Canadian Town Bans Spitting, Swearing And Gathering In Groups Of Three Or More

from the law-enforcement-brain-trust-baffled-by-backlash dept

Thu, Mar 12th 2015 10:36am — Tim Cushing

Taber, a town of 8,100 in Alberta, Canada, must be in the midst of the nation's smallest and least impressive crimewave. How else would you explain the town's new "Community Standards Bylaw," which imposes the following on its residents?

With a sweeping new bylaw, the southern Alberta town of Taber has outlawed swearing in public, instituted a nightly curfew on kids and teenagers, and granted local law enforcement the power to break up any assemblies of three or more people.

It's petty enough in the summary, but it gets even worse in the fine print.

Here's the "swearing" part of the bylaw:

No person shall yell, scream, or swear in any Public Place.

Which won't hold up to Canada's free speech laws, even with the plentiful exceptions the government can enact at any time. And it will apparently be up to patrolling officers to decide when a raised voice constitutes a "yell," and always with one ear cocked towards any errant public swearing occuring at lower volumes.

Then there's this part of the bylaw, which makes possibly disturbing others a crime.

No persons shall, during any period of the day allow, suffer or permit any electronic equipment, musical instruments, vehicles or any other devices to be sounded or used in any area of the Town of Taber, that may, or is likely, to disturb others.

There's also a clause apparently inserted by Taber's Behavior Nazis solely to anger the world's Grammar Nazis.

And bad cops will have all sorts of fun with this one:

No person shall be a member of the assembly of three or more persons in any Public Place where a Peace Officer has reasonable grounds to believe the assembly will disturb the peace of the neighborhood, and any such person shall disperse as requested by a Peace Officer.

"Reasonable grounds." As is common to the rest of the bylaw, criminal intent is scuttled in preference of "whatever the Peace Officer believes."

So, what has prompted this move towards a more controlled populace? The answer appears to be that it's just something the town's law enforcement wanted.

[Police Commission Chairman Ken] Holst said the goal of the bylaw was “to give another layer of tools to our police service.”

He said it came largely in response to concerns raised by citizens in a survey commissioned by the Taber Police Service.

“Graffiti was the main concern and the second concern was large gatherings of youth and other people on town property, sometimes causing issues,” he said.

While some of those issues could be addressed through existing provincial and federal laws, Holst said Taber wanted to empower its law enforcement when an offence is “imminent to occur,” which he described as “preventative policing.”

Ah, the old "thoughtcrime," as practiced by loitering youths. Holst didn't want this community of 8,100 to suffer the existential threat posed by aimless teens, so he and his law enforcement buddies helped write the bylaw.

Holst said the bylaw was drafted by town staff and the Taber Police Service and was reviewed by the police commission before being sent on to town council, where it was approved by a 6-1 vote.

And, since it was written by law enforcement, there was apparently no need to ensure the bylaw didn't violate anyone's rights or would even hold up in court. Because who knows the law better than law enforcement officers? No one, that's who. Just ask any cop.

Holst said no lawyers were involved in the police commission’s review and they didn’t discuss whether aspects of the bylaw would violate the Charter of Rights and Freedoms…

“Exactly how that sits with the Charter, to be 100 per cent honest with you, that discussion did not come up with the commission,” Holst said.

Because screw the public.

Save that 100%, Holst. You're going to need it. Here's an actual legal expert with 45 years experience, and he's of the opinion there's a 100% chance it's in violation.

“It clearly, clearly infringes the Charter,” [Michael] Dietrich said.

And now that the ridiculous bylaw has drawn mockery from around the internet, Holst and other city representatives are shocked and saddened by all the criticism.

“It hurts my heart,” Ken Holst said Tuesday. “I’m hurt today to read some of the extreme comments that have circulated on social media...”

“We really feel this is the best for Taber and makes it a better place, as opposed to ‘the worst place on Earth,’ as the way some people are portraying this,” he said.

Holst further defended his stupid bylaw by pointing to other similarly stupid Canadian towns that have enacted similarly stupid bylaws. Presumably, this belated justification will also not be run by any legal experts -- armchair or actual -- who may point out that two wrongs still don't equal a right, no matter what some informal, police-guided survey might "indicate."

258198336 Community Standards Bylaw 4 2015 201503051248422621 (PDF)258198336 Community Standards Bylaw 4 2015 201503051248422621 (Text)

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Filed Under: alberta, association, canada, free speech, swearing, taber, yelling

78 Comments

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TheResidentSkeptic (profile), 12 Mar 2015 @ 8:12am

One good thing will come out of this
..it gets rid of all those pesky beer-drinking, cigar smoking, "fore" yelling four-somes playing golf..

oh wait... *I* do that..
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RadioactiveSmurf (profile), 12 Mar 2015 @ 8:58am

It sounds like the police force wants to create Peaksville, Ohio where they get to be the monster who controls everything that the people do. Careful not to step out of line...or else! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_a_Good_Life_(The_Twilight_Zone)
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 10:42am

The thought.......kicking a hornet's nest......comes to mind
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sorrykb (profile), 12 Mar 2015 @ 10:47am

[Police Commission Chairman Ken] Holst said the goal of the bylaw was “to give another layer of tools to our police service.”

It sounds like the Taber Police Service has quite enough tools already.

(Wait, does that count as swearing?)
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 10:49am

It's for the greater good...
THE GREATER GOOD
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 10:58am

No assemblies of more then 3 people?

Seems they've taken a leaf out of Dolores Umbridge's book, that was one of the decrees she passed to go after Harry Potter.
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Baron von Robber, 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:13am

No person shall yell, scream, or swear in any Public Place.

/Said in a toned down voice

"Hey lady, look out for that.."
/Bus runs over lady.
"...nevermind."
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DannyB (profile), 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:14am

Re: It's for the greater good...
I didn't yell to warn people about the fire that engulfed them because yelling was banned by local law.

But hey, it is for the greater good. I didn't disturb anyone.

But those people in the fire sure did.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:14am

How I read it
“to give another layer of tools to our police service.”

At first glance I totally read it as ...
“to give another layer of tools to our police state.”
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:17am

Makes sense... I mean hell, who has more than one friend they ever go out in public with? Especially at a time! Why, I saw a group of 3 teenagers the other day! Probably off to do arson or jaywalking or some other morally reprehensible bit of social unrest.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:18am

No assemblies of more then 3 people

Well that puts church meeting and the like out of bounds.

More seriously what about 4 or more adult siblings going out for a meal?
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streetlight (profile), 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:21am

Sounds like the police could shut down everything
Everything might include church services in which more than three people attended, a company picnic, a backyard barbeque of mom, dad and their two children, a retail establishment with three or more customers including a cafe, restaurant or bar, a classical music concert in the park with fireworks on Canada Day. Why would anyone want to live in such a place?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:21am

It seems that these days around here the vast majority of yelling and swearing is perpetrated by police, who would presumably be exempted from any "No person shall ... " rules.

Though I've got to wonder, are Canadian (and British) police anywhere near as foul-mouthed as their American counterparts?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:28am

Re: Re: It's for the greater good...
Just need to find a way to posthumously fine those assholes that were screaming disturbing and causing community damage while they burned to death.

Some people just will not be quite!
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Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:28am

Re:
Hey,I think you are on to something there. If police are not persons, then what are they?

Que descriptions here, but please refrain from groups more than two, or YELLING, as you may offend some undefined sensibilities.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:33am

Guess blowing your car's horn to warn someone is out of the question now, eh?

And what about the poor buskers? Whatever did they do to deserve this?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:33am

I for one welcome the quiet. Now get off my lawn you hippies.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:40am

Why are the police writing the laws they enforce? Isn't there a little conflict of interest there?
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awesome.ninja, 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:42am

wait what?, then my family (of 4) will be outlaws? :=)
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nbcart (profile), 12 Mar 2015 @ 11:50am

Headline: Taber police raid church

"Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:03pm

Re:
Since council consists of 7 people (according to the voting tally), does that mean that council can never assemble again?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:08pm

This is the perfect answer for the politically correct. This way they won't be offended when someone says they're feeling fat.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:09pm

two wrongs still don't equal a right
> wo wrongs still don't equal a right
In a typical street layout, 3 left turns equal a right... so do we just need 3 wrongs?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:09pm

Re:
They used an offensive term like fat or gay or white.
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ECA (profile), 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:13pm

How many idiots, to screw in a light bulb?
Quote:
"No person shall be a member of the assembly of three or more persons in any Public Place where a Peace Officer has reasonable grounds to believe the assembly will disturb the peace of the neighborhood,"

So this has nothing to do with Public annoyance? its IF' the police THINK its a disturbance..
So, as a public Citizen, I cant DECLARE the counsel an assembly WILL disturb the populace??
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Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:31pm

Re: Re:
That will depend upon whether the police think what the council is doing is reasonable or not.
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gorehound (profile), 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:34pm

No person shall yell, scream, or swear in any Public Place.

FUCK FUCK FUCK FAP FAP FUCK FUCK FUCK FAP FAP
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:40pm

That would not be good for short tempered people like me. When things go awry, I do tend to cuss like a sailor.
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Harold, 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:45pm

My traffic accident
So I am driving thru this town with my buddies in the back, have a traffic accident with the cop (who ran into me when he ran a red light, without his red light and siren running).

Now because of the accident my horn is blowing loudly, and if I get out yell a profanity at the cop (because of the horn of course), and my friends get out and yell at the cop, we all get fined and maybe jailed because the cop screwed up!

Sounds like Canada!
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:50pm

Re: Re:
Technically, the police have the right to disperse a gathering of 3 or more people, they don't have the REQUIREMENT to. Its an exploitable catch-all they can apply to nearly any situation.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:52pm

Re: Re: It's for the greater good...
FYI that was a reference to Hot Fuzz, which features a town somewhat like this.
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Roger Strong (profile), 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:52pm

Re: One good thing will come out of this
Actually, something wonderful has already come out of the town's 'Footloose' ban:

That's why the citizens group Save Us Bacon is arguing that Taber needs a hero. And that hero, they say, is Kevin Bacon.

The group's goal is to raise enough money to pay Bacon to fly to Taber to host a "raucous dance party/protest against an embarrassing, archaic, vaguely worded law passed by an out of touch town-council — held of course, just outside of Taber. Help us bring a big city kid to a small town who knows he has to win."
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 12:53pm

Re: My traffic accident
At least it didn't happen in the US. You'd get the death penalty.
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Stan (profile), 12 Mar 2015 @ 1:05pm

laws in Canada?
Do laws in Canada have a provision for performing a "citizen's arrest"?

If so, does that mean I cam arrest a Taber police officer if I hear him swearing?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 1:12pm

Well
If they add "scratching inappropriate places" to the list, then the Canadians will finally have a reason to get rid of the Blue Jays.

I'll get my coat.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 1:14pm

So, what was the reason for this? A small noname town wouldnt do this just to be famous.
Maybe the town council is a crazy sect like in that british movie
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 1:18pm

Re:
No person shall yell, scream, or swear in any Public Place.

FUCK FUCK FUCK FAP FAP FUCK FUCK FUCK FAP FAP

Good point. The internet is a "public place". Stop using "all caps" there, friend, or I'll have to report you.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 1:56pm

And they didn't think of...
whenever the council of turdbags assemble to vote on something the police doesn't like, there will suddenly be a illegal assembly taking place since it will all be up to the "peace officer".
Everything, even the wording, reminds me of the show called Farscape and their peace keepers who are a bunch of nazi wannabe aholes.
YES I said aholes... what are you gonna do? arrest me? Hey what are you doing in my house? Get that nightstick out of my face...
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 1:59pm

No, you cant fucking try to STEALTHILLY "illegalize" protests
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gant, 12 Mar 2015 @ 2:14pm

*Not* involving lawyers in drafting laws is not that stupid as you may think. It's rather efficient, I guess:

1. no complicated drafting process. Just get it done quickly.
2. put the law into effect.
3. people have to abide the law.

Alternative: do not abide and fight the law. Make sure that you can afford the legal battle and the risk involved.
Until someone finally goes this road, the law has done what it's creators wanted.

More over, since no one gets punished for making bad laws, it doesn't stop them from doing it over and over again. I suppose they assess and estimate the time period their bad law presumably will remain in effect right from the start. If it remains unchallenged any time longer, it's a bonus 'win'.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 2:25pm

Re: Re: Re: It's for the greater good...
If more than three people gather together, and talk loudly, "we will be up to our balls in jugglers!"
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WDS (profile), 12 Mar 2015 @ 2:26pm

Re: Sounds like the police could shut down everything
the bar-b-q can happen in the backyard, it just can't happen at the local park picnic shelter.
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Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 2:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's for the greater good...
Could a group of five mimes, mime 'police brutality' loudly enough to fail the noise test, or would it just be arrested for being a group larger than three?
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 2:53pm

Re: Re: One good thing will come out of this
Bacon celebrates getting the law overturned.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kNX09-De8M&t=16s)
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Anon, 12 Mar 2015 @ 2:56pm

Large Gathering
I'm reminded of large gatherings that most of us attended that were quite loud and could have easily disturbed certain individuals. I believe it was called Recess, and it has now been outlawed...
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 2:59pm

Re: Well
"If they add "scratching inappropriate places" to the list, then the Canadians will finally have a reason to get rid of the Blue Jays."

It's been illegal in professional baseball for pitchers to scratch their balls (or wax, tar, grease, or spit on them) since 1920 -- long before the Blue Jays were born -- even though the tradition lingered on for many decades post-ban.
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bob, 12 Mar 2015 @ 3:10pm

Re: This is the purpose of separation of powers.
Because the city council members are too lazy to do their job and make sure the laws they pass are legitimate. But as the article said they thought it would be better for the community if they did pass this bylaw. Hence the members of the community should either vote out the council members if they don't like how things are run.

I doesn't matter who originally wrote the law but you should be more skeptical if the person writing the law is directly involved with the enforcing of it or is on the receiving end of it.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 3:10pm

Re:
And when your family goes out with the in-laws, the Burgers, will you be an in & outlaw burger?
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Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 3:40pm

Last Call
OK, now the police don't even need to set up sobriety checkpoints. Just wait outside all the bars until last call, and stream all directly into the paddy-wagon.
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AC, 12 Mar 2015 @ 3:42pm

Sounds like they have plans for Canada
One must presume, with these sorts of laws, that a majority of politicians in Alberta are both big fans of 50 Shades of Gray, and rather badly want to join the European Union.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 4:08pm

Congratulations kids
You now no longer have to go to school since that is a gathering of more than three people to a public place. Be sure to thank your law makers in the future! Provided you're literate of course.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 4:28pm

Re: laws in Canada?
Yes, they do. No, you can't.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 4:34pm

Taber is a biggish town on the prairie that you have to slow down for 2 or 3 minutes to get through with nothing in it. Great sweet corn in the fall though - get you some of that. The cops are probably having probably having problems with bored teenagers, and the same 4 bored teenagers at that, looking for something anything to break up the monotony every night. Having lived in towns like Taber growing up, I was one of those 4.

That said, this is BS move by the city council.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 6:04pm

Re: How many idiots, to screw in a light bulb?
It sounds like there is a group or several groups of 3 or more individuals who the police would like to harass but cannot as the current laws didn't allow it. So now the law has been changed so the harassment can proceed.

Taber, If we don't like you and your not breaking the law, we'll change the law.
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Dave, 12 Mar 2015 @ 7:22pm

Re: small towns everywhere
there's always a problem with underage drinking and kids loitering about. there's NOTHING else to do here....even for adults. except we can legally congregate at the bar
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Mar 2015 @ 7:42pm

Cut them some slack
"large gatherings of youth and other people on town property, sometimes causing issues"

Look, they're causing issues, which can be really really dangerous. Or am I thinking of crocodiles?
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George, 12 Mar 2015 @ 8:21pm

1984 - George Orwell
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streetlight (profile), 12 Mar 2015 @ 9:36pm

Re: Re: Sounds like the police could shut down everything
There may be some ambiguity about whether your back yard is a Public Place. Item 18 states that noise that may come from a private place is subject to this bylaw. Furthermore, the bylaw discusses application to private places that the public normally has access to. I think this probably applies retail establishments like restaurants or bars but might include the backyard of a house if the owner allows folks to pass through to get to some site back of the house like a park or hiking trail.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Mar 2015 @ 12:09am

Re: It's for the greater good...
get a chainsaw, wait next to a tree the mayer will pass by, whisper "timber" to warn him he's about to get crushed :D
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Mar 2015 @ 1:27am

Your "Civil Servants" telling YOU - what you can and cannot do?
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David, 13 Mar 2015 @ 3:45am

And just like that
Automobiles banned at night.

No persons shall, during any period of the day allow, suffer or permit any electronic equipment, musical instruments, vehicles or any other devices to be sounded or used in any area of the Town of Taber, that may, or is likely, to disturb others.

I can testify that I sleep much better now that I am living in a solitary house away from travelled roads than when I lived in a city.

So any vehicle sounding at night is provably disturbing my sleep. If I ever move to Taber, I can demand that nobody drives a car in town at night. Or during my nap.

That's impressive. To say the least.
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Padpaw (profile), 13 Mar 2015 @ 5:01am

could not a citizen use this law to force a citizens arrest on any gathering of 3 police or more that are surely up to no good
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I'm_Having_None_Of_It, 13 Mar 2015 @ 6:44am

I'm worried about the prospect of their Boy Scouts being arrested for Loitering Within Tent.
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I'm_Having_None_Of_It, 13 Mar 2015 @ 6:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's for the greater good...
And living statues painted silver...
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barrabuss (profile), 13 Mar 2015 @ 7:35am

WELCOME TO THE RESERVATION

These are similar to the laws put in place on Native American Reservations/prisons, along with being illegal to speak in there own American languages.
It was good for them, now its good for you too..
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Mar 2015 @ 7:46am

Re:
i guess that funerals, weddings and the like are also banned.
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sorrykb (profile), 13 Mar 2015 @ 9:30am

Re: And just like that
Cell phones would be out too. They definitely may disturb others.

Possibly alarm clocks as well (or their more modern variations).

And of course sirens of all kind.
...

"Welcome to Taber, the Quietest Town on Earth"
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Wee Willie, 13 Mar 2015 @ 10:04am

Re: Last Call
In San Francisco, CA a few years ago, a few cops were going into bars and arresting people for being under the influence while seated on barstools nursing their beers. Eventually more senior (and intelligent) heads downtown put a stop to this after complaints from bar owners/taxpayers.
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AnonyBabs, 13 Mar 2015 @ 12:03pm

Re: How I read it
I read it as "to give our police something to do."
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Tim Fry, 13 Mar 2015 @ 7:46pm

"Wherever two of you are gathered in my name, I will also be there."

"Hey, you in the dress with the holes in the hands! Lemme see some ID..."
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Likey, 13 Mar 2015 @ 8:34pm

It's not a big deal people...
Once they lock up 3 people in their one room jail-house, they can't arrest anymore without breaking their own law.
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Anon, 13 Mar 2015 @ 8:40pm

Not a place for me
I couldn't live in a place with such morons at the wheel.

Although, the whole thing sounds like a great plot for an educational family movie.

Hey, whatever happened to those types of movies anyway? You know, the ones with a "moral of the story."
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imknotyou, 14 Mar 2015 @ 6:03am

law
NO TYPING IN CAPS ALLOWED!
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David, 14 Mar 2015 @ 7:36am

Re: Sounds like the police could shut down everything
Everything might include church services in which more than three people attended

Happens probably rarely enough not to warrant police attention.
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Reality bites, 14 Mar 2015 @ 10:06am

More evil is committed by the "We Meant Well" crowd than any other group.
The 6 thugs that voted for it should be run out of town on a rail. I'm sure tarring and feathering would have a special bylaw prohibiting it.

More crime is committed by those in authority than by those under it.
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Dan G Difino, 14 Mar 2015 @ 12:10pm

Update Us, Eh?
It will be funny to see the Chief of Police of Taber, Alb be the first one arrested for the non free speech! But, all in all, its good to see the people of Taber getting all the bang for their tax canadian bucks out of this bunch down at city hall! Sounds like they've got it pretty well covered. They'll be arresting the cheerleader squad. Lets see.. the football, baseball team and hockey teams lining up for hotdogs and icecream cones. Who else? There goes the neighborhood.
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Dan G Difino, 14 Mar 2015 @ 12:28pm

Re: And just like that
I could use that vehicle law on my street where they won't fill the potholes and my windows are so thin, they are probably illegal too! And did I mention the trains at all hours of the night? Two Longs, One Short, One Long.. All damn night.. QUIET!! There should be a law.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Mar 2015 @ 7:04am

Equilibrium was a good movie, but it looks horrible when taken into practice in the real world.
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