FBI Uncovers Another Of Its Own Plots, Senator Feinstein Responds By Saying We Should Censor The Internet
from the say-what-now? dept
As you may have heard, yesterday the FBI "uncovered" yet another of its own terrorist plots, the latest in a very long line of "terrorist plots" the FBI has "uncovered" -- in which the details always show that it was an undercover FBI "informant" (often doing this to get off leniently for some other issue), who more or less goads hapless, naive people, into a "plot" that had no real chance of ever happening. This appears to be the same sort of thing.Still, politicians never leave an opportunity like this unexploited, and so in jumps Senator Dianne Feinstein, arguing that the only proper way to deal with this is to, of course... censor the internet:
I am particularly struck that the alleged bombers made use of online bombmaking guides like the Anarchist Cookbook and Inspire Magazine. These documents are not, in my view, protected by the First Amendment and should be removed from the Internet.For what it's worth, Dianne Feinstein's "view" is wrong. The Anarchist Cookbook is very much protected by the First Amendment. While the book is banned in other countries, who don't have the equivalent of the First Amendment, it's perfectly legal in the US. The FBI/DOJ has extensively investigated the Anarchist's Cookbook in particular over the years, and as far back as 1997 directly told Senator Feinstein that she could not ban it. This is from the DOJ back in 1997:
Senator Feinstein introduced legislation during the last Congress in an attempt to fill this gap. The Department of Justice agrees that it would be appropriate and beneficial to adopt further legislation to address this problem directly, if that can be accomplished in a manner that does not impermissibly restrict the wholly legitimate publication and teaching of such information, or otherwise violate the First Amendment.And yet, Feinstein's first response to the FBI uncovering yet another of its own plots is to go back to trying to censoring the internet in direct violation of the First Amendment? Yikes.
The First Amendment would impose substantial constraints on any attempt to proscribe indiscriminately the dissemination of bombmaking information. The government generally may not, except in rare circumstances, punish persons either for advocating lawless action or for disseminating truthful information -- including information that would be dangerous if used -- that such persons have obtained lawfully.
Oh, and even worse... in keeping with the fact that this plot was actually created by the FBI itself, guess where the two "terrorist wannabes" got the Anarchist Cookbook? From the undercover FBI agent! From the criminal complaint itself [pdf]:
On or about Novermber 2, 2014, the UC [Undercover Officer] met with VELNTZAS and SIDDIQUI. When VELENTZAS was reading a book called "Chemistry: The Central Science," the UC asked how this book was going to benefit them. VELENTZAS stated that they could practice at her house, but could not leave any residue. The UC stated that practicing at the house was not a good idea because the people living in the apartment below VELENTZAS might hear loud noises, referring to noises from explosions. VELENTZAS said she could always tell her neighbors that she dropped some bookshelves. The UC and VELENTZAS then discussed the fact that the UC had downloaded The Anarchist Cookbook. VELENTZAS suggested the UC print out the parts of the book that they would need. During the conversation, the UC stated, "We read chemistry books with breakfast. Like, who does that?" VELENTZAS responded, "People who want to make history."The complaint also lists many other books and magazines and web pages that the various people read throughout, and later has one of the wannabe terrorists thanking the undercover agent for introducing The Anarchist's Cookbook to her.
As for the other document that Feinstein wants to censor, Inspire is Al Qaeda's magazine. And, again, reading through the complaint you see that it was actually the undercover agent who brought the magazine. The wannabe terrorist did ask the undercover agent to get it, and eventually it was the undercover agent who actually got it. Velentzas keeps asking the undercover agent to find a copy of Inspire, over and over again in the complaint until eventually the agent complies:
On or about December 24, 2014, the UC visited VELENTZAS and brought the Spring 2014 issue of Inspire magazine, as previously requested by VELENTZAS.In other words, in neither case did the would be terrorists get the "bad" material from the internet. In both cases it came from the undercover FBI agent.
Meanwhile, it seems like the only real result of this ridiculous statement will be for Feinstein to drive ever more awareness to the old Anarchist's Cookbook, so yet another generation of teenagers can discover it and think they've found something totally cool online.
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Filed Under: anarchist's cookbook, censorship, dianne feinstein, doj, fbi, first amendment, free speech, own plot, terrorism
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I wouldn't rely on the Anarchist's Cookbook's recipes.
The fact that it still suggests you can get high on bananadine should be a clue as to its validity.
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Re: I wouldn't rely on the Anarchist's Cookbook's recipes.
Although that cough syrup thing did...
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Re: Re: I wouldn't rely on the Anarchist's Cookbook's recipes.
(another one to skip: supposedly you can get high off smoking the *spice* variety of mace. based on my personal experience, that's a lie.)
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Re: I wouldn't rely on the Anarchist's Cookbook's recipes.
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Another make work project
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Re: Another make work project
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Re: Re: Re: Another make work project
Cases in point that I've been through personally:
1) LPC's (my current talk therapist is one) cannot be Medicare providers,but MSW's can be. The educational requirements for both degrees are similar enough that I have no idea why.
2) Because the compensation for Medicare patients is not great and the paperwork's a pain, a LOT of psychiatrists/neurologists/etc. won't accept Medicare, and that frequently leaves patients having to make multiple calls to find one who will if their prior provider quits taking it/moves/retires. I got lucky with my current (two "state's best doctors" list certificates, deserves them) but he was a straight-up cold call and I'm already dreading his retirement.
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Anyone with a highschool level understanding of chemistry and electronics will have a good laugh reading through the Anarchist Cookbook.
* This is sarcasm - it is literally a tennis ball filled with strike-anywhere matcheads... yes, the book is that bad.
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Re: Re:
A long time ago, when the controversy about the book was still new, someone published an article detailing many of the things that were wrong in it.
The author of that article actually thought that the book was so bad, it might have been written by an "agent provocateur" so that potential bomb-makers would blow themselves up. (Obviously, the author was no stranger to conspiracy theories.)
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Cookbook
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It is beyond any doubt that it can help you cook up some dangerous things that could be used to harm other people. That process is most certainly dangerous to oneself. However, it actually taught me some interesting things about chemistry, what household cleaners to avoid mixing, and some survival skills that will be useful when zombies come knocking (do they knock?).
The book contains knowledge. It is a very slippery slope when you start locking up knowledge because of what people may do with it.
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From my extensive research on zombies and zombieism, I can state definitively that no, they do not knock.
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Re: Zombies
The bumping repeatedly into the door and scratching could be interpreted as a knocking sound?
This is absurd in every aspect. I had a copy back in the early 90s (thank you Newsgroups) and as many have stated it is at best a means to kill yourself.
Regardless, "removing" something from the internet is about as comical as one can get. America doesn't own the internet anyhow and as most likely the majority of the digital copies are on foreign servers & p2p... good luck with that!
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The problem is the FBI only seem to be able to find incompetent people who would never be able to do things on their own. Seriously, this person couldn't find a copy of a magazine in this day and age? A magazine I'm sure the writers want spread around as much as possible.
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Oh, and an investigation is not really a sting, is it? where the latter is a much more comfortable and controllable situation for those involved.. i.e. a setup, thus making your seemingly fear based comment somewhat irrelevant and fuddy in my eyes.
*I* would rather see the feds slip anonymous tips to these "vulnerable" folks tipping them off to the fact that they're being "watched" thereby helping to filter the fuckers from the idiots - but I like daydreaming too. I always think we're too hell-bent on catching a perp than protecting people, potential perp or not, fabricated or not, but I'm aware the entire structure is formed around "the crime" so it is what it is. Besides, a life free from risk sounds a lot like death so fuck any natsec that successfully drives a stake through the middle of why we have a nation in the first place.
And Feinstein..? just. wow. - time's well past up for that resident rep I'd have to say
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Although, they have perfected terrorizing citizens of the world. At this point, I doubt anybody with the most basic of comprehension skills actually believes the bullshit that US agencies are actually trying to stop terrorists, criminals, or "bad guys".
Besides, it's in their best interests to allow the bad guys to succeed so that they can turn around and claim more powers at the expense of liberties.
In the US your family is more likely to die at the hands of "Law Enforcement" than an ACTUAL terrorist plot.
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I gotta say I like the opium farmers in Afghans better, they're a lot more realistic about how to make money in that sort of terrain.
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Doesn't that kind of invalidate your point? They are very successful at catching plots that never would have had a chance at going anywhere, but completely failed to detect one that succeeded. If their operations were regularly catching actual terrorists who would actually be blowing stuff up even if the FBI were not involved, that would be great. But that isn't happening.
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What happened here was not so much an investigation as an instigation. Would the person they are charging have gone any further than talking terrorism if the FBI had not stepped in and created the plot?
Also, it is the nature of law enforcement that they investigate after the fact, unless you want though crime to be an offense.
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Re: Boston Brothers were being watched by 'govt' agents
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How could it be infringing to share a book he/the agency owns with would be dupes.
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Neither of those are necessary to commit copyright infringement. If he bought a copy and gave it someone, no problem. If the copyright holder allows anyone to download, copy, and distribute freely, no problem. If he downloaded a copy without authorization, that's infringement.
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What I want
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But if even if they don't ban it, I'm sure the FBI will still try to use it to set someone up, and it will go down just like this.
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Ban what from the internet?
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FBI remembers the Reichstag
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire
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Sitting atop your federal thrones from which you govern this:
Classified, Land of the Liars
Where only the truth seems to come under fire.
You're committing crimes in secrecy,
Then justify them by telling people:
"Because of National Security"
You're unnecessary Evil raping constitutionality.
Then sell the population your pre-approved realities.
All over the world remains the evidence of a Government
Hell-bent on controlling Everyone and Everything.
Protecting us from enemies that YOU created.
Using methods to ensure that list will grow to become endless.
Uncle Sam's future be damned!
Only money talks is the new Law of the Land.
Who's protecting us from you?
Wasn't that supposed to be you?
Tell us, what had you expected us to do when finally we knew?
Be proud of you?!
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Re: Censorship
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Further governments define as terrorists anybody who wants to change the political system, or actions carried out or proposed by the politicians. It leads to life imprisonment for opposing ACTA/SOPA etc.
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I'm totally in favor of gun rights, but we should confiscate and destroy all the handguns.
I'm against all abortion restrictions. But women should not be allowed to have abortions in the third trimester.
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And knives. Don't forget to ban "shanks".
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Especially the ones with solar shields. (will anybody get that?)
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not a shocker
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Re: not a shocker
One finds this statement in many locations these days, I'm not quite sure what to make if it. Is it a cry for help? Is it an indication of sociological instability? Most likely it is just hyperbole repeated so many times that it seems the thing to say.
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Censor my brain?
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Chemistry book
I guess all 100+ people in my class are "making history." Will Feinstein try to ban it, I wonder?
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Sometimes I wonder how those founding fathers would have reacted if they had discovered the British government doing this to British citizens.
Americans might as well have stayed British if their descendants are ignoring pretty much the same excesses that caused them to revolt and create a new country in the first place
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Maybe what Feinstein should consider banning is undercover FBI agents?
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what are the chances?
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Re: what are the chances?
I would think the younger brother would have brought that up in his trial if that were the case. He has nothing to lose.
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Re: Re: what are the chances?
Only if the judge allowed it. There have been many things that judges have prohibited from being disclosed in court.
In this case, even if that were the case there is a good chance that the FBI could get the judge to ban any mention of it on the grounds that it could "expose sensitive law enforcement techniques". That's the problem with a legal system that allows secrets: you never know how much of the truth comes out of it.
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Re: what are the chances?
Or the craft mercenaries all carrying backpacks similar to the ones claimed to be used in the bombing. The before and after photos are interesting. Before the mercs have the backpacks and afterwards they don't. Along with bomb sniffing dogs, police snipers on nearby roofs, and a controlled bomb set off at the local library by the police bomb squad.
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Re: Re: what are the chances?
Carlyle Group buys JFK Library a couple months later.
Nothing suspicious at all.
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Making booms is that protecting society its everyones freedom to live in peace.
Unless the Justice systems is unrepairable, cloaked excutive privledge and top secrecy available for abuseing citizens like NSA scandles and CIA scandles thats why anarchrists and others want that book and why NRA what their right to defend a corupt government. Frankly Id choose the peaceful route, but I AM tempted at times due to the slowness of justice in America, their have been millions who were murdered;Women, alterntive religious beleif systems other than christian, Native Americans, African Americans, and those Blanc who supported them.
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The most powerful are knowing self.
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In the meantime the Nth country experiment proved we can't contain secret knowledge.
Hence we created the nuclear proliferation policies that we have today (e.g. you own a nuke and your ambitions of expansionism cease.)
Also, as in the case of North Korea, we mock them when their first nuclear tests indicate a shoddy effort.
But they can't stop people from finding out how to make bombs or other weapons by trying to censor the internet, or even the libraries. If we want to develop the instruments of terror or sabotage or revolution, we will.
This is why our representatives need to really try to prevent or resolve legitimate grievances among the constituency. A grievance is the inextinguishable fuel that supplies every successful revolution and proof against counter-insurrection.
Kaboom.
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That was 18 years ago. I'm sure their attitude would be different today because: Terrorism!
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Dianne Feinstein...
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Surely the only sensible thing then is to classify the FBI as a terrorist organisation?
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Streisand again!
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much ado about nothing
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Why not ban all forms of religion while we are at it as I am certain we can link any terrorist group to some form of organized religion. or maybe you could think about how using stereotypes makes you look like a lesser person.
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Why not ban all forms of religion while we are at it as I am certain we can link any terrorist group to some form of organized religion. or maybe you could think about how using stereotypes makes you look like a lesser person.
You've got my vote. Religion has been responsible for more misery and death in the world than practically any other cause.
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You're in favor of laws that dictate what people are and are not allowed to believe?
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Yeah, that will help.
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Yeah, that will help.
Yeah, we can have big, public Quran book burning parties! That'll teach 'em!
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At the very least it would expose the hypocrisy of calling Islam the "religion of peace" in the face of world-wide riots by Muslims.
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You say don't want a revolution??
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Re: You say don't want a revolution??
Hopefully, we can be the lesson to future empires - that we chose to ignore from our predecessors.
In the South there's a tradition of partying on the beach in the face of an inescapable hurricane.. Might as well make however many years we have left one helluva hurricane party.
Was a good run, we had some great moments, just a shame we lacked the pebto bismol to rid ourselves of the explosive diarrhoea that exists in the USG.
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FBI and Feinsten work together to violate the Constitution
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Re: FBI and Feinsten work together to violate the Constitution
What with all the "constitution nuts" running around nowadays, we just need to get rid of it!
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Laws laws and more laws
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Dianne Feinstein
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I heard about it as a teenager. Learned lockpicking from it. Which helped... because I was the sort of person that ALWAYS lost my keys. Plus, it gave me some neat ideas for short stories! Reading about tone phone hacking and some of the more amazing-rediculous things gave me ideas for fiction. I also remember thinking 'Wow.. these explosives recipies look kinda... uhm... volatile. Like, lose your hand making it volatile. No thanks.'
.... I should get that thing again actually...
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Getting rid of US Terrorism is Easy!
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