Three PATRIOT Act Provisions Likely To Sunset, Briefly, But USA Freedom Will Pass Shortly
from the what-happens-next-is-what-matters dept
On Friday, we posted a story looking at the divergent views of two of my favorite privacy experts: Jennifer Granick favoring just letting the three PATRIOT Act clauses to sunset... and Julian Sanchez arguing that just letting those provisions sunset would unfortunately leave aside many of the important reforms in the USA Freedom Act. But, as we noted, both of them seemed to agree that either such result, without further reforms, wouldn't be enough.Well, now it appears that both things will happen. After some debate, a late vote this evening, the Senate voted 77 to 17 to move forward on the USA Freedom Act -- but a vote will not occur until Monday at the earliest. That means, in a few hours, those three provisions of the PATRIOT Act will expire (and, no, this does not mean -- as some have falsely stated that the PATRIOT Act itself is dead). And then, a few days later, the USA Freedom Act will be passed (even Rand Paul admitted this is what's going to happen, even as he sought to block USA Freedom). Paul and some others are going to try to add some important amendments to the bill, but they're unlikely to pass.
In other words, both of the arguments that Granick and Sanchez made seem to have happened. Section 215 will "sunset" briefly -- hence a symbolic win. And USA Freedom Act, which has some useful reforms, will pass. And... then we'll still have a long way to go to get even more important surveillance reform. The events of this evening are an important step forward. Until just recently, the very idea that we might limit the Section 215 program for real seemed unlikely. And yet, now that's happening -- with both a brief sunset and the reforms in the USA Freedom Act.
But it's not enough. There is still plenty of excessive surveillance happening -- under other provisions, including Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act and Executive Order 12333. Those need to be dealt with if we're to have real surveillance reform. The end result is that this is a an important victory for surveillance reform -- which never would have happened without Ed Snowden's actions -- but it's just a step. And a lot more is needed. And it's needed now.
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Filed Under: bulk collection, business records, executive order 12333, mass surveillance, nsa, patriot act, rand paul, section 215, section 702, sunset, surveillance
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The Snowden myth again.
http://cryptome.org/2013/11/snowden-tally.htm
It's not Greenwald's or any journalist's duty to vet documents that the US public owns, and again, how does he know which are safe to let out?
Second, doubts about Snowden remain. Here's a good recent outline:
http://cryptome.org/2015/05/rethinking-snowden.htm
Just show me where the daily surveillance of citizens is actually reduced. Or promise that on Monday Patriot Act 2, "This time it's personal", won't be passed.
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sloppy seconds or nothing
We were promised a 'Space telescope' since Sputnik went up.
NSA and the AirForce stole the first two space telescopes and commandeered the third for half the observing time, looking down your blouse.
LATimes reported that the Hubble coincidently shipped in Lockheed's BigBird crate, thus no photographs were allowed.
Perk&Elmer 'accidentally' re-figured the primary mirror for terrestrial observation; the janitor with a penlight and a razorblade would have caught any such 'mistake'.
The AirForce refused to launch Hubble or Galileo with 'their' Titan rockets, thus Galileo was over 8 years old when it was useful, and the DOD's 'Space Shuttle' got a civilian cover story.
Old Man George Bush locked up the photo library and shut off LandStat after Newsweek published photos of the burning Amazon.
When walking through JPL i was told that NO interplanetary robot was ALLOWED to use a multi-element detector array until the late 1980's!
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Re: sloppy seconds or nothing
Galileo was a case of not having a heavy enough lift rocket to put it in the proper orbit. The shuttle was (and remains) the heaviest lift system that we had until its retirement.
Scientific probes did not have a 'multi-element detector' because of technical reasons. Somethign taht is launched on a probe must work the first time, every time for years in an extremely challenging environment. That is why probes are always 15-20 years behind the tech curve. (as a manner of perspective, the MSL [curiostiy] Rover has a power PC 603E processor, state of the art in 1995)
As for the Hubble, the spherical abberation was a screw-up, nothing more, nothing less. It is also well known that, for scientific purposes, NASA wanted to use a slightly larger mirror. They went with the smaller mirror currently fitted as a cost-savings measure (the anecdote that I heard was that the cost savings came due to common parts/production with the USAF birds). The mirror would have still had the abberation if looking at the planet and not into space. Moreover, Hubble time is some of the most valuable telescope time for any astronomer. People would notice if time useful for making astronomical observances were suddenly retasked to something taht was not talked about.
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sunset
But, we are.
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Re: sunset
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Re: Re: sunset
Sad that a lot of people refuse to accept this.
We have been playing the political game the same way for decades now, hoping for something different.
I believe someone said that this was the definition of insanity. As insane as it sounds voting for a turd like Rand Paul should be something you only need to do every once in a while to send a Critical and Required shock that is necessary from time to time. If you don't... just remember... you will not see it coming until its too late.
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Re: Re: Re: sunset
Single-issue voters on subjects like abortion have not gotten their desired result, but they've sure as hell succeeded in making abortion a hotly debated topic...for 40 years. I'm bored of that subject, but I would not mind talking about my civil rights for a while. Heck, even 40 years would be OK.
Any other candidate that aligns with Rand on privacy would also stand a good chance to get my vote.
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Re: sunset
He's kind of like Perot in that he brings up many good points, but has zero chance of being, an indeed should NOT be, elected president.
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Re: Re: sunset
There are only two reasons why someone would make such a ridiculous claim: 1) they don't know what a power vacuum is, how it works, or how ugly it gets for the people caught in one, or 2) they do know, and deliberately want to create one in the hopes of profiting from the ensuing chaos.
It's hard to say which is more dangerous.
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Re: Re: Re: sunset
Remember... there is more than 1 government you have to deal with.
Central (the one that should be small)
State
County
City
That is a lot of fucking government. You just like everyone else already knows (additionally proven by history time and again) that Centralized Monolithic institutions are always a fucking disaster yet you can't seem to figure this shit out.
The idea that the libertarian concept of a small government magically takes away TOO much power is just as fucking stupid as you are accusing them of being!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: sunset
You forgot one from your list: corporations.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: sunset
Look at any social institution in the world around you. Your family. The business you work at. The church you attend. The government. Clubs or social organizations you belong to. Look at their organization: they're all shaped like pyramids. It is the great pattern of human nature, and history has proven time and again that it's the only thing that works. (Most recently by giving us the example of the Occupy Wall Street movement. So much potential, but they consciously refused to organize, and so for all the resources they had at their disposal, they ended up accomplishing a whole lot of nothing.)
When you understand this, you see that the only way to have a small government is to have a small nation. You really want to go down that road?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: sunset
Central (the one that should be small)
State
County
City...
You forgot special districts. Take a look at your property tax bill next time. If your area is like mine there are more special districts than actual government entities.
And we might include HOAs in that too.
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Re:
All recent extensions to Section 215 have been voted down so far. They could still try another vote. Although I don't think it has much of a chance of passing.
As Mike notes in this post, they will most likely move forward with what I consider to be NSA's "Plan B" (i.e., The USA Freedom Act). Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't the plan all along.
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Anyway, this is just a first step in a never ending battle. It's something, but there's a long way to go - Don’t Worry, the Government Still Has Plenty of Surveillance Power If Section 215 Sunsets
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it might not be legal to re-authorize the act after it expired. Congress will, in effect, pass new legislation. That puts the USA Freedom act in murky waters, legally.
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Re:
So what? It has taken years and hundreds of billions of dollars to dismantle the U.S.A. and its principles in the manner the NSA did.
So this would just be handing sovereign control to the lesser (and significantly more affordable) evil. People try that every election with little success, so this might be worth a try. But 48 hours is a bit short.
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Re:
At one point of time, you need to make a choice. The founders of the Republic chose freedom, and that is spelled out in the Constitution. If you want a different choice, you don't belong in the U.S.A. Either you or the U.S.A. need to go.
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Not when their captors are abusive.
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Re:
When billionaires say that "citizens" are safer when the public no longer has all those pesky rights cluttering up their lives, the "citizens" they are referring to are themselves.
You see, in an Ownership Society, only the Owners are actually citizens. The rest of us are Denizens, and have no standing under the laws that protect Citizen Rights.
Don't forget, the Boys in Power gave themselves the legal right to "re-interpret" the Constitution after 9/11, so the meaning of any part of Constitution is very likely now the exact opposite of what you think it means.
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Why try
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Re:
People keep saying this and it's simply not true. Not only that, but it hurts the efforts at real reform that many are working on because it's a cynical response that suggests nothing can be done. It's wrong.
Yes, the NSA will push the boundaries, but it tends to push those boundaries by focusing on the legal authorities it has. Reform can and will work in limiting the NSA.
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Re: Re:
Normally I'm against massive bills that try to cover a million different things all at once, but in this case I kind of wish we could get a bit more in there.
Both of my Senators apparently voted to move ahead with USA FREEDOM, and I still can't decide whether I should get in touch and thank them or ask them to hold the line for a better law.
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I absolutely agree that you shouldn't trust anything that they say. And I agree that they will push and probe and reinterpret things to try to get what they want.
But... that's very different than the claim that some are making that they will flagrantly IGNORE the law and just do what they want.
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Well of course. They will definitely NOT just flagrantly ignore the law and do what they want. That would let the cat out of the bag.
If they cannot blackmail lawmakers into changing the law so that they CAN continue to do what they want, then they will simply; once again, secretly reinterpret the new laws and continue to do what they want, knowing full well that there are no consequences for pretending to misunderstand the letter of the law should they be caught and called onto the carpet once again.
Not a single hour of global surveillance will be lost through this legislation, regardless of what form it takes.
The Agency has already moved its 215 offices to the new building months ago and has been operating under the radar ever since. Knowing that section 215 was threatened, they have already set up a new and better and completely secret operation to carry on the work and escalate the process unfettered.
Remember; they are Hydra.
Remove one surveillance operation and two more will take its place.
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You're ahead of me, then. I've never had such faith (because of their history over my lifetime).
However, that doesn't mean that legislation is pointless at all. The point of passing such legislation isn't that they will magically start obeying the law. It's that if what they're doing is in violation of the law (and the information we currently have says it's not) then there is a chance of being able to hold them accountable.
Right now, there is no such chance.
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Re: Re:
And by making up new authorities that it was never given.
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The Fascists Handbook - Sleight of Hand
Those who direct the spy agencies of the USA will NEVER take a REAL step backwards in their eternal search for more ways to control "The Adversary"; the American people, through blackmail, coercion and character assassination, made possible through these surveillance programs.
Any apparent set backwards, is always just a PR move to cover their behind-the-scenes escalation of the powers of the surveillance state and its apparatus.
Remember this always.
The US Spy-guys adopted the motto of Hydra:
"Cut off one arm and two more take its place."
They adopted this motto for a very simple reason.
Its always been their modus operandi and for the same reasons as the comic book crime syndicate Hydra:
Control.
Profits.
Yachts, Bimbos and Cocaine.
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Hurry, Hurry! Short-term offer!
http://goo.gl/9sJP1s
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