White House So Desperate To Get TPP Approved, It Agrees To Whitewash Mass Graves & Human Trafficking In Malaysia

from the disgusting dept

Mon, Jul 13th 2015 11:44am — Mike Masnick

At the end of last month, Trade Promotion Authority (TPA), better known as "fast track" for various trade agreements, was approved after a series of back and forth procedural moves by Congress. This means that Congress no longer has the (Constitutionally-provided) power to have a say in the trade deals the administration is creating, other than a single up-or-down vote when everything is set in stone. There was, however, one tiny poison pill that Senator Bob Menendez supposedly hid in the TPA concerning the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement. And that was that it could not be used if the trade agreement included countries that were listed as a "tier 3 nation" by the State Department when it comes to human rights violations. Malaysia, one of the countries that is a part of the TPP, has been designated a "tier 3 nation" by the State Department for a while now, due to serious human trafficking problems.

Some trade deal supporters in Congress tried to quietly remove this provision, but failed. And that left a big Malaysia-shaped problem in front of the TPP. But, the Obama administration is nothing if not resourceful in trying to make sure the TPP gets approved and big corporations get their expanded power over national governments around the globe.

It just decided to upgrade Malaysia from a tier 3 country to a tier 2 country. Because it could. Not because of anything done by Malaysia to improve its record on human trafficking. But because it was politically necessary. The details are simply nauseating:

There is essentially zero evidence Malaysia has done anything to earn this reclassification. Just two months ago, police found 139 mass graves along the Malaysian border that contained migrant workers that had been trafficked or held for ransom.

Since the 2014 TIP report, Malaysia has actually convicted fewer smugglers. As recently as mid-April, the US ambassador to Malaysia publicly criticized the government there for not doing more to combat trafficking.

Also sketchy: the State Department's report was actually due out last month, but was mysteriously delayed until after the whole mess with fast track was concluded. It's almost like the State Department chose to wait until it saw whether or not this provision was included to determine what Malaysia's status would be.

And if you want further evidence that this late decision to magically upgrade Malaysia to tier 2 wasn't in the cards originally, how about this:

Menendez’s office said Friday that an interim report was delivered to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in March on Tier 2 countries only, and Malaysia was not included.

In short, the State Department does not really think that Malaysia has improved its terrible record on human trafficking. It did not think so in March when it released an interim report. And then it made the political decision to hold off on releasing its June report until the middle of July to see how the fast track path proceeded.

Finally, rather than take this tool and use it force Malaysia to actually improve things, it gave the country a total free pass, just for the sake of finalizing TPP. I don't care where you stand on the various other provisions of the TPP, but this sort of cynical move -- where real lives are at stake -- is horrifying. And it shows the "who gives a fuck, get it done" attitude of our government right now. This isn't a theoretical issue. This is one where it's clear that people right now are being harmed, and rather than do anything about it, the government has deliberately chosen to turn a blind eye to the problem just so it can get this questionable trade deal passed.

This, of course, also is likely to confirm the fears of many who were opposed to the TPP all along. The Obama administration and US Trade Rep Michael Froman keep insisting that the TPP has a number of features to help raise labor standards in various countries. Yet, if they're happily willing to not just look the other way over Malaysia's human trafficking, but to actively whitewash it, what does that say for the seriousness with which it will enforce any labor practice rules?

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Filed Under: bob menendez, fast track, human rights, human trafficking, malaysia, state department, tpp, trade agreeements, ustr

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Ninja (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 11:13am

Well, what can we say? You have that joke of 301 report that lists perfectly good countries as some sort of potential terrorists or something because they don't do what the MAFIAA says, you have the Patriot Act and other incredibly unconstitutional things that allow all sorts of surveillance because a bunch of psychopaths and a huge industry behind the security apparatus likes it, you see serious environmental violations because some huge oil conglomerates and other base industries pay enough for it, you have a completely broken health system and outrageously expensive medicine because some big pharma industries say so... What were we expecting from a Government that not only disregards entirely what is good for the citizenry but often holds total contempt towards said citizens?

This shouldn't be a surprise as much as a reason for going Baltimore/Ferguson/etc on your Government. Sadly, it is happening everywhere in different clothings.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 11:54am

What corporations want trump human life.
This is the message being sent, I think we should reply by asking them what they are going to do once we vote them out of office for betraying those who elected them to represent THEM not corporate interests.
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Coyne Tibbets (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 11:54am

Human fodder
In large part, TPP sacrifices humans (human rights, human health, humanity's future) as fodder for the profit-making corporate machine.

So this is hardly unexpected: it's just an add-on human cost of doing business.
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kallethen, 13 Jul 2015 @ 11:57am

Just because it's not surprising...
Just because it's not surprising, doesn't make it any less disgusting.
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Coyne Tibbets (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 11:59am

Re:
Sadly, no one is voting them out. It is a depressing reality that people vote as corporate money dictates. A corporate CEO could be standing on a voter in spiked shoes, spikes driven all the way through their gut, and the voter would still vote for the person promoted by the most ads.

Watch Trump: He just called immigrants racists and murderers, but he will win the Hispanic vote because his money can buy an ad screaming, "You won't have a job."
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 12:00pm

You mean you were not surprised by them overthrowing democratic governments and replacing them with military dictatorships that are more sympathetic to the US administration? Maybe your eyes are open to the fallacy myth the USA is one of the "good guys". There are no "good guys" especially countries that demand others do one thing or die then do that exact same thing.
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seedeevee (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 12:04pm

Reagan, I mean George Prescott Bush, uhh, I mean William Jefferson Clinton, uhh, I mean Lil' George Bush, uhh, I mean Barack Hussein Obama, uhh, I mean Hillary Rodham Clinton will always sell us (meaning good people) out to the highest bidder.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 12:27pm

Re:
Vote Sanders!
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Uriel-238 (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 12:30pm

So...what now?
I assume that the TPP's going to get signed and ratified and Malaysia will get its upgrade and the rest of us shlubs will lose a ton of rights and the corporations will make money.

Right?

There's nothing that can be done. Yes?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 12:31pm

You have the wrong party
There is no way the Dems are beholden to corporate 'Merica. They are the party of the people. Or are they? Let's examine that.

1. They bow down to Hollywood
2. They are pushing this particular trade bill
3. They claim to be for the little people and want to raise min-wage, yet they allow millions of illegals in to both take jobs from 'Mericans and to keep the labor rate low through the supply outstripping the demand.

But yea, they are for the little guy.
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randomjoe (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 12:31pm

Re:
Vote Colonel Sanders!

A fried chicken in every pot.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 12:33pm

Re: Re:
Delicious.

Seriously though, I do have hope for Colonel Sanders. How corporate can you be when you actively call yourself a socialist?

Whether he can get the nomination is another question, though.
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SolkeshNaranek (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 12:34pm

how to buy a president
Can there be any doubt what so ever that these grateful corporations which are going to make billions more as a result of TPP passing, will "repay" Obama after he leaves office by filling his pockets with a very high fee to appear at their functions as a speaker?

Perhaps now his desperation makes a little more "cents".
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 12:37pm

Re: Human fodder
Who knew the Amnesia video games provided such a wonderful allegory for corporate statehood?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 12:47pm

I wonder what goes through their heads...
Are they purely evil people who wants to rule the world and their goals are people as slaves who exists to serve them?
Are they just greedy people who wants more and sees the world as everyone for themselves?
Are they stupid people who thinks they are creating a utopia for everyone?
I just don't get it. I cannot think like they do and if that is the evolution of obtaining money and power, then I want neither.
To become like them is probably the scariest thing I can think of, because if I were a believer and would describe the soul, then I would describe it as what they have lost.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 12:48pm

And this is why Sanders continues to attract people from all political parties. Has Trump mentioned what he would do? I'm curious.
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That One Guy (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 12:57pm

Re: I wonder what goes through their heads...
Mostly number two. Most of them probably aren't out and out deliberately evil, intentionally doing as much harm as they can, they just don't care how much harm they do.

It's indifferent evil, rather than deliberate. They'll endorse slavery and mass murder not because they agree with those things, but because they don't care about either as long as they get theirs.
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That One Guy (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 1:05pm

Well... fuck.
It was supposed to be a joke you scum.

A while back when the 'poison pill' came up, I made a comment something along the lines of how I'd love to see the administration defend slavery if that's what it took for them to get this 'trade' deal through, and while I fully expected them to try and squeeze it through anyway, I never expected them to do it this blatantly.

But, here it is, the administration admitting that slavery, mass murder, none of it is as important as pushing the TPP through. The corporations writing it have decreed that it will be implemented, and their employees in the political houses are doing exactly what their bosses have ordered, and to hell with the public.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 1:10pm

Like a camel passing through the eye of a needle.
They can't see the long game. Better for your kids to be a dictator of a banana republic than your great grandkids to be middle managers in a star-spanning utopian empire.

Quoth Gaiman:
Lucifer: Still. "Better to reign in hell, than serve in heaven." Eh, little brother-killer?

Cain: Suh-certainly, Lord Lucifer. Whatever you say, Lord Lucifer.

Lucifer: We didn't say it. Milton said it. And he was blind.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 1:11pm

List as of 2014
Tier 3 countries are Algeria; Central African Republic; Cuba; Democratic Republic of Congo; Equatorial Guinea; Eritrea; Guinea-Bissau; Iran; Kuwait; Libya; Mauritania; North Korea; Papua New Guinea; Russia; Saudi Arabia; Syria; Uzbekistan; Yemen; and Zimbabwe.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 1:13pm

Re: You have the wrong party
There is no way the Dems are beholden to corporate 'Merica. They are the party of the people. Or are they? Let's examine that.

1. They bow down to Hollywood
2. They are pushing this particular trade bill
3. They claim to be for the little people and want to raise min-wage, yet they allow millions of illegals in to both take jobs from 'Mericans and to keep the labor rate low through the supply outstripping the demand.

But yea, they are for the little guy.

We didn't say anything about political parties as that's really neither here nor there. So not sure who this comment is directed at. But, for what it's worth, the majority of Dems in Congress do appear to be opposed to this bill. There are some for it and the administration is for it, but it's a bit bizarre to make this a partisan attack on Dems.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 1:30pm

Re: Re:
YOU ARE JUST A RACIST...

for not supporting Obama!

That is what they will be saying... sorry I got that wrong... that is what they ARE saying already.

My bad!
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Ambrellite, 13 Jul 2015 @ 1:38pm

Move along, nothing to see here
To be fair, the U.S. routinely turns a blind eye to human rights (or actively violates them) when our National Interests (TM) are at stake.

As Obama would say, look forward, not backward, nor to either side, and certainly not at what the TPP is going to do. Keep your blinders on and mind your own business, capiche?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 1:40pm

Re:
First Bush was George Herbert Walker Bush.

I'm not sure where "Prescott" came from, or if it was meant to be a joke that just sailed over my head.
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steell (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 1:54pm

Re: List as of 2014
Don't know where you got your list, but the following is from the State Department site.

Tier 3

Algeria
Central African Republic
Congo, Democratic Rep.Of
Cuba
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
The Gambia
Guinea-Bissau
Iran
Korea, North
Kuwait
Libya
Malaysia*
Mauritania
Papua New Guinea
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Thailand*
Uzbekistan
Venezuela*
Yemen
Zimbabwe

http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/2014/2266 49.htm
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 2:02pm

Re:
I think an issue is that once politicians are elected they are not obligated to do what they promised during elections. They can back track, flip flop, and do stuff that was never mentioned during elections which happens too often.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 2:21pm

Re: Re:
It is actually worse than that.

The 2 party system has them only saying sweet nothings in your ears to get you to elect them while 'The Party' gives them their marching orders. There are ONLY 2 things for a politician to do.

Keep the people that voted them in happy balanced with the marching orders their party hands them, welcome or not. And you will find far too many party liners where their party can just do no wrong.

I am not even sure 90% of Americans even remotely realize just how corrupt the system has become. There is not even a single branch of government now that even operates within 50% of their purpose.

Judges have gone rogue an refuse to tell juries what their actual responsibilities are. The executive Branch has flat out decided to not even enforce the law in breach of its own Oath. The legislature constantly kicks the budget down the road despite that being one of their big things.

To be honest those don't even come close to scratching the surface either. But we self-absorbed citizens just keep tromping along like we know what the fuck is going on while the vast majority of us are nothing more than sheeple feeding at the trough of Dem or Rep.
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Jack, 13 Jul 2015 @ 2:29pm

Re: Re:
George Prescott Bush is Jeb Bush's oldest son.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 2:43pm

And he STILL insists that a 19th century flag nobody outside the south took seriously until recently is the problem.
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tqk (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 2:51pm

Re:
Meanwhile, Mitch McConnell is hell bent on scuttling the Iran nuclear deal, and the administration is propping up an illegal gov't allied with Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, and fomenting WWIII with (somebody, anybody, hopefully *formerly* communist) Russia?!? Oh, and they prefer Israeli Zionists allied with Saudis over Iran, and they're accusing Assad to be in league with ISIS?!?

I can't decide if US politicos are just bought and paid for, or if they're insane (or simply idiots), or if they have an even more twisted tune they're singing along with which we don't know about yet.

I doubt it can get any weirder than this. I've never seen anything like this mish-mash in my lifetime before this.
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John Fenderson (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 2:57pm

Re: Re: Re:
I don't buy this for a minute. Whenever I've seen people who criticize Obama called "racist," it's been because they said or did something racist. I'm sure that there are times when that's not so, but they seem to be a relatively small number.

I don't support Obama, and I have never been called racist because of it. Probably because I can articulate rational reasons for my position that have nothing to do with race.
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That One Guy (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 3:03pm

Re:
Of course, keep the people busy and distracted by trifles, and you can get away with far worse when they're not looking.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 3:07pm

"On humanitarian grounds"
Where have I heard that one before...
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 3:17pm

In some ways TPP is good, because the US has only tipped barely into civil war.
At the moment its a cold war with no shooting, but once TPP starts to get its claws into people (enforced seizure of property, money, guns etc without trial) a LOT of ppl are going to....whats the best phrase for this? oh yes...Lose their fucking minds and go batshit insane.
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Kronomex, 13 Jul 2015 @ 3:39pm

Try the new TPP diet; guaranteed freedom and rights free.
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tqk (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 3:47pm

Re: Re: Human fodder
Who knew the Amnesia video games provided such a wonderful allegory for corporate statehood?

I'm not a gamer so I don't know about Amnesia, however I remember the original Rollerball movie, where the archivist was *shocked* that somehow they'd managed to lose the 13th Century and everything related to it.

Tyrants have been pulling this trick on us forever, and enough people fall for it every time for it to work every time.

Baaaaa, baaaaa, ...
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tqk (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 3:59pm

Re: Just because it's not surprising...
Just because it's not surprising, doesn't make it any less disgusting.

It's more disgusting because we're not surprised. When will we learn not to fall for it?!? The system needs to be rebooted. It's been pwned by mal-actors, and is clearly running out of control, as far as we're concerned.
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seedeevee (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 4:10pm

Re: Re:
My brainwashing was thorough. Thanks for snapping me out of it.

Prescott Bush was G.H.W. Bush's grandfather.

FYI : How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
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tqk (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 4:10pm

Re: So...what now?
I assume that the TPP's going to get signed and ratified and Malaysia will get its upgrade ...

You forgot the part where Malaysia gets to continue to ignore mass murder and human trafficking with USA's blessing. So much for being the engine of democracy, exporting freedom to the unwashed masses, all yearning to be free.

Watch out China/Russia/North Korea/Kazachstan/...! We're coming for you next!

Chyaa, right.
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seedeevee (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 4:15pm

Re: Re: Re:
And I got that one wrong , too. Prescott Bush is GHWBush's father, GW's grandfather.
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tqk (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 4:26pm

Re: Well... fuck.
... and to hell with the public.

And the victims. Innocent, non-combattant victims, just trying to eke out a living for themselves and their children on planet Earth, and this is the ass-holery they run into.

I'm ashamed this !@#$'s still allowed to go on. I'm incensed that the US gov't is allowing this because *campaign contributions*, and corrupted politicians want to continue in office, swearing they're doing it because *America*!

Sick, sick, sick.
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Mr Big Content, 13 Jul 2015 @ 5:18pm

Re: Well, what can we say?
THANK ALMIGHTY GOD FOR THE SECOND AMENDMENT!!! THE ONLY FREEDOM THAT TRULY MATTERS!!!!!!!!!
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tqk (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 5:22pm

Re:
In some ways TPP is good, because the US has only tipped barely into civil war.

I suspect if you polled "Dixie" states, they'd insist they never actually lost that war ("Waaaaaaah!"), and it's still going on, and it'll go on until they've won (or they're annihilated). Cf. Texas.

"Better to take off and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

I wonder when Earth will decide to invade the USA to smite the cancer that's been ravaging the planet for the past century. You'd think if Osama bin Laden was considered a significant threat to the US (pathetic!), even Canada should be able to pull it off (again) all by itself. Canada from the north, Mexico from the south, Europe from the east, AsiaPac from the west, and then we can all get back to living our lives in peace, sans USA as Global Cop.

Tempting.
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 5:53pm

Since a Constitutional Convention is out of the question, as no one has the stomach for it, there will be a Civil War here at home. No nation that signs on to this will retain its sovereignty.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 5:54pm

We self-absorbed citizens...
...are expected to work harder than ever before to sustain ourselves. Most don't have time for the news, let alone to absorb something as complicated as the TPP or why trade agreements bypass normal paths to legislation.

You're going to find the same sheeple in any other society built. And we'll have to find a way to make sure they get a fair shake despite themselves. Because any population can find themselves processing the undesirables into death camps. With glee, even, if it puts food on the table.

We build a civilization with the people we have, not the people we wish we had. You can't point at human beings with human nature and say they're responsible for this fine mess. That's the same as giving up.
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JoeCool (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 6:07pm

Re: "On humanitarian grounds"
That was a little slip of the tongue - he MEANT to say "on ground up humans".
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 7:43pm

Anyone else surprised that this is what antidirt, Whatever and out_of_the_blue will do just to see antipiracy being enforced?
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 9:01pm

Re: Re:
Why Prescott Pharmaceuticals of course.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 9:05pm

This IS the stuff Jefferson was talking about...
...re: tree of liberty, blood of patriots and tyrants, et. al.

The only reason we took the steps away from monarchy in the first place, such as the Magna Carta, the Social Contract, Napoleonic Law and the Bill of Rights is because we kept getting assholes in power who couldn't think past the short game.

And people who have power like having power, so any system is always going to inch back towards tyranny again. The US is a parody of democracy. A joke of a republic.

And from here forward, it's going to get suckier and suckier until people enough to collaborate towards a revolt are driven to do so by too much suck.

That's going mean a lot of people suffering and dying before we get ticked off enough.

In the meantime, expect the occasional crazies that pop off to go on a bombing or a rampage shooting to increase in frequency.
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seedeevee (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 9:05pm

Re: Re: You have the wrong party
I didn't make that comment but I feel pretty comfortable in saying that none of this (TPP/TPA) would pass without the COLLUSION of the leadership of the Democratic Party.

The head of the snake (BO) is where it begins.

But, you are right about techdirt not pointing too many accusing fingers. Doesn't really matter.
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seedeevee (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 9:08pm

Re: how to buy a president
Sadly, I will have to disagree with you. Obama knows he will never be short of cash.

The sad sad thing is that he is a true believer in this "free trade"/Reaganomics bullshit.
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seedeevee (profile), 13 Jul 2015 @ 9:11pm

Re:
Sorry. Most Americans are too lazy to start a New Civil War.
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Michael, 13 Jul 2015 @ 9:28pm

WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHY BOTH PARTIES DO WHAT THEY DO?
The Council of Foreign Relations is the reason for much of it, add to that big corporate industries that can use their money to 'vote', and you have the destruction of the middle class in America. Read this book if you really want to put an end to your misunderstanding:

The Shadows of Power

link: https://archive.org/stream/ShadowOfPowerTheCouncilOnForeignRelationsAndTheAmericanDecline#page/n0/mo de/2up

Thanks and wwake up peacefully
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Anonymous Coward, 13 Jul 2015 @ 10:02pm

aka "We turn a blind eye if you let our corporations do it in your butt".
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2015 @ 12:17am

Thailand, Myanmar, and Malaysia share this problem. We need to help with the military efforts of our allies while helping with their criminal law enforcement efforts simultaneously.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2015 @ 12:24am

Re:
It looks like asean is actually doing extensive investigations and cracking down. I would upgrade them based on the current efforts to try the perpetrators, crack down on the trade, and disrupt transnational terrorism networks simultaneously.
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Seegras (profile), 14 Jul 2015 @ 2:17am

Re:
Strange, I always thought his name was Obama Bush.
I can't distinguish them on their policies.
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Jake, 14 Jul 2015 @ 4:14am

Re: Re: Well, what can we say?
If you're serious, that's wishful thinking at best. The federal government has a monopoly on Predator drone strikes, tanks and capet-bombing, and I can assure you they'd use it if the militia fraternity ever stoped being a sad joke. It's harder to drum up righteous indignation about cops blowing away gun-toting rednecks than uppity n****rs.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2015 @ 5:16am

Re:
How do you propose to get past their hired muscle? The politicians are not worried. They feel safe. They wouldn't even be worried if a few of the bodies in that mass grave happened to be female US citizens.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2015 @ 5:26am

Re: Re: So...what now?
The PRC will chew through the US military as soon as they set foot on Asian soil. As it stands now, China is a regional power that could take on the entire military resources of ASEAN without breaking a sweat. And they are feeling pretty cocky right now because they know that Europe, Russia, the Middle East and India wouldn't support the US in a war with China.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2015 @ 5:30am

Re: Re: Re: You have the wrong party
TPP/TPA was inherited from the Bush administration. The trade caucus and the bureaucrats aren't interested in dropping this piece of legislation-they might conceivably be asked to give all that money they spent back to the trade lobbyists.
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David, 14 Jul 2015 @ 6:28am

Re: Re: Re:
America would be so much better off if Obama being one of the blackest presidents in U.S. history had anything to do with his race.
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David, 14 Jul 2015 @ 6:30am

Re: Re:
They had policies of their own?
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David, 14 Jul 2015 @ 6:33am

Re:
Trump stated that as a president he'd comb back his hair. Because he thinks the job would not leave him the time to keep his combover in proper order.

I wish I was being satirical here.
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David, 14 Jul 2015 @ 6:37am

Re: Re:
Starting the Civil War is already taken care of. All they need to decide is to defend themselves or perish.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2015 @ 8:09am

Re: Re: Re:
"My bad!"

Well, she got one thing right...
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2015 @ 9:16am

Congress should do their job
Rescind the fast track deal, and investigate the situation in Malaysia further. If (as seems unlikely) this was an accurate reassessment, fine. If not, find out who the hell thought of this and get rid of them.
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AJ, 14 Jul 2015 @ 10:07am

Re: Re: Re: Well, what can we say?
The whole "were outgunned by the government" is disingenuous at best. Look at the terrorist groups, look at your basic history. The threat of taking up arms is in and of itself a weapon. The ability to take up arms, and the will to take up arms, does and will give pause to any government. They have tanks and drones and such, true, but they are us.. we are the military, our son's and our daughters... and it doesn't hurt that we have 350 plus million people. Even with only small arms, we could EASILY overthrow the government in an organized uprising should we ever be required to do so. I honestly hope that never happens.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 14 Jul 2015 @ 10:48am

Carpet Bombing: One could only hope.
It would be an insurrectionist's dream.

Orders from the lobbyists to the representatives to carpet bomb American soil just might shake some sense into the desperation of the corporations to take all the power.

Orders from the representatives to the military certainly would be regarded as madness or a mole.

Frankly, I cannot imagine, what with the degree of jingoism and hyper-patriotism utilized for social cohesion how our military ranks could hold together were they turned on US civilians. It's a step that has historically failed in every revolution, and had been a problem during the Soviet Union when the Red Army was sent in to fix things.

And remember that at least for now, there's a human being pulling the trigger for every drone strike. We might see a few before too many drone pilots are unable to sleep at night.
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nasch (profile), 14 Jul 2015 @ 11:06am

Re: Re:
and they're accusing Assad to be in league with ISIS?!?

Did the Obama administration actually say that?
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nasch (profile), 14 Jul 2015 @ 11:25am

Re: Re: I wonder what goes through their heads...
It's indifferent evil, rather than deliberate. They'll endorse slavery and mass murder not because they agree with those things, but because they don't care about either as long as they get theirs.

Totally agree, and I'm wondering if that's even worse. The actively cartoonishly evil types tend to get found and shot or imprisoned or some such sooner or later. The profit-seeking institutionalized indifferent evil just goes on and on.
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nasch (profile), 14 Jul 2015 @ 11:34am

Re: This IS the stuff Jefferson was talking about...
And from here forward, it's going to get suckier and suckier until people enough to collaborate towards a revolt are driven to do so by too much suck.

That's going mean a lot of people suffering and dying before we get ticked off enough.

And as we see here, the people suffering and dying aren't the ones in the US who might be driven to revolt. Here, we still have plenty of food and clean water (even in California so far), power, air conditioning, TV, internet... we're too comfortable to revolt and they mean to keep it that way.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 14 Jul 2015 @ 12:00pm

To comfortable to revolt
They might mean to keep it that way, but they're not. I think it is the apathy thing. It's too difficult to sustain an adequate modal standard of living. Middle management are now living as teachers did in the eighties, with patched clothes second-hand furniture and two-hour commutes in cars with worn tires. Minimum wage jobs are no longer available to teenagers, but are taken by 30-year-olds trying to earn a living -- and working 60 hours a week to do so. Abuse in the workplace by superiors is rampant. People don't have the option to quit jobs when their own workplace is intolerable.

Police gunning down innocent civilians in the streets is the spark, but our elevating level of misery is going to be the festering fuel that turns it from cause to riot to cause to revolt.
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tqk (profile), 14 Jul 2015 @ 12:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Well, what can we say?
... we could EASILY overthrow the government in an organized uprising ...

That one word is your biggest obstacle. Good luck with that one.
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tqk (profile), 14 Jul 2015 @ 12:40pm

Re: Re: Re:
The US consulate in Damascus did.
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AJ, 14 Jul 2015 @ 12:47pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well, what can we say?
Not my biggest obstacle. I would hate to see some kind of uprising in this country... but if the Gov. or anyone else hits the right nerve in this nation, we take to the streets and lose our collective minds for some reason.. I think it would be easier than you think.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 14 Jul 2015 @ 12:54pm

The Azteks fell to an epidemic of human sacrifice.
Now mind you, my South American history comes from grade school so this may be the simplified version.

But yeah, hard times fell on the Aztek empire and they kept carving out human hearts until times got better.

Well, they didn't.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 14 Jul 2015 @ 1:06pm

The people taking to the streets...
Then you have a riot.

I think for a revolution to take over the national government we'd need for a nationwide riot, or organization. More likely, the rebels would take over the nation one state at a time.

Maybe, just maybe, after securing a state or two, the rebellion could negotiate terms for armistice, and maybe then the feds wouldn't just betray the rebels and Gitmo them once they dropped their arms.

No, if a revolution is going to rise from the rage and the rampages and the riots, it'll need a plan. It'll need targets. It'll need rules of engagement.

And it will need a goal. The specific changes we want to make to our state (e.g. No corporations. No lawyers. No cops. No copyrights or patents. -- I'm not necessarily saying these extremes are ideal, but some set of ideals, perhaps even a rewritten constitution).

I'd think Reddit would be all over that by now.
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Anonymous Coward, 14 Jul 2015 @ 1:19pm

Re: The people taking to the streets...
It would not be 1 unified rebel movement. It would be multiple rebel groups all with different ideals and thoughts on how the country should be run
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GEMont, 14 Jul 2015 @ 5:16pm

Fascism 101: How to pick your friends.
So a country - (that assassinates people all over the world using remote controlled bombs, spies on its own population and occasionally kidnaps and tortures its citizens and foreigners for fun) - decides to whitewash the record of another nation - (that traffics in slaves by promising the world's war and economy dispossessed, good-paying jobs) - to protect O'Bomber's Fast Track law - (so that Hollywood and some dinosaur corporations and their billionaire owners can impose greater control over the world's remaining wealth and prevent other nations from passing laws that prevent international profiteering and the ruination of their natural resources by international billionaires).

I don't get it. There's absolutely nothing surprising in any of that. Just fascist business as usual, exactly as expected.

Just because there is no honor among thieves, is no reason to think that two thieves cannot make a deal to screw over some third party for fun and profit.

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GEMont, 15 Jul 2015 @ 1:08am

Re: Re:
(Just conjecture folks. Don't get all antsy now.)

...except all the computerized equipment would be remotely turned off when each of the assault teams reached the half way here mark, and then all their munitions would self detonate.

I still get the giggles when I think about the invasion of Iraq and the way the US made all the Iraqi computer-run defense systems detect bogus bogeys and fill the sky with ak-ak, while the US war-machine came 2 by land.

Remember; All your Hard Drive are belong to US.
And; All your Motherboard Chip are belong to US.

The US no longer fears reprisal from foreigners because, the US owns the software controls to their military hardware.

That's why President Drones O'Bomber can assassinate anyone anywhere and never apologize to anyone, or break a sweat over retaliation.

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GEMont, 15 Jul 2015 @ 1:26am

Re: This IS the stuff Jefferson was talking about...
"...expect the occasional crazies that pop off to go on a bombing or a rampage shooting to increase in frequency."

Occasional Crazies?

Oh! You must mean the FBI and CIA trained internet nutters and brain injured wannabe super-villains that help maintain the War on Terror's "public terror" here at home, by going off on fake bombing or shooting rampages, but getting caught by their law enforcement handlers at the last possible moment for that perfect photo op.

Gotcha.

For a second there, I thought ye were talking about regular; but highly pissed off Americans, doing guerilla work against the Fed - but everyone knows that Americans won't budge from their TVs and beer, until the Thought Police finally come for them too.

Take away their cable now and you're talking a whole nuther story of course. There'd be blood in the streets fer sure then.

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GEMont, 15 Jul 2015 @ 1:39am

Re: Well... fuck.
"... corporations writing it have decreed that it will be implemented, and their employees in the political houses are doing exactly what their bosses have ordered..."

By George. I think he's got it!

Welcome to the other side sir.

Oddly enough, everything will now start to make perfect sense.

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GEMont, 15 Jul 2015 @ 1:48am

Re: Re: how to buy a president
There are no true believers in politics.

The job necessitates an attitude of 100% continuous opportunism coupled with a willingness to do anything necessary to get very wealthy, very fast.

The only thing a politician believes in, is the power of valuta and the value of power.

All else is merely a means to an end.

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GEMont, 15 Jul 2015 @ 1:58am

Re: So...what now?
"There's nothing that can be done. Yes?"

Not so.

This is America.

One can still slam one's head against a bridge abutment, living room wall, basement floor, or tree, without fear of reprisal by members of the Elite.

For that matter, one can do any of the myriad hundreds of thousands of things that will have absolutely zero effect upon the pre-ordained passing of this fascist legal scam.

Because, this is America!

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GEMont, 15 Jul 2015 @ 2:12am

Re: The Azteks fell to an epidemic of human sacrifice.
"But yeah, hard times fell on the Aztek empire and they kept carving out human hearts until times got better."

Actually, methinks that particular scam usually runs something like this:

Poverty and crime is caused by the nations Elite draining the wealth of the nation and partying hardy behind closed castle doors, but they blame it all on the poor people by claiming that the sexual proclivities and lack of proper morality by the poor are angering the gods.

In order that the Gods be appeased and allow prosperity to return to the nation, sacrifices of young virgin boys and girls - selected by the Elite from among the poor - must be made on a regular basis, right after they're secretly drugged into a lobotomized condition and gang raped by the Elite party-goers.

Just another of the symptoms of fascism - the cash death of civilization. :)

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Pragmatic, 15 Jul 2015 @ 2:32am

Re: Re: The people taking to the streets...
That's why I continually advocate against it. If you can't get behind ONE independent political candidate and give them enough votes to overcome Blue or Red, how in the world do you expect to have a successful revolution with a happy outcome?

What we'd actually get is a locked down police state instead of the Not-my-problem one we have now.
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Pragmatic, 15 Jul 2015 @ 2:35am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
We're annoyed with Obama because he's a corporatist puppet who just loves surveillance and hates people who tell us what his administration is up to.

Criticize that. Hell, the most liberal progressive can't argue back against me when I put it in those terms.
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Pragmatic, 15 Jul 2015 @ 5:46am

Re: We self-absorbed citizens...
That is so true! We're slaves to the market in the name of freedom, forever being told that if we worked more we'd get paid more. The people who say this conveniently forget that the cost of living keeps on going up while wages stay stagnant and the opportunities are being shipped overseas.

We need a freer, more fair market, not the system of walled gardens we have now. And it's reasonable to pay taxes into a social safety net; as a wise man here on TD once said, we don't get to choose what diseases or accidents we have.

None of those things are going to happen while we're all divided. We need to start working together more and avoid falling into the partisan culture wars trap. Only then can we move forward into the world we want to live in.

Next time someone blows a dog whistle, don't bark.

TPP, etc., have only got as far as they have because enough people are falling for the lie that they're about increasing trade and that all who oppose them are either racist wingnuts or unionized liberal socialists. Let's be encouraging these people to move away from black-and-white thinking and examine the facts on their actual merits.

We must push back against TPP because not doing so makes us part of the systems in which human trafficking and slavery are rife. If we are actively seeking to trade with people who do these things, we're a part of the problem. TPP is about naked corporate power in a world in which natural persons are reduced to untermench and "Arbeit macht frei." Yes, I Godwin'd the discussion but you all know I'm right.
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John Fenderson (profile), 15 Jul 2015 @ 2:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Precisely so.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 15 Jul 2015 @ 2:49pm

Us raging liberals would tell you that's not the guy we thought we were voting in.
It was 2008. How naive I was.

I just wanted someone who wasn't Bush. That's all.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Jul 2015 @ 4:40am

Re: Re: We self-absorbed citizens...
And it's reasonable to pay taxes into a social safety net

Uh, try collecting on that social safety net. Sorry to be the one to inform you, but you are walking a tight rope w/o a net. I know someone who was an honest, hard working, educated person who screwed up switching jobs and went into debt. Didn't have anything left except a well used car and was told they couldn't get assistance. Actually, they were advised to separate so his wife and kids could get assistance. Now this same office had lines set up for the illegal aliens to sign up for all sorts of programs. Yep, you guessed it, it was in CA.

If you have anything and hit hard times, there will be nobody there to help you hold on. Now if you have nothing, have always had nothing and probably always will, you can sign up for a dozen programs. Or if you cross the border illegally, you will be welcomed with open arms. But if you have something, anything you will get nothing.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Jul 2015 @ 4:45am

Re: Re: You have the wrong party
Sorry, was not implying you said anything about a particular party. Was just pointing out to the raging libs here, who seem to think the Repbubs are the evil ones, that the Dems are evil in exactly the same way, just they answer to different corporate overlords. Heck, the current admin apparently doesn't answer to anyone one anymore, not even the constitution.
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Randal Saylor, 17 Jan 2016 @ 6:17pm

Slavery in Malasia
I'm so dissappointed in the USA allowing slavery in Malasia this is so wrong.
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