Why Was The DOJ So Fearful Of Its Terrorist Watchlist Guidelines Being Made Public?
from the not-because-it-helps-terrorists dept
Having already discussed The Intercept's publication of the federal government's guidelines for declaring people terrorists to put on its various watchlists (including the infamous "no fly list"), it's raising some serious questions about why the DOJ had been fighting so hard to keep these guidelines from coming out. As we've discussed, in basically any case challenging the various government watchlists, the DOJ has freaked out and claimed "state secrets" to try to get the cases thrown out entirely.Just a few months ago, Attorney General Eric Holder directly claimed that revealing these guidelines would be helping the terrorists. In that legal filing, Holder does the "state secrets" dance and then says:
I agree with the FBI that the Watchlisting Guidance, although unclassified, contains national security information that, if disclosed, for the reasons discussed in the FBI's classified declaration, could cause significant harm to national security.... If the Guidance were released, it would provide a clear roadmap to undermine the Government's screening efforts, a key counterterrorism measure, and thus, its disclosure reasonably could be expected to cause significant harm to national security.Of course, now that the Watchlisting Guidance is out, we can take a look and see if that's actually true. And... Holder's statements, not surprisingly, appear to be completely bogus. The Guidelines are so vague and so broad that it gives no real indication of how to get around them or whether or not any particular person is likely to be placed on the list.
What the guidelines do show, however, is the level of extra scrutiny people on the list are subject to. And, as we noted, much of that certainly appears to violate the 4th Amendment (or, at the very least, open itself up to a pretty clear 4th Amendment challenge in the courts). So, once again, it seems like Holder's real reason to declare "state secrets" had little to do with "national security" and a hell of a lot to do with "DOJ security" in keeping its illegal and unconstitutional practices from further public and judicial scrutiny.
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Filed Under: doj, eric holder, no fly list, terrorism watchlist, terrorist, tsdb, watchlist, watchlisting guidance
Reader Comments
The First Word
“Holder
Eric Holder is, like most of the current President's appointees, the most incompetent person ever to hold the position he was appointed to.And... yes... just this month, he played "the race card"... which like mentioning Nazi's online... means you've already lost the argument.
If you can't agree or disagree with someone's philosophy, opinion, actions or otherwise without invoking race, or defend YOUR OWN philosophy, opinion, or actions without invoking race - then you've lost.
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this revelation...
.gov guidelines are about as revelational as the ending of a Friday the 13th movie.
Shame on them!
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I think he is at least partially correct. It gives litigants a clear roadmap to [rightly] undermine the Government's [illegal] screening efforts.
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The real reason for over classification is secrecy. If laws and executive orders don't full comply with the US Constitution, just keep those laws a secret.
If you're blowing American taxpayer money left and right like a drunk sailor and using that money to spy on the very people funding the project. Just keep the Black Budget a secret.
Heck, even trade agreements are classified these days. If you're attempting to bone people all over the world, by-passing their democratically elected representatives using international corporate tribunals. Just keep the trade agreements a secret.
Ruling from the shadows is so much easier. You can lie and deny everything... unless Edward Snowden comes along and starts shining a spot light round.
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Parallel to that
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Sorry
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Re: Ok...
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why ? ? ?
geez, don't you moon flowers know nuthin' ? ? ?
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Re:
WE ARE extremely gullible.
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Re: Calling your bluff
Empty words.
If you want to see *real* change, it is probably easier to affect change within the current system.
Now before anyone jumps all over that last statement, let me be clear: I'm not talking about calling your local representative or any of that nonsense.
I'm talking about trolling: Convert to Islam and start using the name "Eric Holder" as your alias.
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Holder
And... yes... just this month, he played "the race card"... which like mentioning Nazi's online... means you've already lost the argument.
If you can't agree or disagree with someone's philosophy, opinion, actions or otherwise without invoking race, or defend YOUR OWN philosophy, opinion, or actions without invoking race - then you've lost.
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Re:
Still, th' Feebies themselves distrustin the courts? Tis a cold day in Hell, lad!
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The National Security card is a very easy and convenient way to remove cases from court without having to fight over it or reveal anything in the line of evidence.
Without exposure of just what they are doing, you can not bring a valid reason to court to fight it. When National Security doesn't work, then stonewalling works pretty good to prevent it from coming out.
I am beginning to view the Obama administration in the same light as the Nixon administration. There's just too much being hidden consistently, not to suspect there are some well hidden things going on that shouldn't be. The more is revealed, the stronger my suspicions are. I dare say I am not the only one in this nation with this viewpoint.
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Re: Holder
Overreach much Jasmine?
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Re: race
I do not intend that point as an anti-racism argument. A person's genetic ethnicity is WHOLLY IRRELEVANT. There are many cultural and societal differences among people, such as religious or financial background, access to education or relative learning ability (etc.), that may have strong bearing on a given situation. But to say that any of those cultural or societal differences are the strict result that a person is a member of any general genetic grouping is patently false.
"It's not the color of a man's skin it's the man inside that you must know." -- Someone Said
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Re:Look at who and what we keep voting in...
Nobody with any honor or integrity wants to run for office in this country.
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how many people in..
After each name, All I tend to see is the word, LAWYER..which does not tell me if the person can Fill a bag with groceries..or balance HIS OWN check book.
i love the watch list..
A list of names, that could correspond to as many as 100 people..With no Identifiers as to the PERSON they are REALLY listing..
no picture, no finger prints, no descriptions..
JUST a name.. Thats like Yelling the name of a person in a MALL..."HEY BILL", and 3-4 people turn to see who is yelling at them..
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Re: Re: race
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Re: Holder
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Re:
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Re: Re: Re: race
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Re: Sorry
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Re: Holder
Eh.... I'm not so sure, I think Alberto Gonzalez might have been even more incompetent.
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Re:
Not to disagree with your overall point, but the reason for all classification is secrecy - that's kind of what it means.
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DOJ, doh!
Wow! Never saw that coming!
I mean.... hooda thunk it huh!!!
The Department of Justice, dealing in Injustice and Lying and Covering things up.... why, its enough to make one wonder just who the DOJ is actually working for and for that matter, exactly what their job really is.
Its pretty obvious who they're working against, but its no longer readily apparent what their mandate actually is.
Too bad there's no such thing as a Tax Strike.
You know, the kinda strike where everyone just withholds their taxes until such time as they get a legally binding assurance from the Most Transparent Administration In American History that no taxpayer's money will be used to fund such agency corruption in future.
That'd really piss off the greedy bastards.
Sigh. Oh well, like Justice In America, a Tax Strike is a nice Fantasy to imagine.
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