Actress Seeking $1 Million From IMDb For Publishing Her Real Age Was Pulling In Less Than $2000 A Year
from the what's-my-age-again? dept
Junie Hoang -- the part-time actress who sued IMDb for revealing her true age -- continues to fight her long-running court battle in the midst of a lost war. Hoang didn't like the fact that IMDb posted her real age, claiming that exposing this fact limited her future acting options. (A look at her past acting credits would seem to indicate this ship sailed long ago, back when she was still an ageless beauty. If anything, it shows her career has been remarkably consistent in terms of number of roles, both pre-exposure and post.)The war is already lost. Junie Hoang tried to sue anonymously, in the hope of protecting her future from the menace of her actual birthdate, but was shot down by the presiding judge. Now, the facts are completely public, and all Hoang has left to fight for is damages she feels she's owed for IMDb's scuttling of her blossoming career. She puts this number at $1 million. But as Venkat Balasubramani notes in his coverage of the oral arguments, Hoang seems to be greatly overestimating her losses.
Harry Schneider, IMDb’s lawyer, walked Hoang through her tax returns. Without coming out and saying it, he highlighted that Hoang didn’t make very much money from acting, and that she deducted a fair amount of expenses for the amount of money she made. For example, her acting income in 2010 was between $1000 and $2000, but she deducted amounts for hair and makeup ($987), shoes ($318.86) and miscellaneous expenses ($523). The implication was that Hoang's acting was more of a hobby and less of a serious occupation.Even granting Hoang the greater of the two figures ($2000) means the actress felt she had about 500 years of acting ahead of her, if only IMDb hadn't sabotaged her bright and extremely long future.
Then there's the apparent fact that Junie Hoang wanted the benefits of an IMDb pro account, but without having to follow the terms of use.
The most grueling part of the cross examination came when Schneider walked Hoang through the IMDb user agreement and its provisions where users promise to submit accurate information.Here's the thing: the Internet is terrible at keeping secrets. If you want the widespread exposure that a dominant Hollywood-oriented website provides, you have to accept the fact that attempting to disguise your real age is never going to work. Hoang's argument centers on some shady investigative work done by IMDb customer service -- possibly involving the use of a background check service to gather more info on Hoang based on what IMDb knew and the actress' submitted credit card number.
The attorney pointed Hoang's attention to various ways she had made some artifice -- submitting an incorrect birthdate initially (she entered in text indicating that she had a supporting birth certificate), entering information through accounts other than her own (despite prohibitions in the user agreement against sharing passwords and accounts), attempting to convince IMDb's customer service that someone else submitted the original date of birth information, and finally, sending over a fake passport image and a fake ID.
In the end, Hoang threw up her arms and admitted she did indeed submit inaccurate information, particularly when she was trying to get the birthdate deleted because she was at wit's end.
As for the claims of lost future earnings, even Hoang's own witness -- her agent, Joe Kolkowitz -- was unable to provide verification that Hoang's earning power had decreased after IMDb's publication of her real age.
Kolkowitz testified that a variety of factors influence decisions on whether to hire an actor. Talent is a big part of the decision, he said. He also admitted that he only learned about Hoang’s date of birth through this lawsuit (and not through IMDb) and he was unable to definitively state that the disclosure of her age resulted in a reduced number of acting jobs. Finally, Kolkowitz also admitted that he couldn't say for certain that she had received fewer auditions, and added that he had “no knowledge regarding monetary loss from loss of roles.”As Balasubramani sums up the day's activities, based on the arguments heard today, Hoang comes across less as a victim of unwanted disclosure than simply a "disgruntled customer" -- albeit one willing to pursue this Quixotic legal battle until all options have been expended.
While there does appear to be a hint of ageism in Hollywood, it's pretty tough to pin down how much each passing birthday costs an actress. And that seemingly apparent desire for young women only is far from a foregone conclusion. Even if IMDb's publication of Hoang's true age did cost her some future roles, it would appear from her resume and yearly earnings that it didn't cost her much -- at least nowhere near the $1 million she continues to seek.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: actress, damages, imdb, junie hoang, real age
Companies: amazon, imdb
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Ezal: [i]Aw, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. God. Oh, I'm hurt. Oh, my neck, my back, my neck and my back. Oh, I want $150,000, but we can settle out of court right now for twenty bucks.[/i]
-Quote from [i]IMDB.com[/i]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
violating a user agreement
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Did she expect people to believe she was tapdancing out of the womb and onto a movie set?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Holy FSM. 1992 was 23 years ago?
I need a drink.
And possibly a nap.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
;-P
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Quite a Longshot
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Quite a Longshot
why haven't felony charges of document tampering been drawn up against her? anyone else that attempted such a thing and it was mentioned in court proceedings would probably be met by federal marshals in the hallway.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Do you think it's a coincidence that she recently announced she would be quitting acting and concentrating on directing. Plus the fact she's described that she has further surgery to go through, IYKWIM.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
One of my personal favorite not-a-big-star actresses is Kim Dickens, who's 49 or 50 now, and has worked steadily for the last decade. She might not have had anything quite as good as her role in "Deadwood" (as Joanie Stubbs) when she was younger, but between new performances and residuals, I suspect she's making an OK living at acting.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
--
And that is the death of her damages claim right there
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
$33.82 sounds like reasonable pay, but that's the hourly rate. Almost no actors work full time, and almost all actors will take unpaid roles in order to increase their overall exposure. If we assume that Hoang is in the bottom 10% at $8/hr, it's not too hard to see how she might only bring in a couple grand per year.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
What year?
Doesn't matter. The only year anyone will remember about Junie Hoang now is the year she was born - 1971. Oh, that, and that you'd be crazy to hire the litigious bint.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Stupid people using stupid made up laws
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
It wouldn't be unreasonable for them to do this, but it's also not unreasonable for them to publish ages, even without permission.
A person's age is a public record, because their birth certificate is a public record, right?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
This is a nut of the issue. Nobody's birth date is a secret, no matter how much some people wish it were.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Date of birth is a verifiable fact. Any number of people (parents but also others) may actually know her DOB. So if they (say her mother or a family friend) put her DOB on a website and IMDB picked it up there, or a relative posted it, you suggest she sues her mother, relative or friend?
Dates of birth, marriage, death are facts available to the public and to data brokers (ie it's for sale). I might like to keep my age a secret but I know I can't.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
That's it...
Damn, I feel so much better now.
Spry...almost.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
CFAA?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
See Meg Ryan, Nicole Kidman...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Google Search
Then, and only then, covers of B-movies she's been in.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I tried an internet dating site and I realized when I met this one woman that the photos she sent me had to have been at least 10 years ago. Could she face CFAA charges now?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The true sadness in all of this is because she is to damn old now, her role as "Ghetto Girl Three" will not turn into a lucrative stand alone movie series.
DAMN YOU IMDB!
*resumes laughing his ass off*
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Agism
However, just because you work in an industry that has an agism problem doesn't mean that anyone else has to restrict what they say because of that. Is it terrible that my own age limits my opportunities in the field? Yes. Would it be OK for me try to sue anyone for correctly reporting my age? Absolutely not.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
...
If the actress' date of birth was inaccurate, must be corrected. If there's no birthdate, leave it alone.
I don't get this Hoang woman, anyways.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
More Misinformation
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: More Misinformation
You say no $1m payday as though she was just suing to get her subscription fee back. She is suing for $1m and you are for some reason equating the frivolousness of the lawsuit with it being for some noble cause.
If there is age discrimination in Hollywood then why is she suing IMDb for publishing information they have every right to release? Surely she should be suing the companies with discriminatory auditioning practices.
As for her agent having no reason to look at her IMDb profile - that's total hogwash. If prospective employers will be looking at it then it's the agent's job to look at the profile and ensure it portrays their client well whilst still being accurate.
It's pretty clear here that this is not some grand statement about age discrimination and is really just an absurd money grab.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Monochromespaghetti
Per ADEA, it's ILLEGAL for a prospective employer to ask your age, but IMDB posts it so employers can, and do, discriminate. Does IMDB have a "right" to do an end-run around employment law and facilitate Age Discrimination? What does an actor's age have to do with their credits, experience, or acting ability? Nothing. In a town obsessed with youth, birthdates can only harm them.
Homeownership is public information. Do I have the "right" to research and publish the home addresses of criminal prosecutors, and when they are murdered by the relatives of criminals they convict, hide behind the First Amendment? Clearly you haven't thought about the implications of corporations publishing private citizens' information, for profit, when it can harm them. Not all speech is "free." And -- Hoang's birthdate was NOT public, anywhere, before IMDB made it so.
IMDB invaded Hoang's contractually private credit card information to get her real name, then hired Private Eye.com to illegally hack her birthdate from another source, in violation of their own user agreement. If this is their "right," every web vendor can chuck the privacy clause, then misuse and publish your private data. No one, IMDB included, has the right to use data you give them under the proviso of privacy, or to illegally obtain other personal information and publish it. Period.
This is a landmark lawsuit, about internet privacy and Ageism, from which everyone who engages the services of online vendors or is subjected to Ageism stands to benefit. If you knew the facts of the case, you'd know Hoang went to trial though she would be unable to recoup even a fraction of her legal fees. But hacks like you keep trying to say this is "about the money," ignoring the facts which loudly speak otherwise, and that all of Hollywood is behind her.
IMDB published her birthdate 8 years ago, when she looked like she was in her early to mid-20s, a prime age for ingenues. She didn't need to prove her income went DOWN; it never went UP because she was suddenly seen as "too old" for the roles she was suited for. But you would know this if you had heard her lawyer make this case at the Oral Arguments, which are still up on the 9th Circuit's YouTube channel.
You are either completely uninformed of the facts of the lawsuit but want to snark anyway, or a shill for IMDB. Or, possibly, the writer of this article trying to defend a mean-spirited, badly-written, dishonest hack job.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
beauty
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Kerela Online
[ link to this | view in chronology ]