FBI Uncovers Another Of Its Own Plots, Senator Feinstein Responds By Saying We Should Censor The Internet

from the say-what-now? dept

Fri, Apr 3rd 2015 4:04am — Mike Masnick

As you may have heard, yesterday the FBI "uncovered" yet another of its own terrorist plots, the latest in a very long line of "terrorist plots" the FBI has "uncovered" -- in which the details always show that it was an undercover FBI "informant" (often doing this to get off leniently for some other issue), who more or less goads hapless, naive people, into a "plot" that had no real chance of ever happening. This appears to be the same sort of thing.

Still, politicians never leave an opportunity like this unexploited, and so in jumps Senator Dianne Feinstein, arguing that the only proper way to deal with this is to, of course... censor the internet:

I am particularly struck that the alleged bombers made use of online bombmaking guides like the Anarchist Cookbook and Inspire Magazine. These documents are not, in my view, protected by the First Amendment and should be removed from the Internet.

For what it's worth, Dianne Feinstein's "view" is wrong. The Anarchist Cookbook is very much protected by the First Amendment. While the book is banned in other countries, who don't have the equivalent of the First Amendment, it's perfectly legal in the US. The FBI/DOJ has extensively investigated the Anarchist's Cookbook in particular over the years, and as far back as 1997 directly told Senator Feinstein that she could not ban it. This is from the DOJ back in 1997:

Senator Feinstein introduced legislation during the last Congress in an attempt to fill this gap. The Department of Justice agrees that it would be appropriate and beneficial to adopt further legislation to address this problem directly, if that can be accomplished in a manner that does not impermissibly restrict the wholly legitimate publication and teaching of such information, or otherwise violate the First Amendment.

The First Amendment would impose substantial constraints on any attempt to proscribe indiscriminately the dissemination of bombmaking information. The government generally may not, except in rare circumstances, punish persons either for advocating lawless action or for disseminating truthful information -- including information that would be dangerous if used -- that such persons have obtained lawfully.

And yet, Feinstein's first response to the FBI uncovering yet another of its own plots is to go back to trying to censoring the internet in direct violation of the First Amendment? Yikes.

Oh, and even worse... in keeping with the fact that this plot was actually created by the FBI itself, guess where the two "terrorist wannabes" got the Anarchist Cookbook? From the undercover FBI agent! From the criminal complaint itself [pdf]:

On or about Novermber 2, 2014, the UC [Undercover Officer] met with VELNTZAS and SIDDIQUI. When VELENTZAS was reading a book called "Chemistry: The Central Science," the UC asked how this book was going to benefit them. VELENTZAS stated that they could practice at her house, but could not leave any residue. The UC stated that practicing at the house was not a good idea because the people living in the apartment below VELENTZAS might hear loud noises, referring to noises from explosions. VELENTZAS said she could always tell her neighbors that she dropped some bookshelves. The UC and VELENTZAS then discussed the fact that the UC had downloaded The Anarchist Cookbook. VELENTZAS suggested the UC print out the parts of the book that they would need. During the conversation, the UC stated, "We read chemistry books with breakfast. Like, who does that?" VELENTZAS responded, "People who want to make history."

The complaint also lists many other books and magazines and web pages that the various people read throughout, and later has one of the wannabe terrorists thanking the undercover agent for introducing The Anarchist's Cookbook to her.

As for the other document that Feinstein wants to censor, Inspire is Al Qaeda's magazine. And, again, reading through the complaint you see that it was actually the undercover agent who brought the magazine. The wannabe terrorist did ask the undercover agent to get it, and eventually it was the undercover agent who actually got it. Velentzas keeps asking the undercover agent to find a copy of Inspire, over and over again in the complaint until eventually the agent complies:

On or about December 24, 2014, the UC visited VELENTZAS and brought the Spring 2014 issue of Inspire magazine, as previously requested by VELENTZAS.

In other words, in neither case did the would be terrorists get the "bad" material from the internet. In both cases it came from the undercover FBI agent.

Meanwhile, it seems like the only real result of this ridiculous statement will be for Feinstein to drive ever more awareness to the old Anarchist's Cookbook, so yet another generation of teenagers can discover it and think they've found something totally cool online.

Velentzas and Siddiqui Complaint (PDF)Velentzas and Siddiqui Complaint (Text)

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Filed Under: anarchist's cookbook, censorship, dianne feinstein, doj, fbi, first amendment, free speech, own plot, terrorism

100 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 4:16am

Back in the 90s it was rumored looking at it could get you listed. Now the FBI will just give it to anyone and let them play with it. Makes sense. It's perfectly legal reading material but if they want to follow it up with an illegal act it should be looked into.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 4:19am

Another make work project
Its so hard to find real terrorists and so much easier to dupe so idiots into being faux terrorists. Got to justify my salary somehow. Right? These girls couldn't blow their nose right without instructions. Terrorists my ass.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 4:21am

So many problems caused by putting appearance & "good" soundbites ahead of actual problem solving.
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avideogameplayer, 3 Apr 2015 @ 4:34am

The Anarchist Cookbook was proven not to be the most reliable source of info...
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 4:53am

Feinstein, like McCarthy and Palmer, will be a name history will not be kind to.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 5:14am

That is why I vote for Feinstein's opponent in every election, I don't care who it is. You could put the neighbors dog on the ballot, and I would vote for him for Feinstein.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 5:40am

Alot easier to catch fake terrorists and criminals than to actually try to catch real ones.
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gyffes, 3 Apr 2015 @ 5:47am

Cookbook
Man, we had an actual physical copy of it when I was a kid and blew up all sorts of things. He's now a LT in a fire dept (EMT division) and I'm just a general geek. Good thing there was no internets back then or who knows WHAT sorta trouble we'd've gotten into!
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Groaker (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 5:57am

I never bothered to look at the manuscript, but the general consensus among my colleagues (chemists,) was that it was more dangerous to the practitioner of "menus" in the book than any intended victims.
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Michael, 3 Apr 2015 @ 6:23am

Re:
I had a hard copy (probably in my attic somewhere, actually).

It is beyond any doubt that it can help you cook up some dangerous things that could be used to harm other people. That process is most certainly dangerous to oneself. However, it actually taught me some interesting things about chemistry, what household cleaners to avoid mixing, and some survival skills that will be useful when zombies come knocking (do they knock?).

The book contains knowledge. It is a very slippery slope when you start locking up knowledge because of what people may do with it.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 6:30am

Would you rather that federal authorities conduct investigations after the fact? What if this had transpired a couple of years ago and involved a couple of brothers in Boston interested in pressure cookers?
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Yet Another, 3 Apr 2015 @ 6:36am

Isn't The Anarchist Cookbook still under copyright? Didn't the UC infringe?
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Dr evil, 3 Apr 2015 @ 6:39am

What I want
Is for our gov't to focus on the real, not on the invented.
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Nyarlathotep, 3 Apr 2015 @ 6:39am

Next they will try to ban the Necronomicon...a religious text and weapon of mass destruction both in one package. The symbols and incantations also might still be subject to a 5 millennia old Babylonian or Assyrian copyright contract with numerous demonic presences that still is active.
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David, 3 Apr 2015 @ 6:50am

Re:
Only male dogs? Guess you really want to get the B out of office... :-)
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David, 3 Apr 2015 @ 6:54am

Ban what from the internet?
Since the defendant got them from FBI Agents, to protect against potential terrorists from getting these materials, it would be more effective to ban FBI Agents.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 7:12am

FBI remembers the Reichstag
"The building caught fire on 27 February 1933, under circumstances still not entirely known (see Reichstag fire). This gave a pretext for the Nazis to suspend most rights provided for by the 1919 Weimar Constitution in the Reichstag Fire Decree in an effort to weed out communists and increase state security throughout Germany."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 7:37am

Re:
Surely you jest? You seem to be implying that these people were initiating the plot themselves.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 7:40am

You go too far taking people's rights in ways that they don't realize.
Sitting atop your federal thrones from which you govern this:
Classified, Land of the Liars
Where only the truth seems to come under fire.

You're committing crimes in secrecy,
Then justify them by telling people:
"Because of National Security"
You're unnecessary Evil raping constitutionality.
Then sell the population your pre-approved realities.

All over the world remains the evidence of a Government
Hell-bent on controlling Everyone and Everything.
Protecting us from enemies that YOU created.
Using methods to ensure that list will grow to become endless.

Uncle Sam's future be damned!
Only money talks is the new Law of the Land.
Who's protecting us from you?
Wasn't that supposed to be you?
Tell us, what had you expected us to do when finally we knew?
Be proud of you?!
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Dave Xanatos, 3 Apr 2015 @ 7:41am

Re: Re:
do they knock?

From my extensive research on zombies and zombieism, I can state definitively that no, they do not knock.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 7:41am

Re:
But this kind of thing was happening a few years ago.

The problem is the FBI only seem to be able to find incompetent people who would never be able to do things on their own. Seriously, this person couldn't find a copy of a magazine in this day and age? A magazine I'm sure the writers want spread around as much as possible.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 7:42am

Re: Re: Re:
It just sounds like they're knocking. What they're really doing is trying to break down your door.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 8:04am

not a shocker
Diane Feinstein is not a supporter of liberty. If you voted for this person just know that your actions indicated that you hate your own country.
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Jack, 3 Apr 2015 @ 8:17am

Re:
The Anarchist Cookbook is hilariously bad at nearly everything it explains. There are a few things in there that are fairly dangerous and the book is mostly accurate in describing, but it is probably the worst place for a terrorist to look. Scratch that, terrorists please read the Anarchist Cookbook, I hear that the "tennis ball bomb" will bring down a building.*

Anyone with a highschool level understanding of chemistry and electronics will have a good laugh reading through the Anarchist Cookbook.

* This is sarcasm - it is literally a tennis ball filled with strike-anywhere matcheads... yes, the book is that bad.
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Spaceman Spiff (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 8:21am

Censor my brain?
I guess Feinstein will next attempt to censor my brain. After all, as an AP chemistry student (and later chemistry graduate student) I learned how to make such things as nitroglycerin, phosgene gas, and other "innocuous" materials...
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 8:28am

Re:
This rumor had hold even within the bookstore where I worked, where the copies had to be shelved behind the counter (basically a "steal this book" kind of book). The publisher should edit it and re-release to target today's zombie fans and preppers.
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Karl (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 8:39am

Chemistry book
Interestingly enough, the chemistry book that Velentzas was talking about ("Chemistry: The Central Science") is the exact book that I'm using for my Chem 115 course in college.

I guess all 100+ people in my class are "making history." Will Feinstein try to ban it, I wonder?
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Crimes Against the People, 3 Apr 2015 @ 9:11am

Re: Zombies
From my extensive research on zombies and zombieism, I can state definitively that no, they do not knock.

The bumping repeatedly into the door and scratching could be interpreted as a knocking sound?

This is absurd in every aspect. I had a copy back in the early 90s (thank you Newsgroups) and as many have stated it is at best a means to kill yourself.

Regardless, "removing" something from the internet is about as comical as one can get. America doesn't own the internet anyhow and as most likely the majority of the digital copies are on foreign servers & p2p... good luck with that!
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Rapnel (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 9:15am

Re:
erhm, how about we count the number of active federal terrorism sting operations that were taking place at the time of the Boston event and then sit and continue to wonder how previously flagged individuals did not merit active observations and investigations?

Oh, and an investigation is not really a sting, is it? where the latter is a much more comfortable and controllable situation for those involved.. i.e. a setup, thus making your seemingly fear based comment somewhat irrelevant and fuddy in my eyes.

*I* would rather see the feds slip anonymous tips to these "vulnerable" folks tipping them off to the fact that they're being "watched" thereby helping to filter the fuckers from the idiots - but I like daydreaming too. I always think we're too hell-bent on catching a perp than protecting people, potential perp or not, fabricated or not, but I'm aware the entire structure is formed around "the crime" so it is what it is. Besides, a life free from risk sounds a lot like death so fuck any natsec that successfully drives a stake through the middle of why we have a nation in the first place.

And Feinstein..? just. wow. - time's well past up for that resident rep I'd have to say
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 9:16am

Re: Another make work project
It's actually more like taking advantage of the mentally ill. It's pretty sad that our government has been reduced to a mentally ill bully. Almost as bad as picking on someone with a wheelchair. What, is picking on vulnerable people supposed to be good for their ego or something? Perhaps organizations that stand up for mentally ill people could stand up against this sorta government abuse.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 9:17am

Re: Re: Another make work project
Oh, and when I said mentally ill bully I meant a bully that picks on mentally ill people, not a bully that's mentally ill, though the latter kinda applies as well.
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ernie, 3 Apr 2015 @ 9:32am

Re: Yes, yes I do
I would be 100% ok with the government investing events after the fact instead of trying to prevent them if it means I get to keep my liberties. People are going to kill people, people are crazy and deranged, that is just the human condition. The government is to protect us but NOT at the cause of our freedoms. I would rather have my loved ones die from a terrorist than everyone live under a tyrannical governemt.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 9:46am

I propose a march on Washington D.C. armed with clue bats.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 9:49am

Re: Re: Yes, yes I do
The thing is, for all their hyperbole our government hasn't successfully stopped, prevented, or deterred a single terrorist attack - by REAL terrorists.

Although, they have perfected terrorizing citizens of the world. At this point, I doubt anybody with the most basic of comprehension skills actually believes the bullshit that US agencies are actually trying to stop terrorists, criminals, or "bad guys".

Besides, it's in their best interests to allow the bad guys to succeed so that they can turn around and claim more powers at the expense of liberties.

In the US your family is more likely to die at the hands of "Law Enforcement" than an ACTUAL terrorist plot.
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blah (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 10:08am

Re: Re: Re: Another make work project
And here I thought you were talking about Sen. Feinstein.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 10:09am

Another terrorist plot planned, funded, and executed by the FBI.
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Padpaw (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 10:13am

Creating terrorism to justify taking away people's rights to fight terrorism.

Sometimes I wonder how those founding fathers would have reacted if they had discovered the British government doing this to British citizens.

Americans might as well have stayed British if their descendants are ignoring pretty much the same excesses that caused them to revolt and create a new country in the first place
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Padpaw (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 10:18am

Re:
in what way? did he claim it was his own work, or try to profit from it.

How could it be infringing to share a book he/the agency owns with would be dupes.
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nasch (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 10:27am

Re:
What if this had transpired a couple of years ago and involved a couple of brothers in Boston interested in pressure cookers?

Doesn't that kind of invalidate your point? They are very successful at catching plots that never would have had a chance at going anywhere, but completely failed to detect one that succeeded. If their operations were regularly catching actual terrorists who would actually be blowing stuff up even if the FBI were not involved, that would be great. But that isn't happening.
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nasch (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 10:30am

Re: Re:
in what way? did he claim it was his own work, or try to profit from it.

Neither of those are necessary to commit copyright infringement. If he bought a copy and gave it someone, no problem. If the copyright holder allows anyone to download, copy, and distribute freely, no problem. If he downloaded a copy without authorization, that's infringement.
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DogBreath, 3 Apr 2015 @ 10:44am

Re:
I doubt that they will succeed in banning the Necronomicon, seeing as how it is so freely available, and how Congress isn't recognizing extended copyright terms for demons... just their minions in the MPAA and RIAA.

But if even if they don't ban it, I'm sure the FBI will still try to use it to set someone up, and it will go down just like this.
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anonymous me, 3 Apr 2015 @ 10:50am

"In other words, in neither case did the would be terrorists get the "bad" material from the internet. In both cases it came from the undercover FBI agent."

Maybe what Feinstein should consider banning is undercover FBI agents?
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Flippy Dippy, 3 Apr 2015 @ 11:05am

Re:
Maybe if the FBI wasn't busy making terrorists they could have paid more attention to the warnings that Russia's FSB had forwarded onto them about the older Tsarnev brother.
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gabe, 3 Apr 2015 @ 11:53am

what are the chances?
What are the chances that the Tsarnev brothers were working with the FBI at some point and something happened and the plot was not stopped and now the FBI doesn't want us to know the details because it makes them look like idiots?
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Ronald L. Vaught, 3 Apr 2015 @ 12:19pm

Making booms is that protecting society its everyones freedom to live in peace.
The anarchrist cook book is not helpful to the nation its violating everyones liberty to live in a peaceful safe enviroment.
Unless the Justice systems is unrepairable, cloaked excutive privledge and top secrecy available for abuseing citizens like NSA scandles and CIA scandles thats why anarchrists and others want that book and why NRA what their right to defend a corupt government. Frankly Id choose the peaceful route, but I AM tempted at times due to the slowness of justice in America, their have been millions who were murdered;Women, alterntive religious beleif systems other than christian, Native Americans, African Americans, and those Blanc who supported them.
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Ronald L. Vaught, 3 Apr 2015 @ 12:29pm

The most powerful are knowing self.
Its not money, even old money families have had their troubles over time I AM speaking generations. It takes a real value of your own life to see that in others. This facilatates a strong disposition to want to preserve and transform life to its fullest poteintial. Boom making is not a real long term solution in this day and age. The technology prevents it. Seeing from space, wireless survaliance. Come on lets be real the boom makers are seen. Best to organize, rally and never give up, study law, make alliances.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 12:35pm

Well we don't have any terrorists to go after, even though we have the NSA, and our own questionable surveillance techniques, so let us make some up. Seems we also need to censor some of our members of congress. Why they keep getting re-elected I'll never know. Guess we need to get the U.N in to monitor our election process. Good luck Amerika, you are going to need it.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 12:54pm

I wouldn't rely on the Anarchist's Cookbook's recipes.
There are enough errors and unmentioned precautions that plenty of anarchists have killed themselves in the process of making explosives.

The fact that it still suggests you can get high on bananadine should be a clue as to its validity.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 1:08pm

In the meantime the Nth country experiment proved we can't contain secret knowledge.
The notion is that in the 60s there's enough declassified or leaked data as to the processes of making fissile material and designing a bomb that we can't expect to stop given nations who want to become nuclear powers from doing so.

Hence we created the nuclear proliferation policies that we have today (e.g. you own a nuke and your ambitions of expansionism cease.)

Also, as in the case of North Korea, we mock them when their first nuclear tests indicate a shoddy effort.

But they can't stop people from finding out how to make bombs or other weapons by trying to censor the internet, or even the libraries. If we want to develop the instruments of terror or sabotage or revolution, we will.

This is why our representatives need to really try to prevent or resolve legitimate grievances among the constituency. A grievance is the inextinguishable fuel that supplies every successful revolution and proof against counter-insurrection.

Kaboom.
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nasch (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 1:24pm

Re: what are the chances?
What are the chances that the Tsarnev brothers were working with the FBI at some point and something happened and the plot was not stopped and now the FBI doesn't want us to know the details because it makes them look like idiots?

I would think the younger brother would have brought that up in his trial if that were the case. He has nothing to lose.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 1:48pm

Re:
Would you rather that federal authorities conduct investigations after the fact?

What happened here was not so much an investigation as an instigation. Would the person they are charging have gone any further than talking terrorism if the FBI had not stepped in and created the plot?

Also, it is the nature of law enforcement that they investigate after the fact, unless you want though crime to be an offense.
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Rekrul, 3 Apr 2015 @ 1:51pm

The FBI/DOJ has extensively investigated the Anarchist's Cookbook in particular over the years, and as far back as 1997 directly told Senator Feinstein that she could not ban it.

That was 18 years ago. I'm sure their attitude would be different today because: Terrorism!
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 1:59pm

Re: Re: what are the chances?
"I would think the younger brother would have brought that up in his trial if that were the case."

Only if the judge allowed it. There have been many things that judges have prohibited from being disclosed in court.

In this case, even if that were the case there is a good chance that the FBI could get the judge to ban any mention of it on the grounds that it could "expose sensitive law enforcement techniques". That's the problem with a legal system that allows secrets: you never know how much of the truth comes out of it.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 2:03pm

Dianne Feinstein...
is a threat to America.
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Andrew "K`Tetch" Norton (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 2:56pm

It seems like there's one common thread behind all these terrorist plots to attack the US, and that's the involvement of FBI agents or their associates as [usually 'the'] major parts of the plot.

Surely the only sensible thing then is to classify the FBI as a terrorist organisation?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 3:18pm

Re:
Apparently it does not matter whether Feinstein's opponent wants to censor the internet. Could be the opponent wants to do many horrible things, most politicians do.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 3:23pm

Re: not a shocker
"just know that your actions indicated that you hate your own country."

One finds this statement in many locations these days, I'm not quite sure what to make if it. Is it a cry for help? Is it an indication of sociological instability? Most likely it is just hyperbole repeated so many times that it seems the thing to say.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 4:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Another make work project
A mentally ill bully that picks on the mentally ill
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Anon, 3 Apr 2015 @ 4:26pm

Streisand again!
As soon as I heard about this, I did a search and found, and downloaded, the most similar thing I could find, "Anarchy Cookbook 2000.pdf", for free. Thanks for the tip, senator!
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fnordfnordfnord (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 5:12pm

Re:
Back in the 90's it was probably the FBI who was offering to send the thing from the classifieds in Soldier of Fortune magazine and other similar outlets.
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Karl (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 9:03pm

Re: Re:
The Anarchist Cookbook is hilariously bad at nearly everything it explains.

A long time ago, when the controversy about the book was still new, someone published an article detailing many of the things that were wrong in it.

The author of that article actually thought that the book was so bad, it might have been written by an "agent provocateur" so that potential bomb-makers would blow themselves up. (Obviously, the author was no stranger to conspiracy theories.)
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narly, 3 Apr 2015 @ 10:15pm

much ado about nothing
Never seen this book, but I did see it referred to as "dangerously inaccurate." If it's going to be out there somebody should at least correct the information and make it safer.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Apr 2015 @ 10:21pm

Seems to me that it might be the book that inspires terrorism, the Quran, that needs banning.
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Padpaw (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 11:43pm

Re: Re:
more ironic considering the FBI were warned by whatever Russian intelligence group about these 2 brothers and chose to ignore the info
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Padpaw (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 11:47pm

Re: Re: Re: Yes, yes I do
reminds me of the story of US soldiers being used to protect the opium trade in Afghanistan. they drove the Taliban out and the US took over. They didn't shut it down they just changed management.
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Padpaw (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 11:52pm

Re: what are the chances?
same odds as there being a bomb drill that same day about an hour prior the marathon.

Or the craft mercenaries all carrying backpacks similar to the ones claimed to be used in the bombing. The before and after photos are interesting. Before the mercs have the backpacks and afterwards they don't. Along with bomb sniffing dogs, police snipers on nearby roofs, and a controlled bomb set off at the local library by the police bomb squad.
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Padpaw (profile), 3 Apr 2015 @ 11:57pm

Re:
so following that strain of logic we should ban the catholic bible because of the IRA being terrorists that took inspiration from their faith.

Why not ban all forms of religion while we are at it as I am certain we can link any terrorist group to some form of organized religion. or maybe you could think about how using stereotypes makes you look like a lesser person.
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Privatefrazer, 4 Apr 2015 @ 12:44am

You say don't want a revolution??
I thought the U.S. was built on a revolution?
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Apr 2015 @ 1:22am

Re: You say don't want a revolution??
No, we don't deserve a second chance. We've allowed things to get this fucked might as well lay in the beds we've made and ride out the inevitable collapse from our own weight.

Hopefully, we can be the lesson to future empires - that we chose to ignore from our predecessors.

In the South there's a tradition of partying on the beach in the face of an inescapable hurricane.. Might as well make however many years we have left one helluva hurricane party.

Was a good run, we had some great moments, just a shame we lacked the pebto bismol to rid ourselves of the explosive diarrhoea that exists in the USG.
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nasch (profile), 4 Apr 2015 @ 3:52am

Re:
Seems to me that it might be the book that inspires terrorism, the Quran, that needs banning.

Yeah, that will help.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Apr 2015 @ 5:38am

Re: I wouldn't rely on the Anarchist's Cookbook's recipes.
That made me smile so much, me and a friend actually tried the other thing, smoking peanut scales, we didn't even have rolling paper, so we used school line paper. Of course it didn't work.

Although that cough syrup thing did...
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Apr 2015 @ 5:40am

Re: Re:
Bluebox worked!
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anonymous, 4 Apr 2015 @ 5:41am

Re: Censorship
I am against censorship of any kind. That being said, I believe that we should filter Terrorist sites from outside our boarders on the Internet. If the sites locate within out boarders, their owners should be prosecuted for Treason and jailed for the rest of their life.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Apr 2015 @ 5:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sounds like Mike Erhmantraut's little-daughter's piggie toy.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Apr 2015 @ 5:45am

Re: Re:
Craft Corp. are probably more than able at making those things.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Apr 2015 @ 5:49am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes, yes I do
That's all Canadian soldiers did in Kandahar. Protect opium farmers from the anti-opium Talibans.

I gotta say I like the opium farmers in Afghans better, they're a lot more realistic about how to make money in that sort of terrain.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Apr 2015 @ 5:53am

Re:
Cool, Sounds like an early Sick Of It All song.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Apr 2015 @ 5:58am

Re: Re: what are the chances?
Fire and explosion at JFK Library.

Carlyle Group buys JFK Library a couple months later.

Nothing suspicious at all.
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Ken, 4 Apr 2015 @ 6:10am

FBI and Feinsten work together to violate the Constitution
There you go again, that damned First Amendment. Looks like we are going to have do something about that.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Apr 2015 @ 7:28am

Why not just close all the schools and ban reading? That would make it even harder (lol) to learn how to build a bomb.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Apr 2015 @ 7:34am

Re: Re: Censorship
The problem with your second sentence is that it negates your first sentence.
Further governments define as terrorists anybody who wants to change the political system, or actions carried out or proposed by the politicians. It leads to life imprisonment for opposing ACTA/SOPA etc.
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nasch (profile), 4 Apr 2015 @ 9:17am

Re: Re: Censorship
What is it about censorship in particular that makes people think they're against it when they're actually in favor of it? I don't recall hearing people say such things about other questions. Except maybe privacy.

I'm totally in favor of gun rights, but we should confiscate and destroy all the handguns.

I'm against all abortion restrictions. But women should not be allowed to have abortions in the third trimester.
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pod, 4 Apr 2015 @ 10:00am

Laws laws and more laws
...is Feinstein's mantra. She can't cope with the real world so her solution is to legislate it out of existence. Dianne, here's some real talk. People have guns. People have access to unrestricted information on the internet. Try restricting both, people will figure out a way around it, and they have. Give it up already. Just relax and enjoy your twilight years.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Apr 2015 @ 11:34am

Re: Re:
Seems to me that it might be the book that inspires terrorism, the Quran, that needs banning.

Yeah, that will help.

Yeah, we can have big, public Quran book burning parties! That'll teach 'em!
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Apr 2015 @ 11:37am

Re: FBI and Feinsten work together to violate the Constitution
There you go again, that damned First Amendment. Looks like we are going to have do something about that.

What with all the "constitution nuts" running around nowadays, we just need to get rid of it!
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Apr 2015 @ 11:40am

Re: Re: Re: Censorship
I'm totally in favor of gun rights, but we should confiscate and destroy all the handguns.

And knives. Don't forget to ban "shanks".
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nasch (profile), 4 Apr 2015 @ 11:47am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Censorship
And knives. Don't forget to ban "shanks".

Especially the ones with solar shields. (will anybody get that?)
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RP, 4 Apr 2015 @ 2:12pm

Dianne Feinstein
Is a dumb c*nt :)
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Rekrul, 4 Apr 2015 @ 5:57pm

Re: Re:
so following that strain of logic we should ban the catholic bible because of the IRA being terrorists that took inspiration from their faith.

Why not ban all forms of religion while we are at it as I am certain we can link any terrorist group to some form of organized religion. or maybe you could think about how using stereotypes makes you look like a lesser person.

You've got my vote. Religion has been responsible for more misery and death in the world than practically any other cause.
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Rekrul, 4 Apr 2015 @ 6:00pm

Re: Re: Re:
Yeah, we can have big, public Quran book burning parties! That'll teach 'em!

At the very least it would expose the hypocrisy of calling Islam the "religion of peace" in the face of world-wide riots by Muslims.
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nasch (profile), 4 Apr 2015 @ 6:41pm

Re: Re: Re:
You've got my vote.

You're in favor of laws that dictate what people are and are not allowed to believe?
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Apr 2015 @ 1:31am

Hah! I remember the Anarchists Cookbook.

I heard about it as a teenager. Learned lockpicking from it. Which helped... because I was the sort of person that ALWAYS lost my keys. Plus, it gave me some neat ideas for short stories! Reading about tone phone hacking and some of the more amazing-rediculous things gave me ideas for fiction. I also remember thinking 'Wow.. these explosives recipies look kinda... uhm... volatile. Like, lose your hand making it volatile. No thanks.'

.... I should get that thing again actually...
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Apr 2015 @ 10:38am

Re:
The FBI had all the same tools a couple years ago and they didn't stop the Boston marathon bomber. That is because these tools aren't for stopping terrorists. They're for domestic spying and, apparently, PR for ineffective anti-terror operations.
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Qyiet, 6 Apr 2015 @ 7:27pm

Re: I wouldn't rely on the Anarchist's Cookbook's recipes.
I wouldn't rely on the Anarchist's Cookbook's recipes
I second that. I got hold of what was supposed to be a copy as a teenager, and compared what it said about making nitroglycerine to what my chemistry textbooks said. There were a couple of VERY important points missing that would probably get an amateur bomb maker covered in a mixture of strong acids and broken glass. That alone convinced me to never trust anything it said. I did find it a fun read though.
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John Fenderson (profile), 7 Apr 2015 @ 8:43am

Re: Re: I wouldn't rely on the Anarchist's Cookbook's recipes.
Which brings up another excellent point: all of the information in the Anarchist's Cookbook is available from standard, actually reliable sources. Such as chemistry texts. True, they aren't in a form that allows you to just follow a recipe and get a result -- but in terms of safety, that's a good thing.
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Observer, 11 Apr 2015 @ 9:11am

Re: Boston Brothers were being watched by 'govt' agents
..so what's your point ! The internet evidence already had shown that they did none of the mayhem shown as death and destruction on the crisis actors' segment, and were not validly 'convicted' this week.. the watching only served to set them up.....
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Concerned Citizen, 14 Apr 2015 @ 10:01am

Getting rid of US Terrorism is Easy!
Just ridding ourselves of the FBI will decrease the number of attempted Terrorist Attacks in the U.S. by several orders of magnitude.
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Gary, 17 Jun 2015 @ 3:43pm

Re: Re: tools
Amen!
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qu1nn (profile), 16 Mar 2018 @ 5:12pm

Re: Re: I wouldn't rely on the Anarchist's Cookbook's recipes.
if it was hydrocodone or promethazine (or even Nyquil which at least at one point was something like 20 proof) i imagine the cough syrup thing *did* work.

(another one to skip: supposedly you can get high off smoking the *spice* variety of mace. based on my personal experience, that's a lie.)
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qu1nn (profile), 16 Mar 2018 @ 5:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Another make work project
As a mentally ill person who's on Medicare and SSDI, I can assure you that yes, the government picks on mentally ill people.

Cases in point that I've been through personally:
1) LPC's (my current talk therapist is one) cannot be Medicare providers,but MSW's can be. The educational requirements for both degrees are similar enough that I have no idea why.

2) Because the compensation for Medicare patients is not great and the paperwork's a pain, a LOT of psychiatrists/neurologists/etc. won't accept Medicare, and that frequently leaves patients having to make multiple calls to find one who will if their prior provider quits taking it/moves/retires. I got lucky with my current (two "state's best doctors" list certificates, deserves them) but he was a straight-up cold call and I'm already dreading his retirement.
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