DHS Wants To Expand 'See Something, Say Something' To Retailers Selling You Pressure Cookers

from the well,-more-than-they-do-already dept

Fri, Sep 12th 2014 5:59am — Tim Cushing

"See something, say something" continues to be the Dept. of Homeland Security's favorite words. Concerned that its sprawling reach and 100-mile, border-encompassing "Constitution-Free Zone" aren't protective enough, it has routinely called on the American people to report anything suspicious activities their fellow Americans might be participating in… like taking pictures of public structures… or using a hotel's side exits.

Now, the DHS wants to take it further. The DHS wants to turn every retail store into the haphazard debacle that is the TSA's screening process. No, store employees won't be frisking your kids or detaching medical equipment from your friends and neighbors, but they will be making uninformed decisions about your purchases. (via Ben Swann)

Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said his department will be issuing new guidance to retailers this week giving them pointers on how to spot potential terrorists among their customers by looking at what they're buying.

While saying the government cannot prohibit sales of some everyday materials, Mr. Johnson said retailers should be trained to look for anyone who buys a lot from what he described as a "long list of materials that could be used as explosive precursors."

He said it was an extension of the "If you see something, say something" campaign launched by his predecessor, former Secretary Janet Napolitano, which tries to enlist average Americans to be aware of their immediate environment.

Since it would be impossible to train thousands of retail store employees properly, this will likely take the form of an item watchlist, one that will be constantly subject to change. It will probably also instruct employees to view perfectly normal shopping behavior as suspicious.

As has been the result of previous "see something, say something" efforts, this new directive will create another massive database of false positives for Fusion Center employees and local law enforcement to deal with. Johnson specifically cited pressure cookers (while stating the government couldn't actually forbid their sale) as one example. If so, then this directive has no chance in hell of catching terrorists and is guaranteed to serve up a lot of unsuspecting (and unsuspicious) consumers for further government examination.

Pressure cookers are a legitimate item that thousands of consumers use. Now, they're viewed as the equivalent of buying a U-Haul truck full of fertilizer. Past incidents are prompting future actions, much as they do with the TSA (shoe bomber? off with your shoes!). Constantly being one step behind the clumsiest terrorists isn't going to keep the country any safer. It's just going to make it a worse place to simply "go about your business."

Johnson says the DHS is looking for "explosive precursors," which could be nearly anything. Because retail outlets don't share customer purchase data with each other, this may result in the DHS attempting to justify the requisition of data from multiple retailers using credit/debit card numbers as a starting point. (Just business records, folks. No Fourth Amendment to see here.) And as has been common for forever now, people using cash to purchase stuff will be viewed as extra suspicious.

This is another dangerous, stupid step that won't catch terrorists but will generate tons of budget-justifying busywork for the DHS, and put more people on the government's radar who've done nothing more suspicious than buy things they need or want.

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Filed Under: dhs, explosive precursors, homeland security, jeh johnson, pressure cookers, retailers, see something say something

62 Comments

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TheResidentSkeptic (profile), 11 Sep 2014 @ 6:11pm

See how fast this will grow...
1) Grocery Stores... I can buy a gallon of ammonia and a gallon of chlorine...
2) Big-Box Stores... I can buy brake fluid and pool shock in major quantities. Know how exothermic that is?
3) Home Improvement/hardware ... They sell Acetone and MEK by the gallon! you know how much fun I have with that stuff?

These folks are WAY behind the curve... there are thousands of possibilities out there that we need to be protected from...

And I just thank God (or Allah or whoever) that they are finally going to protect me from Grandma and her pressure cooker full of cabbage!! That stuff is REALLY explosive...

/s
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silverscarcat (profile), 12 Sep 2014 @ 2:33am

Well...
Time to buy everything with paper money again.
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Michael, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:06am

I'm glad I read this.

I was just about to go buy a pallet full of pressure cookers. I should get cash first so I don't have to use a credit card.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:10am

The DHS seem to be desperate to catch a terrorist, and so they are going to drive otherwise normal people to terrorism by being totally obnoxious.
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Guardian, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:11am

hail hitler
yes you too can help the state , ask not what we can do fo ryou cause we won't , you WILL do it for us cause if you don't you are the enemy.
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andrew_duane (profile), 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:15am

Be careful what you ask for
I say the way to combat this stupidity is to give the DHS exactly what they want. Let's see how they handle a few hundred thousand reports a day every day for the next year. Spun this way, every box of nails, every roll of duct tape, every bottle of bleach is a potential terrorist threat.

"When the gods want to punish us, they answer our prayers".
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:20am

Re: hail hitler
Rest assured, people asking what the state can do for them is what got us into this shit in the first place.

If you won't defend yourself then you should not expect others to do it either.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:20am

household precursors?
table salt has chlorine,
and of course water has hydrogen!
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:22am

Re:
Every US citizen is already suspected,
is how they justify collecting data and spying on everyone
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Michael, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:26am

While I was filling up a 30 gallon container with flammable liquid this morning, I think DHS was watching...
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Eric Stein, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:35am

Re: See how fast this will grow...
Well, not until it's been through you...

Roughage, it won't have any exothermic potential if you don't eat it.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:35am

Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said his department will be issuing new guidance to retailers this week giving them pointers on how to spot potential terrorists among their customers by looking at what they're buying.

I think they aren't taking it far enough. They should be going after the retailers for supplying terrorists. Better go after Wal-mart, Target, and all the others! Throw the ownership in Guantanamo! /s

Seriously fuck this stupid security theater bullshit.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:37am

Alternative Narrative
"If everyone had a pressure cooker nobody would think twice about causing trouble"
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:38am

Re:
I seriously just bought two pressure cookers yesterday, with cash, for my wife and her mom. So. Probably on some list already, though good luck trying to find m- oh wait someone is knocking at the door.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:42am

'"See something, say something"'

add on 'then get shot or if lucky locked up' and i think that would cover most times!!
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That One Guy (profile), 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:47am

Or as the government likes to call it 'Creating job security'
They should just follow the FBI's lead and make their own, much easier and more reliable that way.

Not to mention they'd never have to worry about money troubles again, any time a budget review is on the horizon, just go crazy hunting, spin up a few 'terrorists', and instant boost to PR for 'stopping the dangerous terrorists'. /s
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:49am

Will lead to citizen on citizen assaults.
Cant wait till a "citizen employee" decides that a pressure cooker buyer isnt responding to their questions properly and decides to execute a "terrorist" in the middle of walmart to protect all of us.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:51am

The pressure is mounting quickly here in the US.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:52am

Re: Alternative Narrative
Adding that to my weekend shopping list now.
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OolongKaloofid, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:54am

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

George Orwell was right, just a bit early with his prediction.

I think Germany started like this in the 1930's. See something, say something.

Let's drive DHS crazy - have lunch at a Middle Eastern restaurant weekly.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 6:54am

Re: Will lead to citizen on citizen assaults.
Killed for Shopping While Brown
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 7:01am

I already get funny looks when I use cash at certain places and refuse to give them my zip code.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 7:05am

So they want the public to be aware enough to help them with TERRORISM©™ but oblivious to the fact that they themselves are the terrorists.
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David, 12 Sep 2014 @ 7:08am

Re:
I already get funny looks when I use cash at certain places and refuse to give them my zip code.

At certain places taking cash they will have problems providing adequate return value when you insist on keeping zipped up.

Way to get funny looks.
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David, 12 Sep 2014 @ 7:10am

Re:
Ah, but it's under-the-counterterrorism.
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ThruthHurts, 12 Sep 2014 @ 7:13am

Your phones will be on the watchlist
Lithium Ion batteries can be easily modified to be explosive / high temp fire ignition sources. You don't need a bomb if you can set fire to the entire airplane with a few modified cell phones or laptops.
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Michael, 12 Sep 2014 @ 7:21am

Re: Your phones will be on the watchlist
iPhones can be turned into deadly guns too.
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Joel, 12 Sep 2014 @ 7:51am

I find this new policy to be racist! (Against asians though, so at least they are changing it up a little)

Seriously though, I bought 3 pressure cookers in the last year or so. All were combination rice cookers/pressure cookers.

One was a replacement for my own rice cooker that bit the dust.

The other two were wedding/xmas gifts.

I guess being addicted to rice with every meal is going to get me the no fly list...
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OldGeezer (profile), 12 Sep 2014 @ 7:53am

What's next?
Someday some idiot will smuggle a bomb onto a plane up his ass. Cavity searches for everyone will become mandatory.
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The Original Anonymous Coward (profile), 12 Sep 2014 @ 7:58am

Watch for signs on store and bank doors
The next thing will be signs on the doors of stores and banks saying that pressure cookers are not allowed in their establishments. That will certainly prevent anyone from attempting to use said device in a criminal enterprise.
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That One Guy (profile), 12 Sep 2014 @ 8:03am

Re:
You left off a few words.

...but oblivious to the fact that they themselves are the terrorists, and in fact are the only terrorists that have ever posed a real threat to the country.
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Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 8:06am

I wonder...
...what they think about the nitro-glycerin tablets I carry for my heart condition?
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David M, 12 Sep 2014 @ 8:30am

Two way street
Dear TSA, Target just sold me 2 GALLONS of bleach and 3 GALLONS of ammonia. They are OBVIOUSLY a TERRORIST FRONT!!!
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LduN (profile), 12 Sep 2014 @ 8:38am

Concerned that its sprawling reach and 100-mile, border-encompassing "Constitution-Free Zone" aren't protective enough

Constitution-Free Zone? You mean the US constitution doesn't apply withing these borders? I thought something had changed since I last went there...
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 8:41am

This doesn't surprise me.

http://www.privacysos.org/node/424

and from this article:

http://www.securityinfowatch.com/article/10702225/minneapolis-safezone

I'm guessing a lot of the big box retailers are directly wired into a fusion center so law enforcement and "third parties" can get at all this info in the name of . . .
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Bengie, 12 Sep 2014 @ 8:43am

Re: See how fast this will grow...
Don't forget to report anyone purchasing gasoline. They're all potential terrorists.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 9:01am

Re: I wonder...
Apparently that would require about a warehouse full of pills to distill any useful quantity. But they're all fascist morons looking for excuses to persecute so that might not matter.
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Trevor, 12 Sep 2014 @ 9:11am

So...
Can I assume that anyone who shops at Home Depot or Lowes is now on some sort of watch list?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 9:16am

Re:
It's a name given for land within some 100 miles of the U.S. border, where the border patrol has pretty much free reign with regards to searching whatever they want.

Of note that certain states, such as Florida, lie entirely within this zone.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 9:47am

Re: Well...
----Time to buy everything with paper money again.

Retailer: "We have this suspicious dude here"
DHS: "What makes him suspicious?"
Retailer: "This guy always buys pressure cookers, bleach, ammonia, food and sometimes lighters and cigarettes"
DHS: "Oh, so you think he might be making a bombs and poisonous substances?"
Retailer: "No, he always pays with cash!"
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Mick McNulty, 12 Sep 2014 @ 10:01am

Pressure cookers
Don't forget spoons. These explosive mixes have gotta turned with a spoon. Everyone who owns a spoon is a suspect and if you own more than one you've got some explaining to do.
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aldestrawk (profile), 12 Sep 2014 @ 10:28am

Not only can we use purchase of pressure cookers to catch terrorists, it can also help in the war on drugs. A pressure cooker can be used as a cheap autoclave to sterilize equipment used to grow certain kinds of mushrooms (don't ask me how I know this). I seem to remember a story that the police were able to get a search warrant based on purchases of large amounts of baggies.
Forget about training sales clerks. Just have the government provide incentives to businesses to expand their customer loyalty programs which allow the business to gather everyone's purchases in a, 3rd party business records, database. If all goods cost twice as much unless you provide your loyalty account info, who is going to purchase anonymously except terrorists and other criminals? Of course, this requires those loyalty accounts to reliably tied to your actual identity.
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Whoever, 12 Sep 2014 @ 10:33am

Diesel fuel?
So they want gas stations to report anyone buying diesel fuel?
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aldestrawk (profile), 12 Sep 2014 @ 10:41am

Re:
p.s. contact me if you're interested in anonymously purchasing a 28 quart pressure cooker. I do require proof of religious affiliation first. Atheists are OK unless, they also communists or anarchists.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 10:59am

Pressure cooker alert elevated .
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 11:07am

I think a list is needed to see which companies are on-board with profiling their customers.
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art guerrilla (profile), 12 Sep 2014 @ 11:09am

Re: See how fast this will grow...
does DHS know that flour is not only an 'explosive precursor', it IS explosive all on its own...
takes the right conditions, but then so do nearly all explosives...
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wec, 12 Sep 2014 @ 11:31am

'see something, say something', remember Snowden saw something and said something.
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Michael, 12 Sep 2014 @ 11:45am

Re: Diesel fuel?
I'm pretty sure gas stations need to report everyone that buys anything they sell.
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Michael, 12 Sep 2014 @ 11:46am

The next time there is a pressure cooker on Woot.com, is the terror level going to go up?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 12:02pm

Re:
That doesn't count because the something he saw and said belongs to the ruling class who are above the laws.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 12 Sep 2014 @ 12:19pm

The Iron Law of Bureaucracy
Wow, the DHS went really fast from the doing-their-job stage to the ensuring-the-agency-persists stage. I suspect because other than "fight terrorism" they didn't have a clear function.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Sep 2014 @ 1:12pm

Re: Your phones will be on the watchlist
if you have a phone, you are on the watchlist
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phils, 12 Sep 2014 @ 1:49pm

Re:
Perfectly reasonable explanation for using cash at places like Home Depot and Target -- Don't want my credit card hacked.
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John85851 (profile), 12 Sep 2014 @ 3:50pm

1930's Germany all over again
I really hate to say this, but between this article about "see something, say something" and the previous article about a secret court secretly ordering Yahoo to pay a secret fine, it does seem like this country is becoming more like 1930's Germany.

Of course the government is doing these things to "keep us safe"... I mean "make us feel safe", but how far is too far? Will the next step be ratting out your friends to the (secret) police because you saw them buy a pressure cooker?
And why do we have to jump to the conclusion that most people are doing something bad when one person used a pressure cooker as a bomb?

Or do we have to wait until the government asks us to report something more idiotic before we "say something" about how absurd it is to report someone for buying a kitchen appliance!
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Uriel-238 (profile), 12 Sep 2014 @ 4:28pm

It could never happen here.
Don't forget the bit about law enforcement officers being regarded as a different, elevated caste of citizen who does not have to conform to the same laws that civilians do.

And don't forget that the Jewish Question is being posited, this time about a wide range of people allegedly subversive ergo undesirable to society, whether it's non-whites, the impoverished, fringe religions and atheists, counter-cultures, computer hackers including white-hats and dissidents of the current administration.

It keeps me awake at night that our state is so opaque, and revelations have already come out showing the depths to which our nation will descend, that I wouldn't actually be surprised if we already had an eradication program in place, if a final solution program has already been enacted.

But relax. It could never happen in the US!
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TestPilotDummy, 12 Sep 2014 @ 5:38pm

Deactivate the DHS
They were never needed, they were oath breakers from the birth.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Sep 2014 @ 6:04am

America, sort out your shit! These people work for you!
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John Fenderson (profile), 13 Sep 2014 @ 11:29am

One thing I know
If the DHS wants me to do anything at all, especially ratting out my fellow citizens without evidence of wrongdoing, then I am disinclined to do that thing without long, hard consideration.

The DHS is not to be trusted.
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GEMont (profile), 13 Sep 2014 @ 5:57pm

Legal Misdirection
"See something, say something"

Otherwise known throughout history as:

"Divide and Conquer"
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GEMont (profile), 15 Sep 2014 @ 3:09am

Re: 1930's Germany all over again
"Of course the government is doing these things to "keep us safe..."

Close, but no cookie.

Try this for size though:

Of course the government is doing these things to keep the members of the government and their friends and associates safe.... from us.

Now doesn't that explain their actions a whole lot better than what you said at the top.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Sep 2014 @ 5:38am

Re: What's next?
Maybe it will take a bit longer and at first they're only going to do cavity searches for when you seem to be walking funny.
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