day as usual. I think we are at everlasting war with Eastasia today...
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- OrganizedThoughtCrime (profile), 17 May 2014 @ 1:17am
  
  Re: Back to work.
  We have always been at war with Eastasia.
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  - Winston Smith, 18 May 2014 @ 1:19pm
    
    Re: Re: Back to work.
    Which, as everybody knows, is doubleplusungood.
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OrganizedThoughtCrime (profile), 17 May 2014 @ 1:20am

Here is another good article from the Free Software Foundation on this and DRM in general.
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Yoshord, 17 May 2014 @ 6:02pm

I mostly use Internet Explorer. However, cheezburger.com comments don't work in IE, so when I want to see cheezburger comments, I use Iron or Firefox (whichever one the feature happens to be working with on that day's particular phase of the moon) for Cheezburger, while still using my main for everything else.

I imagine a similar situation would occur if Firefox were my main, I actually cared about Netflix and Netflix didn't work on Firefox; something not-Firefox for Netflix and Firefox for everything else.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 May 2014 @ 7:54am

I need a new web browser
As soon as I saw this story I went to install Chrome, until I decided to check if Chrome had DRM in it as well, and found it it does.

Now I'll have to find a new web browser that doesn't support DRM or HTML5, and get everyone to switch to it to protest DRM.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 May 2014 @ 8:11pm

Fork
Thinking more about it, I think it's time to fork Firefox to a new open source browser. No one should donate *anything* to the Mozilla Foundation any more. Let Mozilla get support from their new buddies at Adobe.
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