Australia's New Law Would Strip Citizenship For Possessing A 'Thing' Connected With Terrorism, Or Whistleblowing

from the proportionate-response,-what's-that? dept

Mon, Jun 29th 2015 12:41pm — Glyn Moody

Things seem to be going from bad to worse in Australia. In April, it brought in mandatory data retention, and last week its own version of SOPA finally became law. Now the Australian government is working on another awful piece of legislation: a bill to revoke the citizenship of those holding dual nationality if they are "involved in terrorism." A column in The Sydney Morning Herald gives a few examples of what that dangerously elastic concept might mean in practice:

Citizenship would automatically be stripped from a person convicted of entering an area declared to be a no-go zone by the Australian government. This would occur even if the person has entered that area for innocent purposes, such as to do business, visit friends or undertake a religious pilgrimage. The same result would follow for a person convicted of damaging Commonwealth property or possessing a 'thing', such as a book or downloaded file from the Internet, that is in some way connected with terrorism.

Yes, download a file that is "in some way connected with terrorism," and your Australian citizenship will be taken away -- automatically. According to the article quoted above, this is because: [the Australian government] has responded to concerns that its proposal might be struck down by the High Court. Instead of allowing a minister to strip a person of their citizenship, the bill states that this would occur automatically. This is consistent with the current law.
An article in The Guardian points out that the bill covers whistleblowers too: The proposed law would also capture a range of offences for disclosing matters relating to national security under section 91.1 of the [Australian] Criminal Code.

The section is titled "offence relating to espionage and similar activities", but includes several offences for intentionally disclosing matters pertaining to national security.
The author of the article in The Sydney Morning Herald, George Williams, is a professor of law at the University of South Wales. As he says: The government has again overplayed its hand. Its proposal goes well beyond a modest, sensible extension to the existing law so as to remove citizenship from a person who has committed a terrorist act or fought for an organisation like IS. Instead, its bill could cause people to be exiled from the Australian community where their connection to terrorism is minor, or even non-existent.
The same disregard for proportionality can be seen in the data retention and copyright laws brought in recently. Sadly, it seems likely that the proposed citizenship-stripping bill will soon join them in Australia's Hall of Legislative Shame.

Follow me @glynmoody on Twitter or identi.ca, and +glynmoody on Google+

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: australia, citizenship, free speech, terrorism

77 Comments

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread

Ninja (profile), 29 Jun 2015 @ 11:11am

Wait, thought crime is seen in the distance, coming in long strides. Orwell would be signing as a prophet of modern times.

How long till the Australians can vote the lunatics in the Government out?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 12:55pm

There are super weird ways to gain a citizenship in many places in this world. I wouldn't be surprised if they need to close a loophole.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 12:56pm

s't it strange how almost every government of 'the civilised world' is bringing in the same laws, that do damage to people who actually try to STOP something serious from happening, even if that something is by the government itself. do you think they might be collaborating with each other?
what is so funny is that they are all doing the same thing as far as copyright is concerned, as far as whistle blowing is concerned and as far as exposing the government is concerned. if this doesn't make people sit up and take notice of a global conspiracy against the ordinary people, in favour of a few global corporations and over-rich individuals, i dont know what is!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 12:59pm

Thank God for Mississippi
There is a saying in Alabama, "Thank God for Mississippi." Without Mississippi, Alabama would be the worst state in many categories.

Now, citizens of the US can say, "Thank God for Australia." No matter how much of a police state we become, we can always look to Australia and say, "There but for the grace of God..."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it

Tempest In A Thimble, 29 Jun 2015 @ 1:11pm

Had minion read the Brisbane comments: no one has ever been prosecuted under the prior law.
And even less likely under this: would have to be dual national, a terrorist, and caught at it. Nothing but as also noted, a ploy by politicians for Labor voters.

Here at Techdirt, the more narrow and more anomalistic a news item, the more likely to be re-written (as Masnick wrote) with "its typical approach to these things: take something totally out of context, put some hysterical and inaccurate phrasing around it, dump an attention-grabbing headline on it and send it off to the press."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 1:33pm

Re:
Sure, this loophole is called 'rule of law'.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That One Guy (profile), 29 Jun 2015 @ 1:36pm

Re: Had minion read the Brisbane comments: no one has ever been prosecuted under the prior law.
So if no-one's been persecuted under the previous law, then why are they introducing this one? Either they clearly intend for it to be used, or they're proposing a law that they believe will never be used, and either case deserves to be called out as a bad idea.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 1:40pm

Re: Thank God for Mississippi
Australia probably started all of the 'terrorism' hysteria too. USA is just an innocent global military empire that is not leading the world into a new dark age.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
B3Z5R, 29 Jun 2015 @ 1:45pm

Re: Had minion read the Brisbane comments: no one has ever been prosecuted under the prior law.
If by 'terrorist' you mean 'anybody' then yes. There is no judicial involvement. It is just a politicians judgement.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Fenderson (profile), 29 Jun 2015 @ 1:48pm

Re: Had minion read the Brisbane comments: no one has ever been prosecuted under the prior law.
Oh, the law is merely a ploy and will never get used, huh? How many times are people expected to fall for that "it won't really be enforced" trick?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That One Guy (profile), 29 Jun 2015 @ 1:50pm

Barely concealed intentions
The proposed law would also capture a range of offences for disclosing matters relating to national security under section 91.1 of the [Australian] Criminal Code.

The section is titled "offence relating to espionage and similar activities", but includes several offences for intentionally disclosing matters pertaining to national security.

There is no 'would also', the whistleblowing section is pretty much the main reason for the law, with the 'terrorism' bits just tacked on as the smokescreen. This is an attempt to stop whistleblowers from exposing government actions, it has nothing to do with 'stopping terrorism'.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 2:01pm

Of course a US/Australian dual national can enter a "no go" country using an American (as long as the American government does not have its own travel ban) and their activities will be NOT SUBJECT to Australian law.

What you do on an American passport is only subject to U.S. laws. As long as you do not travel anywhere (e.g Cuba) that is banned by the American government, you will be OK, since U.S. passports are ONLY subject to U.S. laws.

Since a sizeable chunk of Australia's population also has U.S. citizenship, someone could use a U.S. passport to travel to such places, as long as they not violating AMERICAN law, and be NOT SUBJECT to prosecution under Australian laws.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 2:01pm

Tyrants
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonmylous, 29 Jun 2015 @ 2:08pm

Welcome to Australia! Shut up or get out.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 2:14pm

Wow Australia. Sounds like you're going to have a lonely country soon with that legislation. You've been hanging out with the US and Canada apparently.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 2:14pm

Re: Re: Thank God for Mississippi
US is definitely headed into a new dark age. The question is about leadership and it really looks like Australia has taken the baton and is running with it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 2:21pm

This sounds like a catch all to give the government blanket powers against people they don't like. Stripping citizenship automatically means that they can avoid alot of laws that prevent action against citizens. Spy agency can't target local citizens? They aren't citizens anymore. Australian citizens granted certain legal rights and freedoms? They aren't citizens anymore.

Imagine if the NSA was able to say, in response to all their scandals, 'Its okay. The moment they become persons of interest, they aren't americans, so the laws don't apply!'

Well.. stop imagining, and look over at Australia.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 2:28pm

So if someone were to email some sort of terrorism-related "thing" to everyone in the Australian legislature, that would automatically get rid of the problem, right?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
David, 29 Jun 2015 @ 2:34pm

Well, one thing is certain.
There will be no more pressure cookers "made in Australia" as they are linked with terrorism and people will get their citizenship revoked for possessing one.

How is this not covering weapon factories, by the way?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That One Guy (profile), 29 Jun 2015 @ 2:37pm

Re:
Hah, nice idea, but no, the government doesn't have to follow the law you know, because they are the law.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Kronomex, 29 Jun 2015 @ 2:57pm

Well, John Carpenter and Howard Hawks would be in trouble in that case. They both had things that caused terror.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
radarmonkey (profile), 29 Jun 2015 @ 3:36pm

Will this require trigger warnings to Australians on all TechDirt articles containing ANY information about terrorism (such as this very article)? We don't want them to automatically lose their citizenship simply for becoming educated about their government's stupidity.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 3:55pm

Re:
Wrong on so many counts. The whole idea behind this is that as soon as you (as a dual Australian/American citizen) enter Syria and join up with any of the various militias or whatever, you become just an American citizen - the Australian part is revoked, permanently. It doesn't matter what passport you travel or enter on - you would lose your Australian citizenship as soon as the authorities are made aware.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 4:20pm

Re:
Australian visitors could just use a VPN to read techdirt articles.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 4:29pm

Re: Re:
You natually could not join up with a militia, since that would break U.S. law. But if you wanted to travel to Syria, say, just as a tourist, that does not current break any U.S. law, and as long as you used your United States passport to enter and depart Syria, that makes you only subject to U.S. laws.

So the part about "even if the person has entered that area for innocent purposes, such as to do business, visit friends or undertake a religious pilgrimage" DOES NOT APPLY to those who use a United States passport.

It also would not apply to those did not LIVE in Australia. So a USA/Australia dual national living in the United States would ONLY be subject to AMERICAN laws, as long as they used the U.S. passports to travel to Syria, or any other "no go" country. As long as you did not break any U.S. laws, a USA/Australia dual national living in America would be not subject to this Australian law, as long as they do not break any U.S. laws.

And also the part about downloading certain files under this law also do not apply Australian citizens living outside of Australian. A USA/Australia dual national, living in the United States, is only subject to American laws, on what is downloaded from from the United States.

It is just like the U.S. ban on travel to Cuba. A USA/Australia dual national who lives in Australia and uses their Australian passport is not subject to the ban in Cuba travel as long as they use their Australian passports to enter and depart Cuba and they are living in Australia
[ link to this | view in thread ]
drjimmy (profile), 29 Jun 2015 @ 4:54pm

Let's face it people, the fascists won WW2. It just wasn't the German or Italian fascists.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Spaceman Spiff (profile), 29 Jun 2015 @ 5:26pm

Well, there goes my next Mad Max movie!
I guess I won't be doing business in Australia, nor visiting for vacation, tourism, etc. If the govt. of Australia wants to be a bunch of total asshats, then I can tell them where to get off!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anthony, 29 Jun 2015 @ 5:56pm

Re: Re: Re:
Doesn't matter which passport you travel under. Your citizenship will still be revoked if the travel is brought to the minister's attention. The Australian and US intelligence agencies regularly exchange this sort of information.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 6:08pm

Re: Re: Re:
Wrong. You enter Syria under Syrian law, regardless of which passport you are using.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 6:14pm

Re: Well, there goes my next Mad Max movie!
There is a way to use a VPN in Australia to avoid this law. If you are travelling to Australia, or any country that censors the net, you can set up a VPN that cannot be detected or defeated, if your home broadband allows servers.

You install SoftEther on your machine and set both the SSL VPN and the LT2P VPN. You will also need a router. Just install the software, and set up your login credentials.

What you do is first login to the SSL VPN on your server, and then log into the LT2P VPN on top of that. But there is the trick, you use the internal adress on your network where your server is. This will totally defeat all censorship, and also defeat all cracking and sniffing of SSL. This works on Taco Bell's network, I have tested this, so it will work anywhere the net is filtered, even in your workplace, and there will be no possible way for the boss to detect or block what you are doing.

I have had a customer on my small VPN wanting to get past Taco Bell's draconian filtering and snifing, and I found it. I can login to my SSL VPN, then straight back out again on my LT2P VPN on my server, but I use the internal address of 192.168.1.2, instead of the external IP address for the server, and I get right through, totally defeating their filterig, and sniffing system. In any business, you gotta keep the customers happy.

If this works at Taco Bell, it will work anywhere, even in countries like China, Iran, or Australia that censor the Net. There is no POSSIBLE way to stop this without blocking all port 443 connections.

So anyone travelling to Australia who might run afoul of this new law can set up a VPN on their home broadband connection, before they leave, and there is no possible way your activity can be cracked, sniffed, detected, or blocked.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 6:40pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Thats true, however, what I am saying is that if you use a US passport to travel to Syria, what you are doing is NOT SUBJECT to Australian law, even if you are also an Australian citizen.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 6:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
It doesn't work like that. US and Australian passports are linked very closely through 5eyes data matching. When you leave a country both the US and Australia are informed, and when you arrive, and any visas you apply for.
Anything you do wrong will also go to both countries.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 6:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
However, Australian/USA dual nationals who go to Cuba, who do not live in the United States, are not subject to the US ban on travel to Cuba. As long as you do not live in America and do not use a U.S. connecting city to get to Cuba, from Australia, the restrictions on Cuba travel do not apply to you as long as you use a Australia passport.

Laws like America's Cuba travel ban, or the proposed Australian terrorism legislation only apply if you LIVE in a country. If you do not LIVE in Australia, then this new law does NOT APPLY to you. American citizens travelling in the United States on U.S. passports are ONLY subject to American laws, while on U.S. territory, even if they are Australian citizens, as well.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HoleTurth, 29 Jun 2015 @ 7:00pm

What happens if the someone declares Australia as a no-go zone?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HoleTurth, 29 Jun 2015 @ 7:09pm

So, you browse a news report about a terrorist incident somewhere in the world with a picture of the terror group's leader. Your browser saves a copy of the page in its cache and history. Congratulations, you just downloaded something that is "in some way connected with terrorism".
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 7:18pm

Coming to every other "free world" nation in the next decade.

I wonder will my fellow Canadians and our southern neighbours the Americans fight back when this happens to us or just pretend it won't affect us.

Dissent can be applied here as well. If you speak badly about anyone in the government this could be applied to you. Don't say won't happen. This law right here was never supposed to happen and yet it is.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 7:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The US will know when one of it's citizens travels to Cuba.
When you check-in in Australia to fly to Cuba, that information is sent to the US under 5eyes information matching. The US has the info before you've got to the boarding lounge. If they don't want you to travel you can be stopped from boarding or flagged for questioning on arrival.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 7:20pm

Re: Barely concealed intentions
especially when exposing the criminal and sometimes pedophilia actions of cabinet members is considered classified under national security these days
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 7:22pm

Re:
could be applied to drone strikes as well on home soil. strip a person of their citizenship and suddenly your sending a missile at a foreign terrorist not a citizen
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 7:30pm

Re: Well, one thing is certain.
government exempts themselves and their crones from most of the laws they force on other people at the point of a gun. Tyranny in most other words
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 7:31pm

Re: Re: Well, one thing is certain.
cronies, sigh
[ link to this | view in thread ]
HoleTurth, 29 Jun 2015 @ 7:41pm

People aspiring for freedom, fighting for human rights or pledging for political reform have long been labeled terrorists in countries like Iran, Syria or China. The western democracy has not been put to test in the same way, though (with people opposing the foundations of their government en masse rather than asking for change).

With the ever increasing social injustice and the power new media gives to everyday man to voice their opinion, perhaps laws like the Canadian bill C-24 and this one are indicators of governments preparing to deal with dissidents.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 8:00pm

Re: Travel bans for Australian citizens
What you are not understanding about the legislation in question is the following:

The Australian governing party doesn't give a damn about which passport you use to travel where. Its only concern is if you have Australian citizenship and also have other citizenship. If, while you have Australian citizenship, you enter a banned location, and the government is informed of this, you will loose your Australian citizenship. As far as it is concerned, they are not making you stateless but are simply removing your privilege of having Australia citizenship.

Please not that they consider it a privilege to have Australian citizenship not a right.

I fully expect that even native born Australians (irrespective of whether you be blackfella or whitefella) will in future have their citizenship revoked under this or some other government.

At this point in time, there is no functional or meaningful difference between any of the major parties, Liberal/National, Labour or Greens. Supporters of any party can argue otherwise, but when all the facade is stripped away, all parties are ready to screw the citizens of this great nation. They may want to do it in different ways, but they mean to do it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 8:07pm

Re: Re:
Incorrect, the government doesn't have to follow the law because they are ABOVE the law - they make the law which everyone else has to follow.

Senator Brandis is the example of the Rule of Law - he makes the law and he is above the law. Laws only apply to the unimportant non-entities who are the citizens of Australia. Senator Brandis is not a citizen, he is a ruler of the citizens. It is his right to rule as Attorney-General and a member of Parliament and when he leaves Parliament, he will retain all rights and privileges that he had as a member of Parliament.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 10:34pm

Re: Re: Travel bans for Australian citizens
However, if you do not live in Australia, the government cannot enforce this. Just like Australia/USA dual nationals can avoid the US ban on travel to Cuba, the opposite is true for the other way around. A USA/Australia dual national can use their US passport, if living in the U.S., and simply avoid any Australian connecting city. If you do not land in Australia, they cannot prosecute you. As long as you are not breaking any U.S. laws, I highly doubt that U.S. government will extradite you do Australia, for prosecution, as long as you are not breaking U.S. laws, any more than Australian is going to extradite one of its citizens to the U.S. for violating any part of the U.S. embargo on Cuba.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 10:35pm

Re:
However, if you use a VPN,you can hide your what are doing.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 10:48pm

Re: Re: Re: Travel bans for Australian citizens
You don't understand how immigration data is shared, especially through intelligence partnerships like 5eyes (Aus, NZ, Can, UK,US).
The Passport holder fly's, not the passport. If you have two passports they are both flagged when you travel.

Also, Why Cuba? This is about dual citizen Australians and muslim terror. Not communism.
It's not really about Aus/us citizens as it is about aus/ iraqui, afghani etc.
It's about immigrants who have come in as dependant children and leaving to train in Afghanistan not being allowed to return
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Jun 2015 @ 11:43pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Travel bans for Australian citizens
it has nothing to do with terrorism or even people leaving to fight alongside the terrorists at it's core. That's just the excuse/justification they are using to remove the rights of their citizens.

You can bet your life it will not be used against terrorism but will instead be used against all types of people those in charge suddenly decide they don't like. be it because of how they think, act talk or live their lifestyle.

This is about controlling their population to the extent they lord over the serfs. The focus is enriching themselves at the expense of screwing over everyone else.

It is not like this has never happened before in recent history. We are bless to be living in such a literate age where we have the ability to document the past and learn from the mistakes that are made.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 12:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Travel bans for Australian citizens
It's only about terrorists. You literally have to be a dual national terrorist caught in an act of terrorism for the act to kick in.
Australia already has a law that is similar but simpler and it's been enacted 0 times.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), 30 Jun 2015 @ 12:23am

Re:
Hopefully fucking soon, though most likely not till next June ;(
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), 30 Jun 2015 @ 12:30am

Re: Had minion read the Brisbane comments: no one has ever been prosecuted under the prior law.
No one was ever prosecuted (and they mean convicted) since the courts have always dismissed the charges ( a whole heap of people have been charged with it though)

In fact the new legislation that the current Liberal party is going for is for NO judicial oversight, no Procedural fairness, and all based on what the Minister wants. Our constitution specifically forbids this sort of power being laced in the hands of any politician. We had a similar thing in 1957 when the then government tried to do same thing with communists. It then after the high court wiped the law went to a referendum, the referendum failed BIG TIME!

You like most of your comments have no fucking clue what you are talking about, and this is nothing to do with the labor party (who some in it are actually all for this change in legislation).

Next time before you comment out of the blue like, on something you have no clue on SHUT THE FUCK UP! Or you make yourself look more incompetent and moronic then we already know you are
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), 30 Jun 2015 @ 12:35am

Re:
All three of your paragraphs are so wrong that the wrongness is incredible.

In fact what you've just said in ALL THREE of your paragraphs is one of the most insanely idiotic and wrong things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent responses were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought or even correct. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), 30 Jun 2015 @ 12:40am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Travel bans for Australian citizens
No... you need to be a dual national with the ALLEGATION of 'terrorist related offenses' placed against you and the Minister can then on their whim remove your Australian Citizenship.

The proposed legislation requires No conviction, nor judicial oversight. It will INSTANTLY meet with a High Court Challenge and the law will be repealed. The Govt knows this, Ministers within the Govt have already leaked there horror about the proposals (Mostly ones who have been practicing solicitors).

As for the current law. YES it has been enacted a fair few times, just no convictions using it since the courts here do NOT kowtow to govt bullshit propaganda or wishes.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 1:45am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
There are no direct flights from Australia to Cuba. What I am saying is that a US/Australia dual national could fly to Argentina, and then board flight to Cuba from Argentina.

What I am talking about is flying to Argentina, and then flying to Havana, Cuba from there. Since the flight from Australia is to Argentina, you can avoid US travel restrictions on Cuba, since you are not using a US connecting city.

There is no way that the Americans will known your final destination is Cuba, since you are going to Argentina, first, and changing planes there.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 2:15am

Re: Re: Re: Travel bans for Australian citizens
This is not about prosecution but about removal of citizenship. Your other passport will be flagged and you may thereafter assume that you will not be able to enter Australia on any condition.

If you are kept out of the country permanently, that will be fine as far as they are concerned. They do not then have to provide any support to you as would be the case if you returned and were imprisoned.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 2:21am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
They'll know an American passport holder has flown out of Australia going to Cuba on an Australian passport. Your American passport will have an alert flagged on it and you'd want to be wearing clean undies next time you go through US customs.
When you go through immigration, if a passport check is done, then it registers that you hold more than one passport.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 3:25am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Not if they go to Argentina. Only if Argentina chose to share that information with either the US or Australia would one know. The only record that Australia would have is that you board a flight for Buenos Aires.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 3:33am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Australia knows you're going to Buenos Aires, and connecting to Havana. The US knows this at exactly the same time, Australia shares it with the US.

I don't know what treaties exist between Argentina and the US, it's possible they get told twice, it's possible your trip stops there.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
J.C., 30 Jun 2015 @ 9:12am

When Truth Is Treason
Stripped of citizenship sounds like a benefit - not punishment - in a police state run by criminal psychos. Having a pencil could be a crime... Just think of what one could write.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 9:15am

Re:
No, for two reasons. Firstly, you can't hold any other citizenship while being an Australian MP or Senator, and secondly there is a provision which allows the Minister to override the forfeiture of citizenship (entirely on his discretion), supposedly after someone pointed out that Australians fighting with the Kurds against ISIS were covered by the last Foreign Fighters Act.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
1stworlder (profile), 30 Jun 2015 @ 12:27pm

Re: Thank God for Mississippi
Actually Australia is turning back the boat loads of moslems that want to go to the former desert island prison colony because it has better welfare benefits than the 47 closer moslem nations that are at peace.

What people should really freak out about is in our hemisphere the Dominican Republic is deporting all Haitians that don't have blood ties to the DR after 1920. That's black on lower IQ black discrimination. Despite being on the same Island land mass the DR has an average IQ 15points higher than Haiti.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
1stworlder (profile), 30 Jun 2015 @ 12:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
LOL so all the moslems using arms HilLIARy supplied them to fight the govt. of Syria are entering under Syrian Law. You are just sad that they are not quislings like Canada which dropped 2 million of their currency to supply feelsgoods to returning beheaders.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
1stworlder (profile), 30 Jun 2015 @ 12:35pm

Re:
No Canada dropped over 2 million of its currency to provide feelsgood cultural councilors for returning beheaders. Funny Australia was a desert island penal colony yet moslems are passing by 47 closer moslem nations at peace that they could fit into, only for the welfare/dole hand outs.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 5:43pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Not if you fly on Cubana, since the reservation records would be on their servers, which are at a colocation center in Toronto, Canada.

The IP address for Cubana's website traces back to a colocation center in Toronto. Since Cubana's servers are in Canada, they are not subject to any U.S. laws, including the travel restrictions on Cuba.

Cubana cannot be forced, by the U.S. government, to hand over its passenger lists, since their servers are on Canadian soil, making them only subject to Canadian laws or Australian ones.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 8:27pm

Re: Re: Thank God for Mississippi
Well the Australian government thought they were important enough to invade countries half a world away to 'help' them out from WMD & the Taliban/(insert current bad people) so it is only fair that the inhabitants of those countries would think that Australians actually cared about their plight when the Aussies/foreign forces leave and their country descends once more into chaos.

Of course that isn't the case, the Australian government couldn't give a rat's arse about some downtrodden people in a far off land who went out of their way to help the invading forces for years, then have their families & themselves threatened with death all because they sided with the invaders.

However if they were white, English speaking Christians the red carpet would have been rolled out with non-stop flights direct to Australia all at the taxpayers expense until all the 'good' people had been saved from those 'bad' brown, foreign speaking Muslims.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 8:33pm

Re: Barely concealed intentions
Even doctors going public on child abuse & sexual abuse in detention centres are at risk of 2 years in jail. Nauru comes to mind straight away.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 8:39pm

Re: Re:
The current PM, Englishman Tony Abbott thinks otherwise & certainly entered Parliament as a foreign citizen, possibly even became PM as a foreign citizen. Nobody knows as it is a State secret.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 8:44pm

Re:
The whole of Australia is a migration no-go zone. The previous Federal right wing government excised the mainland to stop any refugees claiming any rights if they made it to the mainland. Before it was just the offshore islands, but then the refugees bypassed those & went for the big island instead. This is not racist in any way, just the the right wing nut jobs, they'll tell ya.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 8:47pm

Re:
Even worse you click on the link to the organisation's twitter feed & presto, goodbye citizenship.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 30 Jun 2015 @ 8:49pm

Re: When Truth Is Treason
Our raving loony PM thinks that the sword of Islam will kill all of us & has to take away all our freedoms to defend ourselves from losing our freedoms.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Kronomex, 1 Jul 2015 @ 12:40am

Re: Re: Barely concealed intentions
I'll be very surprised if our bunch of corporate puppets and fascists charge the doctors and other health staff for what can only be described as treason. When it comes down to it they're a bunch of political cowards.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 1 Jul 2015 @ 1:08am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I can't believe you're still going. You still don't get it.
You can fly whatever airline you want - but only after you've passed through customs.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
GEMont, 1 Jul 2015 @ 1:20am

Bimbos hate doing wrinkly old dudes...
Hey now, time's a wasting' and the Fascist Billionaires are NOT getting any younger, (Bimbos hate doing wrinkly old dudes, and cocaine is just as likely to give them a heart attack), so its high time for the Five Eyes member nations to, one by one, start to implement the Order of Draco, and begin peeling away the facade of Democracy and Justice to expose the Neo-Swastika: ($$)

Canada, Australia, Britain, USA, New Zealand.

What do they all have in common lately - new laws that eliminate both justice and democracy for the little guy and make billionaires richer.

Wutta Coincidence!

---
[ link to this | view in thread ]
GEMont, 1 Jul 2015 @ 1:27am

Re: Re: When Truth Is Treason
(... thinks that the sword of Islam will kill all of us...)

And as long as you folks keep on believing that he is a loony and that he actually thinks that Islam crap is real, then his work is done and his pay is earned.

Never attribute to stupidity or incompetence, the things that are done by those who earn their position and income through deception and guile.

---
[ link to this | view in thread ]
GEMont, 1 Jul 2015 @ 1:35am

Re: Barely concealed intentions
.... 91.1

.... 9 1 1

Terrorists and Whistleblowers!

That is rich.

Gotta love these cabalists and their numerical magicks eh.

---
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Michael R, 8 Jul 2015 @ 2:45pm

Re: Thank God for Mississippi
We say the same thing in Arkansas!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Aktaruzzaman (profile), 19 Nov 2021 @ 11:03am

Do you know, how to be a citizen of US?
To be a citizen of USA, You must know how to pass citizens tests exam, There is three part of exam.
1. Your reading skills
2. Your writing skills
3. General knowledge about the USA
I Found this knowledge from https://citizenstests.com/blogs and that is very helpful for me.

I know this is the of topic but for better knowledge everyone need to know this i think.
[ link to this | view in thread ]